When all else fails...give me some direction, please?
October 19, 2007 8:43 AM   Subscribe

How do you figure out what gets in the way of your success in finding someone to date (and ultimately a long-term partner)? Long self-analysis after the break.

I've not been hitting home runs when it comes to dating and relationships. I'm a 36 year old woman with a great career in non-profit doing something extremely fulfilling, fab friends, and several fun hobbies and causes. I'm outgoing, fun, pretty, interesting, well-traveled, messy, currently overweight, pretty unfit, and overall a good catch. Nonetheless, the last long-term relationship I had began in college--it ended in 1995.

Since then I have been a one-date wonder. Or two. Or three. Even up to a few weeks! In one extreme case I even dated a man for a month. People I know well AND those I don't think this makes no sense at all.

I have a lot of explanations why things have gone as they have, but there must be something I'm missing that I can fix. That's where you come in.

Here are some of the issues I've identified.

1) Access: my field (language education and then health ed with a focus on adolescent health/sex ed/reproductive rights) is replete with women. In my current job, we have one man, who's gay. In my community interactions I find the same thing. Lots of women, a few (usually married) men, and a handful of gay men. It's been this way since I entered the working world.

2) Depression/self-esteem/body image/confidence. I'm lumping these all together for good reason. This is all mostly resolved, except for downtimes when I get into a funk, like now, when I start to think that there's no use and maybe I should give up. Historically (as in for several years after college) this was a huge barrier. Now, not really at all.

3) Hobbies--I am a birder, a gardener, and a blogger. Birding actually has quite a few men involved, which is an anomaly with regard to my other interests. But no dice, so far on the find-a-date scene. Gardening and blogging are kind of solitary, though I've met a number of (female) friends via blogging. I'm into local foods, urban homesteading, sustainable agriculture, my extremely cool neighborhood community, and political activism.

4) Faith community: n/a Even the Unitarian Universalist churches give me the willies, because I feel like a fraud, as I have NO belief in a higher being. UUs are the most accepting and diverse of the religions out there, but in my experience they still try to gently herd you toward SOME kind of belief. (This is based on several different UU communities. My point is that I'm not meeting anyone at church)

5) Friends: Married. Kids. Don't know any single men.

6) I like spending time at home, and I don't love going out. When I do go out, it's mostly to do things with people I already know. And I know a LOT of people.

Looking back on my dating history, what tends to go wrong is that for some reason either he or I realize that we're not quite having fun, aren't looking for the same things, or something along those lines, and so we split up amicably, and become friends. I seem to either feel no interest or SUCH interest that I get really caught up in the infatuation. That last thing doesn't happen very often, but it did recently and has left me a little torn up.

I know this is long, so I hope you're staying with me.

One last thing is that I don't seem drawn to the single men I meet either via internet dating or in person. My response is just meh.

People often say that if you stop looking, you'll find someone. I swear I've not looked for years, but clearly I haven't found anyone, much less THE one.

Things I've changed now--going out more, volunteering more, jumping back into internet dating, and overlooking things that had been deal-breakers in the past (mustaches, nascar, bush-lovers) in the hope that those are going to be anomalies in an otherwise perfectly reasonable partner.

My therapist thinks I'm afraid of something, but I'm not sure what. Rejection? Maybe. Getting hurt? Probably. Success? No. I'm continuing to be proactive about looking despite the fears I've identified.

I'm at a loss at this point.

Could you help me by either suggesting what else I could do, how I can figure out by myself what the issue(s) is/are, things to avoid doing, or setting me up with someone? (heh--kidding)

Thanks again!
posted by Stewriffic to Human Relations (35 answers total) 15 users marked this as a favorite
 
I've had a couple of people tell me you need to outline exactly what you are looking for--and then use it as a your guideline when shopping for a man.

Think of it like a house hunt. Write down minimum requirements/things that would be a no-go. Then all the other tertiary qualities are like a bonus. I think you can't stop looking, because if you aren't looking you can't find something.

You could take up car racing/participate in events where you volunteer to help run rally races/auto crosses. There are a ton of smart/nerdy (hopefully not a turnoff)/single guys there that have trouble meeting women because their situations are the reverse of yours. I know it sounds far fetched to start racing--for a gardener/birder--but almost everyone drives right? You would't need new equipment.
posted by rocket_johnny at 8:58 AM on October 19, 2007


Response by poster: Smart/nerdy would be a bonus!

