scooter for an autistic adult?

May 30, 2007 8:22 AM

Should I encourage my mildly autistic younger brother to buy a scooter?

A couple of quick background notes:
He's very high functioning, i.e. you wouldn't likely know he has autism at first glance.
He's 22 and he just moved out of our parent's house.
He has a full-time job and has been gainfully employed for about 6 years.
He's not particularly coordinated. In fact, he occasionally walks into walls.
He has NO sense of direction

He lives in a walkable town but, against the advice of his family, he chose to lease an apartment on the other side of the town from his parents and his job. Although the town has excellent (and free) public transportation which he has used since he was a teenager.

He wanted a car when he was 18. I immediately nixed that idea. He would be a threat to himself and those around him in a full-sized vehicle. That much I was and am sure of.

But would he be ok on a scooter? For those that don't know, overly-protective mindsets plague those who care for people with disabilities. I have consistently underestimed his abilities his whole life and I feel like I'm holding him back if I don't let him go along with this.

But I can't get over the fact that if he buys a scooter he runs a good chance of veering off into traffic and killing himself. Are scooters as dangerous as motorcycles? Do you need to pass a driving test to get one?

Anyway, I'd like to hear your thoughts. Is this a case of overly-protective nature kicking in or should I be really worried about his safety?

Truth be told, I have terrible direction and walk into walls as well and I'm getting ready to buy a motorcycle... but that's another question.

posted by willie11 to travel & transportation (27 comments total)

Although the town has excellent (and free) public transportation which he has used since he was a teenager.

So your brother's autistic and you're ADD. Where were you going with this sentence? Is there some reason that public transport won't work out?

I understand the urge to protect someone whose safety you see as your responsibility, but please keep in mind that, as with most mental illnesses with socialization manifestations, constant negativity is only going to harm your brother.

In other words, don't hold him back due to your own ignorance. Do some research, call his doctor, get a professional opinion on this. Certainly you are not the first person to have this problem.
posted by feloniousmonk at 8:45 AM on May 30, 2007

Get a professional opinion... but, if he's a threat to himself or others in a car, he's doubly more so on a scooter. Scooters are as dangerous as motorcycles: you're fully exposed to all traffic, can easily ride into the path of a car, be sideswiped, etc.

Scooters and motorcycles are dangerous for people with all their faculties. I can't imagine a responsible individual letting someone with any kind of cognitive disability drive one.
posted by jdfan at 8:49 AM on May 30, 2007

He would be a threat to himself and those around him in a full-sized vehicle.

He will have a lower chance of injuring others in a car in an accident on a scooter, but from this decription it sounds like he would still be endangering pedistrians, bicyclists, and himself.

Can he manage a bicycle safely in traffic, following all traffic laws and being aware of cars around him? If not, a scooter won't be any better.

Truth be told, I have terrible direction and walk into walls as well and I'm getting ready to buy a motorcycle... but that's another question.

Yeah, but you went and put it into this one, so fair game. You don't sound like someone who would do well on a motorcycle. At least take a motorcycle safety course.
posted by yohko at 8:52 AM on May 30, 2007

He wanted a car when he was 18. I immediately nixed that idea.

You did, did you? Well that may have been a good move, but he's an adult, you know. You can't just go around nixing things and expect people to be incredibly grateful for having their ideas neatly curtailed.

He's 22. If he wants to break his own neck on a scooter, it's not your problem. I can see your concern of course, but if it's a risk he's willing to take, and he functions well enough to get a license and doctor-approval, then your concern is just that: yours.
posted by hermitosis at 8:53 AM on May 30, 2007

Scooters and motorcycles are not inherently dangerous - in fact, they're less dangerous than riding a horse! Would you let your brother ride a horse every day? Hell, I walk into walls fairly regularly!

As a motorcyclist, I would encourage you to direct him toward all the responsible motorcycling paths - MSF, some good gear, and lots of practice. In fact, taking the MSF will be fun and probably be a good indicator of his potential.

