Air Travel post 9-11
April 13, 2004 2:14 PM Subscribe
I haven't been on a plane since 2000 (before a certain terrorist attack) and I have a trip next week so is there anything i really need to know? Can I bring food, pencils, fingernail files, etc. onboard with me? Should i be careful what i say out loud? Are people gonna stop me wherever I go?
Check out TSA's A Must Read for Anyone Traveling by Air . It has helpful things like a list of permitted and prohibited items.
I'm hereby officially outing myself as the wife of a TSA employee. Yes, if you're a jackass to them, they'll make it harder on you. They don't really care about your politics, they're just trying to do their job. Just do what they ask you to do without the attitude and you won't have much of a problem.
posted by ferociouskitty at 2:27 PM on April 13, 2004
I'm hereby officially outing myself as the wife of a TSA employee. Yes, if you're a jackass to them, they'll make it harder on you. They don't really care about your politics, they're just trying to do their job. Just do what they ask you to do without the attitude and you won't have much of a problem.
posted by ferociouskitty at 2:27 PM on April 13, 2004
If you're carrying anything even the least bit questionable, print a copy of the list of Permitted and Prohibited Items ferociouskitty mentioned and pack it with the item. They may still take away your knitting needles, but at least you can feel self-righteous about it.
Seriously, though: don't bring anything you wouldn't mind losing if security personnel took it from you. Or, pack it in your checked luggage.
posted by hsoltz at 2:43 PM on April 13, 2004
Seriously, though: don't bring anything you wouldn't mind losing if security personnel took it from you. Or, pack it in your checked luggage.
posted by hsoltz at 2:43 PM on April 13, 2004
The experience of getting to the gate is quite different now. Be prepared to take off your shoes and remove your laptop from its case. They don't seem to notice telephones. They often want you to take your jacket off, even if it's just a nylon shell.
You always had to be careful what you said, but that's probably especially true now.
The security areas are accessible only to employees and passengers with tickets now. So expect to be stopped as you approach the gates, and know that they may also select passengers for an additional check at boarding.
The thing I miss most about the old days was being able to go all the way to the gate with, or to greet, a passenger. Oh well.
posted by caitlinb at 2:47 PM on April 13, 2004
You always had to be careful what you said, but that's probably especially true now.
The security areas are accessible only to employees and passengers with tickets now. So expect to be stopped as you approach the gates, and know that they may also select passengers for an additional check at boarding.
The thing I miss most about the old days was being able to go all the way to the gate with, or to greet, a passenger. Oh well.
posted by caitlinb at 2:47 PM on April 13, 2004
There is no right of free speech when it comes to airports. Just shut up and do as you're told, and be prepared to have ridiculously intrusive searches done on your person and to have any solid object longer than 2 inches confiscated from you, with no chance of having said object returned. You never know what someone might try to do with a pair of nail clippers after all.
posted by cbrody at 2:47 PM on April 13, 2004
posted by cbrody at 2:47 PM on April 13, 2004
Also, get there early enough so if you do have something they don't want on the plane, you have time to get it back into your checked baggage. They should give you that option.
posted by ferociouskitty at 2:49 PM on April 13, 2004
posted by ferociouskitty at 2:49 PM on April 13, 2004
Response by poster: Thanks for the suggestions so far (it feels like people are taking an attitude with me, but thats good, i think i need to hear this). What else?
posted by Slimemonster at 3:00 PM on April 13, 2004
posted by Slimemonster at 3:00 PM on April 13, 2004
Also, don't be surprised if a different person asks to see your boarding pass and ID every five feet as your work your way through the maze to get through security. Keep them both handy.
posted by ambrosia at 3:01 PM on April 13, 2004
posted by ambrosia at 3:01 PM on April 13, 2004
I have an entire 'flying outfit' and routine that makes the entire experience as painless as possible. This includes:
- Running shoes (they still make me take them off sometimes, but not always) instead of dress shoes (which often include metal reinforcements).
- A belt which doesn't beep and is easily removable if they do make me take it off (note: don't wear a belt that takes some fiddling with to get it through the loops)
- A politically-neutral outfit according to the screeners. IMO, you are less likely to be pulled aside if you are not wearing the studded leather jacket or even the NRA t-shirt.
- One real carry-on (not an overstuffed, falling-apart plastic bag) and one bag of food/water/pillow for long trips. The less you have to put onto the belt, collect afterwards, possibly have searched, then squeeze through the aisles and into the overhead container, the better.
