WANNA WATCH STUFF ON WEB BUT AM SKEERED
February 10, 2008 1:24 PM Subscribe
I've been trying to learn more and more about sites where I can view great old TV classics, documentaries, and movies. And also not necessarily that old. I don't like all the YouTube type of "watch my hamster jump onto my sister's back" crap. And I'm sick of what's available from Comcast (although I have NOT subscribed to their extended service to see HBO shows, which I like very much).
I'm getting skilled at finding out what's available, but I'm scared when I get warnings. For instance, recently Mefi revealed a free movies site called "alluc.org". Wow, what a list. But when you get to a certain point, a stark warning cautions one about proceeding (something about trust; I can't remember the exact wording ... and I can't help thinking if it's REALLY about it being illegal and inviting FBI calls). And now, today a Mefi posting about cult movies led me to Stage6, which insists that you download their "divX" software for viewing. And then come all the horrible warnings about little programs and the possibility of screwing up your computer. Ugh. I don't know what to do.
Can people respond on two levels: first, you know those specific two sites and can say that it's all legal and trustworthy, and then also: is there a generic rule of thumb about what to avoid and especially NOT DO, as I coast around on the net trying to watch streaming videos of all kinds. ... thanks all.
I'm getting skilled at finding out what's available, but I'm scared when I get warnings. For instance, recently Mefi revealed a free movies site called "alluc.org". Wow, what a list. But when you get to a certain point, a stark warning cautions one about proceeding (something about trust; I can't remember the exact wording ... and I can't help thinking if it's REALLY about it being illegal and inviting FBI calls). And now, today a Mefi posting about cult movies led me to Stage6, which insists that you download their "divX" software for viewing. And then come all the horrible warnings about little programs and the possibility of screwing up your computer. Ugh. I don't know what to do.
Can people respond on two levels: first, you know those specific two sites and can say that it's all legal and trustworthy, and then also: is there a generic rule of thumb about what to avoid and especially NOT DO, as I coast around on the net trying to watch streaming videos of all kinds. ... thanks all.
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
I could say they're all legal and trustworthy, but of what use is my opinion? Do the sites have any legal disclaimers on their sites that might tell you something? Any information about their distribution agreements or licensing?
posted by rhizome at 1:57 PM on February 10, 2008
I could say they're all legal and trustworthy, but of what use is my opinion? Do the sites have any legal disclaimers on their sites that might tell you something? Any information about their distribution agreements or licensing?
posted by rhizome at 1:57 PM on February 10, 2008
The ethics of doing this sort of thing are in quite a bit of dispute.
I personally will not consider this wrong or specifically disrespectful at least until copyright law is modified to balance the needs of the people as well as those of the artist.
Now, to answer the original questions..
It is not legal to distribute copyrighted content without the consent of the rightsholder. Stage6 is doing so. However, for the time being, they'll stay online as long as they comply with individual DMCA requests to take material down.
I'm pretty sure it is also illegal to receive copyrighted content without consent of the rightsholder. However, the vast majority of lawsuits that have happened are against uploaders, and not downloaders. When you use Bittorrent, Kazaa, or another P2P app, you, as a user, are both an uploader and a downloader (discounting certain configurations of both) and people have been sued because of the former. When you are using Stage6, you are solely a downloader. You are probably still violating some laws, but you are less likely to be sued than if you use a P2P application.
I should also note that doing absolutely nothing does not absolve you of any risk. A small number of these lawsuits have been against people who have never done anything of this sort, and in at least one case had never even touched a computer.
posted by leviathan3k at 2:12 PM on February 10, 2008
I personally will not consider this wrong or specifically disrespectful at least until copyright law is modified to balance the needs of the people as well as those of the artist.
Now, to answer the original questions..
It is not legal to distribute copyrighted content without the consent of the rightsholder. Stage6 is doing so. However, for the time being, they'll stay online as long as they comply with individual DMCA requests to take material down.
I'm pretty sure it is also illegal to receive copyrighted content without consent of the rightsholder. However, the vast majority of lawsuits that have happened are against uploaders, and not downloaders. When you use Bittorrent, Kazaa, or another P2P app, you, as a user, are both an uploader and a downloader (discounting certain configurations of both) and people have been sued because of the former. When you are using Stage6, you are solely a downloader. You are probably still violating some laws, but you are less likely to be sued than if you use a P2P application.
