What should I know about signing away my photos to a producer?
March 4, 2008 12:33 PM Subscribe
I'm an amateur photographer, and a television producer has sent me some email. He'd like to use some of my photos of my school for a TV show, in exchange for credit and a DVD of the show. What should I know?
My concerns aretwo three-fold:
My concerns are
- I'm a college student. I know people go to college students for cheap work. Am I being taken advantage of? Can I argue for some money?
- I like my photos. I don't mind if they use them, honestly, but I may want to make prints of them in the future. How does all the icky licensing stuff usually work? I'd like a nice, easy-to-read guide on this stuff.
- A couple photos have pictures of my friends, or pictures of a whole bunch of people that I don't know. Do I need to get their permission, in any way?
1) Yes! He makes money from his job, I'm sure. You spent money on your equipment. You actually have a responsibility to get money for your work, as if you don't this guy is going to be looking for freebies forever, and your damaging other photographers ability to make their livings.
2) You never ever ever sell the copyright to your pictures. You sell him a license to use the pictures for such and such a purpose. As in, I license this picture to John for 1 year to use in this purpose for this price. If he wants it longer, the price goes up. At least, that's the way the pros do it.
3) What is he using the pictures for? Probably, yeah, you would want to get a release. Video and photography have very different standards for model releases, so it's complicated to use photographs in a video.
A good place to start, if you are interested in how this really works is The Business of Photography Blog. If I wasn't on a totally crapped out computer, I'd goodle it for you. It's the guy whowrote the Best Business Practices in Photography book. He's kind of a hard-ass, but you can learn how people actually make their living from this stuff.
Good luck! This guy sounds a little like a creep.
posted by sully75 at 1:12 PM on March 4, 2008
2) You never ever ever sell the copyright to your pictures. You sell him a license to use the pictures for such and such a purpose. As in, I license this picture to John for 1 year to use in this purpose for this price. If he wants it longer, the price goes up. At least, that's the way the pros do it.
3) What is he using the pictures for? Probably, yeah, you would want to get a release. Video and photography have very different standards for model releases, so it's complicated to use photographs in a video.
A good place to start, if you are interested in how this really works is The Business of Photography Blog. If I wasn't on a totally crapped out computer, I'd goodle it for you. It's the guy whowrote the Best Business Practices in Photography book. He's kind of a hard-ass, but you can learn how people actually make their living from this stuff.
Good luck! This guy sounds a little like a creep.
posted by sully75 at 1:12 PM on March 4, 2008
PS I would suggest avoiding Creative Commons for this kind of thing. There have been some recent incidents of Creative Commons licences getting misused by major media, I believe (Fox TV?) Anyway, pro photographers avoid it like the plague. It's hard enough to keep your rights with old fashioned copyright laws.
posted by sully75 at 1:13 PM on March 4, 2008
posted by sully75 at 1:13 PM on March 4, 2008
2. As long as you don't give the producer an exclusive license, you can still license your work to anyone else after licensing it to the producer, or do whatever you were going to do with them anyway. (ekstasis23: A CC license wouldn't be appropriate here, as anon wants to get paid for the producer's work, even if the "payment" is just a copy of the DVD. I'm not sure that the CC website really has that much information on licensing outside the CC scheme.) On that topic, granting a non-exclusive license to the producer would not prevent you from also releasing the work under the CC license of your choice at some point in the future, for example.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 1:15 PM on March 4, 2008
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 1:15 PM on March 4, 2008
I doubt the guy is a creep...that's a little strong...but coming from a producers perspective...he probably doesn't have a big budget, saw a picture he could use and offered you some exposure and a dvd for your trouble. Most likely, if you ask for money the producer will turn you down unless it's a small number. He could pay for a stock photo from an established house if he had the money.
You just have to decide if you are willing to do the deal on his terms or not.
And technically, it's his responsibility to get the rights of the people in the photo. He'll either ask you to get contact info or he'll just blur them out.
Make sure you read the release form carefully.
posted by Mr. Ugh at 1:25 PM on March 4, 2008
You just have to decide if you are willing to do the deal on his terms or not.
And technically, it's his responsibility to get the rights of the people in the photo. He'll either ask you to get contact info or he'll just blur them out.
Make sure you read the release form carefully.
posted by Mr. Ugh at 1:25 PM on March 4, 2008
Check out some of the stock photo agencies' sites - search for a photo similar to yours, and price it out (you may have to register at the site to do this). The pricing form - well, the last time I used one, anyway - will ask you things like how big will it be (assuming print, 1/4 page, 1/2 page, etc.), will it appear on the cover, how long do you want to use it, and so on. Once you check all the boxes, it will tell you that the price will be $HOWMUCH??!!. Since you're not a pro, and since the producer won't pay you that much anyway, I'd advise knocking the price down from what Getty (or whatever stock agency you pick) says it's worth.
