Help me Plan my stay in Sin City

February 22, 2007 9:36 AM

[Vegas Filter] Please help me decide where to stay when we go to Sin City!

I'm planning a trip to Vegas for Easter Weekend 2007. We're a group of four guys who have never been to Vegas before. Help me figure out where to stay! I've looked through previous Vegas questions, but found nothing really relevant, but anyway, here's my list of "requirements":

1) We're young (22) and want a young crowd.

2) We're open to staying off the Strip, but we feel like since it's our first time there, we should stay on it.

3) We're total lounge/club/party people. We're not too interested in shows.

4) We don't want something Circus Circus cheap but not Bellagio expensive.

5) Ideally we'd be close to a decent buffet.

6) I'm the only gambler in the group, so if we do gamble, it'll be on the cheap.

Is there anything else I should consider? The other threads are good on what to do, but what other make or break factors should I consider?

Thanks!

posted by unexpected to travel & transportation (35 comments total)

Keep in mind that you're hardly ever in your hotel, so it doesn't really matter where you stay. Every major casino has a buffet, club, lounge, gambling, etc. You'll spend most of your time "casino-hopping" hitting up the various spots around town.

The key is always location - mid-strip if you want easy access to everything.

I always pick based on pool. Flamingo, Mirage, and Mandalay Bay have the best pools. I tend to pick Flamingo or Mirage, because they're both mid-strip and have great pools. Mirage is a little nicer than Flamingo, although the new GO Rooms at the Flamingo are pretty damn sweet.
posted by afx114 at 9:58 AM on February 22, 2007

The strategy that my friends and I used when we went to Vegas was picking the hotel in our budget with the best swimming pool area. You can gamble or go to the clubs at any hotel, but the pool areas are restricted to guests only. We ended up at the MGM Grand and were really happy with it. Studio 54, the main club there, was quite fun.

On preview, what afx114 said.
posted by MsMolly at 10:03 AM on February 22, 2007

I was going to suggest the Mirage...the rooms are nice but not crazy, and it's in a great location. Treasure Island isn't bad either, and it's right next door.

I'm NOT the club-lounge type, but you can't turn around in a hotel without a new Ultra-Lounge popping up. All of the hotels have trendy-clubby lounge type bars now, and the young crowds tend towards places like the Palms and the Hard Rock (Hard Rock is JUST off the strip). But you'll find plenty of stuff in any hotel you stay in or visit.

Nearly all of the buffets are great. You'll have no shortage of food at any time...again, every hotel has many, many restaurants, from the truly great (Bouchon in the Venician) to the buffet.
posted by griffey at 10:04 AM on February 22, 2007

i'd recommend staying around the palms and rio hotels. they are definitely for the younger clubbin' crowd. the rio is known as one of the best, if not THE best buffet in vegas.

to compare hotel prices, i'd recommend something basic like expedia. like a previous poster said, if you're young and on a budget, it really does not matter where you sleep at night bc you are hardly ever in your room. it's just where you happen to pass out at the end of the night.

unless you're a smoker, i'd recommend trying to find a non-smoking hotel room. i'm not a smoker, but unfortunately chose to stay in a smoking room last october. the smell of the neighbors' smoking bothered me a lot more than i thought it would.

have fun and keep your gambling budget on a leash! it's easy to get carried away there. just remember, you are not a professional gambler, and the dealers are. the odds are stacked WAY against you.
posted by fac21 at 10:14 AM on February 22, 2007

The most important thing to consider in Vegas is the lie of proximity.

You'll look at a map or something and think "oh, we'll stay here, it's right across the street from X, and just down this way is Y." But it's a lie. Something across the street is miles away. You'll find yourself wanting to take a cab to the place next door.

I can't tell you how many times I've been in Vegas for business, and I'm supposed to met someone at 3:00, and at 3:30 they call me because they are walking from wherever and they thought they were close, but they are still at Caesars. Everyone always gets stuck at Caesars.

Almost everything on the strip is expensive relative to it's counterpart a block away. Why pay a premium to be on the strip when you are still going to be basically in your hotel or have to take a cab to go someplace else? That doesn't mean skip the strip entirely. Sometimes Paris has good deals, and I like the MGM Grand and TI.

A lot of people go to Vegas and view being in their hotel room at all as a failure. If that sounds like you guys, look for the older place that is next to the nicer casino with clubs that you like.

