Should I bother with the make-up?
October 11, 2007 10:01 AM
What are the benefits of "dressing-up"? I am female, in my 40s, professional in a fairly casual office. Make-up, hair-dos, and other markers of being more dressed up seems like a waste of time. What (if any) are the benefits of being more dressed up that would make it worth the time/cost/effort?
When I don't have to interact with the public, I wear jeans and tee-shirts. Occasionally, when I have to interact with the major higher-ups, I get out the suit. Most of the time, though, I wear what most people would call "dressy casual." Oxford shirts and khakis, sweater sets and dress pants, etc. Admittedly, though, my button-down shirts are usually not ironed and I wear them untucked. I also never wear make-up. My hair gets towel dried, and is usually mostly dry by them time I get to the office. It gets cut twice a year, to get rid of the split ends. The office I work in is casual, and most people wear clothes similar in the level of dressiness (oxford shirt and khakis, sweater in the winter, polo shirt/tee-shirt in summer). There is a spectrum, though, and I am on the "less-dressy" side of it, though still well within the norm. There are people who dress up more than I do, and I'm wondering if there might be tangible benefits to being dressed up more that would make it worth the time and effort? In my 20s, I did bother with the make-up and dressing up more formally because I looked so young and dressing up made me feel more secure and gave me more c readability, especially in the eyes of older white males. Now that I'm older and pretty much look my part, am I losing anything by not bothering? I know some people really enjoy the way they look when they have make up on and have the hair done a certain way, and it gives them self-assurance, etc., but that's not me. For me, it really is a bother. The time and the expense of having to buy the stuff, use the stuff, dry clean the suit, etc etc. is something I don't want to do.
So, are there any benefits of being more dressed up that would make it worth the time/cost/effort? Thanks for your answers and sorry for the long explanation.
When I don't have to interact with the public, I wear jeans and tee-shirts. Occasionally, when I have to interact with the major higher-ups, I get out the suit. Most of the time, though, I wear what most people would call "dressy casual." Oxford shirts and khakis, sweater sets and dress pants, etc. Admittedly, though, my button-down shirts are usually not ironed and I wear them untucked. I also never wear make-up. My hair gets towel dried, and is usually mostly dry by them time I get to the office. It gets cut twice a year, to get rid of the split ends. The office I work in is casual, and most people wear clothes similar in the level of dressiness (oxford shirt and khakis, sweater in the winter, polo shirt/tee-shirt in summer). There is a spectrum, though, and I am on the "less-dressy" side of it, though still well within the norm. There are people who dress up more than I do, and I'm wondering if there might be tangible benefits to being dressed up more that would make it worth the time and effort? In my 20s, I did bother with the make-up and dressing up more formally because I looked so young and dressing up made me feel more secure and gave me more c readability, especially in the eyes of older white males. Now that I'm older and pretty much look my part, am I losing anything by not bothering? I know some people really enjoy the way they look when they have make up on and have the hair done a certain way, and it gives them self-assurance, etc., but that's not me. For me, it really is a bother. The time and the expense of having to buy the stuff, use the stuff, dry clean the suit, etc etc. is something I don't want to do.
So, are there any benefits of being more dressed up that would make it worth the time/cost/effort? Thanks for your answers and sorry for the long explanation.
Oh my gosh, I think I fell into a fugue state and posted the above anonymous AskMe. Seriously, I have the same question. I dress up for the Board, opposing counsel, some clients. I do think that dressing up provides some authority in those contexts. In my day job, I already have authority based on my role and work and relationships, so I haven't found an upside. So I dress with jeans and shirts and strangers think I'm much younger than 42.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 10:07 AM on October 11, 2007
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 10:07 AM on October 11, 2007
What needs to be done is a cost/benefit analysis. For each thing you could do to improve your appearance, you need to ask yourself- what is the benefit of doing this? And what is the drawback of not doing it? If doing something will make you look drastically more put together, then it might be worth doing. For example, when you say: Admittedly, though, my button-down shirts are usually not ironed and I wear them untucked, the first word that comes to my mind is, "Sloppy". Making sure your clothes are wrinkle free and worn correctly (whether or not tucking in is required really depends on the outfit) will give the impression that you care about your appearance. And I think that's where the value comes in- I don't like wearing suits, but I wear one when one is required because it makes me look like I'm a professional (haha, if they only knew!). On the other hand, past a certain point, I think the law of diminishing returns applies. If you, for example, wear a little blush, a little mascara, and tinted lip gloss to work, I don't think adding foundation, eyeshadow, eyeliner, concealor and lipstick is going to be worth the extra effort.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:11 AM on October 11, 2007
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:11 AM on October 11, 2007
Honestly, I think that "take you more seriously" is invoked more than genuinely applies. If you're new, want to be promoted by someone who doesn't grasp your value or know you, or belong to a large office where you stand out for dressing down, that advice applies.
I'm in my office in jeans at the moment, albeit attired nicely otherwise (hair, makeup, the "corporate jewelry" that I actually prefer). My boss is in the office next door, and he could care less so long as I'm not coming in attired in something that is in disrepair or displays similar signs of not caring. Frankly, he's happy that I get my job done and keep our clients happy.
posted by Arch1 at 10:15 AM on October 11, 2007
I'm in my office in jeans at the moment, albeit attired nicely otherwise (hair, makeup, the "corporate jewelry" that I actually prefer). My boss is in the office next door, and he could care less so long as I'm not coming in attired in something that is in disrepair or displays similar signs of not caring. Frankly, he's happy that I get my job done and keep our clients happy.
posted by Arch1 at 10:15 AM on October 11, 2007
Actually, that should be "couldn't care less", isn't it?
posted by Arch1 at 10:16 AM on October 11, 2007
posted by Arch1 at 10:16 AM on October 11, 2007
My husband's office is professional/technical but extremely casual. He wore shorts and t-shirts to work most days. And wondered why after several years he seemed to have stalled professionally.
When he started putting in the consistent effort to be on the dressier side of his office's spectrum (nice jeans or khakis, collared shirts; never t-shirts, never trainers), he immediately began receiving more attention from management, invitation to apply for promotions, invitation to exclusive leadership courses, etc. His peers began deferring to him more often, seeking his advice more.
He thinks that putting more effort into looking nice made people start taking him more seriously at work, and respect him more as professional.
I also believe that there was a self-fulfilling prophecy at work; when you dress like the leadership, you begin to subconsciously equate and associate yourself with the leadership.
So, one could argue that dressing to the higher end of the spectrum at work does affect how others perceive a person... but I also think it likely affects how one thinks of oneself, whether one is cognizant of it or not.
I also think that for women in particular, as unfair as it is*, a little more time on hair and makeup makes us look more polished, more done -- which translates into "more professionally attired." But, as TPS pointed out, there's a difference between a five-minute makeup routine and a full face. I can do a nice sheer lipstick, earrings, and a wee bit of eye makeup in the parking lot before I walk in. It doesn't have to be a major addition to the morning routine.
* I guess a man could argue that it's unfair to him -- since a woman at least has the option of adding a five-minute makeup routine to add professionalism to her appearance, whereas he has to make do with merely clothes.
posted by pineapple at 10:27 AM on October 11, 2007
When he started putting in the consistent effort to be on the dressier side of his office's spectrum (nice jeans or khakis, collared shirts; never t-shirts, never trainers), he immediately began receiving more attention from management, invitation to apply for promotions, invitation to exclusive leadership courses, etc. His peers began deferring to him more often, seeking his advice more.
