The End of Violence

September 4, 2007 11:32 PM

My sister called with disturbing news: tonight, gunfire broke out in the apartment building she just moved into. What advice should I give her?

The incident involved neighbors. No one was injured and she said police response was excellent, but she's still rattled. I'm tempted to tell her to cut her losses and find a new place. She lives in a nice area but I worry that it may be impossible for her to feel safe in that particular building again.

Am I overreacting? Have any of you had her experience? What did you do to ensure your safety (and peace of mind) afterwards?

And please, no "that's city life, deal with it" comments. This is my kid sister we're talking about.

posted by roger ackroyd to society & culture (19 comments total)

I once lived in an apartment in inner-city Milwaukee. On our way back to my place one night, just outside the building, we smelled gunpowder.

Shortly after, the police were around asking what people had seen.

We had weird neighbors there, but that was the only shooting that happened there while I was around, and life went on.

I think the key was that even when the neighbors were being strange, we were never involved because we pretty much kept to ourselves.

I don't know if any of this helps, but I lived there for six months or so, and never got bullet holes in me, or anything else adverse.
posted by SlyBevel at 11:44 PM on September 4, 2007

Could she get in touch with the police and ask if they have been to the building for similar problems in the past?
posted by LobsterMitten at 11:58 PM on September 4, 2007

What action are the landlords taking against the offending tenants?

If they are serving them with eviction notices first thing in the morning then I would possibly consider staying if I really liked the apartment.

If the landlords aren't taking action then that shows they don't care about having dangerous and violent tenants in the same building with your sister, so I'd cut and run.

Your sister should contact the landlords asap and be sure to follow up with them. She should make it clear that it's them or her and which renter would they rather keep?

Given the circumstances, unless the landlords are immediately evicting the offending tenants, she has every right to break her lease without notice and move. Its the landlord's responsibility to provide a safe environment and allowing violent offenders to live there is not safe...
posted by wfrgms at 12:09 AM on September 5, 2007

I think the important thing is, that if she is indeed in a nice area, to help her realize that this could happen anywhere, ie. she could move to another part of said nice neighborhood, and a tenant there might go ballistic as well. Its nerve-rattling, yes, but the police response was excellent - why would you want to move somewhere that the response might not be so excellent.

Perhaps the most reassuring thing for her to do would be to follow up with the police on the case. Given that she's a neighbor and concerned for her safety, I can't see why they wouldn't at least give her a synopsis of the situation and mitigation steps being taken.
posted by allkindsoftime at 12:32 AM on September 5, 2007

And please, no "that's city life, deal with it" comments.

We've had gunfire on our own "quiet" street, and we live in the middle of Podunk, Nowhere. Luckily my husband is a police officer and our town is very small, so there's very little "random" violence... I suspect, from what you've described, that your sister's experience was random too... The police response was "excellent" (your words), and it sounds like the situation wasn't random, so basically it's a matter of "a random dangerous situation broke out in my area, but I was never personally in danger"... Millions of people deal with that every day, and we all survive... It's sweet and wonderful that you care about her, but I don't think there's anything realistic you can do to mitigate her exposure to danger, given the current parameters.
posted by amyms at 2:04 AM on September 5, 2007

I had someone shoot up the car next to mine late late one night. That was the only incidence I had, and this wasn't the best of neighborhoods. If it's generally safe, then the likelihood of this happening again is probably slim. I would just make sure she's ok, put a few extra locks on the doors, get a baseball bat. If she's open and willing, take up shooting as a hobby--get her a shotgun she can handle, make sure she knows how to use it. Got mine in my bedroom and that's the best thing protecting me from the outside.
posted by uncballzer at 4:56 AM on September 5, 2007

When I lived on the west side of Chicago someone was murdered about 25 feet from my front door the first Saturday after I moved in. I heard the shots, but it was the middle of the night and without realizing what they were rolled over and went back to sleep.

The next morning I called my local police station and they said it had been a suspected gang murder and explained that they planned to increase patrols, implement a zero-tolerance plan towards gang activity, etc, etc...

I only lived in the area for a year but I did notice a lot more police cars after that, and I never heard of another murder in the immediate area. It was definitely scary and I was unsettled for a bit but the police response reassured me and after a few weeks I generally forgot about it. But definitely have her call the police to find out what's going on and if this is an endemic issue or more random as suggested.
posted by rsk at 5:34 AM on September 5, 2007

I don't think you are overreacting. I would also recommend finding a new place. Even if nothing ever happens again, it is a subtle strain on one's sense of well-being to feel that danger.
posted by letahl at 5:58 AM on September 5, 2007

Concerned relatives feel hamstrung and innefectual at times when they fear their loved ones are in danger, so I understand your response. That said, there seems to be no evidence that your sister was or is in any more danger than you or any of us are.

Isolated instances of violence occur everywhere. The problem with living in a city is that the sheer number of people and their proximity to each other practically ensures that we are exposed to more than our share.