Just checking out the kinds of questions that stock agencies use for their stuff - especially rights-managed stuff - will help you talk to the producer and not get (too) ripped off.
posted by rtha at 1:35 PM on March 4, 2008
Just checking out the kinds of questions that stock agencies use for their stuff - especially rights-managed stuff - will help you talk to the producer and not get (too) ripped off.
posted by rtha at 1:35 PM on March 4, 2008
You need more information, and eventually you need it writing.
1. It's not so unusual for amateur photographers to supply photos for free. This producer may be working with a limited budget and is not necessarily a creep. However, if you want to be paid for your work, that is also reasonable and you should go ahead and set a rate. I work in television and pay between 100 and 200 dollars per photo to license from major stock photography sites. A rate higher than that might not go over so well.
2. You're going to need a license agreement. As others have said, the magic words are NON-EXCLUSIVE license agreement. The producer may already have a standard agreement that he or she can send you; make sure to read it through and feel free to request changes. This is a contract that you both sign, and it should include things like: what show or shows the photos will be used in, how many times in that show or shows they can be used, how long the contract lasts, how much you will be paid or not paid, what kind of credit you will receive. And it should, of course, state that you retain the copyright on your own work.
3. It's not a bad idea to cover your own behind when it comes to releases. You can probably find a standard photography release online.
It can be really thrilling to see your work on television. If you are excited by the idea, go for it. If it seems like a big hassle to you, you're under no obligation to give anyone your photos.
(on preview, seconding a lot of what Mr. Ugh said)
posted by Mender at 1:40 PM on March 4, 2008
1. It's not so unusual for amateur photographers to supply photos for free. This producer may be working with a limited budget and is not necessarily a creep. However, if you want to be paid for your work, that is also reasonable and you should go ahead and set a rate. I work in television and pay between 100 and 200 dollars per photo to license from major stock photography sites. A rate higher than that might not go over so well.
2. You're going to need a license agreement. As others have said, the magic words are NON-EXCLUSIVE license agreement. The producer may already have a standard agreement that he or she can send you; make sure to read it through and feel free to request changes. This is a contract that you both sign, and it should include things like: what show or shows the photos will be used in, how many times in that show or shows they can be used, how long the contract lasts, how much you will be paid or not paid, what kind of credit you will receive. And it should, of course, state that you retain the copyright on your own work.
3. It's not a bad idea to cover your own behind when it comes to releases. You can probably find a standard photography release online.
It can be really thrilling to see your work on television. If you are excited by the idea, go for it. If it seems like a big hassle to you, you're under no obligation to give anyone your photos.
(on preview, seconding a lot of what Mr. Ugh said)
posted by Mender at 1:40 PM on March 4, 2008
Sorry I shouldn't have said creep. He's probably not a creep. Friends have asked me for similar things.
I should say that I often times don't charge for pictures. I shoot a lot of my personal work at dances in the area and I'm friendly with a lot of the organizers. Both because they are my friend and because I wouldn't be able to do what I do without a good relationship. They have no money, and often times ask me for photos to use for promotions and I always hand them over.
So I didn't want to come across so strong. It's a very common thing now for amateur photographers to give their photos away just for the thrill of seeing them in print though, so I was trying to caution you against that.
It's totally up to you. I think you have to think about whether this guy is using your photos because they are unique...because if they are, then they have specific value. If he just needed some stock pictures, then maybe they don't have as much value. And is he making money on this? Is it a commercial project or a documentary kind of thing?
Not a creep and sorry about that.
posted by sully75 at 1:56 PM on March 4, 2008
I should say that I often times don't charge for pictures. I shoot a lot of my personal work at dances in the area and I'm friendly with a lot of the organizers. Both because they are my friend and because I wouldn't be able to do what I do without a good relationship. They have no money, and often times ask me for photos to use for promotions and I always hand them over.
So I didn't want to come across so strong. It's a very common thing now for amateur photographers to give their photos away just for the thrill of seeing them in print though, so I was trying to caution you against that.
It's totally up to you. I think you have to think about whether this guy is using your photos because they are unique...because if they are, then they have specific value. If he just needed some stock pictures, then maybe they don't have as much value. And is he making money on this? Is it a commercial project or a documentary kind of thing?
