She who must be obeyed wants a new kitchen
December 5, 2007 4:35 AM Subscribe
Shortly after marrying Mrs Mutant I learned I needed a new kitchen. After precisely NO debate on this topic we're starting the kitchen work Sunday. I have some questions.
Since we're not sure if we're going to staying London much past a year (proposed changes in UK tax laws regarding "non domiciled ex-pats", previously discussed here and here) or continue to live in this flat for longer than a year even if we do stay (it's getting upscale in The Ghetto and we've got great hopes for the UK property collapse), we're low ending the renovation.
We purchased an appropriate kitchen set at IKEA, received the flat pack about a week ago, and I've assembled all nine cabinets. We're fortunate enough to have a very spacious flat, so everything is actually setup and ready to go. We've got professional installers coming, but would to get this done and dusted as rapidly as possible, so we need to make sure we've setup everything in the best possible manner. And we'd like to make sure we don't repeat anyone else's mistakes.
We've scheduled the work in two phases as follows :
First, removal of existing cabinets, relocation of appliances (cooker, fridge & washing machine) and removal of existing vinyl flooring.
[ two day break to allow me to paint entire kitchen, perform remedial work on electrical outlets, get slow drains cleared down ]
Second, lying down new vinyl floor after, perhaps, re-leveling. Installation of ducting necessary for dryer (not installed presently). Installation of new cabinets, leveling, grouting around edges, installation of skirting covering feet (plinths) and gap from cabinet base to floor), verification that door / drawers function properly. Reinstallation and connection of appliances.
As background, this is a two bedroom flat, consisting of two floors with a garden. About 37 years old, its located in Zone 2, Central London, walking distance to either of London's financial districts; Whitechapel, specifically.
I purchased it as a "fixer upper" in 2001. The elderly English woman who lived (and died here, We've got a Ghost in our lounge!!) didn't do any maintenance and was a hoarder, thus allowing me to negotiate a sharp discount to market price at the time. It took me two months to clear out the place and render it (minimally) suitable for living with most of my effort focused on the lounge where her body was discovered. I gutted and renovated the lounge, redoing the electrical outlets, installing a wooden laminate floor and painting. So given the age and lack of maintenance over the years, we definitely need a new kitchen (and I've been informed a new bathroom as well) but plumbing is totally out of my skill range, and as we need this work done before Christmas learning "on the job" isn't an option.
Many thanks for your help!
Since we're not sure if we're going to staying London much past a year (proposed changes in UK tax laws regarding "non domiciled ex-pats", previously discussed here and here) or continue to live in this flat for longer than a year even if we do stay (it's getting upscale in The Ghetto and we've got great hopes for the UK property collapse), we're low ending the renovation.
We purchased an appropriate kitchen set at IKEA, received the flat pack about a week ago, and I've assembled all nine cabinets. We're fortunate enough to have a very spacious flat, so everything is actually setup and ready to go. We've got professional installers coming, but would to get this done and dusted as rapidly as possible, so we need to make sure we've setup everything in the best possible manner. And we'd like to make sure we don't repeat anyone else's mistakes.
We've scheduled the work in two phases as follows :
First, removal of existing cabinets, relocation of appliances (cooker, fridge & washing machine) and removal of existing vinyl flooring.
[ two day break to allow me to paint entire kitchen, perform remedial work on electrical outlets, get slow drains cleared down ]
Second, lying down new vinyl floor after, perhaps, re-leveling. Installation of ducting necessary for dryer (not installed presently). Installation of new cabinets, leveling, grouting around edges, installation of skirting covering feet (plinths) and gap from cabinet base to floor), verification that door / drawers function properly. Reinstallation and connection of appliances.
As background, this is a two bedroom flat, consisting of two floors with a garden. About 37 years old, its located in Zone 2, Central London, walking distance to either of London's financial districts; Whitechapel, specifically.
I purchased it as a "fixer upper" in 2001. The elderly English woman who lived (and died here, We've got a Ghost in our lounge!!) didn't do any maintenance and was a hoarder, thus allowing me to negotiate a sharp discount to market price at the time. It took me two months to clear out the place and render it (minimally) suitable for living with most of my effort focused on the lounge where her body was discovered. I gutted and renovated the lounge, redoing the electrical outlets, installing a wooden laminate floor and painting. So given the age and lack of maintenance over the years, we definitely need a new kitchen (and I've been informed a new bathroom as well) but plumbing is totally out of my skill range, and as we need this work done before Christmas learning "on the job" isn't an option.
