How many organizations are fading away due to a generation gap?
September 18, 2007 11:04 AM Subscribe
How many organizations are fading away due to a generation gap?
My mom went to a Knights of Columbus bingo game the other day and commented on how old everyone is (she's a spring chicken at 67 apparently) and she was the youngest in the group.
So it got me thinking.. how many organizations like this fade away because of a generational gap or lack of interest? I know military organizations for veterans and the like have seen a sharp decline, but are there others like them also declining? Also, with the abundant popularity of online groups.. is this the death of meetings held in buildings once a month or will they just have meet-ups every blue moon?
It just seems like we're losing an institution. However, I could just be blowing things out of proportion just from one simple comment my mom made.
My mom went to a Knights of Columbus bingo game the other day and commented on how old everyone is (she's a spring chicken at 67 apparently) and she was the youngest in the group.
So it got me thinking.. how many organizations like this fade away because of a generational gap or lack of interest? I know military organizations for veterans and the like have seen a sharp decline, but are there others like them also declining? Also, with the abundant popularity of online groups.. is this the death of meetings held in buildings once a month or will they just have meet-ups every blue moon?
It just seems like we're losing an institution. However, I could just be blowing things out of proportion just from one simple comment my mom made.
I think all the fraternal organizations (freemasons, oddfellows, etc) are concerned about a lack of young members.
posted by doppleradar at 11:10 AM on September 18, 2007
posted by doppleradar at 11:10 AM on September 18, 2007
This is sort-of chatfilter, but this is really happening everywhere. For one example -- I have a ham license that I got in the mid 90s to do packet radio, and did some two-meter work -- every single person I talked to was at least 40 (I was in my mid 20s). Now with 802.11(a/b/g), I think ham radio is probably less popular than it's ever been.
Weren't the Freemasons involved in some sort of low-key membership drive recently due to falling numbers? When the Masons need to do publicity, they must be hurting.
posted by the dief at 11:10 AM on September 18, 2007
Weren't the Freemasons involved in some sort of low-key membership drive recently due to falling numbers? When the Masons need to do publicity, they must be hurting.
posted by the dief at 11:10 AM on September 18, 2007
Check out what happened with the Grand Army of the Republic.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 11:13 AM on September 18, 2007
posted by kuujjuarapik at 11:13 AM on September 18, 2007
Take a look at the recent MeFi discussion on The Grange.
posted by ALongDecember at 11:17 AM on September 18, 2007
posted by ALongDecember at 11:17 AM on September 18, 2007
Weren't the Freemasons involved in some sort of low-key membership drive recently due to falling numbers?
They sponsored a NASCAR team.
posted by mmascolino at 11:20 AM on September 18, 2007
They sponsored a NASCAR team.
posted by mmascolino at 11:20 AM on September 18, 2007
Many traditional (as opposed to non-denominational, "seeker-driven", mega-) churches have this problem.
And monasteries and nunneries, of course, seem to be dying out.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 11:24 AM on September 18, 2007
And monasteries and nunneries, of course, seem to be dying out.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 11:24 AM on September 18, 2007
There was an article in the New Yorker recently about bridge clubs and how they are mostly populated by very old people these days. The reporter was in his fifties and said he was usually the youngest at bridge clubs and bridge tournaments.
posted by sutel at 11:41 AM on September 18, 2007
posted by sutel at 11:41 AM on September 18, 2007
This page specifies a median age of 49, which is a good deal higher than the median age of 35 recorded for the general population during the last census.
Why is this the case?
Here are a few guesses:
KoC is a religiously-themed organization. Young people in general, and recent generations in particular, are less likely to be enamoured with organized religion.
In addition, the relatively open environment in which many of them were raised allowed them to develop friendship networks beyond those who shared their beliefs. Since their good friends are less likely to be members of KoC, there is less incentive for them to go.
And if they're anything like me, they'd rather watch Gigli twice in succession than play Bingo with old folks.
Gobble Gobble.
posted by The Confessor at 11:46 AM on September 18, 2007
Why is this the case?
