Unobtanium-coated wrenches?
September 6, 2007 7:28 AM Subscribe
Automotivetoolfilter...So, my son is about to graduate auto tech school and enter the working world. Now comes the question about getting him properly equipped...
Generally, anyone entering the auto-repair industry is expected to have his/her own set of tools. Snap-On has a deal with schools where students can buy their tools at half-price (insert rolling eyes about "half-off" inflated retail prices). We've looked through the catalog and are amazed at just how expensive their stuff is. Even simple things like socket sets and the like are jaw-droppingly expensive with the student discount.
So, my question goes out to the professional automotive MeFites out there...Are tools from the likes of Snap-On, Matco, etc. really worth the premium price? Or will a good set of (affordable!) Craftsman tools do just as well?
Obviously, setting him up with a serviceable starting-set of tools will cost a few bucks no matter where we buy them, but I don't see any reason to let our wallets get gang-raped if I can avoid it (financing tech school did that thoroughly enough already)
For background, my son focused on auto body/collision and interior trim. No engine mechanics. He hopes to work primarily in the interior/trim side of things, but will also probably do a lot of body work.
Generally, anyone entering the auto-repair industry is expected to have his/her own set of tools. Snap-On has a deal with schools where students can buy their tools at half-price (insert rolling eyes about "half-off" inflated retail prices). We've looked through the catalog and are amazed at just how expensive their stuff is. Even simple things like socket sets and the like are jaw-droppingly expensive with the student discount.
So, my question goes out to the professional automotive MeFites out there...Are tools from the likes of Snap-On, Matco, etc. really worth the premium price? Or will a good set of (affordable!) Craftsman tools do just as well?
Obviously, setting him up with a serviceable starting-set of tools will cost a few bucks no matter where we buy them, but I don't see any reason to let our wallets get gang-raped if I can avoid it (financing tech school did that thoroughly enough already)
For background, my son focused on auto body/collision and interior trim. No engine mechanics. He hopes to work primarily in the interior/trim side of things, but will also probably do a lot of body work.
Response by poster: Thanks, dd! That pretty much confirms what I thought.
I'm assuming sockets from the premium vendors will work on Craftsman wrenches, yes? The drive sizes are, of course, standard, but I'm wondering if the vendors use some different locking mechanism that isn't compatible with the typical ball-lock found on consumer-grade tools like Craftman.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:17 AM on September 6, 2007
I'm assuming sockets from the premium vendors will work on Craftsman wrenches, yes? The drive sizes are, of course, standard, but I'm wondering if the vendors use some different locking mechanism that isn't compatible with the typical ball-lock found on consumer-grade tools like Craftman.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:17 AM on September 6, 2007
Best answer: I used to work for a Porsche dealership, and half the guys there would use cheap tools for the basic stuff, but obviously had more high-end tools for specialty jobs. The guys who had nothing but Snap-On only had it after years and years of upgrading their original tools.
Like said above, when it comes to tools where you can choose between one that costs $100 and one that costs $10, get the cheap one and upgrade later if you deem necessary.
posted by smitt at 8:29 AM on September 6, 2007
Like said above, when it comes to tools where you can choose between one that costs $100 and one that costs $10, get the cheap one and upgrade later if you deem necessary.
posted by smitt at 8:29 AM on September 6, 2007
Best answer: My brother is a mechanic turned Snap On salesman. There's a few advantages to buying Snapon/Matco etc.
1. They come to your workplace, so you don't have to spend your free time buying tools for work.
2. Most tools have lifetime guarantees and the ones that don't can be rebuilt.
3. Quality tools make your job easier. Cheap tools that give you trouble slow down your production rate and since mechanics generally work on a per job basis, you make less money.
4. You can sell back/trade in tools you no longer want or need for credit or on consignment.
In your specific case, I'd go with a moderately priced set of Craftsman or something similar, because your son may hate being a mechanic and quit. He can build up a quality tool collection later on. They're tax deductible, if you itemize.
posted by electroboy at 8:34 AM on September 6, 2007
1. They come to your workplace, so you don't have to spend your free time buying tools for work.
2. Most tools have lifetime guarantees and the ones that don't can be rebuilt.
3. Quality tools make your job easier. Cheap tools that give you trouble slow down your production rate and since mechanics generally work on a per job basis, you make less money.
4. You can sell back/trade in tools you no longer want or need for credit or on consignment.
In your specific case, I'd go with a moderately priced set of Craftsman or something similar, because your son may hate being a mechanic and quit. He can build up a quality tool collection later on. They're tax deductible, if you itemize.
posted by electroboy at 8:34 AM on September 6, 2007
Response by poster: Thanks, guys. Again, it looks like my first impression was correct.
And thanks for reminding me about the deductibility, electroboy.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:55 AM on September 6, 2007
And thanks for reminding me about the deductibility, electroboy.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:55 AM on September 6, 2007
Best answer: If you go the Craftsman route buy the biggest set you can afford, even if you have to order it in. The price per piece drops with every step up in piece count.
