Can't teach an old dog new licks...

April 22, 2007 1:03 AM

When I read the biographies of artists I admire, they always seem to start with lines like "began playing the piano at 5", "got first drumkit at 7", and so forth. Every great musician I've known personally got started at a very young age, usually before age 12. Have there been any successful (defined here as having produced music enjoyed by a significant number of people) who came to music relatively late in life? Past 18? 30? 40?
posted by phrontist to media & arts (29 comments total)

Oh, and pop or novelty stuff doesn't really count - I would not count Paris Hilton as an example of a musical late bloomer.
posted by phrontist at 1:07 AM on April 22, 2007

Three classical composers come to mind, all of whom, however, had early music training. Anton Bruckner studied music from his youth, but did not achieve success as a composer until his forties. Similarly, César Franck was known in his youth as a piano prodigy, but the music he is best known for (including his symphony) was composed when he was in his sixties. Then, there is Elliott Carter, whose musical success came only after he embraced atonality in his forties.

Perhaps more unusually, two singers who took up voice relatively late in life have been in the news in the past year. Lorraine Hunt-Lieberson was an accomplished violist who began vocal training only in her mid-twenties. Her flourishing career was cut short last year by breast cancer at age 52. Then, there is the tale of Erika Sunnegardh, never a success and seemingly past her prime at 40, until suddenly finding herself center-stage at the Met, singing the killer role of Leonore in Beethoven's Fidelio.
posted by rob511 at 3:31 AM on April 22, 2007

I don't know how well known he is outside of Canada, but Matthew Good didn't pick up a guitar and start songwriting until he was at least 20 or so. I can't seem to find a reference for this, so I guess you'll have to take my word for it.
posted by good in a vacuum at 3:39 AM on April 22, 2007

Er, I should have said he didn't learn guitar until he was at least 20 or so.
posted by good in a vacuum at 3:46 AM on April 22, 2007

R.L. Burnside
posted by LoriFLA at 4:12 AM on April 22, 2007

I've read some recentish research suggesting that early, early musical training--like, 4 years old-- is strongly associated with perfect pitch; if that's true, it wouldn't surprise me if almost everyone at the top tier of musical virtuosity got an early start. But I'm happy to be proven wrong.
posted by Jeanne at 4:23 AM on April 22, 2007

Bob Dylan? He came to the guitar late on, having been a pianist until then.

Beware of biographies. They're never neutral. In the commercial world they serve a defined purpose. If you're a musician, it doesn't make sense to say that you didn't touch an instrument until your late teens. It makes more sense to say that you picked-up a guitar at the age of three.

Watch out for hyperbole too. I once heard scholars point out that, while Mozart might have been a childhood prodigy, his early stuff was derivative—little more than copies of what he heard around him.
posted by humblepigeon at 5:35 AM on April 22, 2007

Good question. I'm sure there are, just wish I could think of some offhand. I had a little bit of piano training as a kid but I didn't become a singer until I was 30, and I'm sure that there have to be other people like me who got onstage for the first time on a dare or something. All I can think of is someone like Rene Marie who sang around the house while she was raising a family but then worked to become a professional jazz singer after her kids grew up.
posted by miss lynnster at 6:23 AM on April 22, 2007

Mary Coughlan (Irish jazz singer) started in her late twenties, and she really only hit her stride in her 30s.
posted by outlier at 7:47 AM on April 22, 2007

Developing skill requires lots of practice time. People who start practicing early in life are more likely to have put in the time necessary to become highly skilled.

That said, I know Sally Ellyson of Hem had never sung professionally before she joined that band.
posted by kindall at 8:09 AM on April 22, 2007 [1 favorite]

Leonard Cohen.
posted by Kirklander at 8:11 AM on April 22, 2007

Kelley Deal learned to play guitar in her 30s.

Jah Wobble learned to play bass after he joined PiL, he would of been 19 or 20 and developed into a consummate bass player.
posted by bobo123 at 9:08 AM on April 22, 2007

Biographies are tricky to write and read. If so and so got a drum kit at age 8 but didnt learn how play drums until high school, well, as a biographer it makes a lot of sense to play up that drum kit, but that doesnt mean there's a real connection between childhood exposure to music and adult success.
posted by damn dirty ape at 9:29 AM on April 22, 2007

There was an article I read recently (can someone source this?) that suggested people need at least 10 years practice to acquire and master a difficult skill: painting, calculus, piano, etc. This was certainly true for me with programming. I started programming about ten years ago and kept at it; I even taught it. After the first few months, I was already doing useful things (and I'm sure neophyte musicians can play a few songs relatively quickly), but I didn't feel like a PROGRAMMER until recently. Only now do I feel like it's "in my bones." I'm 41 now and I started at about 30.