Here are a few guesses:
KoC is a religiously-themed organization. Young people in general, and recent generations in particular, are less likely to be enamoured with organized religion.
In addition, the relatively open environment in which many of them were raised allowed them to develop friendship networks beyond those who shared their beliefs. Since their good friends are less likely to be members of KoC, there is less incentive for them to go.
And if they're anything like me, they'd rather watch Gigli twice in succession than play Bingo with old folks.
Gobble Gobble.
posted by The Confessor at 11:46 AM on September 18, 2007
A possible answer to your question is:
Look at all these people out here on MeFi. Maybe this is gonna be the new Masons, or maybe some of us would've joined some organization if it weren't for the ease of the internets. Maybe in web communities the secret handshake is replaced by the inside joke.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 11:57 AM on September 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
Look at all these people out here on MeFi. Maybe this is gonna be the new Masons, or maybe some of us would've joined some organization if it weren't for the ease of the internets. Maybe in web communities the secret handshake is replaced by the inside joke.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 11:57 AM on September 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
I first noticed this over a decade ago.
It's not just the KoC. I know the Mason's have had problems, and in Seattle the Odd Fellow's local on Capitol Hill was taken over by two shady characters who dipped really deep into the rental fees they were extracting for use of the hall. Eventually the national org stepped in and did something about it.
There used to be a lot of these non-profit, largely volunteer community organizations that provided a means for socialization, community involvement and sometimes, an avenue for intellectual fulfillment or self expression. Many while not overtly religious had at least loose affiliations with, if not a church, then their congregations, but others were devoutly secular.
They had the confidence to build their own halls, but that confidence was probably part of their undoing. Society changed and they weren't able to adapt.
I think increasing geographic mobility didn't help them. On the one hand these organizations provided a natural way to integrate with a new community if someone relocated. On the other hand, fewer and fewer children were living in the communities they grew up in, which interferes with parents and aunts and uncles bringing the next generation into the institutions they belonged to.
The changing role of women also had a big impact. Women had other demands on their time and avenues for fulfillment which took a toll on a lot of women's organizations. Recently the organization of alumni women at my alma mater, which had stood for the better part of a century voted to disband itself -- their youngest member was in her 50's, (while many of the older members had probably gotten involved in their 20s) and they saw the writing on the wall.
The changing role of women may also have had an indirect impact on mens organizations. Men are generally expected to carry more of the weight of running a household than they were when their main role was breadwinner and handyman, which makes holding regular meetings harder.
What I wonder about is how the gap has been filled as these institutions have declined. Some of it has been commercialized, and I think online communities have filled some of the voids in the last decade, but my guess is that I'm missing a lot.
posted by Good Brain at 12:01 PM on September 18, 2007 [2 favorites]
It's not just the KoC. I know the Mason's have had problems, and in Seattle the Odd Fellow's local on Capitol Hill was taken over by two shady characters who dipped really deep into the rental fees they were extracting for use of the hall. Eventually the national org stepped in and did something about it.
There used to be a lot of these non-profit, largely volunteer community organizations that provided a means for socialization, community involvement and sometimes, an avenue for intellectual fulfillment or self expression. Many while not overtly religious had at least loose affiliations with, if not a church, then their congregations, but others were devoutly secular.
They had the confidence to build their own halls, but that confidence was probably part of their undoing. Society changed and they weren't able to adapt.
I think increasing geographic mobility didn't help them. On the one hand these organizations provided a natural way to integrate with a new community if someone relocated. On the other hand, fewer and fewer children were living in the communities they grew up in, which interferes with parents and aunts and uncles bringing the next generation into the institutions they belonged to.
The changing role of women also had a big impact. Women had other demands on their time and avenues for fulfillment which took a toll on a lot of women's organizations. Recently the organization of alumni women at my alma mater, which had stood for the better part of a century voted to disband itself -- their youngest member was in her 50's, (while many of the older members had probably gotten involved in their 20s) and they saw the writing on the wall.