- At the check-in counter, you'll be asked to show a piece of government photo ID (DL, passport, etc.) Keep this ID out until you get onto the plane; some airports require you to show it through security several times, and again when you get on the plane.
- Noise-cancelling headphones and lots of water: an absolute must on long flights; that post-flight headache and general grogginess that most of us suffer from is largely caused by excess noise and dehydration.
posted by fionab at 3:03 PM on April 13, 2004
- Running shoes (they still make me take them off sometimes, but not always) instead of dress shoes (which often include metal reinforcements).
- A belt which doesn't beep and is easily removable if they do make me take it off (note: don't wear a belt that takes some fiddling with to get it through the loops)
- A politically-neutral outfit according to the screeners. IMO, you are less likely to be pulled aside if you are not wearing the studded leather jacket or even the NRA t-shirt.
- One real carry-on (not an overstuffed, falling-apart plastic bag) and one bag of food/water/pillow for long trips. The less you have to put onto the belt, collect afterwards, possibly have searched, then squeeze through the aisles and into the overhead container, the better.
- At the check-in counter, you'll be asked to show a piece of government photo ID (DL, passport, etc.) Keep this ID out until you get onto the plane; some airports require you to show it through security several times, and again when you get on the plane.
- Noise-cancelling headphones and lots of water: an absolute must on long flights; that post-flight headache and general grogginess that most of us suffer from is largely caused by excess noise and dehydration.
posted by fionab at 3:03 PM on April 13, 2004
I don't know which airports you're flying in and out of, but O'Hare Airport and DFW are being very persnickety about the size and number of carryon baggage. At O'Hare they are not letting you pass through security if you have more than your carry-on and "one personal item" (not including coats), unless it's a stroller with the "gate checked baggage" sticker already attached. IAD doesn't seem to care. Although it varies, I've found I need at least 1.5 hours at IAD, but just about an hour at ORD to get from check-in to gate.
IAD was having everyone remove shoes last weekend, but DFW and ORD haven't been.
posted by crush-onastick at 3:10 PM on April 13, 2004
IAD was having everyone remove shoes last weekend, but DFW and ORD haven't been.
posted by crush-onastick at 3:10 PM on April 13, 2004
Since the other questions have been answered: Are people gonna stop me wherever I go?
Depends. I have a number of darker-skinned and ethnicly diverse friends who are constantly "randomly selected" for extra security checks.
posted by falconred at 3:12 PM on April 13, 2004
Depends. I have a number of darker-skinned and ethnicly diverse friends who are constantly "randomly selected" for extra security checks.
posted by falconred at 3:12 PM on April 13, 2004
Also, depending where you fly out of, you may check baggage only to watch people unpack it behind the counter, search it, and then and repack it. This is normal. You must leave your checked baggage unlocked. Gate procedures aren't much different except for the showing ID and removing shoes part. The wait is often less long nowadays because everyone "knows the drill" and can move through with reasonable ease. If they pull you aside for extra searching, they will hold the plane for you, at least in my experience, though it doesn't mean the other passengers have to like you for it. I find the new baggage checker people to be a bit easier to deal with than before [much more professional, much less arbitrary, it seems]. Plan to take off the majority of your external clothing [jackets, sometimes sweaters, hoodies, the like] and put it in a tray to be x-rayed. Take off all jewlery and metal stuff beforehand and you'll go through fairly quickly.
Once you're on the plane, the only real thing that has changed is that you can't wait in line for the bathroom at the front of the plane anymore. They'll usually mention this to you at some point in the "welcome to the plane" song and dance.
posted by jessamyn at 3:28 PM on April 13, 2004
Once you're on the plane, the only real thing that has changed is that you can't wait in line for the bathroom at the front of the plane anymore. They'll usually mention this to you at some point in the "welcome to the plane" song and dance.
posted by jessamyn at 3:28 PM on April 13, 2004
what everyone else said--wear sneakers, not shoes or boots; take your belt off and put it in your checked or carryon luggage; put your keys and keychain and loose change in your carryon bag; get there really early--i've waited over 45 minutes at JFK and Newark to get thru security...and bring snacks or something for the flight--foodservice has disappeared or been reduced to pretzels and soda on many flights.
