What do you do when your spouse/partner/significant other is just being plain weird?
March 5, 2004 11:51 AM
What do you do when your spouse/partner/significant other is just being plain weird? Or rather, when (s)he's not being overtly bizarre, but is setting off your spider-sense all the damn time? [more inside]
Something is going on with my husband -- I just know it. A lot of overexplaining, weird schedule, and just overall making me very, very uneasy. I'm usually pretty intuitive, so I really sincerely believe that something is up. There's no history of infidelity or anything like that.
So I guess that my question is how to address this. Do I call him on the weirdness? I've tried asking nicely, but it hasn't really gotten me anywhere.
Something is going on with my husband -- I just know it. A lot of overexplaining, weird schedule, and just overall making me very, very uneasy. I'm usually pretty intuitive, so I really sincerely believe that something is up. There's no history of infidelity or anything like that.
So I guess that my question is how to address this. Do I call him on the weirdness? I've tried asking nicely, but it hasn't really gotten me anywhere.
talk. somehow you've got to talk. even if you have to fight to make it happen.
and the last thing i'd want is my partner asking a bunch of strangers about it.
posted by andrew cooke at 12:11 PM on March 5, 2004
and the last thing i'd want is my partner asking a bunch of strangers about it.
posted by andrew cooke at 12:11 PM on March 5, 2004
Agreed. If you don't feel comfortable asking, something's going on with both of you that needs fixing. And if they continue to set off your Spidey sense, either tell Mary Jane to zip it or slip out through the skylight and blow off some steam web-slinging.
posted by yerfatma at 12:16 PM on March 5, 2004
posted by yerfatma at 12:16 PM on March 5, 2004
You know what a stalker is, right? Become one. Seriously, did you trust him before all of the weirdness started and do you have problems trusting people? Maybe it's something he's ashamed of, like drinking or even working out or working on a weird project at work.
We (men) act strangely at times, mainly when the whole "breadwinner" burnout thing hits our shoulders. Snoop/stalk/etc. But be sure not to completely shake his trust in you, if he finds out you're snooping and it's nothing, then it could cause some bad mojo. Trust is a two way street.
posted by mkelley at 12:18 PM on March 5, 2004
We (men) act strangely at times, mainly when the whole "breadwinner" burnout thing hits our shoulders. Snoop/stalk/etc. But be sure not to completely shake his trust in you, if he finds out you're snooping and it's nothing, then it could cause some bad mojo. Trust is a two way street.
posted by mkelley at 12:18 PM on March 5, 2004
Sorry, him and he are interchangeable and removable. I'm a little groggy, so this should apply regardless of sex/religion/creed/etc
posted by mkelley at 12:20 PM on March 5, 2004
posted by mkelley at 12:20 PM on March 5, 2004
Print this thread out and give it to him. But photoshop me out of it first, I don't want to be involved.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 12:21 PM on March 5, 2004
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 12:21 PM on March 5, 2004
Sometimes when people act weird they're often secretly hoping you'll ask them what's up (even though they might not be immediately forthcoming). I know when I look back on some of the incidents in my life, some weird behaviour with a girlfriend on my part has helped to bring things to the surface and thinking about it I realize that it was kind of, sort of, possibly deliberate.
Of course sometimes my wife thinks I'm being weird and it's cos I've got a cold or something at work is winding me up.
Either way I'd rather be asked than not.
posted by dodgygeezer at 12:26 PM on March 5, 2004
Of course sometimes my wife thinks I'm being weird and it's cos I've got a cold or something at work is winding me up.
Either way I'd rather be asked than not.
posted by dodgygeezer at 12:26 PM on March 5, 2004
I vote for confrontation of some kind if you're at the breaking point.
But also give him the full benefit of the doubt if you really do trust him and have no history of infidelity or anything like that. If you really don't think anything super-bad could possibly be going on, you do have the option to just trust him and let it be. Sounds like you're past that, but it is something to consider. Trusting usually requires a leap of faith eventually.
Maybe he's in trouble. Men aren't always great at expressing their feelings when they become troubled, or even sensing them. He might be seeking solitude, burying himself in work, catching a solitary beer here and there, hanging out with a friend you don't like... who knows? Maybe one of his exes showed up in some kind of serious trouble and he's helping her out without subjecting you to the drama.
It could be a lot of things. Trust, and then confront. What really needs to go away is the cloud of confusion, not necessarily the behavior.
posted by scarabic at 12:32 PM on March 5, 2004
But also give him the full benefit of the doubt if you really do trust him and have no history of infidelity or anything like that. If you really don't think anything super-bad could possibly be going on, you do have the option to just trust him and let it be. Sounds like you're past that, but it is something to consider. Trusting usually requires a leap of faith eventually.