A 50cc scooter should not exceed 30 mph on level ground, and so his road choices will be limited - make sure he knows to stay off major roads and he'll be a step ahead. While public transport is nice, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to experience the freedom the rest of his peers enjoy, provided he does it safely.
posted by TheNewWazoo at 8:57 AM on May 30, 2007

Certainly you are not the first person to have this problem.

That was kind of the point of this post and ask.metafilter in general.

Is there some reason that public transport won't work out?

Yes, I forgot to include that the buses shut down at 9:00pm and he works nights. He also wants a scooter/moped for the freedom it represents.
posted by willie11 at 9:00 AM on May 30, 2007

Do you need to pass a driving test to get one?
Laws vary from state to state. In many locales, a scooter with an engine size of less than 50cc does not require a license, registration, helmet, etc.

Get him into a motorcycle safety course (MSF's ScooterSchool is probably just right) and I bet you'll be able to quickly ascertain whether he has the skills needed to safely ride around town.

Traveling on two wheels is fun and liberating. It's probably just the thing to give your brother the sense of independence he desires. Good luck!
posted by maniactown at 9:11 AM on May 30, 2007

nthing the MSF. for my full-blown motorcycle course, it cost a little more than $100, which paid for the course, gas, and use of their motorcycle & helmet. the course was 2 1/2 days long (friday evening, saturday and sunday). not sure if they do the same thing with their scooterschool, but i'm betting they do. For the motorcycle course, I was able to sign up through the local community college, but I'm not sure if the scooter deal is popular enough for that.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 9:29 AM on May 30, 2007

Scooters and motorcycles are not inherently dangerous...

They sure as hell are if you're planning on riding them in traffic. Many motorists simply do not treat two-wheeled transportation devices the same way they treat other automobiles.
posted by solotoro at 9:39 AM on May 30, 2007

Get a professional opinion and a personal satnav thingy.
posted by infinitewindow at 9:39 AM on May 30, 2007

I'm assuming you love your brother, so it's obviously a mistake.

If he can't pay attention to stationary objects (like, say, walls), what happens when they all are moving? And so is he? If a car isn't safe, neither is a scooter/bike/moped/HumVee.

How can you guys (collectively) nix a car, but not nix living cross town? Instead, You ought to be helping him find an equivalent place nearby instead.

P.S. I'd avoid motorcycles if I were you as well.
posted by filmgeek at 9:59 AM on May 30, 2007

How can you guys (collectively) nix a car, but not nix living cross town? Instead, You ought to be helping him find an equivalent place nearby instead.

We collectively nixed the car when he under 18. He's 22 now, legally independent and can do whatever he wants.

He wanted an apartment on the other side of town and so he signed the papers and that was that. Now he regrets it and wants a scooter to remedy the distance issue. What I'm afraid of is him regretting the moped/scooter decision too late.

I appreciate the advice folks, keep it coming.
posted by willie11 at 10:06 AM on May 30, 2007

willie11, does he want your help? The best thing you can do for him might be to help him answer this question: What is the problem?

In this case it sounds like the problem is that it is difficult to get from his apartment to work and family. One solution would be to help him get out of his lease and move somewhere closer. Another solution would be to buy a scooter. Each of these will cost some money, and have non-monetary costs.
posted by yohko at 10:18 AM on May 30, 2007

He sounds to me like someone who observes rules well if he has kept a job for 6 years. Learning the rules of the road and applying them probably without deviation is something I could see a high-functioning Autist doing.
Mt Dyspraxic Aspie son, (who drops everything) is superb on a bike and very concientious about rules. He frequently upbraids me in the car when he notices I'm driving above the speed limit. I realise that doesn't compare to an adult with this issue but I would be more concernd to see how his spatial awareness is and how well he follows rules and be guided by that. If there OK I would encourage him and ensure he gets a good instructor.
posted by Wilder at 10:20 AM on May 30, 2007

If he walks into walls, what is to stop him from scooting into them?

It doesn't sound like a safe idea to me.
posted by Caper's Ghost at 10:24 AM on May 30, 2007

First, don't worry about what a doctor says. You know him better than any doctor will. I'm frankly surprised that so many people suggested deference to a doctor on a clearly non-medical issue.

