Happiness is not in the mere possession of money; it lies in the joy of achievement, in the thrill of creative effort.

October 22, 2007 6:46 PM

Money or happiness?

I’ve recently quit my IT job. I’ve already received two job offers: one as a business analyst making slightly more than what I was making before. I’m not crazy about this position even though the offer is good. I’m just burned out on IT and want to do something different with my life.

The other is with a non profit. Trouble is, the offer is 40k less than what I’m making now. I really want to accept the non profit position because the prospect of doing something different excites me. I’ll be working with the community, the staff seems great, and the hours significantly less. However, the pay cut is bothering me. I’ve been trying to figure out why the pay cut bothers me and I can’t come up with any legitimate reasons. I’m fortunate that my husband makes enough to maintain our current lifestyle. In fact, he has given me the option of not working so it isn’t a matter of money.

Should I take the not so exciting IT job with the good pay or the opportunity to do something different?

posted by mamaquita to work & money (40 comments total)

How are the benefits with each job?
posted by ALongDecember at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2007

TAKE THE JOB YOU'LL BE HAPPIER WITH. If you don't have to worry about money because of your husband's income....I can't even figure out what the question is.
posted by tristeza at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

"I’ve been trying to figure out why the pay cut bothers me and I can’t come up with any legitimate reasons...

Losing $40K is a very legitimate reason not to take a job, don't kid yourself.
posted by 517 at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

If you have the money to survive, take the pay cut! Don't be a goof. If it will be problem, take the job you hate and see if the other place has any volunteer/part-time stuff available.
posted by GilloD at 6:56 PM on October 22, 2007

Maybe you feel like you'll lose respect with the pay cut, either in the new workplace or among your social circle. If that's the case, try to figure out whether it's a legitimate concern, and if it is, what you can do to mitigate it.
posted by amtho at 7:00 PM on October 22, 2007

Maybe the pay cut bothers you because you feel your skills are being undervalued by the offer. It's not hard to get one's professional self-worth caught up in the size of one's paycheck.

Or maybe you have more misgivings about the job than you think, and you're attaching your feelings to the low pay because it's something concrete.

Non-profit work can be challenging. The resources won't be what you're used to, and you may be called upon to do more menial work than you're used to at times--simply because there's no money for support staff. Sometimes people are surprised by how ego-driven and political non-profit offices can be too.

Maybe this is all over-thinking things, though, and you're troubled by the pay cut because $40,000 is a lot of money and will buy a lot of fun over the course of a year. If you take the job, sure, you and your husband's combined income will be enough to support the two of you, but will your lifestyle really not take a hit? Unless your husband is pulling down upward of $500,000, I can't see how it wouldn't.

So, obviously you should take the job you'd be happier with, but don't necessarily assume that these feelings about your compensation will go away. You won't be very happy if you feel that you're not getting paid what you're worth.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2007

It's extremely difficult to predict how these kinds of things will affect the quality of life. That's why this is so difficult a decision. Luckily you don't have to commit permanently to anything.

If you have the economic flexability to do it, try the non-profit. If being undervalued is driving you crazy, or it turns out that the reduced income is limiting your lifestyle worse than you had figured, quit and find another big-bux job.

This is easy for me to say because I don't have to do it. :D
posted by aubilenon at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2007

A few reasons to take the nonprofit:

-What about viewing a job as a means to acquire new skills? You stated you want out of IT, and this job would provide you the training and the opportunity to do so.

If you've already mastered the job skills for the bus analyst job, will you really learn anything that's new?

-Significantly reduced hours. You can take those hours and take other classes, learn a new hobby, try your own business if the money bothers you that much, etc.

Finally, if the cut in salary bothers you that much and you have two job offers on the table (plus another that you are leaving, at a higher salary), you can try to negotiate. At least try to negotatiate, something along the lines of, "I'm really interested in the job, but I'm a little worried about the salary. My current salary is higher and I have job offer B that offers more. But I'm really about this job, it's a better fit, blah blah blah." The new job may not be able to match the salary, but it may increase.

Good luck! Sounds like a great position to be in - two job offers at once!
posted by Wolfster at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

I've been in your position twice. Both times I went for money over happiness/time and both times I was miserable. I finally burned out entirely (advertising) and am now a personal shopper. If your husband makes a good living, take the job that will make you happy in your heart.
posted by astruc at 7:17 PM on October 22, 2007

I'm not entirely sure about hours being less, if the job is that fun you'll probably spend more time at it than that, don't you think? ;-) I'm not saying you have to spend more time at a job you enjoy, just me thinking aloud...