Also note, Hard Rock thinks it is on the strip. The Stratosphere thinks it is on the strip [and it technically is], but it is actually in outer mongolia.

For what you want look into the Rio [has shuttle to harrah's on the strip] , Palms, Westin [no clubs, but a nice home base for visiting other places] Tuscany Suites [again, no clubs but a good home base] or just book into the cheapest place you can find that is near the strip.
posted by Mozzie at 10:16 AM on February 22, 2007

CheapoVegas is a good source for information about all the hotels.

In case you haven't stumbled upon the information: there are monorails behind the hotels that can take you up and down the strip rather efficiently (of course, you have to walk through the casinos to get to/from them). I didn't find out about them till day 2 of my first stay, and it helped to open up other opportunities once I knew transportation didn't hinge on walking through the crowds of porn flyer people or waiting in traffic in a cab.

I stayed in the Tropicana the first time I went to Vegas. It's an old hotel and it feels like it, but the room was huge and the pool is often hailed as the best in Vegas. (I didn't see anything special about it, but none of the other pools were very special either.) For the price, it was a very worthwhile trade off since we simply had to hop across the street to the MGM Grand to catch the monorail -- I think we paid $60/night (which felt cheap even then) while our other friends/family stayed in a more central location for more than twice that.
posted by Hankins at 10:21 AM on February 22, 2007

What others have said: Vegas itself is best treated as a giant buffet table: you'll take a club from one place, a gaming room from another, a pool from another, etc.

I'd say the Rio or Palms, and budget for lots of $8 cab rides, reflecting Mozzie's point about how going next door means taking a cab, especially if it's the middle of the day and roasting outside. (Walking is more fun at night, though it can be a bit overwhelming to be part of the human traffic.)

The Tropicana's also an option, because it's nicely located if you want to venture out, say, to the Hookah Lounge near UNLV.
posted by holgate at 10:37 AM on February 22, 2007

Rio is pretty great, and I highly recommend it for party purposes (gigantic room, young crowd, reasonable rates; I stayed there during a bachelor party once).

But hey, if you're in Vegas, you may as well stay in style. Depending on when you're going (season, weekdays/weekend), you can often Priceline a room at the Venetian for $99 a night. It's not the cheapest, but I think it's the best deal going. Just Priceline a 5-star Strip property, offer $99, and if it's accepted, it's guaranteed to be the V (it's the only 5-star on the strip Priceline books). Plus, it's right next door to Casino Royale, which is fantastic for cheap gambling (if you play craps, which I don't, I hear they have the best game on the strip).
posted by uncleozzy at 10:47 AM on February 22, 2007

(Oh, Easter weekend ... well, you can probably scratch what I said about the Venetian, or finding anyplace cheap, for that matter. If you want to stay on the strip (which you probably do, for easy access to clubs, casinos, etc.), you will want to consider a sub-prime property like Excalibur, Flamingo, or Aladdin/Planet Hollywood, which are perfectly decent rooms in good locations.)
posted by uncleozzy at 10:55 AM on February 22, 2007

Let me suggest the Rands' Vegas System which I learned about from AskMefi many moons ago.
posted by mmascolino at 11:10 AM on February 22, 2007

Mandalay Bay has great pools. Last time I was there it was populated with Beautiful People, which made it just that much nicer. It made a great way to relax and enjoy the daytime in Vegas.

And what everyone else said about walking vs. cabs et al.
posted by unixrat at 11:27 AM on February 22, 2007

FWIW, I got a dirt-cheap room at the Mandalay Bay a few years ago and was well pleased . . . should be rated highly if you go by the pool criterion.
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 11:30 AM on February 22, 2007

These are all very good tips. Thanks! One question regarding the pool...is there going to be swimming in April?
posted by unexpected at 11:35 AM on February 22, 2007

Having just gotten back from Vegas last month, here's my take: stay as far from the strip as you can. For a place to stay, go to "old Vegas" (where the Freemont Street Experience is) and stay at the Four Queens or the Golden Nugget. They're much less expensive and much nicer. I stayed at the Excalibur, but it just wasn't worth the extra cost. Gambling's cheaper there, too (easier to find $5 blackjack tables. You can get $1 blackjack at the Super 8 a mile or so off the strip). We spent some time at the Rio, and it seemed to be a nice place, but it was VERY crowded all the time. The Sports Kitchen restaurant in the Rio is where you want to go for a pizza at midnight. They do it up right then. New York, New York was also a great, fun place. But, also expensive.