posted by amberglow at 3:35 PM on April 13, 2004
posted by amberglow at 3:35 PM on April 13, 2004
Yes, for god's sake don't wear steel-toed boots, I don't care if you have to go to a construction site immediately after touching down. I swear mine went through every X-ray machine and I was more than half-expecting the bomb squad to arrive to detonate them.
posted by Sangre Azul at 4:34 PM on April 13, 2004
posted by Sangre Azul at 4:34 PM on April 13, 2004
I hate that it’s come to this but also pay attention to what books you may be carrying and how they might be perceived by the security staff. Every time I’ve run my backpack through an X-Ray machine since 9/11 I’ve had it pulled aside and opened and the only thing they check are my books.
posted by Tenuki at 4:57 PM on April 13, 2004
posted by Tenuki at 4:57 PM on April 13, 2004
Adding to what other people have said, try to wear sandals, sneakers or shoes that you know don't have metal shanks (Johnston & Murphy and Kenneth Cole now offer dress shoes that are specifically designed to be airport friendly). To avoid getting stopped/searched as much as possible, your best bet is to try not to stand out in any way. For me as a college student, that usually means clean, not-too-ragged cargo pants or jeans and a polo shirt or casual sweater. Anything dressier or grungier than that and I inevitably get searched. If you're a little older I'd go for a business casual look, like khakis and a button down shirt.
As far as getting stopped "everywhere," in my experience there are only a few places you might get stopped. When you check in at the ticket counter (you now must do this before passing through security, unlike before when you could get your boarding pass at the gate) they may search your checked bag, or put it through a bomb screener type thing. I've never seen them search your carry-on or your person at this point. Going through security is the roughest part. Be prepared to show your boarding pass and ID several times between the beginning of the line and the actual x-ray machine. You'll have to put your jacket and laptop (and possibly shoes) through separately from your carry-on. Then you go through the metal detector, and if it beeps you will be taken aside to be waved down with the metal detecting wand. Anywhere it beeps you will have to prove there is no weapon there; so far the only semi-invasive thing I've had to do was unbutton my pants and roll the waistband down slightly (wear clean underwear!). They may also pat you down, but I've never felt violated in any way, they are usually quick and avoid "sensitive" areas. At this point they may ask to look through your carry-on if they saw something suspicious in the x-ray machine. Now you are almost home free, and you can walk around the terminal without any fear of harrassment, provided you don't start talking about bombs or box-cutters. The only (minor) hurdle left is boarding the plane. Occasionally they will pick out people at random and look through their bag and wave them with the wand again. I haven't seen them doing this as much lately, and if they do they will definitely hold the plane for you.
Most importantly, just do whatever you are told at every stop. Accept the fact that you have no rights, particularly with regards to things like free speech and personal privacy. Don't pack anything you wouldn't want displayed for a hundred strangers, and don't get pissed off when said items are pulled out of your bag. If you are friendly and cooperative, the security guards will (generally) treat you the same way. If you are an asshat and cause a scene, get ready for the rubber gloves.
posted by rorycberger at 5:05 PM on April 13, 2004
As far as getting stopped "everywhere," in my experience there are only a few places you might get stopped. When you check in at the ticket counter (you now must do this before passing through security, unlike before when you could get your boarding pass at the gate) they may search your checked bag, or put it through a bomb screener type thing. I've never seen them search your carry-on or your person at this point. Going through security is the roughest part. Be prepared to show your boarding pass and ID several times between the beginning of the line and the actual x-ray machine. You'll have to put your jacket and laptop (and possibly shoes) through separately from your carry-on. Then you go through the metal detector, and if it beeps you will be taken aside to be waved down with the metal detecting wand. Anywhere it beeps you will have to prove there is no weapon there; so far the only semi-invasive thing I've had to do was unbutton my pants and roll the waistband down slightly (wear clean underwear!). They may also pat you down, but I've never felt violated in any way, they are usually quick and avoid "sensitive" areas. At this point they may ask to look through your carry-on if they saw something suspicious in the x-ray machine. Now you are almost home free, and you can walk around the terminal without any fear of harrassment, provided you don't start talking about bombs or box-cutters. The only (minor) hurdle left is boarding the plane. Occasionally they will pick out people at random and look through their bag and wave them with the wand again. I haven't seen them doing this as much lately, and if they do they will definitely hold the plane for you.