But in any case, it seems you've already decided for yourself - go with the job you enjoy more. You've already got a safety net provided by your husband, in any case, so the main factor that stops most people from going with what they'd love to do isn't really a consideration in your case.

I wouldn't jump so fast though - your uneasiness over the pay cut could be a sign that you're not being entirely true to your real wants. Spend a little more time on it and see if you can put your finger on what exactly bothers you about it. Talk to friends and people who know you well - they might be able to offer some perspective.

That said, I'd just like to point out that the other job offer is a perfectly legitimate choice as well, and one with its own set of benefits. What you really need to do here is spend some time and think about what each job means to you, and how they fit in with your life. It's not a unique suggestion, but I hope it helps.
posted by kureshii at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2007

Don't compare your yearly rate with a part-time job to your yearly rate with a full-time job; that's totally unfair on the part-time job and will make you make bad decisions. If you must compare rates, compare hourly rates.

Time is not money. Time is better than money. Employers know this, which is why they always pay you less than your time is worth. If you're going to make a fair comparison between a full-time job and a part-time job, calculate the effective part-time salary by adding in all the hours it frees up, costed at twice the best hourly rate you've ever been paid for anything.

If you're feeling burned out by work, and you have the choice between meh full-time work and excellent part-time work, then it seems to me that part-time is the instant, no-brainer choice.
posted by flabdablet at 7:21 PM on October 22, 2007

i would go for the nonprofit without a second thought, but it is hard to walk away from $40K. i suppose one question to ask is whether the corporate gig will bring you $40K worth of happiness.

just to toss out another way of looking at it, though: with a smaller time commitment to the nonprofit, you will have time to take classes or do freelance work in a different field. instead of money, you're compensating yourself with new skills that can increase your opportunities in the future.
posted by thinkingwoman at 7:30 PM on October 22, 2007

It is hard to get past the money factor. No matter how comfortable you are. In today's society worth is, unfortunately, valued by money first- at least by the majority of the folks you meet from day to day. If you can get past that and feel that it no longer matters then you just grew up a little bit (no matter how old you are or are not).

My vote would be to open up your self to the non-profit. See what is on the other side. If it doesn't work out it is not the end of the world. You have the rest of your life to go for the dollars but I would say to give yourself the opportunity to see what the value of doing good is.
posted by bkeene12 at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2007

It is, as others above have noted, inordinately difficult to move past money. Money equals security. It means you don't have to worry.

...but I, personally, made the money bet and thereby wasted many years of my life only to end up pissed. Happiness is more important. Listen to us when we tell you that, because we're not joking.

Really. We're not.
posted by aramaic at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2007

Money or happiness?

yes

However, I am not sure you are faced with that choice. Non-profit work is hard and pays little, and the emotional pay-off is not always as strong as you would think, at least on day to day stuff. There are moments of joy, not infrequent, and overall satisfaction, but there are lots of defeats, sad outcomes etc. YMMV.
posted by caddis at 7:44 PM on October 22, 2007

You need to figure out if the non-profit job will actually give you long-term happiness. I'm pretty sure an extra $40k/year won't, however if that salary would be enough to cover for your husband losing his work, perhaps the stability will.

Don't lie to yourself. Sure the job might be more noble, but for me that wouldn't be anywhere close to enough to counter working with jerks or on poor projects. Those things are common everywhere whether in the profit or non-profit sector.

Seriously consider your husband's third option of not working also... perhaps just for a while, or perhaps if you really like the idea of charitable work, you could volunteer part time?
posted by ggruschow at 7:47 PM on October 22, 2007

When I saw "happiness or money" I thought 'duh, happiness'. Of course it is not so simple; but the whole reason we try to achieve more than the most bare standard of living is to make ourselves happy. Money is a tool for achieving happiness. If this extra money will make you less happy, you are better off without it.

Quantifying how much happiness the money will bring in terms of things you can buy vs. how much it will take away due to job stress is tough. But think of it this way. The extra money sounds like status quo - your current state of happiness. It soudns like your net happiness will increase at the non-profit and either remain constant or decrease at the high-paying job. Therefore, take the non-profit.
posted by PercussivePaul at 7:53 PM on October 22, 2007

For me non-profit work isn't just about the high stress and the low pay, it's about the thrill of possibly catching a stray bullet in the chest, or perhaps a knife in the neck. Especially when that knife is wielded by someone you've spent 1000 grueling, low pay hours trying to help.