The changing role of women may also have had an indirect impact on mens organizations. Men are generally expected to carry more of the weight of running a household than they were when their main role was breadwinner and handyman, which makes holding regular meetings harder.
What I wonder about is how the gap has been filled as these institutions have declined. Some of it has been commercialized, and I think online communities have filled some of the voids in the last decade, but my guess is that I'm missing a lot.
posted by Good Brain at 12:01 PM on September 18, 2007 [2 favorites]
I can confirm that the Masons have been recruiting at the college I went to, a top-15 American university. I knew one of the guys who joined.
posted by limeonaire at 12:10 PM on September 18, 2007
posted by limeonaire at 12:10 PM on September 18, 2007
It's not just volunteering and civic clubs. Arts organizations - including orchestras, theaters, and museums, for example - are struggling in North America as patrons grow older and attendance at performances and exhibitions declines steadily.
posted by bassjump at 12:19 PM on September 18, 2007
posted by bassjump at 12:19 PM on September 18, 2007
I'm with Good Brain. There's simply more things for people to do then there were even twenty years ago.
In my own experience, I've seen volunteer fire departments lose membership and slowly convert to paid staff. People may feel they're part of a community, but that community isn't necessarily limited by geography. Once that link to the physical community is lost, the desire to volunteer service in that community goes with it. It becomes yet another service that magically gets done, but with which we have no personal involvement.
Some organizations, particularly those associated with WWII, are by nature destined to disappear. My father is a member of the Guadalcanal Veterans group (among others), they continue to have conventions but with fewer members each time. He's 85, the youngest members are at least 80. Recruiting isn't an option. There's only one direction for things to go.
posted by tommasz at 12:24 PM on September 18, 2007
In my own experience, I've seen volunteer fire departments lose membership and slowly convert to paid staff. People may feel they're part of a community, but that community isn't necessarily limited by geography. Once that link to the physical community is lost, the desire to volunteer service in that community goes with it. It becomes yet another service that magically gets done, but with which we have no personal involvement.
Some organizations, particularly those associated with WWII, are by nature destined to disappear. My father is a member of the Guadalcanal Veterans group (among others), they continue to have conventions but with fewer members each time. He's 85, the youngest members are at least 80. Recruiting isn't an option. There's only one direction for things to go.
posted by tommasz at 12:24 PM on September 18, 2007
Re: the Oddfellows. Here is a great little article explaining a bit in a microcosm of why one Odd Fellows' nursing home is closing.
These organizations used to be not only social, but a form of retirement insurance/social security. The article is actually quite detailed about the forces at work.
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:36 PM on September 18, 2007
These organizations used to be not only social, but a form of retirement insurance/social security. The article is actually quite detailed about the forces at work.
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:36 PM on September 18, 2007
Bowling Alone ftw---anyone here a member of a bowling league? I'm sure that since there are Masons (like me) and Kof C there are a few out there, but Putnam's point is that people expend their social capital in different ways now.
I was at a lodge meeting last night and about half the guys there were under 45-50, but the national average for masonic lodges is over 75. One problem Masons have is that it's fairly difficult to even join the organization. I don't know what your experience was limeonaire, but one of the core tenets of freemasonry is that they don't recruit (2B1 ASK1). Once you do decide to join, you have to seek out a lodge, get to know some guys, go through an interview process, go through the initiation process, and then memorize a bunch of stuff. All of this can take up to six months or more--just to join. I agree with Good Brain that the role of women in society has also contributed to the decline of these organizations. In the 1950s it was no big deal for a working man to have an evening or two every week out with the lodge. Now, many men (like me) consider themselves equal with their partners and want to come home immediately from work to co-parent or whatever and not go to a lodge meeting all night. It's tough.