As to the house hunt, that had been my prior approach, but I'd gotten (solicited) feed back that maybe I'm too picky. Hence my attempt at lowering my standards.
posted by Stewriffic at 9:02 AM on October 19, 2007


This sounds crass, but are you not having sex within a reasonable timeframe? Not after two dates, but in the couple-weeks timeframe. Because when I was single and I didn't get sex after four dates, I stopped seeing the girl. Some people are going to insist that's shallow, but dating takes A LOT of effort and you have to know it's going somewhere. Many guys have a cutoff point and you might be exceeding it.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:05 AM on October 19, 2007 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Oh yes, I have sex. When you go for months (or a year!) in-between, it's hard not to. Another bit of feedback I've gotten is maybe to hold off. I've not had success with that, either. Too. HARD. TO. WAIT!
posted by Stewriffic at 9:09 AM on October 19, 2007


Why not try some new hobbies that tend to have lots of guys? It seems to me you have to change your activities if you want to meet men. Rockclimbing is great to meet men (and they are always desparate for gf's that like climbing too)... bicycling (cycle clubs, that kind of thing)... golf... really any kind of adventure sport... tennis is also good. You'll get a two - for - one: get in shape and meet lots of single guys.
posted by zia at 9:11 AM on October 19, 2007


Best answer: The answer lies in '95. How'd that end and why. I think the source of your fears must come from that time.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:12 AM on October 19, 2007


I re-entered the dating scene at 31, fresh out of a 10-year marriage. After dating pretty actively for several years, I'm now happily married, to a woman I met via an online personal ad. I dated women I met via print ads, too, as well as a few met at Single Volunteers of DC events, and one or two met via friends. So I can say I have lots of adult dating experience, and have been ultimately successful at finding a long-term partner, too.

One thing I had to work out is that there are many women whom I admire, whom I feel drawn to, even that I can fall in love with, but with whom I'm completely incompatible. Liberal lawyers, human-rights activists, willowy yoga-types, oh, man, they set my heart a-flutter, but what I like to do, how I live my life, just doesn't fit with them. I tended to attract that type, too, but I eventually just had to set some hard-and-fast rules about not dating them. Sure, I know that there might have been an exception or two in there, but, time and time again, I found that the day-to-day experience of dating the yoga-instructing activist lawyer just didn't work, even if, on paper, it looked perfect.

My advice is to try to look for patterns like that. Even if the pattern doesn't make a lot of sense, try to learn from it. Make some rules for yourself, and try to stick to them. My wife has a bit of all the qualities I listed above, by the way, but not too much of any of them, and many other wonderful qualities, as well. So, no, I didn't really completely follow my own rules, and it turned out pretty darned well.
posted by MrMoonPie at 9:15 AM on October 19, 2007 [2 favorites]


You sound like the type of person a lot of MeFites might like to date. Try a meetup.

One thing to consider, at 36 many women feel their biological clock not just ticking but spinning out of control and their sense of urgency can frighten off guys who are not feeling the same way. This may or may not be you.
posted by caddis at 9:15 AM on October 19, 2007 [1 favorite]


I know you mentioned that you're in therapy already, but interactional therapy, where you focus on how you appear to others, might help a lot. It is quite possible that you're putting out some sort of vibe that's turning off other people. I was single for three years, and I got a lot of polite comments from my friends that I was "intimidating" and "intense". I ignored all of these, but in the last year I've realized that I am often perceived as aggressive, loud, and argumentative, and I don't come across as approachable. My BF doesn't care about that, but many other people do. I doubt this is your exact problem, but some insight on whether you come across as insecure, needy, boring, nervous, whatever, might help.

Honestly, though, I think the "going out with people you don't know" is the key. Meet a much higher volume of people, and your odds increase, especially group activities in mixed-gender spaces. But don't give up! I bet there is someone out there for you.
posted by alicetiara at 9:33 AM on October 19, 2007 [2 favorites]


All I can say is that I commiserate with you. I'm a guy, 32. I've been on, literally, over 120 dates or something like that in the last 7 years. I mean, first dates. Some seconds, some thirds, a couple flings, one 6 month relationship, but nothing that I was really excited about. I've met women that were really into me and I wasn't into them and vice versa. It's really hard. I don't think there is anything wrong with you or me, but I do hear the part about idiosinchratic (??) interests. I've got those too.
posted by sully75 at 9:33 AM on October 19, 2007


"One last thing is that I don't seem drawn to the single men I meet either via internet dating or in person. My response is just meh."