Who could resist?
posted by The Straightener at 7:53 PM on October 22, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

I'm going to agree with caddis, and suggest that you try to negotiate for a salary AND position you're comfortable with. Because 6 months from now when the new car smell has worn off and you can see the downsides of the new job, it's too easy to start resenting the pay cut, and start yourself on a downward spiral of hating the job prematurely.

I recommend that you do some soul searching and figure out what number you're really looking for. It should take into account some cut from your current salary since you're not the same level of expert at the new role as you were at the old one. Be prepared with two numbers, actually: the number you'd like and the number you'd still happily live with.

Then be frank with the person you're talking with at the non-profit, and tell them what you want. Be prepared to walk away if they can't give you what you want, because choosing happiness over money doesn't work if it doesn't fit your entire definition of happiness.
posted by nadise at 8:04 PM on October 22, 2007

Will making 40k extra a year mean that you can retire 5 years earlier? Will the extra time then make up for lost time now?
posted by chrisamiller at 8:04 PM on October 22, 2007

i went for the money once before. happiness wins, hands down.
posted by brandz at 8:14 PM on October 22, 2007

Research suggests that money is only correlated with happiness for people who are are at the bottom of the economic scale; once people make enough to provide for their basic needs, earnings have very little to do with their life satisfaction. Having chosen a career I love, in which I make much less moolah than I once did, I'm sometimes reminded of that when I'm around people who have more material goodies than I do and yet seem restless and consumed with thoughts of roads not taken.

Money can NEVER buy the feeling of waking up and looking forward to a day at work.
posted by itstheclamsname at 8:17 PM on October 22, 2007 [2 favorites has favorites]

Money.
posted by stewiethegreat at 9:34 PM on October 22, 2007

However, the pay cut is bothering me. I’ve been trying to figure out why the pay cut bothers me and I can’t come up with any legitimate reasons.

I think it would be really helpful for you to figure this out-- but then, you know that!

Is this a balance/power/carrying-your-own-weight thing with your husband? Are your salaries relatively similar now, and it would feel strange to have such a large disparity after the pay-cut?

Or is it just that, thanks to all the messages we get from society and culture, it somehow feels fundamentally wrong to voluntarily pass up a whole $40K a year? Because if that's it, then you can kind of sit with that feeling until you work yourself through it, until you're making a decision based on your own values and priorities and not the stuff we all internalize.

Do you have savings goals in your financial plan? Do you know concretely what difference a few years of $40K would mean? Would it mean earlier retirement or something else concrete-- or would the extra money mostly go to luxuries and extras? What is your tradeoff here? Money in and of itself means nothing, it's what it can buy. Translate the $40K into real terms when you're making your decision. Then decide what's more important to you: the whatever-it-is or the new, exciting job.

Me personally, I'd take the non-profit job in a heartbeat. Meaningful, exciting work that might be a whole new direction in my life-- and more hours of free time-- these things are huge. But that doesn't mean it's the right decision for you (although from your wording it sounds like you want it!) ... just don't let the "normal people don't just throw away an extra $40,000 a year, am I crazy?" thoughts sway the equation!
posted by EmilyClimbs at 9:56 PM on October 22, 2007

Research suggests that money is only correlated with happiness for people who are are at the bottom of the economic scale

Exactly. If you take the money job, do it for the money, not additional happiness beyond what you already have because it doesn't work that way.

Given that you're capable of making an "extra" 40k, you might have the greatest impact on the greater good (and possibly co-related happiness increase) by doing that and giving part of it away. Possibly to the non-profit? Possibly while volunteering a little free time with the non-profit as well? You need to find the right balance among these. I wouldn't write off the money job so easily, you could do a lot of good with it if you're so inclined, possibly more than by working for them directly.
posted by scheptech at 9:58 PM on October 22, 2007

40k can buy alot of happiness.
posted by Rolandkorn at 12:15 AM on October 23, 2007

Everyone I know who's made a career change that involved taking a pay cut for a non-profit job has been happy with the decision.