He thinks that putting more effort into looking nice made people start taking him more seriously at work, and respect him more as professional.
I also believe that there was a self-fulfilling prophecy at work; when you dress like the leadership, you begin to subconsciously equate and associate yourself with the leadership.
So, one could argue that dressing to the higher end of the spectrum at work does affect how others perceive a person... but I also think it likely affects how one thinks of oneself, whether one is cognizant of it or not.
I also think that for women in particular, as unfair as it is*, a little more time on hair and makeup makes us look more polished, more done -- which translates into "more professionally attired." But, as TPS pointed out, there's a difference between a five-minute makeup routine and a full face. I can do a nice sheer lipstick, earrings, and a wee bit of eye makeup in the parking lot before I walk in. It doesn't have to be a major addition to the morning routine.
* I guess a man could argue that it's unfair to him -- since a woman at least has the option of adding a five-minute makeup routine to add professionalism to her appearance, whereas he has to make do with merely clothes.
posted by pineapple at 10:27 AM on October 11, 2007
Interesting timing on this question. This story addressed the idea late yesterday:
"Being overweight or sloppily dressed is worse for your career than being a poor performer. I'm not saying this is fair, I'm saying it's true. So manage your weight, and manage the image you project at work, and you'll do wonders for your career."
posted by jbickers at 10:32 AM on October 11, 2007
"Being overweight or sloppily dressed is worse for your career than being a poor performer. I'm not saying this is fair, I'm saying it's true. So manage your weight, and manage the image you project at work, and you'll do wonders for your career."
posted by jbickers at 10:32 AM on October 11, 2007
Your appearance influences the way people think about you. If you dress like a leader or a professional, people will be inclined to think of you as one.
To contradict Arch1, this actually applies whether or not your colleagues/clients know you and your concrete accomplishments. When a professional comes to work dressed as a slob, they are judged, both consciously and subconsciously by those around them.
That said, if you hate "dressing up" it might not really be worth it to you. That's your judgement. (Personally, I like dressing up!)
posted by Count Ziggurat at 10:36 AM on October 11, 2007
To contradict Arch1, this actually applies whether or not your colleagues/clients know you and your concrete accomplishments. When a professional comes to work dressed as a slob, they are judged, both consciously and subconsciously by those around them.
That said, if you hate "dressing up" it might not really be worth it to you. That's your judgement. (Personally, I like dressing up!)
posted by Count Ziggurat at 10:36 AM on October 11, 2007
I'm definitely a T-shirt and jeans fellow, but for some reason I always feel more motivated and productive when I'm more dressed up than I want to be.
Which is weird, because I totally recognize what a hollow and arbitrary motivation this is. Maybe I just feel more decidedly "at work" when I'm not in my "own time" costume.
posted by Rykey at 10:36 AM on October 11, 2007
Which is weird, because I totally recognize what a hollow and arbitrary motivation this is. Maybe I just feel more decidedly "at work" when I'm not in my "own time" costume.
posted by Rykey at 10:36 AM on October 11, 2007
Hi, you might as well be me. I still pretty much don't wear make-up except for very specific instances, but I've at least come to understand the dress-up world enough to figure out when to make the effort. I'm also a slob and so I tend to not like to have clothes that are too fancy because I am likely to spill food or get dirt on them. I don't own a suit. I do own a few dresses that look good on me but I almost feel like a crossdresseer when I wear them, even though I'm female.
My sister is dressy, she likes to be well put together even if she's dressing casual. This includes makeup, jewelry, clothes that fit and decent shoes, jackets and other accessories. From a long time hanging out with her, with me dressed like me, I notice differences in how we're received. People seem to take her seriously, see her as more professional, even more knowledgeable when that's not always the case. Guys flirt with her more, she gets fewer prickly responses. I think sometimes people think Im a lesbian because of my dressed-downedness and while it sucks that people would act negatively towards me because of that, it's also the reality of some of my interactions.
I've decided that, for people who dress up (or people who appreciate it) there's a certain amount of respect implied with dress-up behavior but it's not about wearing heels and makeup or being femme-y. I get a lot of mileage out of things like wearing jewlery (any sort) and a watch, paying attention to things like socks, fingernails and general "kemptness" and having my hair look decent. Since part of what I do for work is public speaking and working with the public and I get paid to do that, I like to look like I've made an effort and that my presence has value. This does not mean looking how people want me to per se, but being a good version of how I want to look, whatever that is.
Other things that I think you can do that matter but aren't "dress-up" per se include decent skin/tooth care, paying attention to how things go together and smiling and being friendly, none of which costs anything. I found that for me personally thinking that grooming was "too much bother" was a little bit my own disdain for whatever situation necessitated it so I've tried to be flexible in my approach or remove myself from situations that require dress-up that i don't want to participate in (being a bridesmaid for example)
posted by jessamyn at 10:45 AM on October 11, 2007
My sister is dressy, she likes to be well put together even if she's dressing casual. This includes makeup, jewelry, clothes that fit and decent shoes, jackets and other accessories. From a long time hanging out with her, with me dressed like me, I notice differences in how we're received. People seem to take her seriously, see her as more professional, even more knowledgeable when that's not always the case. Guys flirt with her more, she gets fewer prickly responses. I think sometimes people think Im a lesbian because of my dressed-downedness and while it sucks that people would act negatively towards me because of that, it's also the reality of some of my interactions.
I've decided that, for people who dress up (or people who appreciate it) there's a certain amount of respect implied with dress-up behavior but it's not about wearing heels and makeup or being femme-y. I get a lot of mileage out of things like wearing jewlery (any sort) and a watch, paying attention to things like socks, fingernails and general "kemptness" and having my hair look decent. Since part of what I do for work is public speaking and working with the public and I get paid to do that, I like to look like I've made an effort and that my presence has value. This does not mean looking how people want me to per se, but being a good version of how I want to look, whatever that is.
Other things that I think you can do that matter but aren't "dress-up" per se include decent skin/tooth care, paying attention to how things go together and smiling and being friendly, none of which costs anything. I found that for me personally thinking that grooming was "too much bother" was a little bit my own disdain for whatever situation necessitated it so I've tried to be flexible in my approach or remove myself from situations that require dress-up that i don't want to participate in (being a bridesmaid for example)
posted by jessamyn at 10:45 AM on October 11, 2007
Self-image.
It sounds pretty fluffy but you will feel more put together and therefore have the confidence that comes with knowing you look good. Thus you will act more put together and be more successful in general. Other people's image of you will improve also, and people will expect more of you. This is a good thing, because as they trust you more and more and your responsibilities grow, so too will your success. As you said, when you did dress up you felt more secure and credible. Now who couldn't do with a little extra security and credibility? You don't have to make everything perfect. My recommendation would be to fix one or two things -- iron your shirt for the next day before you go to bed or put on some foundation in the morning. You don't have to dress to the 9s every morning, but every little thing you do will help. Before long you may find you want to dress up more.
