Are Harleys for poseurs only?

April 23, 2007 1:38 PM

Are Harley-Davidsons for poseurs and mid-life crisis yuppies only, or can low key folks like me ride on without fear of getting that stigma assigned to them too?

I am an experienced rider. I started riding in my teens, and have owned several (mostly BMWs) over the years, on which I have logged many tens of thousands of miles. I sold my last bike a couple of years ago when I was travelling too much for work and couldn't justify insurance and garage costs, but now that work has settled down a bit

Now that things are looking to settle down again, I'm looking to get a good bike for weekend rides, and some some day trips in upstate New York, Western Jersey and New England.

I'm looking at a BMW K1200S and a Harley-Davidson Softail "Night Train". I know all about the BMW. I owned one for 5 years from 1996-2001 and put close to 100,000 miles on it. It's a reliable, high performing bike, is comfy and is very, very fast. The Harley snuck up on me. I walked into a H-D dealership on a lark, just to survey the field and tried out the Softail. Now it offers, of course, a completely different style of riding than the BMW, but I really liked the looks and feel of it. So, I'm torn. Old reliable vs. something new and different.

Since I'm now going to be doing weekend riding from this point, and not the hard, long distance daily riding I did in my 20s and 30s, I don't really need the performer that the K1200 is; in fact, as fun as it is to ride, it might be overkill for my requirements.. though the amenities (ABS, GPS, heated grips, sport footpegs, sizable hard bags for storage) are definitely very nice.

That said, a few questions. Does a 40-something, professional white guy always look like Mr. Midlife Crisis on a Harley? I try not to be self-conscious about such things, but I would hate being a stereotype. Do the service records and performance specs of these machines merit the price? Or, am I being a sucker because I've fallen in love with her for her looks alone, and am overlooking her shortcomings?

DISCLAIMER: Obviously, my short-form question is intended to be tongue in cheek. I have met and ridden with many traditional Harley folks over the years that swear blood allegiance to these machines, and I have nothing but respect for them. I'm just a little bit leery of joining the yuppie faux rebel club that H-D has been marketing to these past 10 years or so. Or maybe it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks when the rubber meets the road. Opinions definitely appreciated

posted by Tommy Gnosis to sports, hobbies, & recreation (36 comments total)

I think the Harley is okay as long as you don't wear chaps or a leather vest with a motorcycle club patch on the back.
posted by bitdamaged at 1:51 PM on April 23, 2007

I know absolutely nothing about motorcycles but I have to say...

You obviously are knowledgeable about and adore Harleys; what's the problem? Is your self-consciousness so crippling that you can't enjoy something you love? The kind of people who might feel compelled to tell you that only middle-aged "poseurs" ride Harleys and what you should do is buy brand X are the kind of people who were likely to get into an argument with you in junior high over your choice of sneaker.

Happy riding. Be safe!
posted by inoculatedcities at 1:53 PM on April 23, 2007

Of course anyone can ride a Harley. But I don't think you can escape the yuppie mid-life-crisis poseur stigma. It's a pretty strongly-established stereotype amongst non-bikers.
posted by Aloysius Bear at 1:55 PM on April 23, 2007

Tips to avoid looking like a poseur:
Avoid Harley-Davidson-emblazoned cyclewear, and avoid people who wear it. Don't rip down residential streets just because you can be loud. Try to avoid looking like you just bought all your gear and you're wearing it to the mall to show everybody that you just bought a Harley. Avoid those dumb skull lids.

But I think you knew all this. I've seen lots of people who come across as just riders, and happen to ride Harleys. You don't become yuppie scum just from the Harley... it takes more yuppiness than that.

I can't speak to service records - I think they're pretty good these days. Hard to beat a BMW tho.
posted by dammitjim at 1:57 PM on April 23, 2007

Wow. What extremely different bikes you’re looking at. If you’re really worried about people thinking you’re a poser, well fuck um. Somebody’s gonna find a reason ‘you suck’ for every conceivable combo of wheels and engines you can drive. From SUV’s to Vespers some dong will hate something about it.
I’d go with the BMW because maybe one weekend after a long crap week you’ll want to open it up and go so fast it will be an insult to god. And the Beamer can give you that.
On second take the Harley’s a great classic looking bike. Pricey for the performance though. Just stay clear of the chaps unless you’re changing your name to E-Train.
oh and I’m so jealous I may cry.
posted by French Fry at 2:05 PM on April 23, 2007