posted by mattbucher at 12:37 PM on September 18, 2007
I was at a lodge meeting last night and about half the guys there were under 45-50, but the national average for masonic lodges is over 75. One problem Masons have is that it's fairly difficult to even join the organization. I don't know what your experience was limeonaire, but one of the core tenets of freemasonry is that they don't recruit (2B1 ASK1). Once you do decide to join, you have to seek out a lodge, get to know some guys, go through an interview process, go through the initiation process, and then memorize a bunch of stuff. All of this can take up to six months or more--just to join. I agree with Good Brain that the role of women in society has also contributed to the decline of these organizations. In the 1950s it was no big deal for a working man to have an evening or two every week out with the lodge. Now, many men (like me) consider themselves equal with their partners and want to come home immediately from work to co-parent or whatever and not go to a lodge meeting all night. It's tough.
posted by mattbucher at 12:37 PM on September 18, 2007
Response by poster: I do know that the Masons have their younger groups like Rainbow for Girls and DeMolay and you basically graduate to the Masons and Eastern Star, and that's what kept them going.
posted by czechmate at 12:43 PM on September 18, 2007
posted by czechmate at 12:43 PM on September 18, 2007
A slight derail, but I can confirm limeonaire's account (although probably at a different school)--the lodge ran ads in the campus paper.
posted by phoenixy at 12:56 PM on September 18, 2007
posted by phoenixy at 12:56 PM on September 18, 2007
I think the Boy Scouts are also fading. I have no hard data to back this up, just an impression. But if you're willing to research it, I'd guess the numbers would confirm it.
posted by ObscureReferenceMan at 12:59 PM on September 18, 2007
posted by ObscureReferenceMan at 12:59 PM on September 18, 2007
My local Moose Lodge is/was having this problem with their sister-organization, "The Women of the Moose".
My brother and a decent amount of their friends were all members (all in their 20's) because the lodge was a laid back and cheap place to drink, play darts, watch football.
The lodge ran into some kind of trouble in regards to documenting their guests, and all regular female guests (mostly in their 20's) were encouraged to join the Women of the Moose so everyone would be legit, with the added bonus of injecting new blood into the organization. A few of us went into it with sincere intentions, looking to contribute to the organization and such, but pretty much every suggestion we made was shut down by the old bags. So we stopped going & now we don't hang out there anymore.
It's kind of sad, really.
posted by redbed at 1:01 PM on September 18, 2007
My brother and a decent amount of their friends were all members (all in their 20's) because the lodge was a laid back and cheap place to drink, play darts, watch football.
The lodge ran into some kind of trouble in regards to documenting their guests, and all regular female guests (mostly in their 20's) were encouraged to join the Women of the Moose so everyone would be legit, with the added bonus of injecting new blood into the organization. A few of us went into it with sincere intentions, looking to contribute to the organization and such, but pretty much every suggestion we made was shut down by the old bags. So we stopped going & now we don't hang out there anymore.
It's kind of sad, really.
posted by redbed at 1:01 PM on September 18, 2007
I wrote an article about this about eight years ago. Kiwanis, K of C, The Elks...all those old social clubs have dwindling memberships because men are taking on more responsibility at home so getting away for an evening meeting is difficult ... add to that fact that we are working longer hours and most companies aren't too keen on the one-hour lunch meetings that take people away from work...and you get the hollow sound at the meetings.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 1:27 PM on September 18, 2007
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 1:27 PM on September 18, 2007
It's also worth considering the death spiral that can occur in declining institutions.
As organizations dwindle, they loose economies of scale, which means that dues don't go as far, which means that the value gained from paying those dues declines, which causes membership rolls to shrink further...
As organizations dwindle, the networking opportunities of being a member shrinks, which reduces the value of being a member, which causes membership rolls to shrink further...
As organizations dwindle, the prestige of being a leader in the organization declines and so fewer people are competing to be leaders and the quality of leadership declines and so there are fewer followers...
