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February 15, 2008 12:06 PM Subscribe
My 14 yr old son seems to be developing into a reasonably talented musician...he seems to be able to make music come out of whatever instrument he picks up. He has been messing around with audacity...laying down tracks with multiple instruments using nothing more than a simple mic plugged into a laptop.
My musical abilities are negative but I am reasonably technically competent. I would like to custom build a hardware/software solution that would only be used for his music and will really allow him to stretch and experiment. I have built a number of computers and I can make the hardware and software work. I just dont know what pieces I need.
If you wanted to assemble the perfect music machine...both the box and the software, what would it look like?
I guess I would prefer to keep it to something less than a couple thousand dollars but if a little more would make a meaningful difference, I would like to know that too.
He has an electric guitar and a couple of amps and we have a nice electric piano that can digitally record music.
If you wanted to assemble the perfect music machine...both the box and the software, what would it look like?
I guess I would prefer to keep it to something less than a couple thousand dollars but if a little more would make a meaningful difference, I would like to know that too.
He has an electric guitar and a couple of amps and we have a nice electric piano that can digitally record music.
I'd say get him a Macbook with GarageBand and lots of RAM, and maybe a couple of external hard drives to hold the source tracks and mp3s he'll generate. Some decent studio monitors can be had for not a whole lot—no link handy, but $200 will get you a decent set from Sony. All told, I think you could build a really nice Mac-centered music production system for $1850 or so.
When I picked up the guitar at his age—then piano, and bass, and drums—I would have killed for all the stuff GarageBand does on a shoestring. Back then I was overdubbing on two tape recorders facing each other, with a mic I built from Radio Shack parts.
posted by littlerobothead at 12:16 PM on February 15, 2008
When I picked up the guitar at his age—then piano, and bass, and drums—I would have killed for all the stuff GarageBand does on a shoestring. Back then I was overdubbing on two tape recorders facing each other, with a mic I built from Radio Shack parts.
posted by littlerobothead at 12:16 PM on February 15, 2008
Both Audacity and Garageband are more than enough for the home recorder, and the next step up are products like ProTools or Cubase, which are more expensive and advanced. A great resource are the forums at Tapeop.com.
This thread might be just the ticket.
posted by Paid In Full at 12:30 PM on February 15, 2008
This thread might be just the ticket.
posted by Paid In Full at 12:30 PM on February 15, 2008
Just to echo everyone else: a Macbook or Mac Mini with Garageband, firewire audio input device, and decent speakers would be perfect to start with.
posted by sjl7678 at 12:31 PM on February 15, 2008
posted by sjl7678 at 12:31 PM on February 15, 2008
Seriously, for basic recording--a mic and a guitar, more or less--pick up any old Mac and a Firewire audio interface (maybe a Focusrite Saffire or an Apogee Duet, for a bit more scratch) and you're off to the races with Garageband. If you want to upgrade to more complex productions, check out Logic 8. Express is only $200 and is more than any hobbyist could want for.
For a cheap set of monitors that don't sound terrible, check out the KRK RP-5s. They're small, and reasonably flat, for the price ($300 a pair). You're not going to get a ton of bass out of a 5" speaker, but you really don't need it.
Just beware--I can't dig up documentation right now, but I hear that Apple switched Firewire chipsets in their latest releases, and it's causing problems with some Firewire interfaces. Definitely, definitely check with the interface manufacturer before buying.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:37 PM on February 15, 2008
For a cheap set of monitors that don't sound terrible, check out the KRK RP-5s. They're small, and reasonably flat, for the price ($300 a pair). You're not going to get a ton of bass out of a 5" speaker, but you really don't need it.
Just beware--I can't dig up documentation right now, but I hear that Apple switched Firewire chipsets in their latest releases, and it's causing problems with some Firewire interfaces. Definitely, definitely check with the interface manufacturer before buying.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:37 PM on February 15, 2008
I'll just drop the same link I do in all these threads - Tweakeadz.
I also really like GarageBand for an easy-to-use out of the box solution especially for multi-track recording but it is not the end-all be-all and it is not particularly expandable.
It is worth reading things like Tweak's Guide which is a nice introduction to the issues.
Figure out if your keyboard is a MIDI controller, which is an important and versatile tool for creating digital music.
posted by nanojath at 12:40 PM on February 15, 2008
I also really like GarageBand for an easy-to-use out of the box solution especially for multi-track recording but it is not the end-all be-all and it is not particularly expandable.