Give it a shot. Nothing to lose, right?
posted by MaxK at 10:56 AM on October 11, 2007
It sounds pretty fluffy but you will feel more put together and therefore have the confidence that comes with knowing you look good. Thus you will act more put together and be more successful in general. Other people's image of you will improve also, and people will expect more of you. This is a good thing, because as they trust you more and more and your responsibilities grow, so too will your success. As you said, when you did dress up you felt more secure and credible. Now who couldn't do with a little extra security and credibility? You don't have to make everything perfect. My recommendation would be to fix one or two things -- iron your shirt for the next day before you go to bed or put on some foundation in the morning. You don't have to dress to the 9s every morning, but every little thing you do will help. Before long you may find you want to dress up more.
Give it a shot. Nothing to lose, right?
posted by MaxK at 10:56 AM on October 11, 2007
For me, the benefit of dressing up is being prepared for any situation that might come up in my day, from running into someone I should try to impress, to suddenly being invited to go to a birthday dinner after work, to having to run errands in the rain, to having to stand for 14 hours straight. That doesn't mean I dry clean and iron, though. That's too much prep-work and those clothes don't retain their good looks if I have a crazy day. I skew dressy because it's actually easiest to wear a dress with boots or flats every day. It's easier to shop for; it's easier to get dressed in the morning; it's easier to wash and return to the closet; it doesn't feel painful on the body.
posted by xo at 11:00 AM on October 11, 2007
posted by xo at 11:00 AM on October 11, 2007
You feel better, people treat you better, it's fun, and you look fabulous in your own movie (that is if you live in your own movie, like I do).
posted by iamkimiam at 11:10 AM on October 11, 2007
posted by iamkimiam at 11:10 AM on October 11, 2007
Seconding jessamyn on "being a good version of how I want to look". I'm also in my 40s and very casual at heart. I usually work at home with no makeup, in jeans and a t-shirt (but NEVER in pajamas, as I am just not happy and productive that way.)
But when I consult or teach, I go business casual or corporate, as the client and job requires. Most of my clothes can be washed at home, but I have a jacket and a couple of pairs of trousers that require dry cleaning. I get a simple haircut every 4-6 weeks (and have had several clients compliment me about my hair in recent weeks). I wear minimal but effective makeup (foundation because of my rosacea, a little eyeliner, maybe some mascara). I get pedicures in the summer and show off my favourite orange nail polish in sandals that go to a shoe repair shop as required when the heels wear down.
In short, I go for a low maintenance but well-kempt look that doesn't deny my personality (artsy earrings, odd nail polish colours, my fall coat that I got from Goodwill 20 years ago but still looks great). It's not just a matter of showing respect for client expectations without giving up my sense of self, but it does give me that extra shot of confidence when I'm dealing with a new set of strangers every teaching day.
posted by maudlin at 11:12 AM on October 11, 2007
But when I consult or teach, I go business casual or corporate, as the client and job requires. Most of my clothes can be washed at home, but I have a jacket and a couple of pairs of trousers that require dry cleaning. I get a simple haircut every 4-6 weeks (and have had several clients compliment me about my hair in recent weeks). I wear minimal but effective makeup (foundation because of my rosacea, a little eyeliner, maybe some mascara). I get pedicures in the summer and show off my favourite orange nail polish in sandals that go to a shoe repair shop as required when the heels wear down.
In short, I go for a low maintenance but well-kempt look that doesn't deny my personality (artsy earrings, odd nail polish colours, my fall coat that I got from Goodwill 20 years ago but still looks great). It's not just a matter of showing respect for client expectations without giving up my sense of self, but it does give me that extra shot of confidence when I'm dealing with a new set of strangers every teaching day.
posted by maudlin at 11:12 AM on October 11, 2007
It took me a long time to accept that clothing can be a form of self-expression, and that even choosing to not dress with (any type of) style is saying something about yourself to other people. Because of that, I'm still kinda feeling my way around dressing comfortably, and nicely.
Even just upping the level of quality of the things you wear makes a difference. For example, I never wear sneakers, only real shoes. That makes me make different choices for things like jeans (I just bought a pair that have a much slimmer, less baggy fit than my old dark wash ones, and the new ones are black). Which makes me make different choices for tops, belts, and so on.
If I do wear a t-shirt, it's an interesting one (Threadless has a lot of great stuff, or things I've gotten from concerts), and I always wear it with something layered, like a sweater, pashmina or scarf. Target also has a lot of options for plain cotton shirts, long or short-sleeved, with a variety of flattering necklines. They're cheap, and a staple.
I wear a lot of skirts, mostly a-line because they're the most flattering to my shape. I don't own a single pair of white socks (well, I do have a special pair with reinforcements, for walking/exercise). Most of my shoes are flats, I have some boots, some wedge heels and some actual heels.
I still don't wear makeup, but I'm learning to apply it so it's subtle. I was convinced after reading a study that showed how womens' faces changed during the full month's menstrual cycle, with the "most attractive" rankings coming when they were loaded with pheromones; it also showed that this that makeup emulates. (I'm also getting my hair and eyebrows in order, after playing around in Photoshop to see what's the most flattering to my face.)
Bottom line, appearance is just one facet of a person, no more important than any other...but why would you let one facet of yourself be any less sparkling than the rest?
posted by lhall at 11:17 AM on October 11, 2007
Even just upping the level of quality of the things you wear makes a difference. For example, I never wear sneakers, only real shoes. That makes me make different choices for things like jeans (I just bought a pair that have a much slimmer, less baggy fit than my old dark wash ones, and the new ones are black). Which makes me make different choices for tops, belts, and so on.
If I do wear a t-shirt, it's an interesting one (Threadless has a lot of great stuff, or things I've gotten from concerts), and I always wear it with something layered, like a sweater, pashmina or scarf. Target also has a lot of options for plain cotton shirts, long or short-sleeved, with a variety of flattering necklines. They're cheap, and a staple.
I wear a lot of skirts, mostly a-line because they're the most flattering to my shape. I don't own a single pair of white socks (well, I do have a special pair with reinforcements, for walking/exercise). Most of my shoes are flats, I have some boots, some wedge heels and some actual heels.
I still don't wear makeup, but I'm learning to apply it so it's subtle. I was convinced after reading a study that showed how womens' faces changed during the full month's menstrual cycle, with the "most attractive" rankings coming when they were loaded with pheromones; it also showed that this that makeup emulates. (I'm also getting my hair and eyebrows in order, after playing around in Photoshop to see what's the most flattering to my face.)
Bottom line, appearance is just one facet of a person, no more important than any other...but why would you let one facet of yourself be any less sparkling than the rest?
posted by lhall at 11:17 AM on October 11, 2007
You those old movies -- maybe Fred Astaire and Ginger Rodgers movies -- that, when you watch them, give you a little "style thrill"? Watching those movies is like watching a work of art. There's a part of me that wants to live in a world like that (a world of beauty) and that wants to contribute to making this world more like that.
I can go both ways. I can also get into the everyone-wear-PJs mode.
As a heterosexual male, I enjoy seeing women who dress up. This sounds cruder than it is. I don't mean that I want to sleep with them, date them or think of them in an overly sexualized way. I think it's just an aesthetic that was originally developed as part of my sexuality but is now a thing in and of itself.
(I know it's separate, because I enjoy well-dressed women whether I'm attracted to them in other ways or not.)
The question is: do you care? I don't think you SHOULD care. I just think it's something worth considering. Do you want to be part of the "art object" called "Women"?
I bring this up because most people here are focusing on dressing to achieve some specific business or personal goal. But I think there's also an aesthetic goal that's important to some people.
posted by grumblebee at 11:19 AM on October 11, 2007
I can go both ways. I can also get into the everyone-wear-PJs mode.