I should also note that doing absolutely nothing does not absolve you of any risk. A small number of these lawsuits have been against people who have never done anything of this sort, and in at least one case had never even touched a computer.
posted by leviathan3k at 2:12 PM on February 10, 2008
If you're dead-fearful about copyright violation, download the Joost client and limit yourself to using it. Joost has a corporate model that doesn't allow normal users to upload video, so everything on there will be from a rights-holder (or at least from a corporate entity that believes it holds the digital rights). I've been watching old episodes of I Spy on Joost, for example, but there are loads of full-length TV shows, movies, and documentaries, as well as obscure sports (The Badminton Channel! The Nicaraguan Baseball Channel! The Chilean Rugby Channel!), etc. There's a lot of chaffe, to be sure, but there's probably sufficient wheat in there for you as well.
If you have a Netflix account and a compatible Windows box, Netflix has licensed loads of stuff for their Watch Instantly service. Got NetFlix? It's completely legal, and free on top of your normal DVD rental (certain restrictions apply...see fine print for details)
And if leviathan3k's answer makes you more comfortable consuming video that was probably not uploaded by rightsholders, then check out Guba, too, which is similar to GoogleVideo or Stage6, but doesn't use Divx, so the screwing-up-your-computer aspect is a non-issue. It looks like it scrapes Usenet for much of its content.
posted by mumkin at 3:08 PM on February 10, 2008
If you have a Netflix account and a compatible Windows box, Netflix has licensed loads of stuff for their Watch Instantly service. Got NetFlix? It's completely legal, and free on top of your normal DVD rental (certain restrictions apply...see fine print for details)
And if leviathan3k's answer makes you more comfortable consuming video that was probably not uploaded by rightsholders, then check out Guba, too, which is similar to GoogleVideo or Stage6, but doesn't use Divx, so the screwing-up-your-computer aspect is a non-issue. It looks like it scrapes Usenet for much of its content.
posted by mumkin at 3:08 PM on February 10, 2008
Netflix is adding more and more videos to its "Watch Now" service and has removed the limitations (from some accounts) on the amount you can watch. Give it a shot.
posted by null terminated at 3:13 PM on February 10, 2008
posted by null terminated at 3:13 PM on February 10, 2008
oops, didn't preview.
posted by null terminated at 3:13 PM on February 10, 2008
posted by null terminated at 3:13 PM on February 10, 2008
Response by poster: Gee, I didn't think I'd get the caustic bucket-toss, as per Sharkfu. I lead about as legal a life as one could normatively imagine. My question was, since I'm new to deriving entertainment from el Webbo, I simply don't know what warnings are about Legality!! versus those about the health of one's computer, versus those about spy-bots. Etc. I wanted help, first. I mean, does Sharkfu always drive within legal speed limits; never spits in the gutter? never tastes a roasted almond at the bulk bin? And for Rhizome, I was confused. What does he/she mean by "I _could_ say they were all legal"?
Again: I'm looking for specific help to a newby. Of course I don't want to be a thief, but I want to learn how this is all playing out. I mean, is it illegal just to watch clips on Guba of old TV shows... and similar clips on YouTUbe (the good clips)? Are Sharkfu and Rhizome saying that a person just has to know (by doing some sort of research) whether in every single case the thing being dowloaded is currently copyrighted? Should I never look at Guba, and Classic Television? Seems to me that MANY of these activities are LEGAL!! And what about my question about the "little software add-on" dangers? KEEP the help coming. Thanks.
posted by yazi at 3:14 PM on February 10, 2008
Again: I'm looking for specific help to a newby. Of course I don't want to be a thief, but I want to learn how this is all playing out. I mean, is it illegal just to watch clips on Guba of old TV shows... and similar clips on YouTUbe (the good clips)? Are Sharkfu and Rhizome saying that a person just has to know (by doing some sort of research) whether in every single case the thing being dowloaded is currently copyrighted? Should I never look at Guba, and Classic Television? Seems to me that MANY of these activities are LEGAL!! And what about my question about the "little software add-on" dangers? KEEP the help coming. Thanks.
posted by yazi at 3:14 PM on February 10, 2008
I'm spooked about downloading stuff, too, but there's a ton of amazing content at google video. You can futz around with the advanced search engine, but it can be as simple as searching "bbc" and selecting for long videos. That'll get you enough documentaries to keep you busy for awhile.