The mention of the Elks reminds me of a story I heard about the dynamic at a local Elks chapter. This chapter has a pool and members get either free or discounted use of the pool. Someone got the bright idea of upgrading the pool with slides and diving boards to attract more members. Of course to pay for it, they had to raise dues, which ended up in the loss of more members, which forced dues up again since they had this large fixed cost for the loans and operation of the facility...
posted by Good Brain at 1:43 PM on September 18, 2007
As organizations dwindle, they loose economies of scale, which means that dues don't go as far, which means that the value gained from paying those dues declines, which causes membership rolls to shrink further...
As organizations dwindle, the networking opportunities of being a member shrinks, which reduces the value of being a member, which causes membership rolls to shrink further...
As organizations dwindle, the prestige of being a leader in the organization declines and so fewer people are competing to be leaders and the quality of leadership declines and so there are fewer followers...
The mention of the Elks reminds me of a story I heard about the dynamic at a local Elks chapter. This chapter has a pool and members get either free or discounted use of the pool. Someone got the bright idea of upgrading the pool with slides and diving boards to attract more members. Of course to pay for it, they had to raise dues, which ended up in the loss of more members, which forced dues up again since they had this large fixed cost for the loans and operation of the facility...
posted by Good Brain at 1:43 PM on September 18, 2007
OFR: Boy Scout enrollment has been declining at the same time that the organization has been dealing with lingering controversies about the dismissal of gay and atheist Scout leaders. The number of youths in Scouting programs -- including Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts and coed Venturing groups -- dropped more than 5 percent in 2003 from the year before, to 3.2 million, according to Boy Scout statistics. Via WaPo
posted by the christopher hundreds at 2:00 PM on September 18, 2007
posted by the christopher hundreds at 2:00 PM on September 18, 2007
er, that was supposed to be "ORM" not "OFR."
posted by the christopher hundreds at 2:01 PM on September 18, 2007
posted by the christopher hundreds at 2:01 PM on September 18, 2007
The League of Women Voters has trouble attracting young people to its ranks.
posted by pammo at 3:07 PM on September 18, 2007
posted by pammo at 3:07 PM on September 18, 2007
The League of Women Voters has trouble attracting young people to its ranks.
I can see that. When I tried to get involved with them a year or two ago, I was dismayed to discover that all their meetings were held at times like "11:30 AM on alternate Tuesdays". It seemed to be run by and for retired ladies.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 3:10 PM on September 18, 2007
I can see that. When I tried to get involved with them a year or two ago, I was dismayed to discover that all their meetings were held at times like "11:30 AM on alternate Tuesdays". It seemed to be run by and for retired ladies.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 3:10 PM on September 18, 2007
Around here the Legion, IOOF, Moose, and one of the Lions have all lost their buildings. Much of the reason is because of declining enrolment. One of the driving forces of the decline is clubs used to be places where you could buy alcohol when bars weren't open. Especially the case when you couldn't buy alcohol on weekends. Now that beer is available most places year round and liquor isn't much behind the guys who would join for the drinking don't.
posted by Mitheral at 3:18 PM on September 18, 2007
posted by Mitheral at 3:18 PM on September 18, 2007
Aviation suffers the age gap AND phenomenal expense:
The demographic characteristics of the current pilot population, however, suggest the significant challenge involved in expanding the pilot population and bring into question FAA predictions of significant growth in the pilot population over the next decade. The average age of all pilots currently is 44 and has been increasing over time for all pilot categories; even the average age of a student pilot is 35.25 One-third of all pilots, including student pilots, are more than 50 years old, and more pilots are 55 to 59 than are 25 to 29. The time commitment and out-of-pocket cost of pilot training, which are too high for many younger individuals, may explain this distribution. Moreover, women account for a very small share of all pilots. Despite a doubling of the number of women airline pilots from 1989 to 1998, the total number of women aviators fell by 15 percent during the period. Women now account for less than 6 percent of all pilots. Progress in expanding the demographic base of pilots beyond middle-aged men has been slow, and the obstacles to further expansion— apart from the expense and time required for training—are not well understood. (Source)
In addition to being older men, private pilots are typically older white men in my experience. The lack of diversity is breathtaking. Then there's soaring, where another FAA stat puts the average age at 54. It's a shame.