Buffets are plentiful, but you're not going to save a lot of money going to them. The cheapest we found was about $17/person and it sucked. The Bellagio's, however, is well worth the $35/person. Go hungry to that one.

If you're worried about cheap, clubs are going to disappoint you. The best ones have a high cover and/or require you to purchase table service to make it worth your time (table service means "spend $300 on a $10 bottle of wine"). That being said, the hottest young rich ladies were at the really expensive lounges. :) Plenty to look at if you're a single young man at the Hard Rock Casino. My wifey pulled me out of that one pretty quickly. ;-)

As for distances, what the others said is true. Go to Google Maps and center in on one of the big names on the strip. Now, go to satellite view and zoom in. See those tiny specs next to that huge building? Those are cars. I'm not lying when I tell you it can take you 10-15 minutes to walk from one side of one to the other. The Alladin to the Excalibur is about a 40 minute walk. So, my recommendation: rent a car. Parking's cheap as most of the hotels offer it for free (older Vegas places will charge you, but forgo the fee if you get your ticket validated at the cashier in the casino. And that means you swipe it yourself, no one gives you a hard time if you walk in off the street, swipe it, and leave without paying for parking.) Even better, just go valet. That's what we did for the whole trip. Just remember to tip 'em. I always gave a dollar on the way in and one on the way out.

Speaking of dollar tips...make sure you read the reviews at Strip Club List and/or The Ultimate Strip Club List if you plan on visiting. You might decide it's cheaper to head to the brothels in Parump.

It really comes down to this: yes, you can have a good time on the cheap in Vegas. However, without a ton of money, there's quite a lot of options that aren't open to you. These casinos have to pay for those huge monstrosities, you know!
posted by Spoonman at 11:38 AM on February 22, 2007

The Monte Carlo is perfect: reasonable rates and a central location on the strip. This is your first time in Vegas, you definitely want to be on the strip.
posted by Gamblor at 11:42 AM on February 22, 2007

Cab drivers often have free admission tickets to clubs. Make sure to tip them heavily - Las Vegas runs on the tip - and then maybe ask, if they don't offer.
posted by ikkyu2 at 12:00 PM on February 22, 2007

Having just gotten back from Vegas last month, here's my take: stay as far from the strip as you can.

Gah, hell no! The original poster said he was interested in clubs & lounges, and the whole Freemont thing is B-O-R-I-N-G if this is what you're into.

Like several others above, the first thing I thought when I read your list of requirements was "Hard Rock." It's where all the young'uns stay, and that makes for an awesome pool. It's true that you don't have to spend a lot of time at your hotel, but if it has clubs, lounges, and a pool that you like, there's also no rule that you have to stay away from it until 5 am.
posted by rkent at 12:44 PM on February 22, 2007

Last time I was in Vegas, I stayed at the San Remo (which is now the Hooters Casino Hotel). The hotel is located just off the strip behind the Tropicana and across the street from the MGM grand.

I recall that the craps tables there were pretty cheap and the buffet was pretty good, too. The room was decent but we were only there to sleep. However, I haven't stayed there since it became a Hooters hotel.
posted by mamaquita at 1:33 PM on February 22, 2007

1) We're young (22) and want a young crowd.

Find the younger crowds here:
Treasure Island, Mandalay Bay, Hard Rock, Palms, Rio

2) We're open to staying off the Strip, but we feel like since it's our first time there, we should stay on it.

-- Stay on the strip. Everything you are interested is on the strip. Hard rock is at the very end and is kind of an island out there, and is pricey. Ceasar's palace represents the center of the strip, and within a few blocks should be your target area.

3) We're total lounge/club/party people. We're not too interested in shows.

-- Pure at Ceasars, Tabu at MGM, Ghost Bar at the Palms, Social club at Treasure Island, Jet at the Mirage. Every major Casino has at least one if not more "ultra-lounges" they are the new black in Vegas right now. The best club sound is actually not in the casino clubs, but usually at the afterhours events. Ice is off the strip but worth the trip.

4) We don't want something Circus Circus cheap but not Bellagio expensive.

