Getting back into RTS

March 1, 2007 9:47 AM

In the market for an Real Time Strategy game: haven't played one since Dungeon Keeper II. What do you suggest?

I'm looking to invest in an RTS, but I'm wary of the PC RTS market since I've been out for several years. I loved the Dungeon Keeper series because it kept thing up close and you could even go first-person if you so desired. I like building keeps and the like (especially designing defenses), planning routes of attack, and generally controlling things in open-ended situations, but I hate dealing with huge world maps rather than seeing the actual battlefields/whatever. This leads me to believe I would not like the Civilization series.

That being said, what do you suggest?

posted by Phyltre to computers & internet (18 comments total)

Warcraft III. Best damn RTS I've ever played.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:53 AM on March 1, 2007

Many people recommend Company of Heroes. It's a WWII RTS, highly rated. I haven't played it yet so I can't fully recommend it.
posted by sharkfu at 9:53 AM on March 1, 2007

Warcraft III is pretty great; easy to get into but without sacrificing complexity at the higher levels. Also the Starcraft series, while dated, is also very fun and in a similar vein except your in space! Company of Heroes is a very good, but if you want something really fun and immersive I’d go for either Foo-Craft game. Plus you could either one wicked cheap because they’ve been on the market so long.

No hands-on keep building in any of them though.
posted by French Fry at 10:00 AM on March 1, 2007

Also an advantage of Warcraft III is that, like in Dungeon Keeper II, you get the option of playing as the bad guys, murdering all the would-be heroes you want.
posted by French Fry at 10:09 AM on March 1, 2007

Have there been any decent RTS games released where you get to build things?
posted by Phyltre at 10:18 AM on March 1, 2007

well there is all those -tycoon games, maps might be a bit big though
posted by edgeways at 10:28 AM on March 1, 2007

Dawn Of War is similar to DK in that you generally control smaller numbers of troops than the usual RTS (like Age Of Empires, for example). The graphics are pretty nice and the gameplay is good too, although there is more of a focus on attacking and aggressive play than resource gathering and defense building.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 10:37 AM on March 1, 2007

I have three recommendations from opposite sides of the RTS spectrum.

On the side of small, visceral, aggressive, and quick battles I'll heartily second Dawn of War. It's made by the same people as Company of Heroes. There are two good expansions, and the single player game in the second is dramatically different (and quite a bit better). In it there is a world map, but it's very small and manageable and doesn't feel anything like Civilization or Europa Universalis. If you get Dawn of War, I'd definitely pick the expansions up. I've been playing this game since release about two years back and it's still a lot of fun.

On the side of epic, strategic real-time gameplay I'm a big fan of Supreme Commander. The game is a technical marvel (meaning it doesn't run exceptionally well on most contemporary hardware. I've got a machine that was quite nice a year ago and on medium detail at 1600x1200 things start to chug at times. Since everything -- bullets, units, bombs -- in the gameworld is simulated, the bottleneck is CPU more than GPU). You don't get a world map, but you get battlefields that are a) to scale with your forces, and b) up to 80km on a side. You manage hundreds of units; base-building is deep; an the control scheme makes managing everything nice and easy. It's more about strategy than tactics, which is what makes it different from the other games mentioned so far.

As good as they are, neither of these titles has what made Dungeon Keeper so interesting to me. In DK you often don't have direct control of your units. If that's what attracted you to the game, I'd recommend Majesty. It's a pretty old title, but it's like Dungeon Keeper in that you coerce, rather than direct, your forces.

Have fun!
posted by amery at 11:07 AM on March 1, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

This may be a wild tangent, but if you have an Xbox 360 available, check out Viva Pinata which is a terrific(but different) RTS game
posted by neilkod at 12:07 PM on March 1, 2007

Another vote for Supreme Commander. You say you don't like huge maps. Well, Supreme Commander has a revolutionary control scheme that's blindingly simple to use. Mouse wheel zoom in, mouse wheel zoom out. It's that easy. You zoom in to see your base and issue orders, you zoom out to manage units on a tactical level, you zoom way out and get a "satellite view" of the entire map at once.

Once you try it, you'll wonder how you could play another RTS game without it.
posted by frogan at 12:48 PM on March 1, 2007

Command and Conquer 3 is set to be released for the end of March.

You could check out C and C generals (with it's expansion, zero hour) if you like strategic unit management and base building without having to worry about too much of the Macro elements. Plus, dropping a nuke on your friends base is really satisfying.

I have to disagree with Warcraft 3, because I hated it. Perhaps I was expecting it to pick up where Starcraft left off, which it totally failed to do. Others seem to like it though.

Civilization is turn based, not real time. A real time game that has civ-ish parts but focuses on building is Rise of Nations. I personally didn't like it because of some of these reasons, but lots of my friends loved it.
posted by utsutsu at 1:37 PM on March 1, 2007

I love RTS. I own quite a few games in that genre. I've been told that I'm a 'mushroom' player. I guess that means I expand early with very little army and then crank out defenses once I establish an economy. That may skew the types of games I like. But here are my suggestions:

The best I've played so far is Company of Heroes. It was a little hard for me to start at first because it requires a bit of horsepower. Also, the strategy took some time to get used to. However, I think it has the best use of environment in any RTS game I've played so far. Most games you only have to think about elevation and range. In COH, you have to use the ground cover for your troops. It has the best feel I've played so far and the troop movement is 'smart'. I hate trying to build a battle line by hand. In COH, your troops will use the cover they can find automatically. I also appreciate the lack of economy micromanagement. Another good feature is that Nazi/Axis units are completely different and require a different strategy to play. Finally, it is possible to come back from a massive beating in the endgame. Superior numbers won't guarantee you a win. This game is fun both as a single or multi player

Rise of Nations was a good game. I liked the Civ aspect of it mixed in with a real RTS. I also liked the general lack of economy micromanagement. However, it got pretty repetitive because the units are the same for everyone. Also, the endgame is pretty boring. Just build up massive armies and pit them against each other (Red Alert style). I only really played this one as single player, haven't played against anyone yet.