posted by tss at 4:13 PM on September 18, 2007
The demographic characteristics of the current pilot population, however, suggest the significant challenge involved in expanding the pilot population and bring into question FAA predictions of significant growth in the pilot population over the next decade. The average age of all pilots currently is 44 and has been increasing over time for all pilot categories; even the average age of a student pilot is 35.25 One-third of all pilots, including student pilots, are more than 50 years old, and more pilots are 55 to 59 than are 25 to 29. The time commitment and out-of-pocket cost of pilot training, which are too high for many younger individuals, may explain this distribution. Moreover, women account for a very small share of all pilots. Despite a doubling of the number of women airline pilots from 1989 to 1998, the total number of women aviators fell by 15 percent during the period. Women now account for less than 6 percent of all pilots. Progress in expanding the demographic base of pilots beyond middle-aged men has been slow, and the obstacles to further expansion— apart from the expense and time required for training—are not well understood. (Source)
In addition to being older men, private pilots are typically older white men in my experience. The lack of diversity is breathtaking. Then there's soaring, where another FAA stat puts the average age at 54. It's a shame.
posted by tss at 4:13 PM on September 18, 2007
Knitting is crazy popular at the moment (see Ravelry), yet the Knitters Guild here in NSW seems to be fading. Lots of younger people are happy to turn up for no-commitment stitch-and-bitches, but as soon as you mention the word "guild" they turn off. It sounds too medieval or expert or something. Plus a lot of the local groups have the charming habit of scheduling meetings during the workday. You also run into the problem that the leadership are all retired women, and they're happy to perpetuate lots of bureaucracy simply because it's their hobby and they've got time. The local group I belong to is definitely the youngest of all, and we're viewed as the rebels of the organisation. It's hard for us to effect any real change though, simply because we can only get together once a month and nobody wants to volunteer to sit through two hours of parliamentary procedure at the next Executive Meeting just to raise a point that the Old Ladies are going to vote down anyway...
posted by web-goddess at 5:37 PM on September 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by web-goddess at 5:37 PM on September 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
It seems it wasn't so long ago that I was reading about westerners adopting Buddhism, but that may have been a one-shot cultural wave. Most of the western Buddhists I've known are hippie-aged people, mainly women, and they're getting on in age. Not too many younger folks seem interested, and it may be key that people are mostly not passing it along to other family members. The organizations they founded may not outlast them.
posted by zadcat at 8:49 PM on September 18, 2007
posted by zadcat at 8:49 PM on September 18, 2007
General Aviation is a good example of the way an economic death spiral can afflict institutions and industries. James Fallows describes this in his excellent book "Free Flight" (which is an interesting read now that the light-jet Air Taxi services he wrote about are about to go into operation.
Basically, liability issues drove costs up, which reduced demand, which meant fewer units over which to amortize R&D costs, which made for less R&D, which slowed the pace of innovation. The fact that most planes leaving the (few remaining) factories in the 90's were basically 1950s designs at higher prices (even adjusting for inflation) hurt the industry even more. That lack of innovation didn't help safety either.
posted by Good Brain at 1:43 PM on September 19, 2007
Basically, liability issues drove costs up, which reduced demand, which meant fewer units over which to amortize R&D costs, which made for less R&D, which slowed the pace of innovation. The fact that most planes leaving the (few remaining) factories in the 90's were basically 1950s designs at higher prices (even adjusting for inflation) hurt the industry even more. That lack of innovation didn't help safety either.
posted by Good Brain at 1:43 PM on September 19, 2007
Here's a Marketplace story from last week about service organizations trying to reverse membership declines.
posted by OmieWise at 8:28 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by OmieWise at 8:28 AM on October 2, 2007
Garden clubs...although they tend to also include some middle-aged people as well as older people.
posted by nekton at 12:12 PM on October 10, 2007
posted by nekton at 12:12 PM on October 10, 2007
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posted by ALongDecember at 11:10 AM on September 18, 2007 [1 favorite]