Ex-Beemer pilot here. I've known a few guys down here in Florida who got off BMW's and bought Harley's for social reasons, as there is a lot more Harley support down here than BMW shops, especially for Bike Week events, etc. They spend a lot more time and money on the Harley hobby than ever they did on the BMWs they owned, but a lot less time actually riding. And the terrain around here has no mountain roads, and lots of fairly straight, flat roads through miles and miles of scrub pine and palmetto, and more than a thousand miles of boring but scenic coastal road. And hundreds of thousands of elderly drivers, doing 35 to 45 miles an hour. Perfect Harley country. Really good for club poker runs.

Living where you do, however, I'd still take the Beemer, unless a crisp fall day and a curvy mountain road no longer bring a smile to your face.
posted by paulsc at 2:13 PM on April 23, 2007

Would buying the Harley mean that you would no longer feel comfortable wearing a full-faced helmet and top-to-bottom safety gear? Would you put on those damn straight pipes that hurt my ears at stoplights? Then don't buy it. Otherwise, they are both good bikes and both will put a smile on your face on a nice weekend ride (but they are totally different -- I'm really surprised you are considering only those two, rather than a K1200S vs another sport-tourer, or the HD vs a traditional BMW boxer or a Japanese cruiser) and both can be ridden for fun and will hold up for lots of miles.

Personally, I'd say go ahead and try something new -- buy a Harley. The slower and more relaxed HD may get you to stop and smell the roses more on your rides, rather than the fast-and-faster riding that a K1200S can inspire. The older I get, the less interested I am in going fast, but I know for many people the reverse is true. Whether or not you look like a mid-life crisis guy depends on whether you dress the part -- matching HD clothes, accessories, etc.
posted by Forktine at 2:29 PM on April 23, 2007

Can you escape the stigma? Not likely. I'm not sure that should color your decision. If you're an experienced rider, something new and novel could be worth its weight in gold. And once it stops being novel, sell it and get the BMW.
posted by lekvar at 2:40 PM on April 23, 2007

This is outside the scope of your earlier question, but have you considered a Triumph Sprint ST? Cheaper than either the BMW or HD, comes with hard bags standard, and sports a 1050 cc triple that is being described as one of the best road bike engines ever. I've had one for about 6 weeks now and it is flat out the best bike I've ever ridden. I have owned similar bikes to you in the past.

Every motorcycle scene had posers and dickheads. If you're even asking this question, it probably means you're not one of them.
posted by tim_in_oz at 2:58 PM on April 23, 2007

I think the stereotype is stronger amongst the non-bikers than it is among the bikers. This is more a question about whether some sucker in a Honda will think less of you, and less about whether you'll get love from a biker (no matter what he or she's on). I think if you dress the part of a long-distance rider, and not a once-per-month beer runner, then you'll do something to dodge the stereotype. But not for people whose views are so unrefined as to be visible.
posted by zpousman at 2:59 PM on April 23, 2007

Personally I think all motorcycles are cool. And all motorcycles brands have some stigma assigned to them. I think it just boils down to what stigma, and which bike, are the most comfortable for you.

(Get the Beemer!)
posted by suki at 3:24 PM on April 23, 2007

As a former motorcyclist who swore it off after a single accident (read: wimp), I'd like to reemphasize forktine's important point -- the BMW lends itself to full safety gear, whereas I've rarely seen anyone wearing more than a faceless brain bucket and a denim vest on an HD.

And as a driver who appreciates function over form, I can't help but equate today's HD with the Hummer H3 (and H2 for that matter) -- a bloated, overstyled, overpriced, overchromed and poorly made status symbol.

To me, the legacy of the classic Harley, like that of the original, utilitarian HMMV, has been co-opted to appeal to people who wish they went on adventures, and want it to appear that they have adventures, but who never actually go on adventures.

You asked for opinions, and that's mine. Though I fully acknowledge that it is likely terribly flawed, there's no disputing that it is widely held and, to a degree, based in reality.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 4:21 PM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

2nd-ing the Triumph suggestion. My dad got a Daytona 955 Triumph after owning an older Harley and two BMWs (and a Kawasaki Ninja ZX11). He loves it.
Harleys are often very expensive to maintain. My dad's beemers were fussy and broke often. He has no complaints about his amazing Triumph. Of course, YMMV.
posted by nursegracer at 4:32 PM on April 23, 2007

Buy the Harley, enjoy the Harley.