As a heterosexual male, I enjoy seeing women who dress up. This sounds cruder than it is. I don't mean that I want to sleep with them, date them or think of them in an overly sexualized way. I think it's just an aesthetic that was originally developed as part of my sexuality but is now a thing in and of itself.
(I know it's separate, because I enjoy well-dressed women whether I'm attracted to them in other ways or not.)
The question is: do you care? I don't think you SHOULD care. I just think it's something worth considering. Do you want to be part of the "art object" called "Women"?
I bring this up because most people here are focusing on dressing to achieve some specific business or personal goal. But I think there's also an aesthetic goal that's important to some people.
posted by grumblebee at 11:19 AM on October 11, 2007
I was just remarking about this the other day to a friend -- ever since I started dressing up more for work, I am treated much differently in general, both in my workplace and in public. I get more eye contact, more smiles, and more compliments than I did when I tended to dress a bit more casually. I suspect it's a combination of the fact that I give off a more professional, pulled-together look just based on my clothes, but also -- and just as importantly -- that I really feel good dressed up, and project a more confident, positive vibe than I used to.
posted by scody at 11:21 AM on October 11, 2007
posted by scody at 11:21 AM on October 11, 2007
Casual and not-fussy are fine.
my button-down shirts are usually not ironed and I wear them untucked
But the above sounds like you're crossing a line from "casual" to "unkempt-looking."
posted by desuetude at 11:28 AM on October 11, 2007
my button-down shirts are usually not ironed and I wear them untucked
But the above sounds like you're crossing a line from "casual" to "unkempt-looking."
posted by desuetude at 11:28 AM on October 11, 2007
Oh yeah, one surprisingly subtle but effective change to your face, as lhall suggests, is getting your eyebrows shaped. I resisted it for years, being so low maintenance and all, but I just started this in the past year and I absolutely love the effect. You can do it once or twice a year, and maintain the shape by tweezing between appointments. (Any previously waxed hairs DON'T HURT when you pluck them again. Honest.)
Waxing or threading at a good salon is cheap and any soreness is pretty transient. See this thread for more. You'd be surprised at who else has considered it.
posted by maudlin at 11:30 AM on October 11, 2007
Waxing or threading at a good salon is cheap and any soreness is pretty transient. See this thread for more. You'd be surprised at who else has considered it.
posted by maudlin at 11:30 AM on October 11, 2007
I personally stereotype people who are better dressed as more put together in their life. If you have time to iron your shirt, apply makeup, etc, this is probably because you are organized. This is reinforced if you are properly prepared for meetings and other events. The article jbickers linked to talks about this same principle with diet and exercise: "The same self-discipline we use to make ourselves exercise regularly and eat in moderation carries over into other aspects of our lives."
I have double checked the amounts of money cashiers have counted, and I noticed that the ones that had their bills in neat piles were the ones that were more likely to be right on.
People who use the common forms of grammar and mechanics I tend to think of as more educated.
So it isn't a surprise it applies to the way one dresses.
There is, obviously, overkill. I know an architect that dresses very well. She looks great in the meetings, and she is articulate. Yet I cringe internally when I walk with her around the job site in inappropriate shoes. She will wear nice looking open toed high heels in a site full of tripping and cutting hazards.
It is hard to answer your question without knowing you and your office. Would it really benefit if you dressed up more? Try it and see. Maybe you see that it does help you, but the help is less than the effort expended to maintain the higher level of dress.
posted by Monday at 11:32 AM on October 11, 2007
I have double checked the amounts of money cashiers have counted, and I noticed that the ones that had their bills in neat piles were the ones that were more likely to be right on.
People who use the common forms of grammar and mechanics I tend to think of as more educated.
So it isn't a surprise it applies to the way one dresses.
There is, obviously, overkill. I know an architect that dresses very well. She looks great in the meetings, and she is articulate. Yet I cringe internally when I walk with her around the job site in inappropriate shoes. She will wear nice looking open toed high heels in a site full of tripping and cutting hazards.
It is hard to answer your question without knowing you and your office. Would it really benefit if you dressed up more? Try it and see. Maybe you see that it does help you, but the help is less than the effort expended to maintain the higher level of dress.
posted by Monday at 11:32 AM on October 11, 2007
i think "It's always better to be overdressed" is an adage for a reason.
For some reason, people seem to think of you as more professional, put together, et cetera, on a subconscious level.
Additionally, looking like you're trying to fit in with the dress aesthetic of your office, but totally not caring (untucked, wrinkly oxford), is only a good thing if you fit in the category of 'so fucking brilliant/awesome/both that they do what they damn well please because you're lucky to have them'. Otherwise it just looks sort of sloppy.
posted by The Esteemed Doctor Bunsen Honeydew at 11:36 AM on October 11, 2007
For some reason, people seem to think of you as more professional, put together, et cetera, on a subconscious level.
Additionally, looking like you're trying to fit in with the dress aesthetic of your office, but totally not caring (untucked, wrinkly oxford), is only a good thing if you fit in the category of 'so fucking brilliant/awesome/both that they do what they damn well please because you're lucky to have them'. Otherwise it just looks sort of sloppy.
posted by The Esteemed Doctor Bunsen Honeydew at 11:36 AM on October 11, 2007
being neatly groomed and nicely dressed shows competence. i look at sloppy people and subconsciously wonder, if they can't even manage to care for their own body & hair, and maintain a working wardrobe of 12 shirts, 5 pairs of pants, and 2 pairs of shoes, how the heck should i trust them with anything else? it's not like you need to own an entire mallfull of clothes or anything.
you don't even need to dryclean most stuff- buy shirts with a little spandex in them, then when you wash them, remove them from the machine right away, stretch them smooth them with your hands and put them on hangers to dry. that way they'll be pretty presentable without ironing, especially if you plan to wear a blazer or cardigan over them. i dryclean my suits like once every 20 wearings.
i've gone the tomboy route (naturally messy hair, which in my case means bushy), no makeup, and casual, leaning-to-sloppy clothes. lately i do the young arts professional route (nice dark jeans, short heels, non-wrinkly fitted shirts, blush, lipgloss, and mascara, earrings and sleeker hair), and while it does take about 15 minutes more a day, i can really see the difference in how people treat me, and that my grooming impresses them on some level. i think it shows respect to them and their establishment, too.
posted by twistofrhyme at 11:41 AM on October 11, 2007
you don't even need to dryclean most stuff- buy shirts with a little spandex in them, then when you wash them, remove them from the machine right away, stretch them smooth them with your hands and put them on hangers to dry. that way they'll be pretty presentable without ironing, especially if you plan to wear a blazer or cardigan over them. i dryclean my suits like once every 20 wearings.
i've gone the tomboy route (naturally messy hair, which in my case means bushy), no makeup, and casual, leaning-to-sloppy clothes. lately i do the young arts professional route (nice dark jeans, short heels, non-wrinkly fitted shirts, blush, lipgloss, and mascara, earrings and sleeker hair), and while it does take about 15 minutes more a day, i can really see the difference in how people treat me, and that my grooming impresses them on some level. i think it shows respect to them and their establishment, too.
posted by twistofrhyme at 11:41 AM on October 11, 2007
I hate dressing up and do the towel dried hair thing, too, but I feel compelled to look somewhat nice for work. I've come up with a system that lets me feel lazy about clothes most days, while looking a little nicer than I would if I were as lazy as I really want to be
I have 11 work outfits, and an actual rotating schedule so I know exactly what I'm wearing every day - I just look at the calendar. I also have "clean and iron work clothes" on my calendar, I do it every two and a half months or so unless something happens to get my stuff dirty in the interim. It took some time to devise the calendar and accumulate the clothes, but now that it's done I'm pretty much on autopilot all the time.