This is a bizarre throwaway comment. You don't like any of the single guys you meet, and then you wonder why you're not in a relationship? I'm wondering why no one is really catching your eye. Perhaps it's not casting a wider net, but a more specific one. You don't say what type of guy you're really looking for, other than the "smart/nerdy" comment.

Don't give up on internet dating - I met my fiancé there at a point where I was really reluctant to enter a relationship. We initially went out as "just friends," and the rest is history.
posted by desjardins at 9:45 AM on October 19, 2007 [1 favorite]


I sympathize with not being able to meet men through hobbies, etc.; I know my own hobbies and interests tend to attract many more women than men. I've heard similar laments from men who have interests that are largely male-centric. While it is probably worthwhile to expand your field of interests (as other posters have suggested) don't take up a hobby or activity just to meet men; not only will you be disappointed if it doesn't work out, but giving off an "I'm-here-on-the-make" vibe is a turnoff. By all means take up rock-climbing, biking, etc. but do that for love of the activity, not just as a way to meet men.

Do you have a coffee shop near you? Becoming a regular at your local Starbucks or wherever can be a way to meet others.

Online dating sounds like a great option for you, especially given that you don't seem to have much opportunity to meet eligibles through the work-and-hobbies channel. I know several women who have met their husbands online and are very happy.

Re "lowering your standards:" While it's not good to be picky, it's also not good to be too un-picky either. Mustaches are one thing, because facial hair doesn't affect lifestyle compatibility. But if someone is, say, a big Bush supporter, consider whether their outlook on life and values are compatible enough with yours. You don't want to settle for someone who is so very different from you in every way that it's a great struggle to make the relationship work at all.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:59 AM on October 19, 2007


Best answer: Hey, did I write this? I could well have and I wish I had a better answer for you, but I don't and I'm starting to think it comes down to geography and luck more than people want to admit. That, and, well, you're not alone. The only semi successful relationship I've had in the last five years was someone I knew from 500 miles away and I'm beginning to admit the possibility that there just is noone in my immediate geographic area, which sucks, because I have no plans to move. Hmmm, after checking your profile, I discover that you live in NC too. There are no men here.

Also like you, I work for nonprofits and that does dramatically limit the pool. And then I think, too, that it's a lot like being unemployed: the longer you're single, the harder it is to meet people or date. You fall out of the habit and then start getting desperate on a subconscious level, which makes people uncomfortable. That turns into a horrible Catch-22 loop, because the only way to get the desperation out of your system is to start seeing someone and. . and. . you know the rest.

So, here are a couple of possible strategies for both of us.

1. Weekend job at Home Depot/Lowes. I like guys who build things, so I thought this would be a great way to meet them. I haven't done it and I probably won't, because I just don't actually have time, alas.

2. Go volunteer / cohost with local Drinking Liberally/Move On chapter. Warning: I tried this and it bombed. The majority of the political types in this town are over 50 and/or married. YMMV and a larger city might have a wider range of people. On the plus side, I met a lot of new friends through DL. Oh, and a friend of mine tried volunteering with Habitat for Humanity - it was all women hoping to meet men. Again, YMMV. The idea is to get involved with stuff/social causes you already approve of - that way you're not awkwardly faking an interest in Nascar or something.

3. Speed Dating. Yes, I'm actually going to do this. At worst it's anecdote fodder and I don't have any luck at all, never have had, with internet dating (what happens with me is we get along great via email, but when we meet there is no chemistry,) so perhaps the actual up front reality of it all will help. They seem to have it everywhere and yeah it sounds hokey, but what do we have to lose, after all? There are probably other old fashioned (i.e., not online) dating type services around where you are. Might as well try them.

4. Large rubber mallet, dark alley - OK, there is no 4. But again, remember that you are SO not alone; there are a lot of single women like you out there. The trick is not to let us angst
posted by mygothlaundry at 10:11 AM on October 19, 2007 [3 favorites]


I was wondering if I wrote this post in my sleep or something.....girl, I hear you.