Don't dress like a store bought pirate and I'll still give you the wave should our paths cross.

(But then I ride a Buell so my opinion may be worthless.)
posted by tcskeptic at 4:43 PM on April 23, 2007

(warning: logorrhea ahead)

Hey, I ride a late-model Sportster and I feel your pain, Tommy, re: the stereotype, but here's how I combat it: 1) No chrome, skulls, fringe, H-D branded apparel, and so on. 2) No loud exhaust! Bone stock, baby. 3) I have no qualms about wearing safety gear, like a full-face helmet & armored gear, and even including a reflective vest at night. Geek City! 4) Most importantly, I ride the hell out of the sucker. 26,000 miles in 2 years ain't bad.

Oh, and to answer your question: Yes, by and large Harleys are for poseurs. If you get one you'll constantly have conversations with people who bought the "lifestyle" with a gold Amex and amassed 1200 road miles in 3 years. This is a real drag. In fact, sometimes you might be embarrassed about being a Harley rider. But: the more you talk to "real riders" the more you'll find that lots of people do like Harleys in addition to that GSXR or Goldwing or RT or elderly Nighthawk they also have in the garage.

For what it's worth and as you may know, there are actually a lot of different stereotypes amongst Harley riders: the hardcore outlaw lifestyle types, who are generally a nasty lot; the yuppies who bought in for the investment; the social types who never ride except in groups based on their occupation, political affiliation, or on "toy runs" (ugh); the blue-collar guys who won't settle for anything less, are saving up for one, and resent the yuppies; and yes, those of us who actually ride ours. And that's only a few.

Short version: Go ahead and get what you want. You can always trade it in later.
posted by scratch at 4:47 PM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

Thanks to everyone who contributed here. I'm going to take both models out for a final test drive tomorrow and see where I end up. I suspect that after experiencing the rideability of each I will go with the K bike, but I will like to remember this period as the time I came really really close to buying a Harley.

But... you never know.

FWIW, nothing against Triumphs, they're nice looking bikes, but I had a really bad experience with a very leaky Bonneville about 8 years ago. Was a nightmare from start to finish. Never again.
posted by Tommy Gnosis at 4:50 PM on April 23, 2007

Do the service records and performance specs of these machines merit the price? Or, am I being a sucker because I've fallen in love with her for her looks alone, and am overlooking her shortcomings?

Forgot to addresss this: My bike has been entirely trouble-free since the day I rode it home. And did you know that HD labor rates are cheaper than Ducati's? At least here in NYC they are. Performance wise, it depends on what you get. A Fat Boy, for instance, will be an absolute slug compared to the BMW. Try a Sporty, it's a lot of fun and handles great. And is the lightest of the Harleys, which is a big factor in my opinion, but then I'm a female person with no upper body strength.
posted by scratch at 4:53 PM on April 23, 2007

I say you do what I do...

Every couple years, scan craigslist or your local bulletin board for a cheap, older bike. Buy it cheap. Learn to fix it yourself.

Ride it and be proud.

I've had 3 bikes--started at 17 on a Honda Rebel, had someone cut me off and sold it because I was skairt. A couple years ago, I picked up a beat-up old Kawasaki KZ440 LTD. Amazingly ugly bike, fast as HELL, easy to work on, and 60mpg.

This summer I picked up his big brother, a KZ750 LTD, in amazing shape for $400. Here's a link to pics:
http://flickr.com/photos/tommelee/

The KZ series are all extremely lightweight, with powerful motors that are in general too big for the frames they're in. Anyway, I'm rambling, but my point is this:

Motorcycling is about being an individual. It's about having something special, something unique, and for me--I like riding something that I've never seen anyone else around me ride, and I like the pride that comes with knowing I can fix it myself---I don't have to take it to a knucklehead to get it done.