Most importantly, just do whatever you are told at every stop. Accept the fact that you have no rights, particularly with regards to things like free speech and personal privacy. Don't pack anything you wouldn't want displayed for a hundred strangers, and don't get pissed off when said items are pulled out of your bag. If you are friendly and cooperative, the security guards will (generally) treat you the same way. If you are an asshat and cause a scene, get ready for the rubber gloves.
posted by rorycberger at 5:05 PM on April 13, 2004
One thing nobody mentioned--if you're not checking bags and are proceeding directly to the gate without a ticket (ticketless travel, e-ticket, whatever), make sure you have a printout of your itinerary that your airline or travel service emailed you. Check your airline policy on this...I think last time I flew Southwest, I had to print out a special security document the day before I flew.
posted by gokart4xmas at 5:47 PM on April 13, 2004
posted by gokart4xmas at 5:47 PM on April 13, 2004
If you are travelling one way or returning to the same airport, paid for a ticket within the last week, or are travelling alone, EXPECT to be pulled aside for additional screening. Plan on an extra 30 minutes for this.
You may get picked anyway, but these are automatic red flags of the system.
Also, if you have a personal medical device (C-PAP, oxygen tank, etc.) you CAN carry it with you in addition to your carry on. Be prepared for hassles and bring the TSA bulletin and a prescription/doctor note.
posted by karmaville at 6:07 PM on April 13, 2004
You may get picked anyway, but these are automatic red flags of the system.
Also, if you have a personal medical device (C-PAP, oxygen tank, etc.) you CAN carry it with you in addition to your carry on. Be prepared for hassles and bring the TSA bulletin and a prescription/doctor note.
posted by karmaville at 6:07 PM on April 13, 2004
That should be NOT returning to the same airport.
posted by karmaville at 6:07 PM on April 13, 2004
posted by karmaville at 6:07 PM on April 13, 2004
My god.
You all should read this thread again.
It's insane. This shit is going down in America. Remember America, free-est nation on earth? America, not a police state? America, the place everyone wanted to be?
Well it's going, going, gone. This is New America. An America where you're subjected to identification checks and security workovers that could put the North Koreans to shame. You are not free.
My advice, Slimemonster, is to drive to your destination. At least that way you can be reasonably sure you won't be given a full body cavity search.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:58 PM on April 13, 2004
You all should read this thread again.
It's insane. This shit is going down in America. Remember America, free-est nation on earth? America, not a police state? America, the place everyone wanted to be?
Well it's going, going, gone. This is New America. An America where you're subjected to identification checks and security workovers that could put the North Koreans to shame. You are not free.
My advice, Slimemonster, is to drive to your destination. At least that way you can be reasonably sure you won't be given a full body cavity search.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:58 PM on April 13, 2004
Response by poster: well, I'm going from Seattle to Dallas to Alabama so the driving thing isnt really an option as I enjoy my sanity. Also, I am a little concerned about what i hear about darker-skinned people. Do i need to pull some minstrel show routine out of my ass to get by profiling security guards?
posted by Slimemonster at 8:59 PM on April 13, 2004
posted by Slimemonster at 8:59 PM on April 13, 2004
jessamyn is right -- the TSA personnel are generally better-trained and more courteous than the old private security staff.
gokart4xmas is wrong -- don't expect to get through security without a ticket. I travel pretty regularly, and no airport I've been in over the last 6 months does gate check-in anymore. You have to check in at the ticketing desks. Use the self-serve kiosks if they have them -- it'll go a lot faster.
posted by jjg at 9:03 PM on April 13, 2004
gokart4xmas is wrong -- don't expect to get through security without a ticket. I travel pretty regularly, and no airport I've been in over the last 6 months does gate check-in anymore. You have to check in at the ticketing desks. Use the self-serve kiosks if they have them -- it'll go a lot faster.
posted by jjg at 9:03 PM on April 13, 2004
Well, my girlfriend and I often end up flying for business. She's half-fillipino. I'm 100% white-boy. Percent of the time I'm pulled aside for additional screening since 9/11? 0%. Percent of the time she gets pulled aside? 50%.
And don't get me started on my friend from Kuwait... he got to spend several hours talking to the nice people from the gov't.
posted by falconred at 9:13 PM on April 13, 2004
And don't get me started on my friend from Kuwait... he got to spend several hours talking to the nice people from the gov't.
posted by falconred at 9:13 PM on April 13, 2004
five fresh fish - you've just been flagged by the FAA.