Not a creep and sorry about that.
posted by sully75 at 1:56 PM on March 4, 2008
Count me in the "don't screw yourself and other photographers/protect your rights" crowd. Your pictures are worth quite a bit, and the guy is definitely trying to get cheap photos by contacting a college student. When I was the photo editor at my school's newspaper, I got a lot of requests from publications/advertising people looking for cheap or free imagery, and I didn't always know what my work was worth and I now regret some of those sales.
Follow rtha's advice above and price out the usage on a few photos. At the Photoshelter Collection (disclaimer: I'm a contributor there) you don't need to be signed up to look at pricing and the backend of the pricing is generally fotoquote, which is an industry standard for pricing. I say generally because some contributors set their own prices and some pictures are royalty free. What you want is "rights-managed" pricing. To find out your particular pricing, search at photoshelter.com for anything and click on one of the results. Make sure it says "rights managed pricing" over on the right of the popup. Select region and country of intended usage. Then category is "electronic," subcategory is tv.whatever the intended usage is (I imagine it's editorial, but could be wrong here), and then pick the dimension, and geography of the usage. Do this for a couple of pictures to make sure you get a consensus on the numbers. Also do it at getty or alamy, though I think you need to register for both of those.
There's also a decent guide to freelance and stock fees in the UK at http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesguide/photo.html, though it's not as comprehensive as photoshelter's or getty's pricing mechanisms.
Most likely, if you ask for money the producer will turn you down unless it's a small number. He could pay for a stock photo from an established house if he had the money.
That's all fine and dandy, though probably not true. Check out these Top 10 Lies Told to Naive Freelancers and tv writer Harlan Ellison's rant against production companies wanting free material for a dvd. The reason they've contacted you is because they want to use your photos; if they want them bad enough, they'll pay a fair rate. The reason they specifically chose you is because they think you won't know what to charge or will be wowed by their appeals to your ego, i.e. "You'll get credited on tv!" Remember, the television company will be paying everyone else involved in the production and will be selling advertising (well, maybe not, if it's public broadcasting) around the content that you produced and supplied. You should be fairly compensated for your work. All the credit and merchandise in the world don't buy you a loaf of bread. While you might need the money and would be happy for the publicity, you're doing a disservice to the next college student this producer preys upon. If the producer doesn't want to pay, keep in mind that you are losing absolutely nothing and you'd be saving yourself from the headache of wondering whether you need releases or not.
posted by msbrauer at 4:11 PM on March 4, 2008
Follow rtha's advice above and price out the usage on a few photos. At the Photoshelter Collection (disclaimer: I'm a contributor there) you don't need to be signed up to look at pricing and the backend of the pricing is generally fotoquote, which is an industry standard for pricing. I say generally because some contributors set their own prices and some pictures are royalty free. What you want is "rights-managed" pricing. To find out your particular pricing, search at photoshelter.com for anything and click on one of the results. Make sure it says "rights managed pricing" over on the right of the popup. Select region and country of intended usage. Then category is "electronic," subcategory is tv.whatever the intended usage is (I imagine it's editorial, but could be wrong here), and then pick the dimension, and geography of the usage. Do this for a couple of pictures to make sure you get a consensus on the numbers. Also do it at getty or alamy, though I think you need to register for both of those.
There's also a decent guide to freelance and stock fees in the UK at http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesguide/photo.html, though it's not as comprehensive as photoshelter's or getty's pricing mechanisms.
Most likely, if you ask for money the producer will turn you down unless it's a small number. He could pay for a stock photo from an established house if he had the money.
That's all fine and dandy, though probably not true. Check out these Top 10 Lies Told to Naive Freelancers and tv writer Harlan Ellison's rant against production companies wanting free material for a dvd. The reason they've contacted you is because they want to use your photos; if they want them bad enough, they'll pay a fair rate. The reason they specifically chose you is because they think you won't know what to charge or will be wowed by their appeals to your ego, i.e. "You'll get credited on tv!" Remember, the television company will be paying everyone else involved in the production and will be selling advertising (well, maybe not, if it's public broadcasting) around the content that you produced and supplied. You should be fairly compensated for your work. All the credit and merchandise in the world don't buy you a loaf of bread. While you might need the money and would be happy for the publicity, you're doing a disservice to the next college student this producer preys upon. If the producer doesn't want to pay, keep in mind that you are losing absolutely nothing and you'd be saving yourself from the headache of wondering whether you need releases or not.
posted by msbrauer at 4:11 PM on March 4, 2008
Speaking as a television producer who has been on the other side many times, a few notes:
- Your pictures are worth whatever people are willing to pay for them -- which for most amateur photographers is zero. So don't pass up an opportunity to be paid.