It is worth reading things like Tweak's Guide which is a nice introduction to the issues.
Figure out if your keyboard is a MIDI controller, which is an important and versatile tool for creating digital music.
posted by nanojath at 12:40 PM on February 15, 2008
i'd say stick with garageband for now.
ram doesn't always end up being a limiting factor with digital recording, more often it's the processor's speed (to handle all those effects/plug-ins) that brings systems to their knees.
if he's using instruments that do not require an amplifier (acoustic guitar, voice, real piano, drums, percussion, whatever) he'd probably benefit from a large diaphragm condensor mic. you can't plug this directly into a laptop, it requires an interface with phantom power. a small 2-4 channel firewire interface (w/ phantom power on at least 1 or 2 of the inputs) is probably your best bet.
for the money you spend on a cheap set of monitors you can get a much nicer set of headphones. the sound you can get from $200-300 monitors are equivalent to what you can get from $50-80 headphones. a $200-300 set of headphones starts approaching real studio-quality monitors.
get him a (free!) subscription to tape op too. there tends to be stuff in there for recording enthusiasts of all levels and you can go back and check them out again when you've learned more.
posted by noloveforned at 12:48 PM on February 15, 2008
ram doesn't always end up being a limiting factor with digital recording, more often it's the processor's speed (to handle all those effects/plug-ins) that brings systems to their knees.
if he's using instruments that do not require an amplifier (acoustic guitar, voice, real piano, drums, percussion, whatever) he'd probably benefit from a large diaphragm condensor mic. you can't plug this directly into a laptop, it requires an interface with phantom power. a small 2-4 channel firewire interface (w/ phantom power on at least 1 or 2 of the inputs) is probably your best bet.
for the money you spend on a cheap set of monitors you can get a much nicer set of headphones. the sound you can get from $200-300 monitors are equivalent to what you can get from $50-80 headphones. a $200-300 set of headphones starts approaching real studio-quality monitors.
get him a (free!) subscription to tape op too. there tends to be stuff in there for recording enthusiasts of all levels and you can go back and check them out again when you've learned more.
posted by noloveforned at 12:48 PM on February 15, 2008
Put the money into building a nice box, and then here's your free OS and music software: Ubuntu Studio
Garageband may be less overwhelming and an easier setup though. It has an awesome music making to frustration ratio. It is worth buying a Mac just for Garageband alone.
posted by quarterframer at 12:52 PM on February 15, 2008
Garageband may be less overwhelming and an easier setup though. It has an awesome music making to frustration ratio. It is worth buying a Mac just for Garageband alone.
posted by quarterframer at 12:52 PM on February 15, 2008
The two most important stepping stones here will be speakers and input quality. A set of powered monitors (suggestion 1, suggestion 2), and a USB/Firewire input box can get him near to studio quality. These two will put you back around $500 for everything and will give your talented son a lot of quality audio to help him on his way. Props for supporting his creativity!
posted by rhizome at 12:54 PM on February 15, 2008
posted by rhizome at 12:54 PM on February 15, 2008
Response by poster: Wow...thanks for all the quick responses...I'll sort through the options suggested but for now it feels like you all deserve best answers check marks. :^)
posted by cyclopz at 1:05 PM on February 15, 2008
posted by cyclopz at 1:05 PM on February 15, 2008
The three R's: Reactor, Reason, and Reaper.
Reactor for building synth, Reason for sequencing and receiving MIDI, and Reaper for multitracking the output. And definitely some kind of firewire audio interface breakout box. The more inputs the better!
posted by Area Control at 1:20 PM on February 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
Reactor for building synth, Reason for sequencing and receiving MIDI, and Reaper for multitracking the output. And definitely some kind of firewire audio interface breakout box. The more inputs the better!
posted by Area Control at 1:20 PM on February 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
For software, there are a lot of different options that perform equally well, although the complexity of the user interfaces and the support for more advanced functionality can vary enormously.
In the lower budget range, there are software suites like Sonar Home Studio (formerly Cakewalk Home Studio), or if you're a Mac fan, GarageBand. Some pricier but more functional options for both platforms include Nuendo and Pro Tools LE (which is actually the less expensive version of the much more expensive "industry-standard" hardware and software Pro Tools bundle) . I've had some experience with all of these different platforms and I don't find that it makes much difference to the final result which you use, though each has its pros and cons.