posted by moxiedoll at 3:29 PM on February 10, 2008
posted by moxiedoll at 3:29 PM on February 10, 2008
Response by poster: Thanks, Mumkin. I'm very interested in the Joost website. Looks great. Thanks Null terminated, too. I will examine Netflix's scheme. Seems like my best bet is to just learn by trial, and try to divine the nature of the sight I am on. I'll stay away from "add-on" software, since my gut still says "NO"; and no Mefi gurus have spoken up and said "little add-ons are harmless." !! I wonder, though, what is that "client" thingamabob that I have to download for Joost? Isn't that one o' them spy-bots? Seriously.
posted by yazi at 4:13 PM on February 10, 2008
posted by yazi at 4:13 PM on February 10, 2008
I wasn't being caustic. I was being terse. I apologize if I came off wrong.
I thought it was quite obvious from those sites that they're not legal but maybe it wasn't to you. So just to be clear: Alluc.org is not legal. Neither is stage6. You probably won't get caught but I personally still think it's wrong.
Here's a quick guide: most of the times when you get something for free and don't pay either by: purchasing, renting, or watching ads... it's usually not legal. Yeah, I guess it is confusing out there, but whenever you see warnings about them not being responsible for the content and it only being linked to, etc it's probably not good.
Buying or renting DVDs is legal.
Itunes / Apple TV is legal.
Amazon Unbox is legal.
Joost is legal.
Vudu is legal.
All the network sites which stream their own TV shows are legal: ABC, NBC, Comedy Central, etc.
Divx or xvid video codecs are not in of themselves bad, but I would always try to find a safe source for the software (download.com/ majorgeeks.com) rather than the site offering up the video.
posted by sharkfu at 4:26 PM on February 10, 2008
I thought it was quite obvious from those sites that they're not legal but maybe it wasn't to you. So just to be clear: Alluc.org is not legal. Neither is stage6. You probably won't get caught but I personally still think it's wrong.
Here's a quick guide: most of the times when you get something for free and don't pay either by: purchasing, renting, or watching ads... it's usually not legal. Yeah, I guess it is confusing out there, but whenever you see warnings about them not being responsible for the content and it only being linked to, etc it's probably not good.
Buying or renting DVDs is legal.
Itunes / Apple TV is legal.
Amazon Unbox is legal.
Joost is legal.
Vudu is legal.
All the network sites which stream their own TV shows are legal: ABC, NBC, Comedy Central, etc.
Divx or xvid video codecs are not in of themselves bad, but I would always try to find a safe source for the software (download.com/ majorgeeks.com) rather than the site offering up the video.
posted by sharkfu at 4:26 PM on February 10, 2008
alluc.org isn't operating in the U.S., which is why they're not immediately shut down. Whether or not they eventually do depends on how much traffic (and therefore notice) they get.
The "legality" of watching illegal streamed content is a bit hazy, since you don't technically ever possess it. But the bigger point is that The Man really only cares about people distributing copyrighted content- that's why you read about the RIAA suing people using P2P networks; you never hear about people getting chased down for viewing any of these kinds of sites.
Understand, however, that the issue of legality is one that rests on very subtle interpretations. What's important to know is that it's just wrong- no one's getting royalty checks for you watching content they made on those sites.
nthing Netflix. I also suspect that Amazon and Apple will be making an increasing amount of back-catalogue content available in the coming year or two. It's like free money for the studios.
posted by mkultra at 4:27 PM on February 10, 2008
The "legality" of watching illegal streamed content is a bit hazy, since you don't technically ever possess it. But the bigger point is that The Man really only cares about people distributing copyrighted content- that's why you read about the RIAA suing people using P2P networks; you never hear about people getting chased down for viewing any of these kinds of sites.