- This guy did not find you because he is evil or cheap, or wants to take advantage of a naive college student or desperate freelancer. (He's a freelancer.) He probably found you on the internet.
- Do not do this all via email. Ask him to call you.
- Here's a suggested flowchart to follow:
1. You don't say who this guy works for. Is it for a show that will be actually aired on national (US) TV? Does he work for a name-brand, 3-letter network (MTV, etc) or a production company that sells shows to them?
1.a. If the answer to the above is "yes," then ask him if he as a budget for acquiring photos. He will be semi-honest with you, and will most likely tell you that he does, but it's not big. If you ask nicely to be paid, he may offer you a token amount for the pics ($50 to $75 each). You have the choice to take the money, or hold out for more. (And by more, I'm talking $150 to 200 each or so.) But the only way you will get more is if there is no other place to acquire these pics -- e.g., they're of Jamie Spears' last pelvic exam. Otherwise, he can buy them from a photo house for not much more, or simply choose not to use photos at all. (And if you start quoting Creative Commons or Corbis rates, he'll hang up on you, as you will officially become a pain in the ass.)
1.b. He will send you a release (ask for it anyway) that includes a non-exclusive clause. No legitimate contract from a big media company should ask for exclusive use, as there is no cost-effective way to enforce it. (Read it carefully anyway, and cross out anything you don't understand or feel comfortable about.)
2. If he's working for public TV, or some cable channel you've never heard of, he may not have a budget for photos. But he still has a budget. Ask him for 50 bucks each. Same caveat as above applies.
2.a. If he's in the low-budget world, there's no telling what kind of contract he will send, if any. Ask for one.
Fyi, I've never promised anyone a DVD of a show, since I am usually not around when the show airs. This sounds small-fishy to me.
As for the issue of your friends being in the pictures, the release that you sign will most likely state that YOU have gotten permission from them to be in your photos. If you think they may object to being on TV, or want to be paid for it, then don't sell the photos.
IANAL, and I am not you -- so take my (and everyone's) advice with a grain of salt.
posted by turducken at 10:02 PM on March 4, 2008
- Your pictures are worth whatever people are willing to pay for them -- which for most amateur photographers is zero. So don't pass up an opportunity to be paid.
- This guy did not find you because he is evil or cheap, or wants to take advantage of a naive college student or desperate freelancer. (He's a freelancer.) He probably found you on the internet.
- Do not do this all via email. Ask him to call you.
- Here's a suggested flowchart to follow:
1. You don't say who this guy works for. Is it for a show that will be actually aired on national (US) TV? Does he work for a name-brand, 3-letter network (MTV, etc) or a production company that sells shows to them?
1.a. If the answer to the above is "yes," then ask him if he as a budget for acquiring photos. He will be semi-honest with you, and will most likely tell you that he does, but it's not big. If you ask nicely to be paid, he may offer you a token amount for the pics ($50 to $75 each). You have the choice to take the money, or hold out for more. (And by more, I'm talking $150 to 200 each or so.) But the only way you will get more is if there is no other place to acquire these pics -- e.g., they're of Jamie Spears' last pelvic exam. Otherwise, he can buy them from a photo house for not much more, or simply choose not to use photos at all. (And if you start quoting Creative Commons or Corbis rates, he'll hang up on you, as you will officially become a pain in the ass.)
1.b. He will send you a release (ask for it anyway) that includes a non-exclusive clause. No legitimate contract from a big media company should ask for exclusive use, as there is no cost-effective way to enforce it. (Read it carefully anyway, and cross out anything you don't understand or feel comfortable about.)
2. If he's working for public TV, or some cable channel you've never heard of, he may not have a budget for photos. But he still has a budget. Ask him for 50 bucks each. Same caveat as above applies.
2.a. If he's in the low-budget world, there's no telling what kind of contract he will send, if any. Ask for one.
Fyi, I've never promised anyone a DVD of a show, since I am usually not around when the show airs. This sounds small-fishy to me.
As for the issue of your friends being in the pictures, the release that you sign will most likely state that YOU have gotten permission from them to be in your photos. If you think they may object to being on TV, or want to be paid for it, then don't sell the photos.
IANAL, and I am not you -- so take my (and everyone's) advice with a grain of salt.
posted by turducken at 10:02 PM on March 4, 2008
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posted by ekstasis23 at 1:04 PM on March 4, 2008