Another mid-priced option that offers a lot of bang for the buck and probably has one of the more intuitive user interfaces is Adobe Audition (which went under the name Cool Edit Pro back when I used it, and which may have undergone significant changes since Adobe acquired it).
There are lots of reasonably affordable hardware options out there these days as well. Some digital audio interfaces are USB 2.0 and Firewire based peripherals, like the MBox (which Pro Tools LE is specifically designed to work with) and the dirt cheap MAudio Fast-Track (I can't endorse the Fast-Track personally though, because I tried one on my machine and had so much trouble getting it up-and-running I eventually returned it). The USB peripherals, in my experience, tend to suffer from latency and other performance issues though, so my own personal preference is for a PCI-card based option. On the lower-end of the pricing spectrum, the Echo Gina3G audio interface kicks butt. (This is what I use--to get a sense for what it can do, check out this and this, both examples of recordings from my project studio.) In general, you can't go wrong with Echo products, IMO. On the higher-end of the price/feature spectrum, there's a whole family of Motu products, including this guy, which a couple of my friends use in their project studios and swear by.
Almost all of these options also demand an investment in a high-quality digital mixer with digital outputs (so you can keep things in the digital domain as much as possible). I actually use an old Roland VS-840 workstation as a digital mixer, running into my Gina3G using an SPDIF connection. The nice thing about the Roland (and lots of actual digital mixers offer this feature, too) is that it offers a dedicated guitar input and has some really nice guitar amp emulator technology on-board. Still other products offer an all-in-one digital mixer, control surface and digital audio interface like this M-Audio unit (though I can't speak from any personal experience with those).
You'll probably want a few Shure SM-57s just as work-horse mics (for instrument and room micing). Those can easily be found for under $100 a pop. Another really crucial component of a small project studio is at least one decent condensor mic. I'm a cheapskate, so I opted for the AKG 2000 C, and it's served me pretty well. With mics, you really do get what you pay for though, and if you can afford it, it's not a bad idea to spring for at least a mid-priced condenser (like the Audio Technica AT4040 , which is what we used to record the vocals on this track if you want to hear a sample.)
Phew! Sorry if this is too much info. What am I forgetting?
Oh yeah--mic and instrument cables. Invest in some good mic and instrument cables. They make all the difference in the world.
I don't have much insight to offer on studio monitors--I use the crappy Bose PC speakers that came standard with one of my old PCs. If, like me, you're too cheap to spring for good monitors, it's easy to work around. Just make lots of mixes and test them out in different playback devices (e.g., your car stereo, your home stereo, your old Sony Disc Man...). I find that mixing on good monitors, while it seems to works well for some, tends to make a lot of people overlook problems in their mixes that become more apparent on cheaper, crappier-sounding speakers. Since most consumers of music listen to music on less-than-ideal audio systems, I figure it makes more sense to mix with the various delivery mechanisms in mind. But I've known lots of people who've seen great benefits from investing in a pair of top-shelf, powered studio monitors, too.
Hope this helps and doesn't just confuse things for you.
posted by saulgoodman at 1:41 PM on February 15, 2008
In the lower budget range, there are software suites like Sonar Home Studio (formerly Cakewalk Home Studio), or if you're a Mac fan, GarageBand. Some pricier but more functional options for both platforms include Nuendo and Pro Tools LE (which is actually the less expensive version of the much more expensive "industry-standard" hardware and software Pro Tools bundle) . I've had some experience with all of these different platforms and I don't find that it makes much difference to the final result which you use, though each has its pros and cons.
Another mid-priced option that offers a lot of bang for the buck and probably has one of the more intuitive user interfaces is Adobe Audition (which went under the name Cool Edit Pro back when I used it, and which may have undergone significant changes since Adobe acquired it).
There are lots of reasonably affordable hardware options out there these days as well. Some digital audio interfaces are USB 2.0 and Firewire based peripherals, like the MBox (which Pro Tools LE is specifically designed to work with) and the dirt cheap MAudio Fast-Track (I can't endorse the Fast-Track personally though, because I tried one on my machine and had so much trouble getting it up-and-running I eventually returned it). The USB peripherals, in my experience, tend to suffer from latency and other performance issues though, so my own personal preference is for a PCI-card based option. On the lower-end of the pricing spectrum, the Echo Gina3G audio interface kicks butt. (This is what I use--to get a sense for what it can do, check out this and this, both examples of recordings from my project studio.) In general, you can't go wrong with Echo products, IMO. On the higher-end of the price/feature spectrum, there's a whole family of Motu products, including this guy, which a couple of my friends use in their project studios and swear by.