Understand, however, that the issue of legality is one that rests on very subtle interpretations. What's important to know is that it's just wrong- no one's getting royalty checks for you watching content they made on those sites.
nthing Netflix. I also suspect that Amazon and Apple will be making an increasing amount of back-catalogue content available in the coming year or two. It's like free money for the studios.
posted by mkultra at 4:27 PM on February 10, 2008
hulu.com (currently requires an invitation, I waited a week or so for mine) and fancast.com have streamed TV shows. They're legal and supported by short ads.
posted by lemonwheel at 6:10 PM on February 10, 2008
posted by lemonwheel at 6:10 PM on February 10, 2008
as a folowup to lemonwheel,
openhulu.com has the same content as hulu.com or some of it? and doesn't require invites.
posted by RobertDigital at 7:12 PM on February 10, 2008
openhulu.com has the same content as hulu.com or some of it? and doesn't require invites.
posted by RobertDigital at 7:12 PM on February 10, 2008
Response by poster: Sharkfu is very righteous for realizing that he'd jumped very hard at me, out of the gate. THanks, Sharky, esp. for the added thoughts. All the responses have been excellent.
posted by yazi at 7:29 PM on February 10, 2008
posted by yazi at 7:29 PM on February 10, 2008
Seconding perfectly-legal option that is hulu. I waited over a month to get my invite (that was when they first opened their doors) but I recently set my father up with it on his laptop and it only took two weeks for his invite.
It's a joint venture between NBC and News Corp and offers programming from NBC and FOX primarily, but also has stuff owned by those networks (Bravo, FX, Oxygen....) It also has some full-length movies.
It's in beta and they're testing how to do the ads, but they're really minimal (three ads for the same product during one 25 minute show) and so much less invasive than on broadcast.
The Wikipedia page on hulu has more information, including a link to a site that contains embedded hulu content for people waiting to get in.
posted by k8lin at 8:11 PM on February 10, 2008
It's a joint venture between NBC and News Corp and offers programming from NBC and FOX primarily, but also has stuff owned by those networks (Bravo, FX, Oxygen....) It also has some full-length movies.
It's in beta and they're testing how to do the ads, but they're really minimal (three ads for the same product during one 25 minute show) and so much less invasive than on broadcast.
The Wikipedia page on hulu has more information, including a link to a site that contains embedded hulu content for people waiting to get in.
posted by k8lin at 8:11 PM on February 10, 2008
Seconding the perfectly-legal option that is hulu. I hate when I make mistakes.
posted by k8lin at 8:12 PM on February 10, 2008
posted by k8lin at 8:12 PM on February 10, 2008
It's interesting that all the legal options are only available to Americans. It's like the Americans who own the copyright dont realize that we have the internet too. The only option is to skate the borders of legaility - as others have mentioned its generally not legal unless you pay for it or it is hosted on the official site of the network that broadcast the programme.
Stage6 is a big professional company that makes divX - I have downloaded their codec with no issues.
posted by meech at 9:09 PM on February 10, 2008
Stage6 is a big professional company that makes divX - I have downloaded their codec with no issues.
posted by meech at 9:09 PM on February 10, 2008
I wonder, though, what is that "client" thingamabob that I have to download for Joost? Isn't that one o' them spy-bots? Seriously.
The "client" thingamabob is the Joost application, which handles presentation of the content. It's a damned slick interface — Tivo-like, and well-suited to 10-foot use (in the main... the text can be a bit small). Joost doesn't allow you to download video to watch in WMP, for example. It streams, and doesn't pre-cache much. This is part of their DRM, so that you never have a complete copy. However, your machine is serving as a node in their P2P network, helping Joost to legally distribute content to other Joost users. They also have nascent functionality for video sharing (Hulu appears to be much further along with this) with friends, for added viral mojo. So, you have to use the client, because it does much more than just play video.
Is it malware? It's using system and network resources, and I'm sure it's reporting back some usage data, QOS info, viewing trends, etc... but that's part of you watching their stuff, with its occasional ads, for free. It's not doing it surreptitiously, certainly. It is not spyware in the more commonly understood sense, which would involve sniffing for passwords, scanning your hard drive for credit card numbers, and the like, not telling you about all that, and pretending to offer a completely unrelated function. Or if it is, no one knows that it's doing that yet, which could be said of any software you trust for the nonce.
posted by mumkin at 10:14 PM on February 10, 2008
The "client" thingamabob is the Joost application, which handles presentation of the content. It's a damned slick interface — Tivo-like, and well-suited to 10-foot use (in the main... the text can be a bit small). Joost doesn't allow you to download video to watch in WMP, for example. It streams, and doesn't pre-cache much. This is part of their DRM, so that you never have a complete copy. However, your machine is serving as a node in their P2P network, helping Joost to legally distribute content to other Joost users. They also have nascent functionality for video sharing (Hulu appears to be much further along with this) with friends, for added viral mojo. So, you have to use the client, because it does much more than just play video.