Maybe he's in trouble. Men aren't always great at expressing their feelings when they become troubled, or even sensing them. He might be seeking solitude, burying himself in work, catching a solitary beer here and there, hanging out with a friend you don't like... who knows? Maybe one of his exes showed up in some kind of serious trouble and he's helping her out without subjecting you to the drama.
It could be a lot of things. Trust, and then confront. What really needs to go away is the cloud of confusion, not necessarily the behavior.
posted by scarabic at 12:32 PM on March 5, 2004
Wow, poor you, you must be pretty stressed about this to ask here! Sounds yucky.
Well, since you asked, here's my armchair psychology advice:
To be fair to him, sometimes people go through phases in their lives when they don't feel "normal" inside themselves for whatever reason (work, health, aging, whatever), consider that this may be the case here - it may have nothing at all to do with you or any outside party. I also suggest you consider the possibility that some of this may be you - you may be assigning unreasonable significance to things, you may be relating to him strangely and not noticing it and he may be reacting to it, etc. In fairness to him, I think you need to at least consider this before you approach him. I also think you need to do some serious thinking about what you imagine the problem is, and why, because if you secretly have a feeling that the problem is "x", then it's entirely possible that you're fitting the evidence to that conclusion, rather than letting it speak for itself. Finally, before you address this, I think you need to write down a list of the specific things which are bothering you, and do your best to look at them objectively (if you're comfortable, get someone impartial to look at them for you - you don't even have to say that it's about you, just ask them what these facts would imply to them).
If you do approach him, I'd just be very straightforward and non-accusatory: "I have noticed the following things (be specific, vague references to "overexplaining" aren't helpful), they are making me concerned, I want to talk about this, whatever it is". I also agree with the other comments that if you don't feel comfortable asking about this, there's something going on with your relationship which may or may not be related to this issue. I would not stalk or spy on him (beyond reasonable household snoopage), in my opinion, if your trust has been eroded to that level, it's time to pack your bags and get the hell out of Dodge anyway - I would in all likelihood react to a spouse spying on me by leaving, and I would expect the same in return, unless there's legitimate fear that something dangerous is going on. If your relationship is basically good, then this is something you can figure out together, if it's not, then no amount of spying is going to fix it.
I like scarabic's answer.
posted by biscotti at 12:38 PM on March 5, 2004
Well, since you asked, here's my armchair psychology advice:
To be fair to him, sometimes people go through phases in their lives when they don't feel "normal" inside themselves for whatever reason (work, health, aging, whatever), consider that this may be the case here - it may have nothing at all to do with you or any outside party. I also suggest you consider the possibility that some of this may be you - you may be assigning unreasonable significance to things, you may be relating to him strangely and not noticing it and he may be reacting to it, etc. In fairness to him, I think you need to at least consider this before you approach him. I also think you need to do some serious thinking about what you imagine the problem is, and why, because if you secretly have a feeling that the problem is "x", then it's entirely possible that you're fitting the evidence to that conclusion, rather than letting it speak for itself. Finally, before you address this, I think you need to write down a list of the specific things which are bothering you, and do your best to look at them objectively (if you're comfortable, get someone impartial to look at them for you - you don't even have to say that it's about you, just ask them what these facts would imply to them).
If you do approach him, I'd just be very straightforward and non-accusatory: "I have noticed the following things (be specific, vague references to "overexplaining" aren't helpful), they are making me concerned, I want to talk about this, whatever it is". I also agree with the other comments that if you don't feel comfortable asking about this, there's something going on with your relationship which may or may not be related to this issue. I would not stalk or spy on him (beyond reasonable household snoopage), in my opinion, if your trust has been eroded to that level, it's time to pack your bags and get the hell out of Dodge anyway - I would in all likelihood react to a spouse spying on me by leaving, and I would expect the same in return, unless there's legitimate fear that something dangerous is going on. If your relationship is basically good, then this is something you can figure out together, if it's not, then no amount of spying is going to fix it.
I like scarabic's answer.
posted by biscotti at 12:38 PM on March 5, 2004
This goes along with everyone else's comment to talk about it, but I dated someone who never felt comfortable opening up. I have those spidey senses too, so it would end up with me saying "anything wrong?" and her replying "no." Rinse. Repeat. Eventually she would fess up that something was wrong, but by then I was pissed that she wasn't being open with me. So I suggested that if I ask her if something is wrong and she continues to say "no" that I will say "promise?" and if she didn't say something by that time she wasn't "allowed" to bring it up again. It worked to some extent.