- Re-leveling is something the contractor is pushing. While it doesn't cost much (perhaps £100), is this really necessary? My understanding is if we don't re-level and if there are significant differences in floor height, the new vinyl may tear under pressure. But what deviance in height is of concern?
- Floor preparation - when I renovated the lounge after removing the rugs and underliner I used a floor sealant before laying the laminate; what is typically done for vinyl?
- We've assembled the IKEA with the feet, but without hinges installed. Does this make sense or should we totally assemble the units? Doesn't seem like attaching the doors, for example, will make the actual cabinet installation any easier, but maybe this is the norm?
- Countertops - all the work surfaces we've purchased, when placed on the cabinets have about 1" of overhang at the front. The current (30+ year old) countertops are flush with the existing (ancient and abused) cabinets. Neither of us have seen such pronounced overhang, although it doesn't bother us. Would you advise cutting to fit flush or leaving about 1" of overhang?
- Once the countertops have been cut to fit lengthwise, what type of glue do we use to attach the strips intended to cover the cuts/ends? Will ordinary superglue be acceptable?
- Dryer duct; we don't currently have a dryer but wanted this installed in case we (or tenants we ultimately rent this to) need one. Given that we'll have a nice hole in the wall with a hose leading into the kitchen but behind our cabinets, how is this typically sealed off? Vermin including rats have been spotted in our garden from time to time. I was thinking of having it sealed at both ends, outside and inside, but what is used?
- Slow drains - I'm planning on renting a drill snake to clear these out but haven't worked with one before. My understanding is we're talking simply about what amounts of a longish piece of wire which, mounted on a drill, is pushed down the drain while rotating. I've seen different lengths - should I just grab the longest or is it possible I'll damage something (perhaps horrifyingly expensive to fix) down there using this? Will a drill suffice to clear out 30+ years of kitchen waste, or are chemicals needed as well? If so, what would be advisable to use? I need to take advantage of this opportunity while the drains are completely accessible.
- Appliance relocation - I realise new refrigerators need to sit "in place" after being unboxed for at least 24 hours before being plugged in. Our is in use and loaded with food. Can we simply unplug, move to the lounge, and replug? Or must it sit for 24 hours as well? Same question applies to reinstallation once the kitchen work is done.
- Cooker - our contractor provides a CORGI registered service for disconnecting & reconecting the cooker. How do we sign off on this work? I guess if we don't smell gas it's a start, but any tips?
- Structural integrity - We have some concerns here as I can climb up on the work surfaces of our existing kitchen cabinets if necessary, but the IKEA cabinets sitting in our lounge is damn wobbly. I realise the units are bolted together and then to the wall during installation, but is there any other steps that we might be missing? Do all cabinets start out this wobbly?
- Any other tips on signing off & accepting the work? We're just thinking along the lines of run the faucets and work the drawers / doors (which should close on their own with a satisfying "thud"), but what else do you recommend we look at? This is especially important as I negotiated a cash price with a staggered payment schedule (40% to start phase one, 40% to start phase two, and 20% at the end) and once these guys are physically out of the flat we'll have little recourse.
Many thanks for your help!
Best answer: Floor leveling is typically not a big deal. In most places they just pour a thin set concrete and let gravity do the work. Flooring goes on top of that.
If you put the doors on the hinges, your installers will take them off. Don't bother.
Go ahead and move your fridge and plug it in - you might want to check/clean the drip pan first.
I don't know what dryer ducts in the UK look like, but if it's like the US, they'd put on a couple caps (scroll down), with a sheet metal screw on each to keep it in place.
You probably don't want to use super glue on counter ends. Super glue (aka, cyanoacrylate) dries brittle and tends to break on impact. The manufacturer will usually suggest a glue, but many laminates use contact cement. See this guide.
posted by plinth at 5:07 AM on December 5, 2007
If you put the doors on the hinges, your installers will take them off. Don't bother.
