Paranoid Landlady
September 20, 2007 8:03 PM Subscribe
My friends' landlady is clearly paranoid and harassing my friends. What can they do?
So, my friends have an adorable 16-mo. old son, and rent an apartment in the Bronx. As their credit histories were a little thin, the landlady insisted upon two months rent as a security deposit ($2800). This is in addition to the first month's rent, for a grand total of $4200. A little steep, but they needed a place here.
They've been living there for the past four months. During this time, the landlady has accused them of smoking in the apartment just about every month, some months two or three times. My friends would NEVER endanger the welfare of their son, nor their lease (and their nearly $3k, which the landlady says she will keep if they break their lease).
Just today the landlady came upstairs to finally install their legally-required window guards. During this 45-minute procedure (that she never actually finished) she accused them yet again of smoking in the apartment. In addition, she accused them of spraying roach spray down the vent, but only when she's in the bathroom. [She started this conversation by asking if my friends have some sort of "personal war" against her.] She then spent an additional 1.5-hours searching the apartment for roach spray or cigarettes, neither of which my friends have, and again, would never use around their son.
She also informed my friends that the downstairs tenants got evicted for smoking, even though they obviously weren't (i.e. my friends would have smelled the smoke too). Also, the people who lived in my friends' apartment before them were kicked out for (allegedly) smoking.
When my friend asked why the landlady was harassing her, she said that she knew the law regarding harassment, and she wasn't doing it. In addition, that the downstairs tenants had filed a report, and that she knew the right people to make sure she "got what she needed". Which is apparently this entire building to herself. She says she's done it before—the apartments were vacant for months before my friends moved in.
The landlady keeps her (ground-floor) windows open all the time, which does not fit with her claims of allergies. Previously there have been scents that were coming off the street that she attributed to my friends.
What are my friends' rights in this situation?
How can they prove that they are not smoking/spraying/whatever?
Can they get the landlady on harassment? They have been taking notes, documenting what and when she makes such accusations.
Was the 2-month security deposit legal?
I'm sorry for the massively long background and for stacking questions, but this has got my friends at wit's end. It does not help that one of them just moved here from another city, and is having a hard time adjusting.
Thanks all.
So, my friends have an adorable 16-mo. old son, and rent an apartment in the Bronx. As their credit histories were a little thin, the landlady insisted upon two months rent as a security deposit ($2800). This is in addition to the first month's rent, for a grand total of $4200. A little steep, but they needed a place here.
They've been living there for the past four months. During this time, the landlady has accused them of smoking in the apartment just about every month, some months two or three times. My friends would NEVER endanger the welfare of their son, nor their lease (and their nearly $3k, which the landlady says she will keep if they break their lease).
Just today the landlady came upstairs to finally install their legally-required window guards. During this 45-minute procedure (that she never actually finished) she accused them yet again of smoking in the apartment. In addition, she accused them of spraying roach spray down the vent, but only when she's in the bathroom. [She started this conversation by asking if my friends have some sort of "personal war" against her.] She then spent an additional 1.5-hours searching the apartment for roach spray or cigarettes, neither of which my friends have, and again, would never use around their son.
She also informed my friends that the downstairs tenants got evicted for smoking, even though they obviously weren't (i.e. my friends would have smelled the smoke too). Also, the people who lived in my friends' apartment before them were kicked out for (allegedly) smoking.
When my friend asked why the landlady was harassing her, she said that she knew the law regarding harassment, and she wasn't doing it. In addition, that the downstairs tenants had filed a report, and that she knew the right people to make sure she "got what she needed". Which is apparently this entire building to herself. She says she's done it before—the apartments were vacant for months before my friends moved in.
The landlady keeps her (ground-floor) windows open all the time, which does not fit with her claims of allergies. Previously there have been scents that were coming off the street that she attributed to my friends.
What are my friends' rights in this situation?
How can they prove that they are not smoking/spraying/whatever?
Can they get the landlady on harassment? They have been taking notes, documenting what and when she makes such accusations.
Was the 2-month security deposit legal?
I'm sorry for the massively long background and for stacking questions, but this has got my friends at wit's end. It does not help that one of them just moved here from another city, and is having a hard time adjusting.
Thanks all.
It might be worthwhile to try to get a look at the report filed against the landlady by the recently-evicted neighbours. It might come in handy should you get evicted for the exact same reason, and want to contest that.
posted by flibbertigibbet at 8:47 PM on September 20, 2007
posted by flibbertigibbet at 8:47 PM on September 20, 2007
It sounds like they should move, timing it to run out the last two months rent that they've paid for in advance.
posted by alms at 8:52 PM on September 20, 2007
posted by alms at 8:52 PM on September 20, 2007
They may not be able to completely rid themselves of her, but they can certainly mitigate the level of nuisance she poses to them, especially with regard to frequency and intrusiveness of inspections. This is what tenants' rights laws are for. Generally speaking a tenancy contract is for the "use and enjoyment" of the property.