In all seriousness, collectively we are painting a pretty grim picture, but we are just outlining all of the possibilities one may encounter. I have been flying cross country several times a year pretty consistently since 9/11 and it gets better every time. I think most of the comments in this thread (including some of my own) are based on the worst security experiences each person has had. Knowing which shoes to wear, having my laptop ready, and putting cell phone/keys in my carry-on have led me through security hassle free on all of my recent trips. trharlan is right, just get there early, relax, and you'll be fine.
As a white dude, I can't really comment on the skincolor thing, but I'm pretty sure they used to profile me because of my age (now 22), as right after 9/11 I used to get stopped at every checkpoint and "randomly" selected for searches. That hasn't happened in about 6 months now, and I've noticed them stopping less and less people in general (although I think they might have cranked up the metal detectors a bit...there are always people getting waved down with the wand).
posted by rorycberger at 10:37 PM on April 13, 2004
In all seriousness, collectively we are painting a pretty grim picture, but we are just outlining all of the possibilities one may encounter. I have been flying cross country several times a year pretty consistently since 9/11 and it gets better every time. I think most of the comments in this thread (including some of my own) are based on the worst security experiences each person has had. Knowing which shoes to wear, having my laptop ready, and putting cell phone/keys in my carry-on have led me through security hassle free on all of my recent trips. trharlan is right, just get there early, relax, and you'll be fine.
As a white dude, I can't really comment on the skincolor thing, but I'm pretty sure they used to profile me because of my age (now 22), as right after 9/11 I used to get stopped at every checkpoint and "randomly" selected for searches. That hasn't happened in about 6 months now, and I've noticed them stopping less and less people in general (although I think they might have cranked up the metal detectors a bit...there are always people getting waved down with the wand).
posted by rorycberger at 10:37 PM on April 13, 2004
I accidentally made the mistake of travelling on an airplane wearing both steel-toed boots and an underwire bra. The security personnel got WAY further than any first date would get, and in front of a large crowd of people. And she didn't even buy me dinner first!
posted by kamikazegopher at 11:11 PM on April 13, 2004
posted by kamikazegopher at 11:11 PM on April 13, 2004
Metal detectors and ID checks != North Korea
posted by PrinceValium at 11:26 PM on April 13, 2004
posted by PrinceValium at 11:26 PM on April 13, 2004
FFF pretty much summed it up. Flying just plain sucks these days. Expect to be violated, expect to have anything you carry with you confiscated. My 19 year old cousin had her currency calculator permanently taken away because "it could be used to detonate something". In the past six months, my lady friend has had a flask of whiskey emptied because it "contained a dangerous flammable liquid" - that is readily available not only at the bar 25 feet inside the gate, but on the plane itself. Expect to be harassed because you're reading the wrong book, wearing the wrong clothes, or just because the TSA thug doesn't like the way you look that day.
Drive if you can, fly if you must, and make sure to wear your dirtiest, smelliest socks.
posted by majcher at 12:45 AM on April 14, 2004
Drive if you can, fly if you must, and make sure to wear your dirtiest, smelliest socks.
posted by majcher at 12:45 AM on April 14, 2004
Also, be aware that, if you are carrying any largish amount of travellers cheques, they apparently have the same profile on the x-ray screen as plastic explosive, as I found out by having several large guns pointed at me by several extremely unfriendly South Korean military types. If you have lots of these, split them into a few piles instead of stacking them in your carry-on bag in one place.
Most importantly, be friendly to the security staff, they are doing a crappy job and (mostly) don't enjoy it any more than you do. Bitching to them about the process just makes them more inclined to give you a hard time.
posted by dg at 1:49 AM on April 14, 2004
Most importantly, be friendly to the security staff, they are doing a crappy job and (mostly) don't enjoy it any more than you do. Bitching to them about the process just makes them more inclined to give you a hard time.
posted by dg at 1:49 AM on April 14, 2004
I almost always wear a big old pair of black boots when I fly because they are my favorite shoes and take up too much room if I pack them. As long as I take them off and put them in the little basin to run through the x-ray machine, no problemo.
I pack my tweezers in checked luggage, and make sure all my change and electonrics are in the carry-on so I don't buzz the metal detector with my person. I've never had an underwire bra set off the metal detector, not even at the local federal courthouse (I'm a legal assistant and go in and out of metal detectors all the time), which has more sensitive equipment than any airport I've been through.