For those of you recommending online dating (which, I am a huge fan of, and old hand at, and currently too depressed by to re-enter)...can anyone recommend dating sites for women over 35 (like,k 35-45 or so)? So many of them seem so young to me now, I don't even bother anymore. Even though I fear it's the only hope for a single woman who's 37 and won't rock climb.
posted by tristeza at 10:12 AM on October 19, 2007


By which I mean the trick is not to get all angsted out about how hideously unattractive we are, because we really, really aren't. It's truly circumstances more than anyone ever wants to admit.
posted by mygothlaundry at 10:14 AM on October 19, 2007


Best answer: As someone who was single for a long time and only just got married at 44, all I can say is that you have to truly love yourself first. You have to be living your life, doing the things you want to do, not to meet a man or put yourself out there, but just to live your life to the fullest. Maybe you'll meet him, maybe you won't but in the meantime, there are a lot of important and interesting things to be involved in. What those things are will be different for everyone.

The older I got, the less that "dating" seemed to work for me. I'd find myself sizing him up, as soon as we met, trying to figure out if he had the qualities I wanted, if I could see myself spending the rest of my life with him. That doesn't work. You can't get to know someone, really know them, on a first date, and you can't make a snap decision like that, based on the superficialities that you see when you first meet someone.

My husband is on the shorter side, with a gorgeous bald head and bright blue eyes. To me he is the handsomest, smartest man in the world and he's ten feet tall. When we first met, through work, I thought he was kind of cute but I never thought of him as a potential mate. He was right under my nose for quite awhile before I really got to know him and understand what makes him so great - not just his looks, but his mind, his heart and his soul. I could/would not have seen this if we'd gone on a few dates. I just would have mentally crossed him off - "only 5'8", bald, no graduate degree". The more I got to know him as a person, the better he started to look to me.

I think what I'm saying is, take a really good look around at the people you come into contact with every day. Not just the date-able ones but everyone. Look for the qualities you admire - kindness, cleverness, or whatever those qualities might be for you. Really practice and make a habit of looking for the best in everyone and meanwhile, love yourself and your life. Do all the things on your list. Expand your hobbies and activities - not to meet a man but to more fully live life.

Love yourself.
posted by Kangaroo at 10:25 AM on October 19, 2007 [10 favorites]


Stewriffic two things:

1) Kinda unrelated -- try the Quakers. They're so cool it's crazy. I'm legend for my paraphrasing but to me, Quakerism is like Buddhism for beginners.

2) You already know what to do to solve your dating dilemna. You do this already where "x" is books, or clothing, or TV shows, or a good piece of writing etc. This too shall be long - sorry [ grin ]. I'm using clothing because I like clothes:D
**

For clothing, you go out with a list of what you need -- maybe an outfit for a specific event or the pieces that will complete your wardrobe. You plot out the stores, the amount you'll spend, and a plan of attack that would make Patton weep with envy. And then you're on your way to the mall and some thrift store your eye. Maybe you reach the mall and in the storefront of a store not on your list because their target market does not include you is an outfit that makes you pause.

At both stores you find an outfit that you're inspired to put on and... It's wonderful. It looks good on you, makes you feel good, you want to buy 100 versions of it so you'll always have this outfit. You couldn't have described this outfit before today because this outfit wasn't even on your horizon -- you didn't know it existed. It's the holy grail of your closet -- you get a saleslady to take a pic of you with your camera phone so you can send it to all your friends -- you want to prance around the store in this outfit because you've never felt this good, never looked this good, been this good.

Does this outfit fulfill every requirement on your list (which was an excellent list by the way) -- no. There's somethings you'll still have to find elsewhere and that's okay. A lot of the requirements on the list don't matter anymore -- you included them in the first place because they seemed likely to give you what you want. You were making concessions for your awkward figure -- mainstream clothing didn't fit it very well but hey, it's either work it or go naked (and it's no fun going naked if you have to). But now, ohmigod -- what you suspected (ever so secretly) was true. The world has too many people for there not to be clothing drawn for your figure, your style. Why a secret suspicion? Because all you hear from others is that this is the way the world is and frankly, when the whole world is saying the same thing, it's hard not to listen.

It doesn't matter now. All the bad outfits before this doesn't matter. All the money you've spent on clothes that just weren't right -- it's actually well spent because it got you here, in this store, trying on the outfit that makes you a goddess. The reason you gave the outfit a try was because at first glance it had something you knew you liked and nothing that you disliked (firsthand -- not your expectations of likes and dislikes). It felt like it could be kinda right. Not for any reason you could articulate, but hey.