There may be some useful information here. Local welfare agencies would be able to provide some basic information, such as pamphlet guides to tenancy law, and point your friends in the right direction to get better advice. Certainly don't believe the landlady herself.
Exactly what they can do about it will depend on local laws.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 8:59 PM on September 20, 2007
There may be some useful information here. Local welfare agencies would be able to provide some basic information, such as pamphlet guides to tenancy law, and point your friends in the right direction to get better advice. Certainly don't believe the landlady herself.
Exactly what they can do about it will depend on local laws.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 8:59 PM on September 20, 2007
A camcorder is a wonderful way to document impromptu, unauthorized inspections as well as other threats and complaints.
posted by ikkyu2 at 9:59 PM on September 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by ikkyu2 at 9:59 PM on September 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
They absolutely have rights here that they ought to be asserting, if they can't afford a lawyer (and yeah it probably wouldn't be worth it), they should contact a tenant rights association, that can probably give them some really good information. Google away shouldn't be hard to find. Also, if they move out and she takes all the $, they should definitely take her to small claims court. It is really easy to file a claim in small claims court, so tell them not to be intimidated by the legal system, it's there to help them. Also, tell them to document, document, document, what is going on. Keep a little journal, take pictures all the time, that sort of thing. I would personally give her 30 days, make it real clear to her that they know their rights and will take her to small claims, and then see what she does.
posted by whoaali at 10:01 PM on September 20, 2007
posted by whoaali at 10:01 PM on September 20, 2007
She's accusing them of smoking because secondhand smoke is convenient and hard-to-disprove grounds for eviction.
AHHHH, BUT a landlord's failure to prevent secondhand smoke infiltration is also grounds for breaking one's lease. Turn the tables. Stop denying that there's smoke smell or any other noxious smells[*]. Report it first from now on. Be outraged. She's said it herself: it's stronger on their floor than hers! Why, they practically have to fight through a cloud of it just to get into their apartment! Oh, the humanity.
Write letters documenting every admission she's made that she's been aware of the odors for at least four months, smelled them herself, received other complaints, etc. Demand she take immediate action to stop it.
Look, her behavior demonstrates that no matter what, the only way they're getting that deposit back is through small claims court. Sucks, but she's made that much plain. But your friends can have a major sympathetic advantage on that battlefield: their baby's vulnerable lungs. Why, if there are all these persistent fumes and smoke as she's already admitted so many times, it's positively uninhabitable for a 16 month year old. The family didn't voluntarily leave, your honor, the landlord committed constructive eviction.... We couldn't possibly keep subjecting a baby to fumes so strong that even a grown woman all the way down on the ground floor found overwhelming...
Meanwhile, they need to find out what the laws do say about harassment. If they're able to prove that's what she's up to, she can be fined $5k per violation.
(*MAJOR CAVEAT: they absolutely need to run this situation by a lawyer first. As you'll note from the linked article, the financial stakes potentially go beyond the $3k deposit. Either the landlady, or else they, are going to be held responsible for her imaginary smoke cloud. Mishandling the situation carries too much risk to let the internets be their only guide.)
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 10:06 PM on September 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
AHHHH, BUT a landlord's failure to prevent secondhand smoke infiltration is also grounds for breaking one's lease. Turn the tables. Stop denying that there's smoke smell or any other noxious smells[*]. Report it first from now on. Be outraged. She's said it herself: it's stronger on their floor than hers! Why, they practically have to fight through a cloud of it just to get into their apartment! Oh, the humanity.
Write letters documenting every admission she's made that she's been aware of the odors for at least four months, smelled them herself, received other complaints, etc. Demand she take immediate action to stop it.
Look, her behavior demonstrates that no matter what, the only way they're getting that deposit back is through small claims court. Sucks, but she's made that much plain. But your friends can have a major sympathetic advantage on that battlefield: their baby's vulnerable lungs. Why, if there are all these persistent fumes and smoke as she's already admitted so many times, it's positively uninhabitable for a 16 month year old. The family didn't voluntarily leave, your honor, the landlord committed constructive eviction.... We couldn't possibly keep subjecting a baby to fumes so strong that even a grown woman all the way down on the ground floor found overwhelming...
Meanwhile, they need to find out what the laws do say about harassment. If they're able to prove that's what she's up to, she can be fined $5k per violation.