It's easy for me to say "take the happiness, save the world, and forget the money!," because I've only ever worked at non-profits. But seriously, if you can reconcile your feelings about the $40k pay cut, I recommend following your happiness. It'll make you, well, happier.
posted by bassjump at 6:16 AM on October 23, 2007

Well, even though it may not be popular, I'm gonna vote for the money. Have you ever worked for a non-profit? Volunteering is very different from actually working at one. Understaffed, underfunded, having your job reduced to fundraiser, and most importantly little to no interaction with the group or cause you wanted to help.

With solid IT skills there are plenty of jobs you can take that are 1) more interesting than IT 2) not evil and 3) pay ok.

Check out idealist.org, they have plenty of jobs and resources in non-profits and the public sector that you might like.

Final point: Being a "business analyst" is a lot different that your standard IT job. You may find that you like it
posted by doppleradar at 6:18 AM on October 23, 2007

The paycut won't affect your current lifestyle, so you say. What about future lifestyle? Is the $40K something you would have squirreled away for early retirement? Children's college fund? Second home in the mountains? Then decide if the pay cut is worth it.

Also, think about what it is about your old job that make you quit. Then decide if the new IT job has those elements that you hated about your old job. If it does, then don't take the job. If it doesn't, take the job. THEN volunteer at a community organization to see if it is something that you want to take on as a new career.
posted by jujube at 6:19 AM on October 23, 2007

Just wondering do you have to do one or the other? I have a buddy that is not sure on what he wants to do in the IT profession and is working 1/2 a week in support and 1/2 a week in web design and loves the variety. Is there any way you can try both and get a feel for each position? Bonus: you would still make a little more cash than just working a full week at the lower (but happier) job. Who knows you might really like the new IT job. One other option if you cant split the jobs up, maybe you can shadow someone for a day or two, get to know the crew, etc. Meeting a few people that you will spend 40+ hours with may help you decide which path to take.
posted by Mardigan at 7:20 AM on October 23, 2007

> 40k can buy alot of happiness.

Almost all the psychological research says, unless it's pulling you out of poverty, it can't.

I recommend that you read Your Money or Your Life. Regardless of your choice, it may be useful.
posted by underwater at 8:54 AM on October 23, 2007

In my experience, much of the non-profit sector is based on women taking low-paying jobs because their husbands make good salaries. I think this is exploitative and counter to helping society, although I suppose it is better than 50 years ago when women simply worked for free and wholly depended on their husbands. If you want to help a cause, do so, but consider simply volunteering in your spare time. Or earn a good salary and take sabbaticals (even if that just means quitting your job and finding a new one) every five years, so that you can volunteer full-time for a year. Financial security is important. Working at a low income means that you will receive fewer government benefits in old age. It means you will have less money available for financial crises, retirement savings and other important things. It may mean that you will face difficulty in re-entering the for-profit workforce, should you ever desire. If your husband is disabled, ill, deceased, laid off, downgraded or otherwise hampered in his earning potential, you may want to re-enter the workforce. But, because so many employers seem to think non-profit workers are flaky, getting a good private sector job may be difficult.

My concerns may not be valid all of the time. But they are valid part of the time and you should consider those points and many above before dropping $40k in salary. If your desire is to help society, you might want to explore other paid ways to do so. You might want to look at how you could otherwise structure your life. You might want to look at donating $20k a year to the charity, receiving a tax deduction, and yet still earning $20k more than you would with the non-profit job. You might want to put $20k a year into your own foundation and then use the money to support and fund projects you like.

If none of those points is important to you and you really want the job, go for it. You might even consider working there for 2 years and then going back to the private sector. It doesn't need to be a forever decision.
posted by acoutu at 9:13 AM on October 23, 2007 [2 favorites has favorites]

You might also be able to combine the two working at a place like Bridgespan, although consulting is not for everyone.
posted by doppleradar at 10:37 AM on October 23, 2007

I have picked "money," and I am a fuckload happier with it than without it. Psychological factors be damned, it is nice to be able to go out to dinner, it's nice to have a nice car and a good house, and not that I would know yet, but I bet you it's fucking crazy nice to retire early. If it really doesn't matter, dude, save your ass off for retirement and take the better job.