So, I look at the calendar, get dressed, go to work, and apply a little lipstick before entering the office (lipstick takes 5 seconds, tops).
With nice clothes and a little lipstick, I think I look OK enough to feel "dressed up" at work, but I still don't do jewelry, any extra makeup, or any styling so I'm not really putting any more time or effort into this than I would if I were picking up jeans and a wrinkled shirt from my bedroom floor.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 11:55 AM on October 11, 2007
I have 11 work outfits, and an actual rotating schedule so I know exactly what I'm wearing every day - I just look at the calendar. I also have "clean and iron work clothes" on my calendar, I do it every two and a half months or so unless something happens to get my stuff dirty in the interim. It took some time to devise the calendar and accumulate the clothes, but now that it's done I'm pretty much on autopilot all the time.
So, I look at the calendar, get dressed, go to work, and apply a little lipstick before entering the office (lipstick takes 5 seconds, tops).
With nice clothes and a little lipstick, I think I look OK enough to feel "dressed up" at work, but I still don't do jewelry, any extra makeup, or any styling so I'm not really putting any more time or effort into this than I would if I were picking up jeans and a wrinkled shirt from my bedroom floor.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 11:55 AM on October 11, 2007
My wife is a mid level exec, and a higher level exec mentoring her said that women can't let their hair go gray if they want to get promoted.
This is women talking to women. It seems to me that minimal makeup and suits fall into the same category.
posted by ewkpates at 11:59 AM on October 11, 2007
This is women talking to women. It seems to me that minimal makeup and suits fall into the same category.
posted by ewkpates at 11:59 AM on October 11, 2007
Everyone has already chimed in with excellent comments along the lines of what I would say: I am definitely perceived and treated as more professional and more competent when I am dressed up. Now that I do it more often, it's become more of a habit, and I've grown to like the "grown-up" feeling I get from being pulled together. I think of it as living in a movie in which I play a clever Girl Friday, complete with dashing wardrobe -- and it's fun to "play the part."
I will add my own wee interpretation, which is that it is very similar to having a messy desk. I am a real mess-maker, and my office often looks like a tornado went through it. Despite the fact that I have a fair level of seniority, and despite the fact that I clearly get my work done, it obviously irritates my boss (who is naturally tidy), and she comments on it every time she stops in. I used to shrug it off, rationalizing that it was just a cosmetic thing & my work spoke for itself, but then I began to realize it actually seemed to affect how my boss viewed me professionally, even though in reality it makes no difference to my work. Now I make an effort to get my office to *appear* to be neat (even if I still have piles hidden everywhere), and her attitude towards me is very different.
posted by tigerbelly at 12:07 PM on October 11, 2007
I will add my own wee interpretation, which is that it is very similar to having a messy desk. I am a real mess-maker, and my office often looks like a tornado went through it. Despite the fact that I have a fair level of seniority, and despite the fact that I clearly get my work done, it obviously irritates my boss (who is naturally tidy), and she comments on it every time she stops in. I used to shrug it off, rationalizing that it was just a cosmetic thing & my work spoke for itself, but then I began to realize it actually seemed to affect how my boss viewed me professionally, even though in reality it makes no difference to my work. Now I make an effort to get my office to *appear* to be neat (even if I still have piles hidden everywhere), and her attitude towards me is very different.
posted by tigerbelly at 12:07 PM on October 11, 2007
If you are going to wear a shirt, iron it. If you are lazy and it is cool throw a v-neck sweater over top and just iron the collar and cuffs. I tuck in the front of my shirts if they are long enough and leave the back out but I wear jeans. Unless you are wearing a breezy silk-type blouse get shirts with suitably stiff collars that stay crisp.
Tangible benefits to looking professional? New coworkers may not take you as seriously as they should. Old coworkers may take you for granted. You may be blocking yourself from interesting projects, lateral movement or even the promotion you didn't know you wanted. If layoffs occur you don't want them to look around the office and start picking off the sloppy looking ones.
Of course I happen to fail at looking professional half the time but I do my best to at least look sharp.
posted by captaincrouton at 12:12 PM on October 11, 2007
Tangible benefits to looking professional? New coworkers may not take you as seriously as they should. Old coworkers may take you for granted. You may be blocking yourself from interesting projects, lateral movement or even the promotion you didn't know you wanted. If layoffs occur you don't want them to look around the office and start picking off the sloppy looking ones.
Of course I happen to fail at looking professional half the time but I do my best to at least look sharp.
posted by captaincrouton at 12:12 PM on October 11, 2007
I've always heard (at least at my company) dress not for the job you have, but for the job you want.
I fall on the "business casual" end of things, my boss wears suits. I do not want her job - I've made it plain and clear. If I'm in a suit, people know it's a day I'm teaching. However, I've also taken an in-house women's leadership course, where we were taught the basics of being taken seriously in a male dominated field. Some of it was absurd (to me at least), but some of it I've found to be useful. I'm fairly young and in a service role, and dressing more professionally (make-up, nails, jewelry, always ironed and coordinated) has helped me get treated more like a peer and less like a coworker's daughter.
posted by librarianamy at 12:19 PM on October 11, 2007
I fall on the "business casual" end of things, my boss wears suits. I do not want her job - I've made it plain and clear. If I'm in a suit, people know it's a day I'm teaching. However, I've also taken an in-house women's leadership course, where we were taught the basics of being taken seriously in a male dominated field. Some of it was absurd (to me at least), but some of it I've found to be useful. I'm fairly young and in a service role, and dressing more professionally (make-up, nails, jewelry, always ironed and coordinated) has helped me get treated more like a peer and less like a coworker's daughter.
posted by librarianamy at 12:19 PM on October 11, 2007
I find myself on opposite ends of this spectrum all the time. As a gardener who had to be at work in the City at 7:30 am, I pretty much could not care less what the hell I wore. At the same time, I really love dressing up and having great clothes to wear. Most of the time, I am severely underdresesd or comically overdressed. I'm comfortable in both states, but there is a noticeable difference in the way I'm treated by other people. People in general are more friendly to people who look like they've put some effort into their appearance, and the reality is that it doesn't really have to take much effort. Hang up your clothes so they don't wrinkle, put on a little powder and lipstick.
I personally enjoy having so much control over the way I'm perceived- that may sound a little odd, but I'm pretty resistant to doing things solely because of some unspoken cultural rule. On the other hand, it's pretty enjoyable to use those unspoken cultural rules and perceptions to amuse yourself.
If you don't know where to start, there are many great threads about clothes and makeup on AskMe.
posted by oneirodynia at 12:37 PM on October 11, 2007
I personally enjoy having so much control over the way I'm perceived- that may sound a little odd, but I'm pretty resistant to doing things solely because of some unspoken cultural rule. On the other hand, it's pretty enjoyable to use those unspoken cultural rules and perceptions to amuse yourself.