It's okay if you find some small issue with the outfit later -- maybe it has a dirty spot, maybe everything but the bust is perfect. Actually, if you have a problem with the outfit, it's great -- because now when you go shopping for another outfit, you know, down to your bones, what looks good on you. And since the universe managed to throw it your way once, hell, it'll probably happen again. And it's good because you know what to look for and shopping is now fun. And if it takes years -- eh. It's easy waiting because now you know that outfit and similar are out there. Yes, there will be times that you'll just want to join a nunnery so you don't have to worry about clothes because every thing you try on is so. Not. Right. Throw the tantrum. Embrace the feeling. It is annoying, frustrating, disheartening. Take a break. Styles change, old clothing moves out, new clothing moves in, and when you go back to try your hand at shopping it'll be a completely new terrain.

****

This is what people mean when they say don't be so picky (screw lowering your standards -- you know what you don't like. think about what you could like) and to stop looking (actively searching for an item means you have an idea of what it'll look like so you save time by ignoring everything that doesn't look like it). Once you know what you want, look to your heart content. You won't second-guess yourself or beat yourself up for potentially making the wrong choice.

Replace the outfit with "your future SO" and the mall and shopping with all the choices you have in the world of dating. You already know this thought process works (for clothes, writing, etc.).

I know how you feel. I'm single but I'm also happy. It took me a while (whole lotta bitching too) to get here and a lot of reading and it's cool.

3 awesome authors:
Cheri Huber One and Two
On acceptance

Jamie Callan
On Holding out for what you want personally

Peter McWilliams
It's warm and fuzzy.

And for putting clothing to poetry, The Dress A Day Blog.
posted by whitneykitty at 10:51 AM on October 19, 2007 [1 favorite]


I realized something about myself a few years ago. Maybe it applies to you: in the context of dating, I don't like meeting new people. I know that sounds really odd, and I'll explain in a second. But let me first state that I WOULD enjoy meeting two people if I enjoyed CASUAL dating. But I've never been interested in that. From the time I was 16, what I wanted was a long-term relationship. I'm so glad that I have one now and am out of the dating pool. Lucky me.

Anyway, the things I most enjoy in a relationship are the things you only get after it's been going on for a long time. I'm not so into the thrill of getting to know someone. I'm into the thrill of a huge body of shared experiences. I only really have fun when I get to that stage where my partner and I like one mind. When we have a zillion in-jokes, etc.

I think there are quite a few people like me (though we're probably in a minority), but I don't think there's much (any?) literature about us.

In any case, what's worked for me is dating friends. My scenario is the opposite of yours. You date them first and then become friends. I become friends with them first and then date. And I sometimes put a year into the friendship before it turns into a romantic relationship. When we've become REALLY close friends -- only then am I ready for the romance.

I guess there's a sense where this could go wrong. You could spent all that time befriending someone, only to have it never blossom into a romance. But I don't look at that as "going wrong," because I don't get in it for romance in the first place. I get in it for friendship. And if the romance never happens, at least I have a good friend.

(Admittedly, that's a somewhat idealized version of what my reality used to be. But that's because I didn't really understand the dynamic at the time. I was living it without getting it. Now that I get it, I'm attached. But if I was single again, knowing my personality type, that's how I'd operate.)

So -- if you're at all like me -- I'm suggesting a modified version of "don't look for romance, because it only comes when you're not looking." I'm suggesting that you don't look for romance, but you do look for friendship. That you work to find new (single) friends. If you use Craigslist, try "Strictly Platonic" instead of w4m. Etc.

By the way, I think these friendship-to-romance relationships often (not always, of course) follow this course: mutual friendship, one person develops a crush, the other just wants to be friends... after a long period (assuming the one with the crush isn't pushy), the other person develops a crush too.

I bring this up because the standard wisdom is that if you have a crush on someone and they don't reciprocate, move on. Since most people DO move on, they don't find out what might have happened had they stayed. But "staying" means committing to be "just friends."
posted by grumblebee at 11:05 AM on October 19, 2007 [6 favorites]


Best answer: I have to sympathize with stewriffic and mygothlaundry, as I am in the same situation in NC. Mygothlaundry had it right in saying that there is a tremendous luck + geography component in terms of nerdy hetero men density, and we are not in a nerdy hetero men-dense area.

Continue with the online dating, though I do understand how snoozifying many of the "matches" are. In my case, I get tons of NASCAR dudes, which, okay. I am nerdy and liberal. Unlikely.