He'll also need a toolbox. Costco has a large, awesome stainless steel unit for a ridiculously cheap price (~$1K) that I lust over every time I'm there. Made by CPS and similar to this unit. An equivalent snap-on/mac/proto unit would be easily double that price.
posted by Mitheral at 9:27 AM on September 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
He'll also need a toolbox. Costco has a large, awesome stainless steel unit for a ridiculously cheap price (~$1K) that I lust over every time I'm there. Made by CPS and similar to this unit. An equivalent snap-on/mac/proto unit would be easily double that price.
posted by Mitheral at 9:27 AM on September 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I agree with pretty much everyone, but I'll add one thing:
I worked for an aerospace company and our shop techs were literally giddy when the snap on guy came around. There is a seriously dedicated fanbase for those tools.
It's worth noting that their tools are mostly garunteed for life - so he'll get a higher quality tool once instead of a series of crappy ones.
posted by phrontist at 9:27 AM on September 6, 2007
I worked for an aerospace company and our shop techs were literally giddy when the snap on guy came around. There is a seriously dedicated fanbase for those tools.
It's worth noting that their tools are mostly garunteed for life - so he'll get a higher quality tool once instead of a series of crappy ones.
posted by phrontist at 9:27 AM on September 6, 2007
Response by poster: Thanks, again!
Re: lifetime guarantees...Craftsman hand tools carry a lifetime guarantee, as well. I don't think the power tools do, though.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:43 AM on September 6, 2007
Re: lifetime guarantees...Craftsman hand tools carry a lifetime guarantee, as well. I don't think the power tools do, though.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:43 AM on September 6, 2007
Toolboxes might be one area where it's initially worth it to buy a Snapon box. They're built to withstand heavy daily use and last practically forever. A consumer model may not. Keep in mind you'll be opening and closing a drawer with up to a hundred pounds of tools in it over and over again. Talk to the local Snapon rep and see if he can get you a used one. A lot of people trade up, sell off, or have their old box repo'd and you can probably get a decent price.
posted by electroboy at 10:47 AM on September 6, 2007
posted by electroboy at 10:47 AM on September 6, 2007
I agree with the general sentiment that that you don't need all Snap-On tools - HOWEVER - it seems like many people view it differently than I do.
Having been through an auto-tech program, I bought the Snap-On tools (Crafstman offered a similar deal to students as well). Snap-On tools *are* better. Usually.
Recently, my garage was broken into, and most of my tools were stolen. Here's how I'm going to replace them:
Also, if you've got a Harbor Freight (http://www.harborfreightusa.com) store nearby, a lot of generic tools can be bought there that are nearly as good as the Craftsman stuff. Good place to find things like punches, torx drivers, dashboard wedges, etc. The stuff is generic and cheap as hell, but if you've got a thing for tools, it's pretty fun.
posted by terpia at 4:03 PM on September 6, 2007
Having been through an auto-tech program, I bought the Snap-On tools (Crafstman offered a similar deal to students as well). Snap-On tools *are* better. Usually.
Recently, my garage was broken into, and most of my tools were stolen. Here's how I'm going to replace them:
- Common, but hard-use tools will be Snap-On. This includes sockets, combo wrenches, and most-freaking-definitely, RATCHETS. You just can't beat Snap-On ratchets.
- Common, low/easy-use tools will be Craftsman. this includes screwdrivers, hammers, pry bars, drill bits, electric power tools, pliers.
- Specialty tools will be a mix. Cheap and generic air tools and accessories are fine and have lasted me a long time with reliable service (but get impact sockets!). A costco toolbox or high-end Craftsman is a better buy than a Snap-On until you get a serious collection of tools. His need and use of specialty tools will depend entirely on his (or his shop's) field of specialty - and purchase of those items should be delayed as long as possible, until he's seen what his peers are using and have found to be good.
Also, if you've got a Harbor Freight (http://www.harborfreightusa.com) store nearby, a lot of generic tools can be bought there that are nearly as good as the Craftsman stuff. Good place to find things like punches, torx drivers, dashboard wedges, etc. The stuff is generic and cheap as hell, but if you've got a thing for tools, it's pretty fun.
posted by terpia at 4:03 PM on September 6, 2007
I disagree about Harbor Freight being almost as good as Craftsman. While Craftsman's quality has been on the decline, I don't think they've sunk nearly that far.
I would add this: If you're buying anything from Harbor Freight, start a dedicated folder for receipts and nothing but receipts. They don't honor the warranty otherwise! It's easy to look at the package and tell yourself "well it's obviously crap, but it's got a warranty", when really it's a warranty you'll probably never be able to lose because you'll lose the receipt. Two weeks down the road when the tool shatters in your hand, this is important!