Almost all of these options also demand an investment in a high-quality digital mixer with digital outputs (so you can keep things in the digital domain as much as possible). I actually use an old Roland VS-840 workstation as a digital mixer, running into my Gina3G using an SPDIF connection. The nice thing about the Roland (and lots of actual digital mixers offer this feature, too) is that it offers a dedicated guitar input and has some really nice guitar amp emulator technology on-board. Still other products offer an all-in-one digital mixer, control surface and digital audio interface like this M-Audio unit (though I can't speak from any personal experience with those).
You'll probably want a few Shure SM-57s just as work-horse mics (for instrument and room micing). Those can easily be found for under $100 a pop. Another really crucial component of a small project studio is at least one decent condensor mic. I'm a cheapskate, so I opted for the AKG 2000 C, and it's served me pretty well. With mics, you really do get what you pay for though, and if you can afford it, it's not a bad idea to spring for at least a mid-priced condenser (like the Audio Technica AT4040 , which is what we used to record the vocals on this track if you want to hear a sample.)
Phew! Sorry if this is too much info. What am I forgetting?
Oh yeah--mic and instrument cables. Invest in some good mic and instrument cables. They make all the difference in the world.
I don't have much insight to offer on studio monitors--I use the crappy Bose PC speakers that came standard with one of my old PCs. If, like me, you're too cheap to spring for good monitors, it's easy to work around. Just make lots of mixes and test them out in different playback devices (e.g., your car stereo, your home stereo, your old Sony Disc Man...). I find that mixing on good monitors, while it seems to works well for some, tends to make a lot of people overlook problems in their mixes that become more apparent on cheaper, crappier-sounding speakers. Since most consumers of music listen to music on less-than-ideal audio systems, I figure it makes more sense to mix with the various delivery mechanisms in mind. But I've known lots of people who've seen great benefits from investing in a pair of top-shelf, powered studio monitors, too.
Hope this helps and doesn't just confuse things for you.
posted by saulgoodman at 1:41 PM on February 15, 2008
I think a Mac is the way to go, too. I might recommend getting an Edirol FA-66 for an input box. It's real seamless on the Mac platform, and has real clean inputs.
posted by MythMaker at 1:47 PM on February 15, 2008
posted by MythMaker at 1:47 PM on February 15, 2008
GarageBand might be fine, but I really think Ableton Live would expand his horizons even more. In addition to being able to use it for multi-track recording and sequencing, it allows you to play with the sound a lot more and to write original compositions in it as well. It's basically an instrument unto itself and would provide infinite possibilities.
That, a decent soundcard, a decent mic (just your standard studio condenser mic) and some good headphones should get him started. Maybe after a while, it'd be worth it to look at some monitors-- some KRK 5" monitors would sound great and only run about $300 a pair.
posted by atomly at 2:06 PM on February 15, 2008
That, a decent soundcard, a decent mic (just your standard studio condenser mic) and some good headphones should get him started. Maybe after a while, it'd be worth it to look at some monitors-- some KRK 5" monitors would sound great and only run about $300 a pair.
posted by atomly at 2:06 PM on February 15, 2008
I would highly recommend Guitar Pro as a learning tool. It's a combination of MIDI and tab. It's valuable both for playing along with backing tracks and seeing how people put songs together. There are tons and tons of free guitar pro files out there on the chord/tab sites.
posted by Nahum Tate at 2:15 PM on February 15, 2008
posted by Nahum Tate at 2:15 PM on February 15, 2008
GarageBand + an M-Audio usb keyboard + a student-grade electric guitar + an adapter to run the guitar straight into our Mac's audio-in port.
My son's been using that setup for a couple of years now and has been churning-out some amazing tracks.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:39 PM on February 15, 2008
My son's been using that setup for a couple of years now and has been churning-out some amazing tracks.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:39 PM on February 15, 2008
Garageband is fine, but Audacity is terrible for multitracking. Since you haven't said what platform he's using, if it's Windows, he can get Kristal Audio Engine for free.
posted by ludwig_van at 7:07 PM on February 15, 2008
posted by ludwig_van at 7:07 PM on February 15, 2008
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posted by kdern at 12:14 PM on February 15, 2008 [1 favorite]