If you don't know where to start, there are many great threads about clothes and makeup on AskMe.
posted by oneirodynia at 12:37 PM on October 11, 2007
I'm going to go against the common wisdom and say that you should dress in the way that you feel comfortable and confident. If I am overdressed and wearing make-up, I feel fake and horribly self-conscious. To feel my best, I need to be dressed appropriately for the occasion, but I also need to feel like myself and not some weird other person.
If you are dressed appropriately for your job (and from your description you sound like you are) and you feel good about the way you look, then you should relax and enjoy looking like yourself.
posted by hydropsyche at 12:48 PM on October 11, 2007
If you are dressed appropriately for your job (and from your description you sound like you are) and you feel good about the way you look, then you should relax and enjoy looking like yourself.
posted by hydropsyche at 12:48 PM on October 11, 2007
The thing missing from your question is, what do you want? If you want to feel more at home when at work, and you want to not have to buy new clothes or put on make-up, or get a haircut every 6 weeks (or whatever), then keep doing what you are doing. If you want to advance, or be taken more seriously, then act like it. Part of acting like it is dressing like it.
If you wanted to be Santa Claus you'd wear a red suit and a white beard. If you wanted to be an ax-murderer you'd wear a hockey mask. If you want to be a an easy going, no-nonsense office worker then keep wearing unpressed oxford shirts and khakis, but if you want to be a manager or a go-getter, dress like one.
posted by dirtdirt at 1:53 PM on October 11, 2007
If you wanted to be Santa Claus you'd wear a red suit and a white beard. If you wanted to be an ax-murderer you'd wear a hockey mask. If you want to be a an easy going, no-nonsense office worker then keep wearing unpressed oxford shirts and khakis, but if you want to be a manager or a go-getter, dress like one.
posted by dirtdirt at 1:53 PM on October 11, 2007
Weighing back in because it seems necessary. Folks, there is a difference between sloppy and casual. It is the difference between coming in with unwashed, unstyled hair and sporting a low-maintenance professional bob rather than spending an hour each morning styling.
Some of the best advice I ever received was NOT to overdress; anonymous would do well to split the difference in the advice here with two good black wool pairs of pants (or, renegade! one black and one charcoal), one matching black jacket when a full suit is required, one white and one blue collared shirt, and four or five cashmere or merino twin sets (you wear the shell under the jacket or the set alone.) You'll never look look sloppy again, and you can get all of the above at L.L. Bean or similar for less than $650 total.
And I state again, I have never bought into the dressing platitudes, and I get nothing but love from the co-workers and the boss.
posted by Arch1 at 2:06 PM on October 11, 2007
Some of the best advice I ever received was NOT to overdress; anonymous would do well to split the difference in the advice here with two good black wool pairs of pants (or, renegade! one black and one charcoal), one matching black jacket when a full suit is required, one white and one blue collared shirt, and four or five cashmere or merino twin sets (you wear the shell under the jacket or the set alone.) You'll never look look sloppy again, and you can get all of the above at L.L. Bean or similar for less than $650 total.
And I state again, I have never bought into the dressing platitudes, and I get nothing but love from the co-workers and the boss.
posted by Arch1 at 2:06 PM on October 11, 2007
I'll present the cynical view, which is part of the truth though certainly not the whole truth: By wearing a suit, etc, you will impress people who are various combinations of stupid, arrogant, superficial, impressionable, and useless. In the world, and especially the corporate world, that's a lot of people.
Look at the implicit message sent by a workplace requiring suits. When do normal people wear suits? Weddings, funerals, and other special occasions. The workplace is saying it is as important as your best friend's wedding. Arrogance.
I do a similar thing much more often with my communications. Let's say I'm corresponding with some useless entity like my landlord. (I pick this example because it looks like my old one is trying to screw me out of a security deposit and I'll have to do this soon.) I'll use a lot of needless formality, big words, and important-sounding phrases. (And I know enough English to do all that correctly.) It's not because I respect them. It's because I think they're the sort of scumbags likely to take me more seriously if I employ that sort of meaningless superficial junk.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 2:12 PM on October 11, 2007
Look at the implicit message sent by a workplace requiring suits. When do normal people wear suits? Weddings, funerals, and other special occasions. The workplace is saying it is as important as your best friend's wedding. Arrogance.
I do a similar thing much more often with my communications. Let's say I'm corresponding with some useless entity like my landlord. (I pick this example because it looks like my old one is trying to screw me out of a security deposit and I'll have to do this soon.) I'll use a lot of needless formality, big words, and important-sounding phrases. (And I know enough English to do all that correctly.) It's not because I respect them. It's because I think they're the sort of scumbags likely to take me more seriously if I employ that sort of meaningless superficial junk.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 2:12 PM on October 11, 2007
I forgot the conclusion: even if it's entirely to impress stupid people, that doesn't mean it's not to your advantage.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 2:15 PM on October 11, 2007
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 2:15 PM on October 11, 2007
Making an effort with your appearance should only ever be for yourself and to make you feel good.
Being stylish and consistant does, without doubt gives you more confidence but only when it suits your personality. Unfortunately you do get judged differently, it is afterall human nature to judge on appearances however shallow alot of us may think this is.
When you know exactly what you are doing and are confident that it works and know that it is not your primary objective in life, it really is not that big a deal.
If twice a year you refresh your capsule wardrobe, keeping it simple and easy, then you don't have to think about it too often.
Similarly, it takes 10 mins every morning to put on a small abount of natural make up and to style your hair (you don't have to stop letting it dry naturally). You just have to know what you are doing.
Once every 2 months is sufficient for a hair cut and it does not have to cost the earth.
This is all meaningless. For me it has become routine. I rarely think about it. I keep it all very simple, natural and uniform without compromising my personality.
I am open, honest and friendly at work. I like to be valued on what I do and how I behave, rather then on how I look. This is precisely why I keep things simple.
I am avoiding criticism and do feel a bit more confident at the same time. In work sometimes it's better if my boss doesn't know if I've been up all night working on a proposal, it appears that I have just pulled it out of the bag.
In short, I am happy with the way I work it. If you are happy with the way you do then why change? Why even worry or bother yourself with your question. Who really cares anyway?
Good Luck.
posted by johanna5 at 3:02 PM on October 11, 2007
Being stylish and consistant does, without doubt gives you more confidence but only when it suits your personality. Unfortunately you do get judged differently, it is afterall human nature to judge on appearances however shallow alot of us may think this is.
When you know exactly what you are doing and are confident that it works and know that it is not your primary objective in life, it really is not that big a deal.
If twice a year you refresh your capsule wardrobe, keeping it simple and easy, then you don't have to think about it too often.
Similarly, it takes 10 mins every morning to put on a small abount of natural make up and to style your hair (you don't have to stop letting it dry naturally). You just have to know what you are doing.
Once every 2 months is sufficient for a hair cut and it does not have to cost the earth.
This is all meaningless. For me it has become routine. I rarely think about it. I keep it all very simple, natural and uniform without compromising my personality.
I am open, honest and friendly at work. I like to be valued on what I do and how I behave, rather then on how I look. This is precisely why I keep things simple.
I am avoiding criticism and do feel a bit more confident at the same time. In work sometimes it's better if my boss doesn't know if I've been up all night working on a proposal, it appears that I have just pulled it out of the bag.