I think you sound really healthy and I don't think you are doing anything wrong. Though I have been described by others, as it sounds like you have, as somehow actively participating in repelling relationships, I think luck has so much more to do with it. People conclude that we are "commitmentphobic," as I have often been described, because we don't want to get into relationships with people we aren't excited about. I don't think it is fair to do so, for yourself OR the other person.

People will try to convince you that you don't "love yourself enough" yet, as though there is some kind of nirvana or qualifying that goes on before the universe grants you the right to a relationship. Nope. I don't subscribe to the idea that I have to pass some kind of self-actualization test before being in a relationship, and looking around at married people, I have evidence that is, indeed, not the case. I'm fortunate that my married girlfriends openly admit that sheer luck brought them their S.O.'s, both the ones met IRL and online.

I think the important thing to understand is that everyone's life has a different path, and not everyone's road has the same markers, scenery, or even pavement. I appreciate my own unique path while putting myself in situations, like you are, where I am able to meet people. I think you are doing the right things. The time will come when it comes, and life is so awesome already.

That being said, I know you would like suggestions, and here is mine: I expanded my online search area and have met several very good fits on the West coast and in Europe. In expanding the geographical possibilities, I met guys with whom I was very compatible. If relocation happens, it happens. Just a thought.

Another thought: I travel for work and have met people that way. Are there any male-heavy fields related to your nonprofit? You could attend conferences or workshops, and it is nice to meet people in professional situations in that it reduces the potential scuz factor.

Good luck to you, and you are so not alone.
posted by frumious bandersnatch at 11:10 AM on October 19, 2007 [5 favorites]


Response by poster: Wow, thanks so far, guys.

a) I'm clearly not alone,and
b) maybe just maybe I should MOVE!

Calling all single Mefi men, there is a glut of available, interesting women in North Carolina!

Specific responses:

Why men I meet don't seem to catch my eye: This is a really good point, because I'm not sure. I have no idea. I met a guy last night when I was volunteering at the State Fair, in the sustainable ag booth, and he was good-looking enough, but there was no chemistry. I rarely find the chemistry. That's what I guess I mean.

When I said lowering my standards, I meant basically what whitneykitty and others are getting at. Not making assumptions, and not judging people based on first, second or third impressions.

The concrete suggestions are awesome, and I'll look into the ones (speed dating, conferences, coffeeshops, making sure to meet new people, etc) that seem not too out of character. There was a meetup in Chapel Hill some time ago, but I was still lurking and didn't get up the courage to go.

whitneykitty: I know Erin from Dress A Day. She wrote up a Language Log post based on a blog entry I did. She's from NC, is also a linguist (my formal training, which I've abandoned because--HATE), and is friends with the guy I dated for a month two years ago. Fab blog that woman has.

Sully75, how YOU doin', Mr. Sustainable Homestead who has the same problem I do?
posted by Stewriffic at 11:35 AM on October 19, 2007


Response by poster: Oh, and 1995...I'll look back on that more in detail. It was a bad time in my life, for sure.
posted by Stewriffic at 11:45 AM on October 19, 2007


Best answer: I'd find myself sizing him up, as soon as we met, trying to figure out if he had the qualities I wanted, if I could see myself spending the rest of my life with him. That doesn't work. You can't get to know someone, really know them, on a first date, and you can't make a snap decision like that, based on the superficialities that you see when you first meet someone.

This is really good insight. My fiancé was lacking several of the things on my supposedly must-have list. He didn't finish his degree. He's much more politically conservative. He doesn't have a hairy chest. And this is why I just went out with him as friends first. My bar for friendship is lower than my bar for romance. I didn't know that it would develop into romance, but it did. Part of it was that I let myself be romanced.

Sexual chemistry happens on the first date, and if that's all you were after, you probably wouldn't be posting. Romantic chemistry often takes more time to develop, as grumblebee pointed out. Look for guys who don't have red flags - no substance abuse, no arrest record, no baby mama drama, no physically repulsive habits - and with whom you at least have an interest in conversation. That's a baseline for a possible friendship. Physical attraction and emotional bonding can come later.

Oh, and you're not stuck in NC, you know, unless you have kids/elderly parents keeping you there. I had a long distance relationship for about a year before we moved in together. At times it sucked, and initially I was very reluctant, but I would have missed out on a Good Thing.
posted by desjardins at 12:02 PM on October 19, 2007 [2 favorites]


So wait, is there some sort of nerdy, sexy man Nirvana land that I'm missing? 'Cuz I'd pack now! No, Stewrrific, you're not alone.