Get there early, put sharp things in your checked baggage, put metal things in your carry-on, and cooperate and you'll be fine. I probably wouldn't flaunt your copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook, but I don't think you'll need to pack a Tom Clancy novel for in-flight reading, either.
I'm generally very friendly to the security staff, but the last time I flew (a last-minute, high-stress, complicated, death in the family diversion from a vacation destination to the family location to my home that red flagged me from here to Tuesday) I decided that my days of being obsequious to airline personnel were over. Of course I'm nice, but if some idiot tells me to stand over here and wait for my bag and some other idiot then wants to search me again because I've been put in a security-only area (which happened at two different airports), I'm making some damn noise about it.
posted by jennyb at 6:48 AM on April 14, 2004
I pack my tweezers in checked luggage, and make sure all my change and electonrics are in the carry-on so I don't buzz the metal detector with my person. I've never had an underwire bra set off the metal detector, not even at the local federal courthouse (I'm a legal assistant and go in and out of metal detectors all the time), which has more sensitive equipment than any airport I've been through.
Get there early, put sharp things in your checked baggage, put metal things in your carry-on, and cooperate and you'll be fine. I probably wouldn't flaunt your copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook, but I don't think you'll need to pack a Tom Clancy novel for in-flight reading, either.
I'm generally very friendly to the security staff, but the last time I flew (a last-minute, high-stress, complicated, death in the family diversion from a vacation destination to the family location to my home that red flagged me from here to Tuesday) I decided that my days of being obsequious to airline personnel were over. Of course I'm nice, but if some idiot tells me to stand over here and wait for my bag and some other idiot then wants to search me again because I've been put in a security-only area (which happened at two different airports), I'm making some damn noise about it.
posted by jennyb at 6:48 AM on April 14, 2004
If you haven't traveled for 4 years you may not know that there are computerized checkin stations at most major airlines. A lot of travelers still seem to be intimidated by them and often they sit there unused- but they can save you a lot of time. If at all possible try to pack everything in a carryon and you can use the super quick checkin. The maximum size for carryon I think is 21" long. These computer checkins may have a downside though, see below.
One other thing to throw into the mix (this is probably more for people who are beginning to do frequent travel): certain factors may put you on a list for being screened and this list may be airline specific. For example: If you are traveling alone AND you are not checking baggage AND you check in on one of those new computerized check-in stations, then your boarding pass may print out with a small 'SSSS' stamped on the bottom right corner. ( I know: SS: the brutal irony- sorry five fresh fish) These means you've been selected for special screening. Do not dawdle- go straight to the security checkin and prepare for screening. Follow most of the previous bits of advice.
Just as a side note- once you get on a Special Screening list as noted above- it's pretty hard to get off. For example whenever I fly Continental I always get pulled aside. Why? Who the hell knows, but I surely avoid Continental whenever possible now.
posted by jeremias at 8:03 AM on April 14, 2004
One other thing to throw into the mix (this is probably more for people who are beginning to do frequent travel): certain factors may put you on a list for being screened and this list may be airline specific. For example: If you are traveling alone AND you are not checking baggage AND you check in on one of those new computerized check-in stations, then your boarding pass may print out with a small 'SSSS' stamped on the bottom right corner. ( I know: SS: the brutal irony- sorry five fresh fish) These means you've been selected for special screening. Do not dawdle- go straight to the security checkin and prepare for screening. Follow most of the previous bits of advice.
Just as a side note- once you get on a Special Screening list as noted above- it's pretty hard to get off. For example whenever I fly Continental I always get pulled aside. Why? Who the hell knows, but I surely avoid Continental whenever possible now.
posted by jeremias at 8:03 AM on April 14, 2004
Metal detectors and ID checks != North Korea
No? Do you think it is possible to walk around North Korea without ID? Do you think in North Korea, the security forces can demand you prove your identity at any moment?
What's the difference between North Korea and the USA in that regard, then? There are court cases going forward right now that are attempting to make it necessary to provide proof identity at the drop of a hat to any street cop.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:55 AM on April 14, 2004
No? Do you think it is possible to walk around North Korea without ID? Do you think in North Korea, the security forces can demand you prove your identity at any moment?
What's the difference between North Korea and the USA in that regard, then? There are court cases going forward right now that are attempting to make it necessary to provide proof identity at the drop of a hat to any street cop.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:55 AM on April 14, 2004
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posted by andrew cooke at 2:21 PM on April 13, 2004