In short, I am happy with the way I work it. If you are happy with the way you do then why change? Why even worry or bother yourself with your question. Who really cares anyway?
Good Luck.
posted by johanna5 at 3:02 PM on October 11, 2007
even choosing to not dress with (any type of) style is saying something about yourself to other people
Yup.
I felt so strongly about wanting to dress however I wanted (i.e., not femmily) and not having to wear makeup that I chose a profession that (ostensibly) would let me wear old ratty wool sweaters and t-shirt to work... academia. But it turns out that it really doesn't work that way, for young women anyway. It really makes a difference in how people react when I wear authority-clothes.
And I'm finding that I am also more efficient, more authoritative (less deferential), etc -- happier at work! -- when I'm dressed in what I think of as The LobsterMitten Executive Collection.
For years I bought stuff for my work wardrobe that was either too formal or fit me terribly, so I hated wearing it and always felt like a fish out of water. I also had a wrong picture of how a woman would have to dress, to dress professionally.
Lately I've found a happy medium: crisp oxfords with vertical stripes, untucked; nice solid-color slacks that can hold a press-line; real leather shoes with some heel height (boxy or round toe, not "high heel" looking). In cold weather, a dressy cardigan or soft blazerish thing, sometimes a scarf. Three nice necklaces that I cycle through. I don't wear makeup but I do have eyeglasses with distinctive frames, which helps to define the face in something like the way eye makeup does. (I won't mention hair in the success story, since my hair could use some work. I think if you already have the low-maintenance hair type, getting a great haircut 5-6 times a year is THE secret to being able to shower and hop in the car, and still look professional when you get to work.)
The two biggest things, for me:
1. Shirts can be untucked if they (and the slacks) look crisp; that way it looks like a choice rather than an oversight. I can wear shirts a few times without taking them to be cleaned, but I'll always iron them if they look wrinkly. It's very little effort. I think the ironing makes a huge difference to how good my clothes look.
2. I think the heel height and footfall noise of a real shoe (rather than a felt clog, for example) makes a huge difference to my "getting into character". I won't consider even for a moment wearing shoes that are uncomfortable or unstable - but finding professional looking shoes that meet those requirements has been a real boon.
posted by LobsterMitten at 3:20 PM on October 11, 2007
Yup.
I felt so strongly about wanting to dress however I wanted (i.e., not femmily) and not having to wear makeup that I chose a profession that (ostensibly) would let me wear old ratty wool sweaters and t-shirt to work... academia. But it turns out that it really doesn't work that way, for young women anyway. It really makes a difference in how people react when I wear authority-clothes.
And I'm finding that I am also more efficient, more authoritative (less deferential), etc -- happier at work! -- when I'm dressed in what I think of as The LobsterMitten Executive Collection.
For years I bought stuff for my work wardrobe that was either too formal or fit me terribly, so I hated wearing it and always felt like a fish out of water. I also had a wrong picture of how a woman would have to dress, to dress professionally.
Lately I've found a happy medium: crisp oxfords with vertical stripes, untucked; nice solid-color slacks that can hold a press-line; real leather shoes with some heel height (boxy or round toe, not "high heel" looking). In cold weather, a dressy cardigan or soft blazerish thing, sometimes a scarf. Three nice necklaces that I cycle through. I don't wear makeup but I do have eyeglasses with distinctive frames, which helps to define the face in something like the way eye makeup does. (I won't mention hair in the success story, since my hair could use some work. I think if you already have the low-maintenance hair type, getting a great haircut 5-6 times a year is THE secret to being able to shower and hop in the car, and still look professional when you get to work.)
The two biggest things, for me:
1. Shirts can be untucked if they (and the slacks) look crisp; that way it looks like a choice rather than an oversight. I can wear shirts a few times without taking them to be cleaned, but I'll always iron them if they look wrinkly. It's very little effort. I think the ironing makes a huge difference to how good my clothes look.
2. I think the heel height and footfall noise of a real shoe (rather than a felt clog, for example) makes a huge difference to my "getting into character". I won't consider even for a moment wearing shoes that are uncomfortable or unstable - but finding professional looking shoes that meet those requirements has been a real boon.
posted by LobsterMitten at 3:20 PM on October 11, 2007
Admittedly, though, my button-down shirts are usually not ironed
You might consider a no-iron oxford. A company called Foxcroft makes very nice cotton button-down-style shirts for women that require absolutely no ironing. They look magically crisp and pressed, complete with creases, right out of the dryer. I know Nordstrom carries them, possibly other stores.
Foxcroft shirts aren't cheap (around $50) but the ease of care and professional look they create are well worth the money (I hate ironing like the plague, so I will pay more for a shirt that lets me look ironed without ironing).
posted by pineapple at 3:29 PM on October 11, 2007
You might consider a no-iron oxford. A company called Foxcroft makes very nice cotton button-down-style shirts for women that require absolutely no ironing. They look magically crisp and pressed, complete with creases, right out of the dryer. I know Nordstrom carries them, possibly other stores.
Foxcroft shirts aren't cheap (around $50) but the ease of care and professional look they create are well worth the money (I hate ironing like the plague, so I will pay more for a shirt that lets me look ironed without ironing).
posted by pineapple at 3:29 PM on October 11, 2007
I've done this both ways. The super-casual way and the "I'm going to put a little bit of effort into this" way. I found out that I like wearing more of my wardrobe, and I like feeling more put together. I still work in a casual office, and I don't stand out, but I feel better and it doesn't take any more time to pick the cuter shoes.
If the number of people you deal with every day face-to-face is very small, and if you already have as much power and authority as you'd ever want with them, there may not be as much benefit to going for it.
But I have noticed that I judge people based on how they are dressed. Just like those above have said. I think a sloppy dresser is a sloppy person in other areas as well.
If it just isn't you, it just isn't you. But your hair is the thing you wear every day, maybe start by finding a good stylist and trying for something more than what you currently have as a style?
posted by Mozzie at 3:44 PM on October 11, 2007
If the number of people you deal with every day face-to-face is very small, and if you already have as much power and authority as you'd ever want with them, there may not be as much benefit to going for it.
But I have noticed that I judge people based on how they are dressed. Just like those above have said. I think a sloppy dresser is a sloppy person in other areas as well.
If it just isn't you, it just isn't you. But your hair is the thing you wear every day, maybe start by finding a good stylist and trying for something more than what you currently have as a style?
posted by Mozzie at 3:44 PM on October 11, 2007
Another quick thought...some people like to blend into the background and some people like to be sheep. I think it takes more courage to be yourself.
Style is what makes us individual. Parenting style, teaching style. management style, arguement style, cooking style, dressing style. Real style is not forced it is natural and everyone is capable.
Be free, express yourself.
posted by johanna5 at 4:24 PM on October 11, 2007
Style is what makes us individual. Parenting style, teaching style. management style, arguement style, cooking style, dressing style. Real style is not forced it is natural and everyone is capable.
Be free, express yourself.
posted by johanna5 at 4:24 PM on October 11, 2007
I'm a young female, and I don't wear makeup. This often makes people overestimate my age, as older women tend to be less made-up than younger women. Personally, I can't stand makeup. Lippie comes off in half an hour or less, foundation gives me zits, eyemakeup is totally out of the question, and I blush quite well on my own, thanks. I do style my hair - it takes a good 30secs above and beyond my normal morning haircare routine. Took me a while to figure out how to pull this off, but it was well worth it.