Harley's don't suck so bad now w/ the Evolution motors, but they're still (imo), overpriced and usually purchased for instant karma. Beamers are incredible bikes--but they're for a different crowd. If you're going to ride for *hours* and *hours*, getting the beating of your life from that harddtail harley will soon suck. No fairing, constant vibrations, yuck. You could ride that 1200 beamer *all week long*. Of course, same could be said for a Gold Wing--and for a lot less cash.
posted by TomMelee at 5:03 PM on April 23, 2007

But then I ride a Buell so my opinion may be worthless

This is something to consider: a Buell really splits the difference between the two bikes you are considering, and has a lot more character than either. Sporty, but with a lumpy V-twin engine, and gets thumbs up from both BMW and HD riders. (Can you tell that I want one? Badly?)
posted by Forktine at 5:12 PM on April 23, 2007

Does a 40-something, professional white guy always look like Mr. Midlife Crisis on a Harley?

Yes. Sorry.

Also, I've been on the back of a bike or two in my time, and I'd hop on the BMW but not the Harley. BMWs are just a more pleasant ride, IMO.
posted by desuetude at 5:32 PM on April 23, 2007

Oh, and I know that you know that. I'm just saying that you don't have to be a super-experienced bike rider to looove the BMW bike-goodness.
posted by desuetude at 5:33 PM on April 23, 2007

I'm curious why the R1200C flew under your radar. It seems like if I was picking a BMW to side-by-side with a Softail, that it might be a more logical choice.
posted by ikkyu2 at 5:37 PM on April 23, 2007

I'm curious why the R1200C flew under your radar.

Really just a question of personal taste. I don't really like the styling of the cruiser all that much, even though I know it is a great bike. Really, though, if I could get another R100/R just like the one I had back in the early 90s, I'd take it in a second.
posted by Tommy Gnosis at 5:52 PM on April 23, 2007

My $0.02 (from an SV650S rider, here): Harleys underperform in every way. They're overpriced, handle badly, accelerate poorly, stop slowly, weigh too much, have zero racing pedigree, and are unreliable. There is absolutely no logical reason to choose one over another bike except for the "lifestyle" (read: marketing department). If you're serious about riding for riding's sake, you don't choose a Harley-Davidson bike, and serious riders know it. All of this definitely reflects upon its owner.

With that said, you really should get what you want. If you'll get more personal joy from an H-D despite the unavoidable stigma (or perhaps even because you like the associations that come with H-D ownership), by all means get one. Just know that unless you're wearing full gear, you won't get a wave from me. :)

Also, a Buell? Worst of both worlds - a decent frame crippled by a horrible engine, imo.
posted by TheNewWazoo at 6:34 PM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

A couple of minutes someone posted this to Metachat:

Except for vanishingly rare exceptions, a Harley sends a clear message to anyone within hearing distance that the rider is an immense tool with crushing self-esteem issues who cares about nothing except what other people think of him. Other vehicles send this message to varying degrees, but a Harley simply has no other discernible purpose.

posted by Aloysius Bear at 7:03 PM on April 23, 2007

This American Life had a great episode dealing with a guy who had been using an underarm deoderant until he heard some obnoxious ad on the radio. Since that time he couldn't buy it because every time he would go to the drug store he thought the cashier would assume he bought it because of the ad.

Most self perceptions are in your head. If you wear your old, beat up leather, even the vets won't think you are a wannabe. They will just assume you've finally upgraded your old bike.

With that said and also as a lifelong Milwaukeean, I must tell you to forget the Hardley and get the BMW. Hardleys have many more mechanical problems than BMWs and I can't tell you how many new bikes I saw on the side of the road during the 100th reunion. I laughed my ass off at these riders in their brand new leather and the H-D brand boots, doo-rag, etc. Yeah, whatever you do, don't turn into one of them.
posted by JJ86 at 7:27 PM on April 23, 2007

Go for what makes you most happy in the end.

But, you'll look like a lot more of a tool on the Harley. Between the "lifestyle" marketing and the fact that Harleys are pretty shitty bikes, the vast majority of people will openly, or secretly, laugh at you.
posted by teishu at 7:46 PM on April 23, 2007

Just to add a data point, I will think you're a wanker. You're obviously not-your passion for and knowledge of bikes comes across in your post, but I can't help but view HD's as mid-life crisis mobiles, for the most part. As another data point, the two Harley owners I knew really were obnoxious. Not so with BMW owners.

Get the Bimmer.
posted by HighTechUnderpants at 11:54 PM on April 23, 2007

I would second the suggestion to look at the Buell lineup. A Buell might be just what you are looking for - HD engine, in a sporty chassis.

