Any battle where there were no survivors?
August 22, 2008 1:01 PM Subscribe
Any battle where there were no survivors? Last two men standing kill each other as well? History preferred, literature accepted.
Not history, not literature, but a cartoon: Peace on Earth.
posted by cog_nate at 1:19 PM on August 22, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by cog_nate at 1:19 PM on August 22, 2008 [2 favorites]
Unanswerable question. Define "battle." I'm sure there've been plenty of firefights that have had no survivors ... and do you define "survivor" as someone who is not injured? Or can it be that they die days later of their injuries?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:26 PM on August 22, 2008
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:26 PM on August 22, 2008
I know this is a bit off the mark (one man survives)
Actually, two men: Ray and Roast Beef both survive, destroying the fight grounds so that one doesn't have to hurt the other. Plus, I'm not sure anyone dies in the GOF, the country-pop singer guy that gets his face ripped off by Ray lives, as do all the guys on Ray's team who were out of the fight but just roughed up a bit.
I've devoted way too many hours to reading Achewood.
posted by DecemberBoy at 1:42 PM on August 22, 2008
Actually, two men: Ray and Roast Beef both survive, destroying the fight grounds so that one doesn't have to hurt the other. Plus, I'm not sure anyone dies in the GOF, the country-pop singer guy that gets his face ripped off by Ray lives, as do all the guys on Ray's team who were out of the fight but just roughed up a bit.
I've devoted way too many hours to reading Achewood.
posted by DecemberBoy at 1:42 PM on August 22, 2008
If you're counting occurrences in nature, there was that snake vs. alligator incident not too long ago.
posted by Metroid Baby at 1:44 PM on August 22, 2008
posted by Metroid Baby at 1:44 PM on August 22, 2008
Are duels allowed? Sometimes both participants are killed:
1609: Sir George Wharton and Sir James Stuart; fought a duel over a game of cards in Islington; both were killed
posted by DarkForest at 1:45 PM on August 22, 2008
1609: Sir George Wharton and Sir James Stuart; fought a duel over a game of cards in Islington; both were killed
posted by DarkForest at 1:45 PM on August 22, 2008
Best answer: The Book of Mormon
Ether 15:31-32
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/15
posted by Bruce H. at 2:17 PM on August 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
Ether 15:31-32
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/15
posted by Bruce H. at 2:17 PM on August 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
Not quite a battle, but the end of McTeague might work.
posted by faunafrailty at 2:22 PM on August 22, 2008
posted by faunafrailty at 2:22 PM on August 22, 2008
Response by poster: Unanswerable question. Define "battle." I'm sure there've been plenty of firefights that have had no survivors ... and do you define "survivor" as someone who is not injured? Or can it be that they die days later of their injuries?
Getting a bit pedantic there, papabell. I deliberately left the definitions loose for maximum coverage. Get with the program, mister! Bruce H. has the right idea.
More always welcome
posted by IndigoJones at 2:30 PM on August 22, 2008
Getting a bit pedantic there, papabell. I deliberately left the definitions loose for maximum coverage. Get with the program, mister! Bruce H. has the right idea.
More always welcome
posted by IndigoJones at 2:30 PM on August 22, 2008
Not an answer, but a possible line of inquiry:
Naval engagements seem like likely battles where both sides could lose all participants. For example, the HMS Sydney was lost with all hands in WWII when sunk by a German ship disguised as a Dutch trader. The German ship also sank by return fire, but there were survivors on the German side. If you could find a similar incident where both sides lost all hands, would that qualify?
posted by justkevin at 2:47 PM on August 22, 2008
Naval engagements seem like likely battles where both sides could lose all participants. For example, the HMS Sydney was lost with all hands in WWII when sunk by a German ship disguised as a Dutch trader. The German ship also sank by return fire, but there were survivors on the German side. If you could find a similar incident where both sides lost all hands, would that qualify?
posted by justkevin at 2:47 PM on August 22, 2008
It's part of a larger engagement... but the kamikaze attack on the John Burke killed the attacker and all hands aboard the ship (which had a cargo of ammunition).
posted by Jahaza at 2:47 PM on August 22, 2008
posted by Jahaza at 2:47 PM on August 22, 2008
Some sources apparently claim there were no survivors at the Battle of Jwa-Won.
posted by Jahaza at 2:52 PM on August 22, 2008
posted by Jahaza at 2:52 PM on August 22, 2008
(Hmm... now I'm not sure if that article means no survivors on one side or both...)
posted by Jahaza at 2:54 PM on August 22, 2008
posted by Jahaza at 2:54 PM on August 22, 2008
Response by poster: If you could find a similar incident where both sides lost all hands, would that qualify?
It's all good, Kevin. THis is pure speculative inquiry, dinner conversation fodder, no useful end to it at all. So yes, navy is a useful line of inquiry. Again, thanks to all.