I dress business casual. Button-down or dressy tops, black slacks, black closed flats. I have a wool jacket for winter, and a couple of suit jackets that match the pants for autumn/spring. None of my clothes require ironing - I take them out of the washer and hang them on hangers to dry. Most of my tops go with most of my pants, so I'm rarely at a loss for what to wear.
There's a balance; I work in IT, and attitudes to dress vary fairly widely. In one crowd, underdressing is really not possible so long as you're wearing clothes and a suit will rouse hostility; in another, if you're not in a suit, you're not worth taking seriously.
posted by ysabet at 4:59 PM on October 11, 2007
I dress business casual. Button-down or dressy tops, black slacks, black closed flats. I have a wool jacket for winter, and a couple of suit jackets that match the pants for autumn/spring. None of my clothes require ironing - I take them out of the washer and hang them on hangers to dry. Most of my tops go with most of my pants, so I'm rarely at a loss for what to wear.
There's a balance; I work in IT, and attitudes to dress vary fairly widely. In one crowd, underdressing is really not possible so long as you're wearing clothes and a suit will rouse hostility; in another, if you're not in a suit, you're not worth taking seriously.
posted by ysabet at 4:59 PM on October 11, 2007
Rykey has it right when he says these dress codes are "hollow and arbitrary."
By attributing any value to the appearance of others, you are, quite literally, being superficial. By playing the fashion game at work yourself, you tacitly agree with the idea that people can and should succeed based on appearances and not on merit.
Is this really what we should think about the way people dress?
I'm OK with expressing oneself through clothing. But I tend to think if someone is shallow enough to judge me based on my appearance, then I don't really care what they think.
posted by themadjuggler at 7:33 PM on October 11, 2007
By attributing any value to the appearance of others, you are, quite literally, being superficial. By playing the fashion game at work yourself, you tacitly agree with the idea that people can and should succeed based on appearances and not on merit.
Is this really what we should think about the way people dress?
- "If you have time to iron your shirt, apply makeup, etc, this is probably because you are organized."
- "i look at sloppy people and subconsciously wonder, if they can't even manage to care for their own body & hair, and maintain a working wardrobe of 12 shirts, 5 pairs of pants, and 2 pairs of shoes, how the heck should i trust them with anything else?"
- "I think a sloppy dresser is a sloppy person in other areas as well."
I'm OK with expressing oneself through clothing. But I tend to think if someone is shallow enough to judge me based on my appearance, then I don't really care what they think.
posted by themadjuggler at 7:33 PM on October 11, 2007
then I don't really care what they think.
Maybe a good rule with respect to friends and romantic partners. But this is not about deciding who to be friends with. This is about professional contacts, where it does often make a big difference what they think of us, and we often can't just "opt out" of dealing with them.
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:35 PM on October 11, 2007
Maybe a good rule with respect to friends and romantic partners. But this is not about deciding who to be friends with. This is about professional contacts, where it does often make a big difference what they think of us, and we often can't just "opt out" of dealing with them.
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:35 PM on October 11, 2007
By attributing any value to the appearance of others, you are, quite literally, being superficial. By playing the fashion game at work yourself, you tacitly agree with the idea that people can and should succeed based on appearances and not on merit.
Where do you draw the line? Do you apply this standard to personal hygiene as well? Having stinky armpits and clothes that smell...well, like unwashed laundry...doesn't actually harm anyone, after all. Just a superficial thing that we should all graciously ignore if the person does their job well?
posted by desuetude at 9:22 PM on October 11, 2007
Where do you draw the line? Do you apply this standard to personal hygiene as well? Having stinky armpits and clothes that smell...well, like unwashed laundry...doesn't actually harm anyone, after all. Just a superficial thing that we should all graciously ignore if the person does their job well?
posted by desuetude at 9:22 PM on October 11, 2007
By attributing any value to the appearance of others, you are, quite literally, being superficial. By playing the fashion game at work yourself, you tacitly agree with the idea that people can and should succeed based on appearances and not on merit.
Humans respond to non-verbal cues all the time; how does it make you feel when someone smiles at you? I think that putting the blame on the observer alone for any impression given by an individual is a cop-out. Sure, there are people who do make judgements about other people's worth by the brand of handbag they carry, but everybody responds to impressions that others project, consciously or otherwise. Very few people in this thread are talking about "fashion", they're talking about understanding human responses and choosing to modify them in very simple ways. Judging other people as being "superficial" is failing to acknowledge a basic human characteristic that we all share. I take responsibility for people's reaction to my appearance because that means I can control that response. It's a lot more fun than being the victim of society or fashion or whatever you want to call it; and it means that when I go home from work in my grubby clothes all covered with dirt, I can enjoy the fact that no one wants to sit next to me on the train and I get an entire seat to myself.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:08 PM on October 11, 2007
Humans respond to non-verbal cues all the time; how does it make you feel when someone smiles at you? I think that putting the blame on the observer alone for any impression given by an individual is a cop-out. Sure, there are people who do make judgements about other people's worth by the brand of handbag they carry, but everybody responds to impressions that others project, consciously or otherwise. Very few people in this thread are talking about "fashion", they're talking about understanding human responses and choosing to modify them in very simple ways. Judging other people as being "superficial" is failing to acknowledge a basic human characteristic that we all share. I take responsibility for people's reaction to my appearance because that means I can control that response. It's a lot more fun than being the victim of society or fashion or whatever you want to call it; and it means that when I go home from work in my grubby clothes all covered with dirt, I can enjoy the fact that no one wants to sit next to me on the train and I get an entire seat to myself.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:08 PM on October 11, 2007
desuetude
I think you draw the line at what actually affects your work and your workplace. Smelling bad (along with working naked or dressed up as Spiderman) can seriously distract people. I don't think sneakers, t-shirts and jeans with a few holes are going to have quite the same effect.
oneirodynia
Good points about humans and non-verbal cues. However, enjoying these specific modes of dress is pretty far from a "basic human characteristic" and business dress is pretty far from any kind of authentic self-expression. I see it more as an unfavorable learned behavior within which people are constrained. Even if it's a shared cultural practice, I don't see it as any more valid than, say the national anthem at sporting events.
posted by themadjuggler at 11:22 PM on October 11, 2007
I think you draw the line at what actually affects your work and your workplace. Smelling bad (along with working naked or dressed up as Spiderman) can seriously distract people. I don't think sneakers, t-shirts and jeans with a few holes are going to have quite the same effect.
oneirodynia
Good points about humans and non-verbal cues. However, enjoying these specific modes of dress is pretty far from a "basic human characteristic" and business dress is pretty far from any kind of authentic self-expression. I see it more as an unfavorable learned behavior within which people are constrained. Even if it's a shared cultural practice, I don't see it as any more valid than, say the national anthem at sporting events.
posted by themadjuggler at 11:22 PM on October 11, 2007
Seriously, I would find it distracting if my colleagues came to work in ripped jeans. Of course business dress can be authentic self-expression...there is a lot of variation within the parameters of "appropriate."
Manner of dress has been used to communicate since...what...the invention of clothing? Before?
posted by desuetude at 7:47 AM on October 12, 2007
Manner of dress has been used to communicate since...what...the invention of clothing? Before?
posted by desuetude at 7:47 AM on October 12, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by dead_ at 10:06 AM on October 11, 2007