The other thing I suggest you do is to check out the new KTM lineup. I think you'll be surprised. The new SuperDuke is being reviewed in superlatives everywhere: Telegraph UK, MotorcycleUSA, AMA News, Motorbikes Today, Motorcyclist, One.Motoring, OneWheelDrive, The Sun Online, and the LA Times.
posted by gen at 1:58 AM on April 24, 2007

Don't dress like a store bought pirate and I'll still give you the wave should our paths cross.

It's a funny comment to be sure, but oddly enough, in my 20 odd years of riding, I have found the opposite to be true. Rare is the instance that I will get a wave from a Harley rider when I am out and about (and I pretty much wave to everyone). I have noticed this in riding out west, in the Midwest and now her on the east cost. When you put your hand out there to greet an oncoming biker, and that person is on a hog, getting a reciprocal wave back will only happen about 1 in 10. I had often wondered if this was due to the fact that Harleys attracted inexperienced riders who weren't yet familiar with rider culture, or they were intentional snubs. I kind of presume the latter.

I think that tells me all I need to know.

At any rate, thanks all for the help, and it looks very much like I'll be picking up one of these today. :-)
posted by Tommy Gnosis at 4:11 AM on April 24, 2007

Have you tried a beemer with ABS?
posted by Raybun at 4:41 AM on April 24, 2007

So, I surprised myself this week. As planned, I went to my local BMW dealer on Tuesday morning and test rode a K1200R (they don't make the RS any more, which was my old ride), a K1200S and a R1200ST. They were all fine rides, well balanced, extremely powerful (162hp, yikes!!!). Pretty much exactly as I had remembered the K-bikes. When I was finished, I shook the dealer's hand took his card, and said I'd be back "with the boss" (code for my wife) to finalize the deal. Then a funny thing happened. Just for shits and giggles, I went to the Harley dealer down the street.

A very nice guy actually, not smarmy or cheesy at all, he chatted me up, listened to my story and suggested that I sit down on a few bikes, try them on for size. I sampled Road Kinds, Dyna Wide Glides, Buells, Sportsters, Fat Boys, Softail Customs and a few other models I can't recall. But, I kept coming back to that Softail Night Train. It has little chrome, the engine is blacked out, and had no detailing. It looked long, lean and mean. So, I took one out for a ride.

It was awesome. A completely organic experience. No fairing, no ABS, no electronic suspension adjustment. Just me, the machine, the road. That's it. I was in love.

I bought it, and drove it home today. Man, I have to tell you I'm crazy about it. I probably look a bit weird with my orange dayglo helmet with the reflective halo, and my nylon and kevlar jacket, but who gives a shit. Riding a motorcycle is about being connected to the road, feeling the elements and making the experience last.

Don't get me wrong, BMWs are awesome bikes. And if I can find an old /5 or /7 to tinker with, I will do it in a second, but these new BMWs were lacking something. They seemed to be a bit too engineered, like they didn't have souls.

At any rate, this is already sounding cheesy, but with your help, I think my question is now answered. Do I look like a mid-life crisis guy on my new Harley? Maybe. Who cares? But it's the bike the fits me right now, for where I am in life, and I ain't giving it back.

I'm also still going to wear a full faced helmet and reflective riding gear. So at the end of of the day, if I'm now a pariah in the BMW world, I'm also an outcast among Harley guys.

Just how I like it.
posted by Tommy Gnosis at 4:33 PM on April 26, 2007

...but who gives a shit.
Well there you go.

Nice to get a post script on this thread. Enjoy the bike.
posted by lekvar at 6:02 PM on April 26, 2007

...but who gives a shit.
Well there you go.

Looking at that just now, that seems a bit crude, but in a way I think that was at the heart of the matter. This AskMe post can be summarized as follows:

TG: Should I give a shit?
Resps: Probably not.
TG: Thanks!
(Time elapses, actions taken)
TG: Hey! Turns out I don't give a shit after all!
posted by Tommy Gnosis at 3:08 AM on April 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

Give the wave and you're golden. Don't wave, and you're a pose(u)r.
posted by Eideteker at 8:37 AM on May 2, 2007

Have fun and be safe!
posted by ikkyu2 at 12:32 PM on June 7, 2007