She should get to know her neighbors a little, be proactive in reaching out to THEM and seeing how THEY feel about it. It's nice to set a tone that they are all looking out for each other, and doing that will probably make your sister feel better.
posted by hermitosis at 6:08 AM on September 5, 2007

And you said that the violence involved neighbors -- was it something like drug dealing or was it a domestic dispute? Meaning, is there ongoing danger, or was this a very specific situation? If the latter, I agree with allkindsofme and amyms. If there is actually a dangerous situation brewing in the building, that's obviously a different story.

She lives in a nice area but I worry that it may be impossible for her to feel safe in that particular building again.

You're worried. But how worried is she about ever feeling safe in the building again? I get that you're protective of your kid sister, but let her see how she feels in a few days or a week. If after she has time to assess, she is looking for someone to tell her that it's okay to get out of the building because she is creeped out, then, by all means, help her pack and move. If not, don't push her out of her place because you're freaking out, y'know?
posted by desuetude at 6:28 AM on September 5, 2007

A guy was shot in the lobby of my building last year. Turns out it was a road rage incident that got way out of hand. The guy pissed someone off on the West Side Hwy, they started shooting, he made a fast exit, and tried to find a safe place. He bailed and ran into my building, but got caught in the lobby entrance because our inner doors are locked. The shooters had him pinned down and just shot him through the glass doors. Luckily, he didn't die.

Also, a woman was attacked by mugger in our elevator. Needed twenty five stitches because he hit her in the head with a rock.

I live in a safe neighborhood, and I like my building. I know my neighbors and have a good relationship with super and the landlord. I suppose that if these things had happened right after I moved in, I would also be rattled, and wondering if I had made a bad choice. But as it is, I understood that these were anomalies in an otherwise pretty peaceful place. Maybe speaking with the neighbors in passing would help her ascertain whether this kind of thing is common or not. It also gives her a chance to get to know the neighbors, which may help her feel a little bit better.
posted by kimdog at 7:32 AM on September 5, 2007

I think the response depends on what actually happened. "Gunfire broke out" makes it sound like downtown Baghdad; roving gangs of bandits sniping at each other from the rooftops. I kinda doubt that's what happened.

Was it a domestic dispute? Drug or organized-crime related? Robbery-gone-bad? Home invasion / self-defense shooting? Somebody got drunk and decided to take "kill your television" too literally?

Each of those would seem to demand a different response. In some cases, immediately moving out would be warranted. In others, maybe it would depend on the landlord's response. And in some it might just have been bad luck that it happened right after she moved in, and there's no reason she'd be any safer anywhere else, and she might as well just stay put.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:45 AM on September 5, 2007 [1 favorite]

This bad? (See the next day's strip as well)

Or is it a freak thing for the area? There was an awful shooting near where I lived years ago, and it never occurred to me to move, it being such a...freak occurrence. It happened not very many blocks away from the main police station, too. If it's really a 'nice area' and there's nothing inherently unsafe about the building, I wouldn't fret. If she is a bit weirded out, keep in closer contact than usual for a bit, though.
posted by kmennie at 10:08 AM on September 5, 2007

The context of the shooting means everything.

Simply have her contact the police and ask about the crime stats of her new neighborhood. They'll tell her what she needs to know, and then she can decide accordingly.

Stuff can happen anywhere. You simply want to avoid the places where it happens regularly. No one can totally avoid the totally random stuff.
posted by konolia at 10:41 AM on September 5, 2007

konolia: "Simply have her contact the police and ask about the crime stats of her new neighborhood. (...) Stuff can happen anywhere."

For what it's worth: This past Monday, a man was shot in the head and back, and the shooter was in a 9-hour standoff with the SWAT team in Brick, NJ — the "safest city in America." So yes... stuff can happen anywhere.

At the same time, though, what good are statistics if your home doesn't feel safe? Whether or not she should move depends, in a large part, on whether she'll be able to feel safe in her own home. If not, then she should move, regardless of statistics.
posted by CrayDrygu at 12:04 PM on September 5, 2007

Thanks for the thoughtful advice, everyone. To clarify my tiny comment at the end, I do understand that random violence is an unfortunate fact of life. A few months ago, there was a murder/suicide on my own street, and since I don't have the luxury of being able to relocate, I filed it under "things not to obsess about" and moved on.

Also a valid point: I am overprotective. When I spoke to my sister today, she was back to business-as-usual. But as the older brother who values her safety, I want to do everything to ensure she's okay.
posted by roger ackroyd at 3:25 PM on September 5, 2007

Here is a link to a crime map for Milwaukee. The maps show different districts. If you have your specific address you can easily see how much crime typically happens near your building and what kind of crime it was.

milwaukee maplinky
posted by aetg at 5:08 PM on September 5, 2007

So roger ackroyd, do you know why there was shooting? I ask because, personally, I feel safe in a fairly dangerous neighborhood, because every dangerous thing that happened was clearly targeted at someone involved in the drug trade. If her building's event involved a random victim, that'd be different.
posted by salvia at 6:27 PM on September 5, 2007

The police couldn't answer "who" or "why." The gun hasn't been found yet, and a teenage witness claimed a stranger fired from outside the building, but that story was placed in doubt by physical evidence.
posted by roger ackroyd at 4:20 PM on September 6, 2007