Is it malware? It's using system and network resources, and I'm sure it's reporting back some usage data, QOS info, viewing trends, etc... but that's part of you watching their stuff, with its occasional ads, for free. It's not doing it surreptitiously, certainly. It is not spyware in the more commonly understood sense, which would involve sniffing for passwords, scanning your hard drive for credit card numbers, and the like, not telling you about all that, and pretending to offer a completely unrelated function. Or if it is, no one knows that it's doing that yet, which could be said of any software you trust for the nonce.
posted by mumkin at 10:14 PM on February 10, 2008
...And now, today a Mefi posting about cult movies led me to Stage6, which insists that you download their "divX" software for viewing. And then come all the horrible warnings about little programs and the possibility of screwing up your computer. Ugh. I don't know what to do.
Can people respond on two levels: first, you know those specific two sites and can say that it's all legal and trustworthy...
No clue on the legality of all files, but I'll state publicly that I only download or watch movies/videos that are legal, public domain etc.
I've never had a problem with Stage6 trustworthiness. Of all the different sites that host files (stage6, veoh, dailymotion, megavideo, 56.com, tudou, google, youtube, etc.), I'd say Stage6 is by far my favourite. Easy to download files, which are normally of high enough quality for me (700 megs per movie on average), and are a fast download (maybe 5 minutes for 700 megs).
Stage6 allows you the option to download the file (and then watch off your hard drive), or you can click play to stream it. When you stream it though, you still seem to download the same file, it just seems to be a temporary one that is erased from your hard drive once you close the browser that had the video playing (or click on a new video to watch). Considering this, if you're leery of installing the Stage6 divx software, you could always download the file, burn it to dvd, watch it in a dvd player and delete the video file from your hard drive. An alternative, someone mentioned download.com as a safe source for software (no clue if it is, I'll use it but...) but I suppose if you trust them you could download VLC media player from there which also plays Stage6's divx files.
The only thing I can't remember is whether Stage6 allows you to download files from them without downloading their software first. If they don't, the trick to get around that would be to use websites (example: joox.net) that keep track of files located on Stage6 as they normally also have a separate link to download the file not within the viewing window. Using these sites to find material might be better as sometimes the Stage6 search engine seems a bit wonky, and users sometimes seem to purposefully mislabel their files as they're worried they'll be removed.
I'm tired, feel free to mefi mail me if you want further information.
posted by curbstop at 10:48 PM on February 11, 2008
Can people respond on two levels: first, you know those specific two sites and can say that it's all legal and trustworthy...
No clue on the legality of all files, but I'll state publicly that I only download or watch movies/videos that are legal, public domain etc.
I've never had a problem with Stage6 trustworthiness. Of all the different sites that host files (stage6, veoh, dailymotion, megavideo, 56.com, tudou, google, youtube, etc.), I'd say Stage6 is by far my favourite. Easy to download files, which are normally of high enough quality for me (700 megs per movie on average), and are a fast download (maybe 5 minutes for 700 megs).
Stage6 allows you the option to download the file (and then watch off your hard drive), or you can click play to stream it. When you stream it though, you still seem to download the same file, it just seems to be a temporary one that is erased from your hard drive once you close the browser that had the video playing (or click on a new video to watch). Considering this, if you're leery of installing the Stage6 divx software, you could always download the file, burn it to dvd, watch it in a dvd player and delete the video file from your hard drive. An alternative, someone mentioned download.com as a safe source for software (no clue if it is, I'll use it but...) but I suppose if you trust them you could download VLC media player from there which also plays Stage6's divx files.
The only thing I can't remember is whether Stage6 allows you to download files from them without downloading their software first. If they don't, the trick to get around that would be to use websites (example: joox.net) that keep track of files located on Stage6 as they normally also have a separate link to download the file not within the viewing window. Using these sites to find material might be better as sometimes the Stage6 search engine seems a bit wonky, and users sometimes seem to purposefully mislabel their files as they're worried they'll be removed.
I'm tired, feel free to mefi mail me if you want further information.
posted by curbstop at 10:48 PM on February 11, 2008
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I think you should respect the copyright holders and view them legally through purchased DVDs/rented DVDs from Netflix or online through Itunes/ Amazon unbox.
posted by sharkfu at 1:34 PM on February 10, 2008