(*MAJOR CAVEAT: they absolutely need to run this situation by a lawyer first. As you'll note from the linked article, the financial stakes potentially go beyond the $3k deposit. Either the landlady, or else they, are going to be held responsible for her imaginary smoke cloud. Mishandling the situation carries too much risk to let the internets be their only guide.)
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 10:06 PM on September 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
Was the 2-month security deposit legal?
Fairly certain it's illegal in NYC for a landlord to demand more than one months security (last month + security is another matter), but IANAL or an expert—however there are lots of non-profit tenant's rights organizations in the city, your friends would be far better off getting in touch with one of them immediately as they will have more relevant experience and better advice (including recommendations of landlord-fighting lawyers) than anyone on this board is likely to have.
posted by lia at 11:14 PM on September 20, 2007
Fairly certain it's illegal in NYC for a landlord to demand more than one months security (last month + security is another matter), but IANAL or an expert—however there are lots of non-profit tenant's rights organizations in the city, your friends would be far better off getting in touch with one of them immediately as they will have more relevant experience and better advice (including recommendations of landlord-fighting lawyers) than anyone on this board is likely to have.
posted by lia at 11:14 PM on September 20, 2007
Perhaps your friends could wait until the next harassment, document it, and then go get tested for nicotene? (They'd want to set this up so that they could go dash and do this, it's not clear for how long (the in this case alleged) nicotene is detectable.)
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:16 PM on September 20, 2007
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:16 PM on September 20, 2007
There are plenty of passive smoking tests, ofcourse she probably won't take any more notice of that than of the fact that your friend's don't smoke.
Seems like your friend's are having more than a normal level of contact with their landlady. Is she giving reasonable notice before entering the apartment? She may only enter the apartment at previously arranged and agreed times. If she was permitted access to the apartment to fit the window guards then it was illegal for her to conduct a search of the apartment. Tenants have a right to privacy.
This might help
posted by missmagenta at 12:41 AM on September 21, 2007
Seems like your friend's are having more than a normal level of contact with their landlady. Is she giving reasonable notice before entering the apartment? She may only enter the apartment at previously arranged and agreed times. If she was permitted access to the apartment to fit the window guards then it was illegal for her to conduct a search of the apartment. Tenants have a right to privacy.
This might help
posted by missmagenta at 12:41 AM on September 21, 2007
It's an entirely crap situation, but at this point I would suggest that your friends either (A) call their local tenants rights organization, report everything - including the threat of assault - and then file a police report if necessary to ensure their safety, and (B) get the hell out of there.
They paid a probably illegal two months' worth of security. Fine - that's two months for them to secure another apartment. This woman is obviously a kook, and sometimes, it's just better to walk away. They won't get a reference out of her, but she seems to be the sort who wouldn't give a good reference no matter what they did.
posted by ellF at 4:01 AM on September 21, 2007
They paid a probably illegal two months' worth of security. Fine - that's two months for them to secure another apartment. This woman is obviously a kook, and sometimes, it's just better to walk away. They won't get a reference out of her, but she seems to be the sort who wouldn't give a good reference no matter what they did.
posted by ellF at 4:01 AM on September 21, 2007
nakedcodemonkey, that's genius. Especially since, in NYC, they shouldn't even have to lie -- there's plenty of random odors wafting about.
posted by desuetude at 6:23 AM on September 21, 2007
posted by desuetude at 6:23 AM on September 21, 2007
Is there some special clause in the lease? Because, last I checked, smoking cigarettes was actually still allowed in apartments, even in NYC.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 6:40 AM on September 21, 2007
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 6:40 AM on September 21, 2007
Just a bite north on 95 I had to pay the same amount for my apartment in CT so I am sure it is legal.
1 option might be to urge the landlord to install better smoke detectors – I can’t say if they exist but I’m sure there is something out there (detectors in airplane bathrooms) that would ensure no smoking (I would worry though about cooking setting off the detector).
The camcorder idea is excellent, just turn it on and leave it in the open on a table/mantle right before she comes in and let it roll. If it ever comes up you can say you were about to tape the baby for the grandparents.
I also believe it is at the discretion of the owner if you can use your deposit for the last months rent so unless it had been documented I wouldn’t recommend. Good luck!
posted by doorsfan at 7:22 AM on September 21, 2007
1 option might be to urge the landlord to install better smoke detectors – I can’t say if they exist but I’m sure there is something out there (detectors in airplane bathrooms) that would ensure no smoking (I would worry though about cooking setting off the detector).