I do think it simply becomes a bit more difficult as you get older. I know my tolerance for bullshit at 37 is slim to none...and slim just caught the Greyhound.

I don't know about you all but when I look back at all the time, money and effort I've spent on dating websites, it simply makes me sad. It was all for nothing.

I think actively getting out and living your life, for yourself, is the best way to go about meeting someone. Although, I'm still waiting for it to actually work for me.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 12:26 PM on October 19, 2007 [2 favorites]


Oh...and let me pipe in on one more thing: wait on the sex. Yes, I know, I know. It's tough...But when you're puttin' out and it turns sour, it just feels ...worse, if you've invested sexually.
I know there are plenty of men who won't go beyond Date 3 without sex but you don't want those anyway. I don't think a month, six weeks, is an unreasonable amount of time to get to know someone before you get physical. And this is coming someone who is basically ...well...a slut.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 12:48 PM on October 19, 2007 [6 favorites]


Lots of good advice here. I'd just like to point out 2 things:
1. there are lots of guys in very male-oriented professions (basically anything technical) with very male-oriented interests. They have the same problem that you have. Plenty of those guys on mefi I'd think. Yes, go the a meetup.
2. chemistry is, in my opinion, about being yourself, being a bit childish, having fun, being a bit of an animal. Some people exude this in spades within minutes, some people suppress that aspect or need more time to let find that connection. It's much easier to find that when being focused on a common activity probably.
So, to conclude, there are lots of guys out there. Quite a lot of them you could connect with. Have fun!
posted by jouke at 1:18 PM on October 19, 2007


Just a further note on meeting people online: Several of the happily-married women I know have husbands from other countries. One woman married and moved to her husband's country (don't know if this is an option for you) and the others' husbands moved here. For whatever reason, I know a lot of US women who have British or continental European SO's! My point is that the Internet has opened up avenues for meeting people who may have been geographically unavailable in the past but who are otherwise perfectly compatible with you.

And, seconding the idea that if you don't have family or kid commitments tying you to the area, and you can pretty easily find a job in your field elsewhere, you might want to move. According to the Census Bureau, the Western states have more single men than women. Perhaps it's time to "go west, young woman?"
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:50 PM on October 19, 2007


Best answer: Oh...and do NOT date NASCAR fans. No, I don't know you but things simply can't be that bad yet.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 3:11 PM on October 19, 2007 [2 favorites]


You are not alone!
I am not alone!
This thread makes me feel all kinds of better, just to know I'm not the only one.

I wish I had an answer. I guess the only one I have is that sometimes the pat explanations you'll hear from your well-meaning but clueless friends just don't fit. People being people there isn't always a generalization that can be made. Attraction is so individual... some of us are totally worthy but just haven't won on the roulette wheel yet. I hope this means when we do it will be so worth it.

grumblebee: By the way, I think these friendship-to-romance relationships often (not always, of course) follow this course: mutual friendship, one person develops a crush, the other just wants to be friends... after a long period (assuming the one with the crush isn't pushy), the other person develops a crush too.

I bring this up because the standard wisdom is that if you have a crush on someone and they don't reciprocate, move on. Since most people DO move on, they don't find out what might have happened had they stayed. But "staying" means committing to be "just friends."


Grumblebee, I really like that you said this. It almost seems meant for me. You replied to an anon post I once made that read a lot like this one we're posting in now (called something like "Am I too awesome?") and your thoughts on this subject have always been very thought-provoking and empathetic, and I appreciate that.

The reason this snip caught my eye is because I'm at that crossroads with someone I adore and I don't know if I should just abandon it. But my heart tells me I want his friendship, and that if love developed down the line, it would be so, so, so amazing.

Sometimes it seems like everyone else sees all matters of the heart in black and white, like DTMFA or whatever. I firmly believe that exceptions and grey areas exist and if I'm too severe with my rules and ideas of how people should behave then I will miss out on a lot of wonderful humanity. Thank you for being one voice that agrees.
posted by loiseau at 3:35 PM on October 19, 2007 [3 favorites]


Response by poster: My continued thanks to you all...