Which makes me wonder if I took up the piano now and (rigorously) kept at it until I was 50, I'd be really good. I wonder whether it's youth per se that makes a difference. My guess is it partly does, since the young bain is wired for learning massive amounts of info very quickly. But I wonder if another factor is that once someone reaches adulthood, he's less apt to spend a decade working on a new skill. He's more likely to be very busy working, raising a family, etc. And he's more likely to feel that (a) he doesn't have enough time left, and (b) he's past the age where he can master new things. Both of those last points are false, but I think many feel them to be true, anyway.

In terms of music, also note that our culture judges musicians on many factors other than skill (e.g. how they look in tight jeans). So I wonder how easy it would be for a 56-year-old to break through, even if he was brilliant.
posted by grumblebee at 9:33 AM on April 22, 2007 [3 favorites]

Mary Gauthier (alt-country singer/songwriter) wrote her first song when she was 35.
posted by Gilbert at 9:41 AM on April 22, 2007

Adrian Belew learned to play the guitar when he was 16. He learned drums at 10.
posted by oflinkey at 9:45 AM on April 22, 2007

Leos Janacek is a great example of a musician (composer) who didn't really get going until his 50's...
posted by ob at 9:56 AM on April 22, 2007

Peter Buck (of R.E.M.) allegedly didn't play guitar until he was 16.
posted by punchdrunkhistory at 10:22 AM on April 22, 2007

Julio Iglesias meets your criteria.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 10:35 AM on April 22, 2007

Chris Adler of Lamb of God didn't start playing drums until college.
posted by john m at 11:15 AM on April 22, 2007

Ed O'Brien of Radiohead started in his late teens, I believe. I remember an anecdote from Desmond Morris, who knows/knew his family, about him playing air guitar as a teen, implied he didn't play real guitar yet.
posted by abcde at 11:21 AM on April 22, 2007

Wired has an article on this very subject. The author divides creative people into two types, those who peak at an early age (termed Conceptualists) and those who peak later on in life (Experimentalists). Conceptualists come up with a great idea early on in life, while Experimentalists tend to improve their work incrementally. The theory was applied to musicians, artists, authors, and a range of creative types.
posted by meowzilla at 11:52 AM on April 22, 2007

I don't know how well known he is outside of Canada, but Matthew Good didn't pick up a guitar and start songwriting until he was at least 20 or so. I can't seem to find a reference for this, so I guess you'll have to take my word for it.

I've also read this in one of his biographies but unfortunately I don't have a source either.
posted by saraswati at 1:12 PM on April 22, 2007

Great question. I started playing drums at 16 and guitar around 18, and I've always wondered the same thing.

I'll let you know when I make it big :)
posted by Chris4d at 1:18 PM on April 22, 2007

Similarly, a previous AskMe question about writers, only the reverse of your question. Seems to me that musicians tend to start early and peak early, while writers need not only years of language and writing experience, but practical life experience as well.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:25 PM on April 22, 2007

grumblebee - Virtuoso Trumpet Player Maurice Andre started playing at 12 1/2 and was an award winning player at 18. Pretty astounding for 5.5 years of playing.
posted by plinth at 7:45 PM on April 22, 2007

The funny thing is that at this point I'm so much more impressed when someone is a successful musician and didn't start until later in life. I went to see Li Yundi play about a year back and we were all astonished to learn he didn't start piano lessons until he was seven years old...we'd assumed he was one of those prodigies who had a toy piano in the cradle, but seven is when I started piano. I mean, I stopped at eleven, so no analogy there, but the point is that normal humans actually start lessons at 7. Most of my friends started instruments younger.

It would be so freaking cool in a biography to see that such-and-such virtuoso started playing later in life. I guess they feel the need to convey that said virtuoso was "born to make music" or some such, but it falls flat to me...what a cliche.
posted by crinklebat at 3:22 PM on April 23, 2007

Interesting question. I'm late to this thread, but for those who are still reading: it might be useful to think about how different technique and creativity are in terms of their development potential over a person's life. I think for most people, a real instinct towards building physical technique is something that comes from early training and (logically) the parental values that almost always go along with that.

I say this as a pro composer (conservatory-trained / now supporting myself with grants-commissions-etc.) who will happily admit I NEVER could have become a pro classical instrumentalist, because I have very little 'digital discipline' -- I'm pretty much unable to force myself to practice boring & repetitive things with my fingers, like scales or exercises.

I had no formal music lessons of any kind until high school (when I started at a high school for the arts) because we couldn't afford them. And I'm VERY disciplined / able to focus in other senses.

So, generalizing from my case, possibly digital discipline is a special kind of discipline that, in most cases, people either develop as a little kid or don't develop at all.
posted by allterrainbrain at 6:38 PM on April 23, 2007

Ira Kaplan of Yo La Tengo started late, having previously been a rock critic.
posted by klangklangston at 6:38 PM on April 28, 2007