Second, if you worry about him running into someone in a car, I would not suggest a small vehicle like a scooter. They have low visibility, which makes the alertness and dexterity of the person driving the scooter more important. I can survive a 30mph crash in my car, but the odds are significantly lower if I'm flying through the air at some point.

Third, I have two autistic kids. One can ride a motorcycle like Evel Knievel and the other is doing well not to fall out of the car when he's trying to get in. If he's capable, help him out and get him some practice and a helmet. If not, send him to the car dealership.
posted by CRS at 10:33 AM on May 30, 2007

There are a lot of uncoordinated people out there driving cars, scooters, bicycles, motorcycles, and gigantic SUVs. If he can handle himself on a bicycle I don't think a scooter is a problem - cycling on city streets is arguably more dangerous since you're out of the flow of traffic and are harder to see.
posted by 0xFCAF at 10:34 AM on May 30, 2007

>Are scooters as dangerous as motorcycles? Do you need to pass a driving test to get one?

God yes. I rode one in HS. While I was an excellent driver, driving the scooter just scared the hell out of me. One random piece of road debris nearly did me in. I do not recommend a scooter to anyone who isnt 100% there, and even then they must do 100% defensive driving at low speeds.

Yes, he will need a motorcycle license to operate it most states.

You should really look into some kind of professional to assess his skills and reactions drivign a nice sized safe car. Perhaps even a run of the mill driving teacher will be able to assess how well he drives an automobile.
posted by damn dirty ape at 11:01 AM on May 30, 2007

Just because a person walks into walls doesn't mean they can't be a safe driver.

I walk into walls. I drop things. And I am also a safe driver. I have perceptual problems when things are very close to me; I don't have the same problems when driving because the distances are greater. (I don't trust myself parallel parking, but that's it).

Of course I can't comment on whether your brother can drive a car, or a scooter, but "walks into walls" is not in itself that much of a problem.
posted by Jeanne at 11:03 AM on May 30, 2007

Something to consider-- he may well obey rules like a champ, but will he have an issue when others on the road so blatantly disregard them? My husband worked with adult men with autism for years (although none of them were capable of driving) and he certainly had to deal with the aftermath of someone-- a cashier, a waiter, a co-worker-- not observing the rules which a resident had learned about a given social interaction. Will Jerko McIdiotpants driving on the shoulder make him upset?
posted by oflinkey at 11:13 AM on May 30, 2007

I think it really depends on how your brother's autism expresses itself. For example, my brother probably has a worse case of autism than yours, but he's still fairly high-functioning—you can tell he's autistic but it's not really a problem unless he gets frustrated or he doesn't understand what you're trying to tell him. The big reason why he doesn't drive is because we tried to get him driving lessons once, and no one wanted to teach him. My parents freak the hell out whenever either one of us is in a car with them (you should've seen my mother's reaction when I pressed the gas pedal for the first time ever in an empty parking lot and caused the car to lurch slightly) so that wasn't an option either.

If he were to drive, I think the major issue would be what happens if he gets frustrated in the car. He'd be very distracted and that's not a good recipe for driving. Otherwise, I don't think it'd be a problem once he learned how. And that's the problem—learning how to drive can be frustrating as well, and like I said, my brother has trouble with that.

Your brother, on the other hand, doesn't appear to have as much of an issue with falling apart when he gets angry or frustrated. No sense of direction is fine when driving—all that means is he'll never get where he's going, but it doesn't mean he'll suddenly swerve into oncoming traffic or anything. Walking into walls can be similar—if the weird motor function quirks don't occur behind the wheel, there's nothing to worry about. I know plenty of people that drive who are clutzes, or need careful direction while driving, or are relatively easily distracted. They all buckle down while driving and it's fine.

As for the car vs. scooter vs. public transit question: I'd go with transit first, car second, scooter third. It's true that in a scooter you're likely to cause slightly less damage than in a car. But scooters also place greater demands on a person's situational awareness, and though I hate to put it this way, a car vs. car accident is more survivable than a car vs. scooter accident. But like the first poster said, if transit gets your brother where he needs to go 90% of the time, does he really need a scooter or car?