-- I'd recommend Treasure Island. That has the price point that most young folks can afford.

5) Ideally we'd be close to a decent buffet.

-- Buffet's are everywhere in Vegas... but if it's your first time in Sin City...you have to go to the Bellagio Buffet... it's jaw dropping. if you don't like huge crowds, consider a breakfast trip or an early (3-4:30pm) dinner trip.

6) I'm the only gambler in the group, so if we do gamble, it'll be on the cheap.

The cheapest gambling is actually downtown...and might make for a fun day trip...the Golden Horseshoe is legendary.

Excellent cheap gambling can be found at the Casino Royale right in the middle of the strip. Also, affordable gambling can also be found at the Stratosphere. (10x odds craps and single deck blackjack).

Is there anything else I should consider? The other threads are good on what to do, but what other make or break factors should I consider?

- Location of the hotel is far more important than people let on. it's worth the extra money to be right in the middle of the action.

- As far as clubs go... they are beautiful and glamorous, but don't expect the staff, the music, or the crowd to be the same. (I'm still trying to crack the hard candy shell of vegas to find the creamy center of the club scene in vegas)

-- The doormen and bouncers at the clubs can give the Gestapo a run for their money, don't dress down. Dress shoes and stylish club wear are strongly recommended.

-- Sitting space is a premium, if you are in a group of 4, consider getting a table with bottle service if you are camped out in a club for a few hours. They actually make you pay for the privilege of sitting down, but it's worth it if you are in it for the long haul.

Here are a few of my tried and true tips:

1) many hotels have a desk at the airport, and you may be able to check in right after you land.

2) rent a limo from the airport to the hotel. for 20$ more, you can ride out to the hotel in style and not wait in the insane line at the taxicab stand. It's a great way to kick off your stay.

2a) On the way to the hotel, stop at a liquor store OFF the strip and load up. Liquor can be 20%-40% more expensive on the strip.

3) if possible, don't check any luggage and carry everything on. (declare your liquids,etc) it makes navigating the Vegas airport far nicer.

4) club types should check out the empire ballroom for afterhours events. Afterhours is where the real club group is ;)

And lastly (and most highly recommended)

5) If you can get a late flight out of vegas (3-5pm) check out of your hotel at noon. leave your bags at the bell desk, and hit the Hotel spa before you leave. There's nothing like a long soak in the hot tub or sauna, with a massage, before taking on the vegas airport.
posted by djdrue at 1:35 PM on February 22, 2007

Hard Rock. hands down. It's off the strip. There are no kids or old people. Not that there's anything wrong with kids or old people, but I feel no need to subject them the sight of me after 48 straight hours of drinking and blackjack. It has an awesome pool.

The staff is younger than at other hotels, and seems a bit more tolerant of party behavior, as long as you're not being a jackass and/or breaking stuff.

The best thing about the Hard rock is that it's small. And circular. Which is great when you're with a group of people. You can say "meet you downstairs and not have to draw a map. The main bar is directly in the middle of the casino, and you can see it from all vantage points.

The rooms are also nice, pretty basic, more modern/boutique than most other vegas hotels I've seen. If you couldn't tell it's one of my favorite hotels. Vegas or otherwise. They really seem to get a lot of the details right at that place. Eames chairs in the 24 hour restaurant if you're one to notice that sort of thing.

If you're there for more than two days, you might find yourself wanting a little less "vegas" for a few hours. I would suggest the Double Down saloon for drinking, and the V bar at the Venetian for relaxing with a nice cocktail and pretending to be suave.

The Palms is also a good party spot, but I find the lines for the clubs and bars to be a turnoff. There's no need to wait an hour to have fun in Vegas.

As soon as you get there, go see the strip. It's awesome, but you'll probably be really glad you're not staying there.

Also, friendly word of advice, no offense or anything. You're going with a group of 4 guys. It's your first time. don't be "those guys". Be casual. Try to resist the overpowering urge to wear sunglasses indoors. Keep the high fiving to a minimum. Pace yourself!

But my best Vegas advice for first timers is to be friendly, say hello and talk to everybody. Old, young, guys, girls. waitstaff, cabbies. Be that friendly guy who knows everyones name within ten feet of him, and I guarantee you will have a blast. That pretty much works everywhere, but in Vegas it's the key to a REALLY great time.
posted by billyfleetwood at 1:36 PM on February 22, 2007

djdrue... Sounds like you know your Vegas. I agreee, if you are going to stay on the strip, Treasure Island is a good choice.