Go ahead and move your fridge and plug it in - you might want to check/clean the drip pan first.
I don't know what dryer ducts in the UK look like, but if it's like the US, they'd put on a couple caps (scroll down), with a sheet metal screw on each to keep it in place.
You probably don't want to use super glue on counter ends. Super glue (aka, cyanoacrylate) dries brittle and tends to break on impact. The manufacturer will usually suggest a glue, but many laminates use contact cement. See this guide.
posted by plinth at 5:07 AM on December 5, 2007
Best answer: Re-levelling - it doesn't take much (sometimes only 1/16") to cause problems on vinyl flooring e.g. tearing and uneven stretching. Depends a lot on the type of vinyl. Also, a flat even floor helps with installing the cabinets neatly. Probably worth it, if £100 won't break the bank.
Attaching the strips - contact cement is the stuff to use, though the strips often come pre-prepared with a hot melt glue (i.e. heat gun or iron on). If you use contact cement, read & follow the instructions - the bit about "apply to both surfaces, wait 'till tack dry, press together" is the whole point of the stuff.
Snaking - it can be easy to smash pipes, particularly old clay or cast iron ones, if you don't know what you're doing and/or aren't careful. Might be worth paying a plumber to do just so you've got someone to blame!
posted by Pinback at 5:09 AM on December 5, 2007
Attaching the strips - contact cement is the stuff to use, though the strips often come pre-prepared with a hot melt glue (i.e. heat gun or iron on). If you use contact cement, read & follow the instructions - the bit about "apply to both surfaces, wait 'till tack dry, press together" is the whole point of the stuff.
Snaking - it can be easy to smash pipes, particularly old clay or cast iron ones, if you don't know what you're doing and/or aren't careful. Might be worth paying a plumber to do just so you've got someone to blame!
posted by Pinback at 5:09 AM on December 5, 2007
Best answer: Lots of questions, but:
1) Don't put the doors on the cabinets; it's a lot easier for the installers to do it if they can put their hands inside them without the door flopping open and shut around their hands/arms. Lowers chances of damage, too.
2) For £100, I'd do the floor levelling, only because it bugged me when I looked at a place with a curiously uneven floor (not too much, but enough that I noticed it) that it was one of the reasons I didn't buy it. Plus, if it'll screw up your tile if you don't, that's another reason.
3) I'd like about 1" of overhang on my counters, rather than flush. It's a bit much, but not too bad, I'd say.
4) My dryer vent goes to the outside and has little plastic "shutters" which are light enough to open when the dryer's on, but small enough to close tightly and prevent critters from getting in. I've never had a problem, and even if a spider or some creepy-crawler did enter, it probably wouldn't last long until it was blown out. But I doubt that get in at all. So I'd just put one of those in.
5) Drains. I'd use a chemical before and after snaking them; it'll probably make the job go quicker. My worry would be, English plumbing - weird angles? Maybe that would cause problems, but they could probably tell you at the hardware shop.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 5:18 AM on December 5, 2007
1) Don't put the doors on the cabinets; it's a lot easier for the installers to do it if they can put their hands inside them without the door flopping open and shut around their hands/arms. Lowers chances of damage, too.
2) For £100, I'd do the floor levelling, only because it bugged me when I looked at a place with a curiously uneven floor (not too much, but enough that I noticed it) that it was one of the reasons I didn't buy it. Plus, if it'll screw up your tile if you don't, that's another reason.
3) I'd like about 1" of overhang on my counters, rather than flush. It's a bit much, but not too bad, I'd say.
4) My dryer vent goes to the outside and has little plastic "shutters" which are light enough to open when the dryer's on, but small enough to close tightly and prevent critters from getting in. I've never had a problem, and even if a spider or some creepy-crawler did enter, it probably wouldn't last long until it was blown out. But I doubt that get in at all. So I'd just put one of those in.