The best reason for him to drive a car, it sounds like, isn't because it'll necessarily be better for him to get around town; it's because it'll be another step towards self-sufficiency and independence for your brother. In which case, see if there's a driving school that'll take him on and let them judge from there. Too bad you can't ask another AskMe until next week, because finding a driving school that has experience with autistic students would be a big asset.
posted by chrominance at 11:22 AM on May 30, 2007

(oh, and not to nix the scooter idea at all; same advice applies if your brother's keen on a scooter, find out if there's a driving school that'll instruct him in the safe operation of motorcycles/scooters and take it from there.)
posted by chrominance at 11:24 AM on May 30, 2007

From my response to this thread:

I ride a scooter, and it's obvious when you are on the road that the stakes are much, much higher on two wheels than on four. If you are a good rider, you will fear for your life, often with good reason. The important thing is to know the risks, and how to minimize them. Take the MSF Basic Rider Course. Read Proficient Motorcycling. Practice your riding skills regularly, even after you are an experienced rider. Wear full safety gear every time you ride.

If you and he are not sure, take the MSF course. He'll get hours of practice and instruction, and a better sense for how he feels in the saddle.
posted by mbrubeck at 11:41 AM on May 30, 2007

In my opinion, he'd be safer in a car than on a scooter. It's not 100% clear to me from your post why he can't be trusted to drive a car, but whatever those reasons are, they should go triple for the scooter.

Maybe I'm missing something; I can't think of any reason that would make me not want to share the road with your son in a car, yet feel fine sharing the road with him in a scooter.

However, the other folks on the road, the ones he's presumably going to get into an accident with because of his unspecified deficiencies, are much less likely to be hurt if he's on a scooter instead of in a car. They may not even realize they've hit him. I don't think this is a particularly compelling argument for putting him on a scooter.
posted by ikkyu2 at 2:19 PM on May 30, 2007

Thanks for the advice everybody.

ICYWW, I'm going to encourage my brother to get a bike both for my sanity and his safety. He's hyperactive so it could be a great workout as well as liberation from the time-constrained public transportation system. Hopefully this will acclimate him to road conditions (per yohko’s comment) if he does decide that motorized personal transport is the way to go.

After thinking about it and reading some of your comments, I too believe that a scooter is a terrible idea. If anything, a car may be the safest vehicle for everyone.

Special thanks to Wilder, CRS, chrominance, and others with family members on the autism spectrum for speaking up.

mbrubeck, I actually remember your quote from my research on motorcycles last month :)

chrominance, your point about freezing up is well taken. He, like many guys with autism, absolutely crumbles when things don’t go as planned. An episode like that on the road would be a disaster.

To sum up, I will urge him not to get a scooter and instead try out a bike. The sidewalks and roomier bike lanes should be a nice introduction to the rules of the road.

As many of you rightly and sometimes condescendingly noted, this will be his decision. But what many of you don’t understand is that he has been and will always be my responsibility. I’m not trying to make these decisions for him; I’m simply trying to help him through a sometimes difficult life as best I can. I'm his older brother and he respects my opinion.

I appreciate all of your advice on this subject and thank you for helping me through a difficult decision. Feel free to continue commenting if you have any other insights.
posted by willie11 at 3:23 PM on May 30, 2007

If I were in your shoes, I would be okay letting him get a scooter. That being said, presuming you're going for a bike first, maybe you guys could work on planning out daily routes that go through quieter, less trafficked, and less distracting streets? You don't have to insist on his taking the shortest way from point A to point B; maybe a roundabout route by a park or on a residential side street is a better choice for him.
posted by Asparagirl at 4:17 PM on May 30, 2007

willie11, I would like to applaud you for the obvious love and care you are expending on your brother. I'm sure you take it for granted, but you don't have to do what you are.

As I said, I have two autistic boys - one higher functioning than the other. I also have two daughters who are as normal as any woman can be (/jk). I sometimes worry about who will take care of my boys when I'm gone and I worry about the burden my wife and I will be placing on the girls. Hearing about siblings like yourself who take on the responsibility with love and without a sense of burden really reassures me.

Good luck with your brother and thanks for picking me up a bit.
posted by CRS at 7:35 AM on May 31, 2007