The spa and limo recommendations are golden...
posted by billyfleetwood at 1:45 PM on February 22, 2007

BTW, you'll have a hard time getting into a club being a group of 4 dudes. Bouncers give priority to the ladies, so try to meet up with some cuties BEFORE going to a club and it may expedite your entrance.
posted by afx114 at 1:58 PM on February 22, 2007

One other major tip:

Taxi drivers get kick backs from venues that they deliver people to. DO NOT ask for advice from the taxi drivers!
posted by djdrue at 1:59 PM on February 22, 2007

Sweet, this is my favorite thread ever.

I think we've narrowed down to Hard Rock, MGM, or Mandalay.

Thanks everyone for the information...and fleetwood...what's wrong with wearing sunglasses indoors?? haha. just kidding.
posted by unexpected at 2:28 PM on February 22, 2007

Stay the hell off of the north end. Avoid Circus Circus like the nasty plague that it is. The Stratosphere is nice, and maybe one day stuff up at that end will be nice, but the last time I was there (few months ago) it was just dag nasty.
* Oh, and avoid the strip clubs. They'll milk you dry. No different than any other big city.
* Prostitution is illegal in Clark County. Be aware of that. Many people don't realize that.
* Avoid the Mexicans that flip cards at you and make noise. They're just escort service cards. Some of those guys get pretty aggressive.

The Hard Rock is nice. Actually, I thought the Hooters hotel was kind of nice too. Clubs? I have heard that pretty much all the "good" clubs have really long lines and getting in can be difficult.

The buffet at the Wynn is fucking amazing. It's like $40 a person, but the food is fantastic.
posted by drstein at 3:34 PM on February 22, 2007

Wherever you end up, do some advance research into transportation options at your property. A lot of the chains own several properties, and sometimes there are weird free shuttles you wouldn't have known about. And the monorail is really convenient if you are going to places along the route. The taxis add up. If you are going to hit a few places in a night you may want to negotiate up front with any random limo driver you can snag.

MGM has a lazy river. My favorite thing ever. As for using th pools in April. At night, maybe not. During the day--yes.

My issue with Hard Rock is that they price themselves as if they were on the strip. It's great and I do love the size of it, but for what they charge they should be on the strip and they just aren't. [Also, if you do stay at the Hard Rock, once you get there don't decide that since you can totally see the strip you can walk there. It's a mirage. After a block or two you'll be flinging yourself in oncoming traffic hoping for a taxi. I'm serious. This happened to people from one of my client groups once. With all my warnings you'll probably get there and walk all over just to prove me wrong :)]
posted by Mozzie at 3:35 PM on February 22, 2007

I don't know of any casino that leaves their pool open in the evening anyway.. they all want you inside losing your money, not outside using their pool.
posted by afx114 at 3:36 PM on February 22, 2007

I agree with billyfleetwood on most points regarding the Hard Rock. I was in LV for a friend's wedding in November, for which they put everyone up at the Stratosphere. After the wedding I stayed in the Hard Rock for an extra night, and the difference was so amazing that I'll cry if I ever have to stay anyplace else in Vegas. But, my experience with posher hotels is limited so take that with a grain of salt. It is off the strip, and it's a bit of a shlep to get to the strip, but nothing really bad. If you're going to tour the strip, you'll be walking a lot farther distances than what's involved in walking from the Hard Rock.

Taxi drivers get kick backs from venues that they deliver people to. DO NOT ask for advice from the taxi drivers!

This is absolutely true, but you can use this knowlege to your advantage. When I was there for the wedding, we had six or seven guys walking around for the bachelor party, and limos were pulling over by the side of the road trying to give us free rides to strip clubs (generally Score's), because they'll get $20-60 per person that they bring in. The flip side of taking that free ride (or any cab ride) is that you'll pay a higher cover charge.
posted by LionIndex at 4:07 PM on February 22, 2007

Go to the Mirage. They have the best pools. The rooms are decent. The decor is tropical. The location is central. The poker rooms are nice.