5) Drains. I'd use a chemical before and after snaking them; it'll probably make the job go quicker. My worry would be, English plumbing - weird angles? Maybe that would cause problems, but they could probably tell you at the hardware shop.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 5:18 AM on December 5, 2007
And don't wobble around ontop of cabinets. Get a good stepladder if you don't already have one.
posted by uandt at 5:20 AM on December 5, 2007
posted by uandt at 5:20 AM on December 5, 2007
Best answer: # Countertops - all the work surfaces we've purchased, when placed on the cabinets have about 1" of overhang at the front. The current (30+ year old) countertops are flush with the existing (ancient and abused) cabinets. Neither of us have seen such pronounced overhang, although it doesn't bother us. Would you advise cutting to fit flush or leaving about 1" of overhang?
An inch is fairly normal.
# Once the countertops have been cut to fit lengthwise, what type of glue do we use to attach the strips intended to cover the cuts/ends? Will ordinary superglue be acceptable?
I've usually seen this done with a hot glue gun. The laminate chips quite easily if it's flapping loose, so I'd probably want to ensure that a good job is done on this.
# Dryer duct; we don't currently have a dryer but wanted this installed in case we (or tenants we ultimately rent this to) need one. Given that we'll have a nice hole in the wall with a hose leading into the kitchen but behind our cabinets, how is this typically sealed off? Vermin including rats have been spotted in our garden from time to time. I was thinking of having it sealed at both ends, outside and inside, but what is used?
Condensing dryers are just as common these days (vapour fills an internal resevoir that can be removed and emptied). I really struggle to believe that you will add much value by putting in the dryer vent in the outside wall, and as you note it creates new problems.
# Structural integrity - We have some concerns here as I can climb up on the work surfaces of our existing kitchen cabinets if necessary, but the IKEA cabinets sitting in our lounge is damn wobbly. I realise the units are bolted together and then to the wall during installation, but is there any other steps that we might be missing? Do all cabinets start out this wobbly?
They should get a bit more integrity once they're in place by virtue of being fitted between two walls (or if not between two walls, normally a freestanding vertical board is fixed to the walls adjacent to the end unit). IKEA stuff isn't exactly known for build quality though...
posted by bifter at 5:23 AM on December 5, 2007
An inch is fairly normal.
# Once the countertops have been cut to fit lengthwise, what type of glue do we use to attach the strips intended to cover the cuts/ends? Will ordinary superglue be acceptable?
I've usually seen this done with a hot glue gun. The laminate chips quite easily if it's flapping loose, so I'd probably want to ensure that a good job is done on this.
# Dryer duct; we don't currently have a dryer but wanted this installed in case we (or tenants we ultimately rent this to) need one. Given that we'll have a nice hole in the wall with a hose leading into the kitchen but behind our cabinets, how is this typically sealed off? Vermin including rats have been spotted in our garden from time to time. I was thinking of having it sealed at both ends, outside and inside, but what is used?
Condensing dryers are just as common these days (vapour fills an internal resevoir that can be removed and emptied). I really struggle to believe that you will add much value by putting in the dryer vent in the outside wall, and as you note it creates new problems.
# Structural integrity - We have some concerns here as I can climb up on the work surfaces of our existing kitchen cabinets if necessary, but the IKEA cabinets sitting in our lounge is damn wobbly. I realise the units are bolted together and then to the wall during installation, but is there any other steps that we might be missing? Do all cabinets start out this wobbly?
They should get a bit more integrity once they're in place by virtue of being fitted between two walls (or if not between two walls, normally a freestanding vertical board is fixed to the walls adjacent to the end unit). IKEA stuff isn't exactly known for build quality though...
posted by bifter at 5:23 AM on December 5, 2007
Best answer: You can plug the fridge in right away, as long as it remains upright, or close to it while moving it (i.e, tilting a bit is ok, laying on its side is not).
The leaving it unplugged for 24 hrs thing has to do with oil potentially flowing out of the compressor if the fridge is laid on its side.
posted by davey_darling at 5:24 AM on December 5, 2007
The leaving it unplugged for 24 hrs thing has to do with oil potentially flowing out of the compressor if the fridge is laid on its side.
posted by davey_darling at 5:24 AM on December 5, 2007
Best answer: Cooker: Your installer will have some kind of gas leak detector but you can check the integrity of the joins with a half & half mix of washing up liquid & water. Spread it on and any leaks will bubble.
Drains: You might need to clean the exterior drains as well. Look in the back garden for a square manhole over -- underneath this should be the inspection chamber for the drains. You will need to lift it off, this sometimes takes some efforts as they get rusty. Turn the taps on the house and see how the water flows and do a visual inspection with a torch.