I'd LOVE to move abroad. I've lived in Spain a couple of times, speak near-native Spanish, could get my French up to par in a couple of months if I were immersed, and am confident enough in my language-learning skills that I'd have no problem adapting quickly.

I'd consider a move, but probably not unless I had something pretty special established before going. I don't have anything tying me down here other than an enormous social network I've built from scratch since I moved down here in 1996 for grad school. That's a pro and a con, in a way--my friends joke that they can't take me out without me running into 1,2,3 people I know. Have I met everyone there is to meet?? (No, but it feels that way.)

I've considered moving back to my hometown, despite its Amway-ness and cold weather, because there I'd have all of my family around. I've not taken the plunge though, and Michigan has a horrid economy. I don't really love Grand Rapids, either.

So if I were to go about looking for someone in a farther-away land, how would you recommend I begin THAT search? I'm willing.
posted by Stewriffic at 4:55 PM on October 19, 2007


If you speak French well, move to Montreal so we can commiserate over beer and poutine!
posted by loiseau at 7:16 PM on October 19, 2007


Not looking only works if you're in an environment conducive to meeting men. Like a dating site. It doesnt matter if 99% of men are 'meh' you're putting yourself in the wind for the 1%
but you have to be there. so maybe you have to try it with 100 1percents before you find the right one. Dating is the law of numbers. talk to 000s meet 00s date 0s find 1
The more discerning/individual you are the longer it might take. You seem analytical like me, in order to analyze you need data, in order to get data you need to do it, whether its working or not. Not working is just as useful because you can start to see relationships between what ppl say and dont say and how they are.

You gotta have faith that it'll work in the end.
posted by browolf at 3:37 AM on October 21, 2007


One last thing is that I don't seem drawn to the single men I meet either via internet dating or in person. My response is just meh.

I wonder if grumblebee's excellent comment above sheds any light on this?

I mention this because that comment resonated very strongly with me, and I experience a similar sort of "meh" feeling over pretty much every potentially eligible date I ever come across. In fact, the extreme depth of this meh-ness is, I think, directly related to what grumblebee put into a nutshell, about liking deeper, long-term connections with people, but not liking meeting new people, and not being particularly effective at working out how to jump the chasm that separates the new stranger-turned-acquaintance, from the significant players in one's life.

If you've ever been a long-term serial monogamist, and if you cultivate similarly long-term platonic friendships with members of your preferred gender, then it's possible that you find (as I do) the inherent speed, desperation, shallowness & poor reward-for-effort of dating to be enough of a turnoff that you either avoid dating altogether, or else you give off enough of a whiff of "I was bored before I even began" that your dates pick up on this & jump ship...?

Plenty of people seem OK at negotiating the grey areas wherein one invests increasingly more in new people in one's life, but people in the camp that I (and, I think, grumblebee) inhabit are more black-and-white in their distinctions between acquaintances & real friends or lovers, and there's really no secret chart that maps out for others how to get to the other side.
posted by UbuRoivas at 12:18 AM on October 22, 2007 [1 favorite]


I could have written this post a year ago...but then I found Mr 26.2. Actually, he found me.

My only suggestion is to stop putting so many eggs in chemistry's basket. Chemistry doesn't always slap you in the face when you first meet someone. Sometimes it takes awhile to build.

Stop tossing out men who don't immediately curl your toes. Spend some time getting to know them. You might be surprised.
posted by 26.2 at 2:13 AM on October 23, 2007


I wish I had an answer for you, but I do have some points that I think may be useful to analytical types.

I think what you are asking is a common human issue. It doesn't have a name yet, but I think it's called "Why Am I Still Single?" People ask me and I ask myself why I'm still single.

While I believe that every path is different, I believe that there are a few coherent responses to that issue. The two theories in this thread that I think have some consensus around them are "love thyself" and "friends first."

There might be a couple other straightforward responses, and every useful comment will be a rehash of those theories.
posted by philosophistry at 8:06 AM on October 23, 2007


Response by poster: Yeah...I think I'm going to try to stop sizing men up from the get-go about their worthiness/potential/possibility mate-wise. I'm also going to work on cultivating friendships with males, keeping the ulterior motives away as best as I can. That's going to take some re-framing, I think, as well as finding the "where and how" of meeting new men.

I've got the "love thyself" down pretty well. Not perfectly, of course. But the "friends first" mantra is going to be the main goal now.
posted by Stewriffic at 10:30 AM on October 24, 2007 [1 favorite]


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