The second best place, imho, especially if you're looking for off-strip is the Las Vegas Hilton. Better prices, close to the Strip, best sportsbook in Vegas, and great buffet.
posted by phaedon at 4:12 PM on February 22, 2007

[Also, if you do stay at the Hard Rock, once you get there don't decide that since you can totally see the strip you can walk there. It's a mirage. After a block or two you'll be flinging yourself in oncoming traffic hoping for a taxi. I'm serious. This happened to people from one of my client groups once. With all my warnings you'll probably get there and walk all over just to prove me wrong :)]

My little story of having limo drivers pull over to try to give up free rides actually took place while we were walking from the Hard Rock to the Monte Carlo, and we ended up turning them all down. It's not that bad of a walk. It's not short, but it's certainly not a death march.
posted by LionIndex at 4:12 PM on February 22, 2007

Does anyone have any thoughts of the Hard Rock vs. MGM?
posted by unexpected at 4:14 PM on February 22, 2007

I've only stayed at MGM, so I'll give you my POV on that. My friends and I were 24-28 at the time (3 girls, 1 guy), and we found it really enjoyable, but not raucous. Our goals were sunning by the pool, gambling, and checking out a show and a club. The pools were awesome, but no meat market. The gambling was great, and it was cool to be able to walk across the bridge and have access to everything at New York New York. (There was no monorail when we were there, so I don't know what you can access now that it's in place.) We walked to the Aladdin, Treasure Island, and to see the fountains at the Bellagio. The restaurant choices were good, and there were Krispy Kreme donuts across the street at NY NY. Studio 54 was fun. We were mostly just looking for a place to get drunk (and be able to stumble upstairs) and shake some booty. The crowd was young enough that we felt pretty comfortable. I think there's a Coyote Ugly across the street that might be more of a magnet for those in college.

We went to the Fremont St. area for one night and I *hated* it. The gambling was cheaper, but the volume of all the machines in the casinos was turned up to what I felt was an unbearable level of noise. No casino is going to be quiet, but I found the ones on the Strip were quiet enough to at least let me hear myself think.

So my summary answer is, the MGM was awesome for us. (I forgot to mention you can watch them feed the lions, which is pretty cool.) *But* if y'all are the type of guys who are looking for MTV-style hijinx and tanned sorority gals, you might have more fun at the Hard Rock. MGM was young enough that we never felt out of place, but it wasn't any non-stop tequilla-fest either.
posted by MsMolly at 5:11 PM on February 22, 2007

If you want to go loungin / clubin, and don't want to wait in long lines, you either need to: 1) know someone with pull, 2) slip the doorman ALOT of money, or 3) hook up with one of the VIP hosts that you can find on the internet. The only way I got into Ghost Bar / Foundation Room was because my friend was a TV news producer in Vegas. My friends have basically cut the lines at the MGM and Mandalay Bay but going right up to the vip doorman and slipping him a benjamin. But I digress.......The Palms is way overpriced. When I stayed there it felt cheesy in a Vanilla Ice type of way. The Mirage is excellent. Reasonably priced, great location, great pool, and the biggest Bloody Mary's you have ever seen. And believe me you will need one after partying all night. If you want to splurge a little, see if you can't priceline a room at the Venetian.......
posted by jasondigitized at 5:41 PM on February 22, 2007

You want the Mandalay. It'll be pricey but worth it. We stayed there for a bachelor's party. We were sad that it was as expensive as it was, but no one regretted it when we left. The pool is key: you flip up a little flag on your chair and a beautiful gal brings you a drink. Beautiful woman are everywhere - most with a nice lower back tat, piercings and likely as hairless as Britany Spears. The pool is like a beach and has a wave generator. There's also a little river that you can tube around. It has some clubs inside it that aren't that hard to get into if you go early.

The Palms has an outdoor club on top of the building. Hard Rock is for the young and cool but isn't for your first trip. Being off the strip sucks. I'd nix Treasure Island - not young and hip. It's cheesy and has kids running around. Definitely not the North end. The only thing worth seeing is the Stratosphere. The crazy ride that shoots you straight up o the top of it is intense. It's also nice to hang out and have a drink on the rotating top section. Enjoy it! It's fun...
posted by SciGuy at 6:00 PM on February 22, 2007

"I don't know of any casino that leaves their pool open in the evening anyway"

Hooters does! I almost fell in it at 10pm, and it was still open.

They have a bar right next to the pool too.
posted by drstein at 1:47 PM on February 25, 2007