Ground Control 2 brought some interesting gameplay to the RTS genre, but I thought it got kind of boring in single player. Never got a chance to play multi.

I tried Homeworld 2. I'm not a spaceship RTS guy though, but I thought it was worth picking up used for $10. You don't control individual units so much though, more of a fleet manuvering game. It looked really nice and had a good feel after I got used to controlling the units in 3d.

Earth 2050 was okay, you might be able to pick up a used copy for < $10. it had terrain, smoke, day/night. played in single player though. probably would have been fun in multi player like total annihilation, but it took forever to upgrade your units.br>
I really like games where each different 'team' has unique units and unique gameplay. Games that I really enjoyed back in the day were regular C&C and Starcraft. C&C generals is a very good follow up to C&C, but I would not recommend Red Alert or Tiberian Sun.

I would be interested in hearing peoples experience with RTS/FPS games like Natural Selection.
posted by kookywon at 2:15 PM on March 1, 2007

Company of Heroes is the first RTS in a long time that has really impressed me. I've played tons of RTS games since Dune 2 and most have been regurgitations of the same gameplay. I like Blizzard's games, which dominate the market, but the gameplay hasn't really changed that much in about 15(!) years.

You would probably love the Tower Defense mods for WC3 which play very similary to Dungeon Keeper in many ways.

Company of Heroes is impressive for several reasons, most notably that it requires real tactics. Not micromanagement as seen in most blizzard titles, but actual strategy. You can employ maneuvers like flanking and retreating. You have to position machine guns and snipers. When attacking you have to consider potential cover and the possibility of units getting pinned down.

Though not as base intensive as Dungeon Keeper, the Axis have many defensive options that might work for your style of play.

Total Annihilation and Supreme Commander are two notable exceptions from the regular RTS options. Unfortunately, both seem to be the exact opposite of what you like in RTS gaming as both are rather massive.

I've never liked the Command and Conquer series so I can't recommend any of those titles.

One title that hasn't been mentioned, but looks promising is Rise of Legends. I haven't played it, but its precursors were excellent. All the races are completely different and the base building is supposed to be very innovative.

Finally, look into the Total War series. The most recent is Medieval: Total War . There is lots of building involved, though much of the game is played through the world map. The actual battles are RTS and take place solely on the battlefield.

PS This is a different genre, but have you looked into any base defense mods for FPS games? The Unreal Tournament base games are excellent. There's lots of strategy, vehicles and team work. Also the Battlefield series might interest you.
posted by Telf at 2:55 PM on March 1, 2007

The most strategic game I've played is the Myth series. You are given a set of units like Scottish warriors, Dwarven Mortar teams, and magic units at the start of each level. There is no actual unit production, just pure strategy. The great part is having a small amount of units can beat huge armies with a fair amount of skill in understanding the unit's strengths and weaknesses. Playing as opposite side, the experience is completely different and exciting in multiplayer. It's a bit hard to find, but there are groups still cranking out levels and other add-ons. Bungie made these games between the Marathon and Halo series. They were sold to Take 2 Interactive when Microsoft swooped in.

On the horizon, Bungie is making Halo Wars, which looks pretty awesome.
posted by rabbitsnake at 3:45 PM on March 1, 2007

It sounds like you might like the Stronghold series, by Firefly Studios. You are tasked with building a castle; the walls, defenses, troop garrison, inner buildings, etc. as well as running the castle economy. I have not played it, but I've heard it's pretty fun and you can probably find it in the bargain bin somewhere really cheap.
posted by Caper's Ghost at 6:55 PM on March 1, 2007

Um, DKII isn't a RTS.

The game that you want is Evil Genius- it's exactly like DK1/2 except that the invaders are enemy agents instead of Heros. You are carving a base into your mountainside, crafting traps, building the rooms & devices that your minions require. There is a bit of added strategy in the overworld map, but it's a pretty minimal part of the game.
It has lots of hilarious touches and good voice acting. Plus, you get to take over the world muahahahaaa

I you want an RTS (Dune 2, Warcraft 2 style), then most of the suggestions in the thread are great.


Read the threads I linked above, but I wouldn't read too far if you like what you see.


FWIW, I've played through the game twice and enjoyed it every time.
posted by Four Flavors at 10:23 AM on March 2, 2007

Thanks everyone for the suggestions!

I did have initial questions about DKII being a strict RTS per se, but I wasn't sure what other genre it would actually fit in and I figured if anyone hadn't played DKII at least they would get the general idea from the RTS concept.

What genre do you think it fits in, if you happen to read this?
posted by Phyltre at 4:17 PM on March 2, 2007

Seconding Dawn of War. Mostly mindless, never really frustrating or repetitive and always fun.
posted by datacenter refugee at 9:39 PM on March 2, 2007