To clean them you need to hire or buy some drains rods. These are flexible rods that can be joined together to extend the length. You then push the rods in, with appropriate attachments, moving them back and forth & turning clockwise. If you decide to do this (and I suspect you might need to) here is a very handy set of instructions with pictures .
You can buy Hydrochloric acid form hardware stores which is good for internal drains, don't forget to clean out the U bends before doing anything else.
posted by tallus at 5:52 AM on December 5, 2007
Drains: You might need to clean the exterior drains as well. Look in the back garden for a square manhole over -- underneath this should be the inspection chamber for the drains. You will need to lift it off, this sometimes takes some efforts as they get rusty. Turn the taps on the house and see how the water flows and do a visual inspection with a torch.
To clean them you need to hire or buy some drains rods. These are flexible rods that can be joined together to extend the length. You then push the rods in, with appropriate attachments, moving them back and forth & turning clockwise. If you decide to do this (and I suspect you might need to) here is a very handy set of instructions with pictures .
You can buy Hydrochloric acid form hardware stores which is good for internal drains, don't forget to clean out the U bends before doing anything else.
posted by tallus at 5:52 AM on December 5, 2007
Best answer: Stupid question alert: Your 1" overhang, is that with or without the doors on? Cause that's going to make a difference...
posted by Helga-woo at 6:12 AM on December 5, 2007
posted by Helga-woo at 6:12 AM on December 5, 2007
Best answer: We have torn linoleum on my bathroom floor because the uneven floors were not leveled...so yes, it is worth the extra work.
We just had our kitchen remodeled. We had planned to do a lot of the work ourselves, but ended up paying our contractor to do them so we could keep on schedule. Things like patching the plaster walls and painting took longer than we expected.
You will get tired of eating at restaurants by the end of your remodel, trust me!
posted by pluckysparrow at 6:18 AM on December 5, 2007
We just had our kitchen remodeled. We had planned to do a lot of the work ourselves, but ended up paying our contractor to do them so we could keep on schedule. Things like patching the plaster walls and painting took longer than we expected.
You will get tired of eating at restaurants by the end of your remodel, trust me!
posted by pluckysparrow at 6:18 AM on December 5, 2007
Best answer: 1" of overhang-- I would say that is typical, maybe even low, in American kitchens.
I only have 2 suggestions. The first is that you consider painting at the very end. That's what most people do.
I couldn't disagree more. In my experience, it is far, FAR easier to paint everything while the kitchen is empty. Yes, there will be touchup after the fact, but that is relaitively easy and neat. The majority of the job isn't. Do the sloppy stuff in an environment where you can be sloppy and it doesn't matter.
posted by Doohickie at 6:26 AM on December 5, 2007
I only have 2 suggestions. The first is that you consider painting at the very end. That's what most people do.
I couldn't disagree more. In my experience, it is far, FAR easier to paint everything while the kitchen is empty. Yes, there will be touchup after the fact, but that is relaitively easy and neat. The majority of the job isn't. Do the sloppy stuff in an environment where you can be sloppy and it doesn't matter.
posted by Doohickie at 6:26 AM on December 5, 2007
Best answer: We just intalled an IKEA kithen - love it - and my only advice is it will take twice as long as you think for all your construction. We knocked down a few walls, leveled and put in a new floor and did all the plumbing, electrical, cabinets and counters ourselves. Thought it would take 3+. Just warning. And my husband was in school with only one class so he was able to work most days on this with me helping in the evening and weekends.
But you will love it when it is done.
Send me an email if you would like to see some before and after pics.
posted by shaarog at 8:25 AM on December 5, 2007
But you will love it when it is done.
Send me an email if you would like to see some before and after pics.
posted by shaarog at 8:25 AM on December 5, 2007
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My other suggestion is to search through these sites:
The Kitchen Forum. at That Home Site. There's also an Appliance Forum.
And the Ikea Fans site will help you with questions about the cabinetry and other installation questions.
Sounds like a fun project!
Oh, the countertop should be an inch to an inch and a half deeper than your cabinets so you're fine there.
posted by pammo at 5:06 AM on December 5, 2007