The camcorder idea is excellent, just turn it on and leave it in the open on a table/mantle right before she comes in and let it roll. If it ever comes up you can say you were about to tape the baby for the grandparents.
I also believe it is at the discretion of the owner if you can use your deposit for the last months rent so unless it had been documented I wouldn’t recommend. Good luck!
posted by doorsfan at 7:22 AM on September 21, 2007
They can file a harassment complaint with DHCR. I don't know how much actual effect it will have, but it would create a paper trail. It would also set up a possible retaliatory eviction defense if the landlady decides to sue them.
If your friends have a lease, the landlady can't evict them for second-hand smoke (unless it's not a standard lease and there is some clause to that effect in there). She can try, and she can put your friends through hell by suing them in housing court, but the standard for evicting someone in NYC for being a nuisance is extremely high.
Your friends should put their foot down and stop letting this woman into their apartment. They should let her know in writing that they will no longer be allowing her access without notice, except in the case of an emergency. They do have to allow access to repair housing code violations and in emergencies, but if it's not an emergency then they have a right to notice. They should continue to document every inappropriate action.
If they think they can stick it out through the end of their lease, then they can try using their security deposit for the last couple of months rent, even though that's technically not allowed.
If they think the landlady is going to sue them, they should be aware of the tenant blacklist and weigh the risks of fighting in court vs. cutting their losses and getting out of the apartment. As someone else said, small claims court is the way to get a security deposit back.
Finally, if their credit is not good and their landlady is crazy, they should be sure to pay their rent on time or early and keep copies of the cancelled checks, because they are not going to get a letter of recommendation from her when they leave.
Your friends can find more information about housing in NYC at www.tenant.net, the New York City Bar Association, the City Wide Task Force on Housing Court, and www.lawhelp.org (put in the zip code, click on the Know Your Rights tab for fact sheets).
posted by Mavri at 7:46 AM on September 21, 2007
If your friends have a lease, the landlady can't evict them for second-hand smoke (unless it's not a standard lease and there is some clause to that effect in there). She can try, and she can put your friends through hell by suing them in housing court, but the standard for evicting someone in NYC for being a nuisance is extremely high.
Your friends should put their foot down and stop letting this woman into their apartment. They should let her know in writing that they will no longer be allowing her access without notice, except in the case of an emergency. They do have to allow access to repair housing code violations and in emergencies, but if it's not an emergency then they have a right to notice. They should continue to document every inappropriate action.
If they think they can stick it out through the end of their lease, then they can try using their security deposit for the last couple of months rent, even though that's technically not allowed.
If they think the landlady is going to sue them, they should be aware of the tenant blacklist and weigh the risks of fighting in court vs. cutting their losses and getting out of the apartment. As someone else said, small claims court is the way to get a security deposit back.
Finally, if their credit is not good and their landlady is crazy, they should be sure to pay their rent on time or early and keep copies of the cancelled checks, because they are not going to get a letter of recommendation from her when they leave.
Your friends can find more information about housing in NYC at www.tenant.net, the New York City Bar Association, the City Wide Task Force on Housing Court, and www.lawhelp.org (put in the zip code, click on the Know Your Rights tab for fact sheets).
posted by Mavri at 7:46 AM on September 21, 2007
last I checked, smoking cigarettes was actually still allowed in apartments, even in NYC
You haven't checked recently enough. As of last year, if anyone else is bothered by your smoke -- even from your own apt -- you can be evicted, per the article I linked to above:
You haven't checked recently enough. As of last year, if anyone else is bothered by your smoke -- even from your own apt -- you can be evicted, per the article I linked to above:
It's a decision that made the news and has been analyzed by commentators in such publications as The New York Times and the New York Law Journal... As a result of this decision, apartment dwellers may want to think twice before "lighting up" in the privacy of their own homes. Not only can such conduct subject them to eviction, but there may also be liability for damages arising from any rent (or "maintenance") credits that may issue together with such other compensation that be awarded to neighbors under an array of cognizable legal theories, like negligence or breach or contract....Posted by Lucas A. Ferrara, Esq. on October 9, 2006 8:25 AM (emphasis added)posted by nakedcodemonkey at 9:37 AM on September 21, 2007
Response by poster: Mavri: "Finally, if their credit is not good and their landlady is crazy, they should be sure to pay their rent on time or early and keep copies of the cancelled checks, because they are not going to get a letter of recommendation from her when they leave."
They actually pay their rent with cashier's checks to avoid this very situation.
posted by Xoder at 8:52 PM on September 21, 2007
They actually pay their rent with cashier's checks to avoid this very situation.
posted by Xoder at 8:52 PM on September 21, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by oaf at 8:14 PM on September 20, 2007