I think a positive attitude can go a long way in finding things you really love about the private sector, and it's possible to be happy in the high-paying job, and have the additional security/luxury/retirement/fun money that you wouldn't with the other job.
posted by mckenney at 1:59 PM on October 23, 2007

Well, is it a non-profit where you will be surrounded by scary, disturbing circumstances that will make you deeply depressed in a short time period? Are there benefits? I have a dear friend who worked at a battered women's shelter and while she loved doing it, psychologically, it was very hard on her. She became a heavy drinker and her quality of life went down considerably.

Is your marriage stable, and do you have savings put aside should your husband lose his job or your marriage collapse? Are you covered on his insurance and benefits? Do you have children or plan to have children? I can't tell any of these things by looking at your profile. I see that you're fleeing your crappy job with the "I own you" boss (yay!), but what other factors are there?

I'm only asking these things because if the non-profit is working with orphans that have AIDS or something, while you will be doing a great thing for society and people who need you desperately, you may psychologically only be able to take that job for so long.

Then again, it may be a local public transit agency (I see you are in my town, and I have worked nonprofit here myself). I know the pay is LOW for those types of jobs, especially here. I mean, I'd want to know more about your personal financial situation and your potential new job before I gave advice about this... lots of people are saying money, but if you have a wonderful marriage, no college tuitions to worry about paying for, etc., money is moot.

If you have kids within driving age/college age, no 401k, no mutual savings, and so forth, then by all means, money first.

Money can't buy happiness, this is true, but if you have, say, a year's salary in the bank JUST for yourself, you are covered for so many things... unforeseen illness, a fire destroying your house, a second honeymoon, early retirement, sponsoring a child in a poor country.

Then again, daily sanity doing a job you love is priceless. The REAL question may be: Can you always come back to this career path again after trying the non-profit on for size? I bet you can. If there is a $40,000/year difference in wages, then you are making good money in IT. Quite frankly, I'd bet you could come back in a year or two if the non-profit didn't work out; I can't imagine an employer that would look at your work history and say, "Well, you took a sabbatical from the industry to help your fellow man. You'll make a terrible employee."

Besides, a break from the IT field might cure you of the burnout. As a writer, I know what burnout feels like; it's maddening. Weigh the factors BEYOND money. Hell, the fact you worded it "money vs. happiness" in itself should be the biggest clue.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 3:09 PM on October 23, 2007

No job is forever. Try it for awhile and see if it's as happy making as you hope. If not, quit fast. If yes, stay until it stops being fun, or if money becomes an issue.

(THis leaves out all other questions concerning benefits, pension, 401K, retirement which may or may not be a problem for you.)
posted by IndigoJones at 5:08 PM on October 23, 2007

I'd just like to point out that $40k is more than I've ever been paid, period.

Here's the thing: if you don't need to work, don't. There's no reason to give your soul over to a company if you don't actually need the money.

Now, what to do with your free time? Well, really rich people often will donate their time to non-profits, so I suppose you can see what you would be doing at the non-profit as "donating" $40k per year out of the salary you would be making at some other hot shot place.

But maybe now is a good time to look into what you really would *love* to be doing, rather than what you could or should be doing? Some level of financial independence means it is time not just to do something more enjoyable, but to really tap into your childhood dreams.

You've been given a wonderful opportunity, to waste your precious time making money you don't need.
posted by Deathalicious at 3:37 AM on October 24, 2007

If it really doesn't matter, dude, save your ass off for retirement and take the better job.

This says a lot. Notice how mckenney said "better job" instead of "better-paying job"? American society has successfully equated a job that is well paid to a good job. This is exactly why you feel bad about the pay cut -- people have been trained to equate the amount of money they make with their value as a person.

Worst of all, we don't talk about it in the US. It's considered absolutely verboten to discuss salaries with another person. I've breached the subject many times with a number of people. Many of them considered themselves poor. With one or two exceptions, I made less than them, and I've never considered myself poor, although I have never felt rich either.

Because of the opacity of the salary system in the US, we always imagine that other people are more successful financially than we are, and thus "better".

In this case the better job is the non-profit. It still gives you plenty of spending money, which, because of your husband's lucrative job, is all it really needs to be. It also frees up time to do whatever you want, including freelance IT consulting which can pay very, very well if you are willing to give up your time for money.
posted by Deathalicious at 3:57 AM on October 24, 2007

to don't waste your precious time
posted by Deathalicious at 3:59 AM on October 24, 2007

Or, you know, it could have been a typo that I missed.
posted by mckenney at 7:14 AM on October 24, 2007