Also related, Toolmonger can be a fun read. I need to post more...
posted by Myself at 4:17 PM on September 6, 2007
I would add this: If you're buying anything from Harbor Freight, start a dedicated folder for receipts and nothing but receipts. They don't honor the warranty otherwise! It's easy to look at the package and tell yourself "well it's obviously crap, but it's got a warranty", when really it's a warranty you'll probably never be able to lose because you'll lose the receipt. Two weeks down the road when the tool shatters in your hand, this is important!
Also related, Toolmonger can be a fun read. I need to post more...
posted by Myself at 4:17 PM on September 6, 2007
One more thing: Beware the "Companion" brand tools at Sears. They're crap, and carry no warranty. Many are obviously from the same OEM as Harbor Freight's stuff, though the prices may be better or worse.
posted by Myself at 4:21 PM on September 6, 2007
posted by Myself at 4:21 PM on September 6, 2007
Harbor Freight tools are trash. I've actually had them catch fire in my hands.
terpia is right about the insurance thing, though: my brother had 80% of his net worth stolen from him in the form of his Snap On tool collection by a classmate at tech school. Apparently this is quite common, unfortunately.
posted by popechunk at 7:37 PM on September 6, 2007
terpia is right about the insurance thing, though: my brother had 80% of his net worth stolen from him in the form of his Snap On tool collection by a classmate at tech school. Apparently this is quite common, unfortunately.
posted by popechunk at 7:37 PM on September 6, 2007
Response by poster: Thanks for the follow-ups.
I've not seen the "Companion" brand at Sears. Thanks for the heads-up.
Re: Insurance...definitely a good idea. Not sure if a kid right out of school is going to be able to afford insurance considering the probable low-pay he's going to be getting, combined with the #%@$ student loan payments. Times will be a pretty tight for the boy for awhile.
Sadly, popechunk is right...theft among colleagues can be quite common.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:59 AM on September 7, 2007
I've not seen the "Companion" brand at Sears. Thanks for the heads-up.
Re: Insurance...definitely a good idea. Not sure if a kid right out of school is going to be able to afford insurance considering the probable low-pay he's going to be getting, combined with the #%@$ student loan payments. Times will be a pretty tight for the boy for awhile.
Sadly, popechunk is right...theft among colleagues can be quite common.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:59 AM on September 7, 2007
Sears is having a sale on Craftsman tools right now. Hurry, only lasts until tomorrow.
posted by electroboy at 11:49 AM on September 7, 2007
posted by electroboy at 11:49 AM on September 7, 2007
"Harbor Freight tools are trash. I've actually had them catch fire in my hands."
This is why you don't buy sockets or electrical products. You buy the cheap lightly/rarely used stuff like torx drivers, allen keys, steering wheel pullers, punches, dashboard wedges and lock-picking sets from them.
As for insurance, policies aren't that expensive. He's probably got (or should have) renter's insurance. You can often tack things like this onto existing policies for an extra $100 or so a year - sometimes less. There may also be policies available via group rate through the shop, depending on the owners and management of course. It's definitely worth a single month of eating on the cheap if you ask me.
Here's an off topic, but relevant tip. Your son has turned himself into a utility. Much like the the stereotypical "guy with a pickup", he will start being asked to "help out" often, and will be fixing more and more cars "on the side". You might suggest that he think of a strategy to deal with this, otherwise it's easy to find your free time soaked up by other people's problems. It can be very tempting to lowball yourself too much in order to help out friends and family. An easy way to address this is to bring up the subject of the student loans he has burdened himself with in order to be able to fix cars. People are very understanding about paying a modest fee towards student loans.
posted by terpia at 12:29 PM on September 7, 2007
This is why you don't buy sockets or electrical products. You buy the cheap lightly/rarely used stuff like torx drivers, allen keys, steering wheel pullers, punches, dashboard wedges and lock-picking sets from them.
As for insurance, policies aren't that expensive. He's probably got (or should have) renter's insurance. You can often tack things like this onto existing policies for an extra $100 or so a year - sometimes less. There may also be policies available via group rate through the shop, depending on the owners and management of course. It's definitely worth a single month of eating on the cheap if you ask me.
Here's an off topic, but relevant tip. Your son has turned himself into a utility. Much like the the stereotypical "guy with a pickup", he will start being asked to "help out" often, and will be fixing more and more cars "on the side". You might suggest that he think of a strategy to deal with this, otherwise it's easy to find your free time soaked up by other people's problems. It can be very tempting to lowball yourself too much in order to help out friends and family. An easy way to address this is to bring up the subject of the student loans he has burdened himself with in order to be able to fix cars. People are very understanding about paying a modest fee towards student loans.
posted by terpia at 12:29 PM on September 7, 2007
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As far as wrenches, screwdrivers, sockets, etc., he will be fine with craftsman/mastercraft/anything above the dollar store level.
Many mechanics start out with "consumer grade" stuff and slowly upgrade it over time.
Some mechanics obsess over tools, other use the cheapest crap they can find. The end result is generally the same.
posted by davey_darling at 7:48 AM on September 6, 2007