(And good find Jahaza! I bow to your superior googlefu.)
posted by IndigoJones at 4:00 PM on August 22, 2008
It's all good, Kevin. THis is pure speculative inquiry, dinner conversation fodder, no useful end to it at all. So yes, navy is a useful line of inquiry. Again, thanks to all.
(And good find Jahaza! I bow to your superior googlefu.)
posted by IndigoJones at 4:00 PM on August 22, 2008
There's an old Scots text called The History of the Feuds and Conflicts Among the Clans in the Northern Parts of Scotland and in the Western Isles: from the year M.XX1 unto M.B.C.XIX with accounts of various local set-tos amongst the kind of people who weren't much given to cutting and running. The account of the Troubles in the Island of Raasay in 1611 ends with a tale of a fight on a ship that came into Raasay harbour where the defenders succeeded in killing all who attempted to board leaving just three of their own side survivors, who then subsequently died after they put to sea.
posted by Abiezer at 4:22 PM on August 22, 2008
posted by Abiezer at 4:22 PM on August 22, 2008
Hamlet ended with practically no survivors, if that's the kind of thing that you are looking for.
posted by amicamentis at 4:48 PM on August 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by amicamentis at 4:48 PM on August 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
I just about a batter between the Spartans and the Argives in which each side (prearranged) sent out 300 men, and it ended with two Argives and one Spartan. The Argives declared themselves the winner, but the Spartan disputed it.
posted by BobbyDigital at 6:33 PM on August 22, 2008
posted by BobbyDigital at 6:33 PM on August 22, 2008
There have been a few conflicts in history, although I can't recall a specific one where the two leaders fought in individual conflict or selected champions so that the outcome of a "battle" would be the winner of a fight.
This was particularily true of Germanic tribesman outside the Roman Empire, and I can recall Mark Antony challenging Augustus Caesar that way. (which Augustus declined).. There has to be instances of individual combat where both combatants died.
The battle for the Plains of Abraham is an example of a battle where both leaders died in combat, even though Wolfe is considered the "victor"... the history of battles is often told as a battle among the leaders (think Rommel vs Patton).
Both answers are a bit of a cop-out though, hope it helps,
posted by Deep Dish at 9:44 PM on August 22, 2008
This was particularily true of Germanic tribesman outside the Roman Empire, and I can recall Mark Antony challenging Augustus Caesar that way. (which Augustus declined).. There has to be instances of individual combat where both combatants died.
The battle for the Plains of Abraham is an example of a battle where both leaders died in combat, even though Wolfe is considered the "victor"... the history of battles is often told as a battle among the leaders (think Rommel vs Patton).
Both answers are a bit of a cop-out though, hope it helps,
posted by Deep Dish at 9:44 PM on August 22, 2008
King Arthur's final battle at Camlann pretty much ended with everyone on his opponent Mordred's side dead and Arthur fatally wounded. Although, the stories of Arthurian Legend all come from various disputed & conflicting sources and therefore there really is no definitive account of anything about the battle (some say Arthur was killed in the end and so on) or even if/how it happened, but it all makes for some interesting reading.
posted by shoebox at 12:05 AM on August 23, 2008
posted by shoebox at 12:05 AM on August 23, 2008
Adding to what shoebox just said, I'm pretty sure John Boorman's film "Excalibur" ends with Arthur and Mordred duking it out as the last two guys alive on top of a pile of dead knights, and I think they both buy it.
posted by Doctor Suarez at 12:21 PM on August 23, 2008
posted by Doctor Suarez at 12:21 PM on August 23, 2008
The final poem by Mahmoud Darwish, called the Voice of Palestine, describes Palestinians and Israelis as two men in a shared grave:
He said: Will you bargain with me now?
I said: For what would you bargain
In this grave?
He said: Over my share and your share of this common grave
I said: Of what use is that?
Time has passed us by,
Our fate is an exception to the rule
Here I lie a killer and the killed, asleep in one hole
And it remains for another poet to write the end of the script
(via the poet's obituary in this week's Economist magazine)
posted by CruiseSavvy at 2:23 PM on August 25, 2008
He said: Will you bargain with me now?
I said: For what would you bargain
In this grave?
He said: Over my share and your share of this common grave
I said: Of what use is that?
Time has passed us by,
Our fate is an exception to the rule
Here I lie a killer and the killed, asleep in one hole
And it remains for another poet to write the end of the script
(via the poet's obituary in this week's Economist magazine)
posted by CruiseSavvy at 2:23 PM on August 25, 2008
Response by poster: I can recall Mark Antony challenging Augustus Caesar that way. (which Augustus declined)..
Charles V challenged Francis I in the same manner. Didn't come off that time, either.
posted by IndigoJones at 9:05 AM on September 5, 2008
Charles V challenged Francis I in the same manner. Didn't come off that time, either.
posted by IndigoJones at 9:05 AM on September 5, 2008
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posted by arcanecrowbar at 1:16 PM on August 22, 2008