Snooping is not the answer.
posted by terrapin at 12:39 PM on March 5, 2004
Snooping is not the answer.
posted by terrapin at 12:39 PM on March 5, 2004
Let me add that the whole "You know what a stalker is, right? Become one. Seriously" reveals a seriously deficient sense of respect for your partner. Straight up inquiries are, IMO, far more likely to get you the answers that you need.
Set aside some time for just the two of you (soon). Unplug the phone, make sure the tv/radio are off and the kids are asleep, and there are no other distractions. The hold his hand, look him in the eye, and let him hear what you're feeling: "honey, you've been acting really strange - are you okay?"
Also, do your best to keep yourself cool if the answers are bad: maybe he got laid off, maybe he was involved in a hit and run accident, maybe he's being blackmailed over some old skeleton he thought he'd successfully buried, maybe he's trying to decide what to do about a crime he discovered, maybe he's flirting with infidelity (past history has almost no bearing on this one, in my experience - most people who cheat once never do so again, but there are lots of first-timers our there). The ugly possibilities, while unlikely, are in fact unlimited.
If you manage to get him to share whatever the problem is, and then start shrieking once he does, all communication is now over. Or at least, that's how I'd respond.
posted by Irontom at 1:00 PM on March 5, 2004
Set aside some time for just the two of you (soon). Unplug the phone, make sure the tv/radio are off and the kids are asleep, and there are no other distractions. The hold his hand, look him in the eye, and let him hear what you're feeling: "honey, you've been acting really strange - are you okay?"
Also, do your best to keep yourself cool if the answers are bad: maybe he got laid off, maybe he was involved in a hit and run accident, maybe he's being blackmailed over some old skeleton he thought he'd successfully buried, maybe he's trying to decide what to do about a crime he discovered, maybe he's flirting with infidelity (past history has almost no bearing on this one, in my experience - most people who cheat once never do so again, but there are lots of first-timers our there). The ugly possibilities, while unlikely, are in fact unlimited.
If you manage to get him to share whatever the problem is, and then start shrieking once he does, all communication is now over. Or at least, that's how I'd respond.
posted by Irontom at 1:00 PM on March 5, 2004
"honey, you've been acting really strange - are you okay?"
I'm all for truth on this one as well, flat out asking in a non-accusatory way when everything else is pretty mellow. I wouldn't preface it with "we HAVE to talk" or anything and I'd try to make sure that you were clearly concerned about him, not trying to ferret out some secret wrongdoing. I would also prepare a bit for the response that nothing is wrong. If he tells you this, will you believe him? Is something wrong for you, with all the weird scheduling and overexplaining? If that is the case, that is also an approproiate way to bring it up:"Your new weird work schedule isn't working for me, what can we do to straighten this out?"
Beyond this, a few things I wouldn't do: I wouldn't talk to all his friends or all your friends before you talk to him [in such situations, something like AskMe is actually safer since you don't involve IRL friends of yours who will be nosey about the outcome], I wouldn't prepare for the worst, I wouldn't set up any "if he says this, I'm going to say that" and I'd try, though I know it's hard, not to blame the guy for anything he hasn't done, or that you don't know he has done. Think to yourself beforehand to what extent it's okay for each of you to keep parts of your own lives private -- whatever the answer is, some couples are more private, some are less so -- and make sure you keep that in mind when you have The Talk. Good luck.
posted by jessamyn at 1:08 PM on March 5, 2004
I'm all for truth on this one as well, flat out asking in a non-accusatory way when everything else is pretty mellow. I wouldn't preface it with "we HAVE to talk" or anything and I'd try to make sure that you were clearly concerned about him, not trying to ferret out some secret wrongdoing. I would also prepare a bit for the response that nothing is wrong. If he tells you this, will you believe him? Is something wrong for you, with all the weird scheduling and overexplaining? If that is the case, that is also an approproiate way to bring it up:"Your new weird work schedule isn't working for me, what can we do to straighten this out?"
Beyond this, a few things I wouldn't do: I wouldn't talk to all his friends or all your friends before you talk to him [in such situations, something like AskMe is actually safer since you don't involve IRL friends of yours who will be nosey about the outcome], I wouldn't prepare for the worst, I wouldn't set up any "if he says this, I'm going to say that" and I'd try, though I know it's hard, not to blame the guy for anything he hasn't done, or that you don't know he has done. Think to yourself beforehand to what extent it's okay for each of you to keep parts of your own lives private -- whatever the answer is, some couples are more private, some are less so -- and make sure you keep that in mind when you have The Talk. Good luck.
posted by jessamyn at 1:08 PM on March 5, 2004
Irontom: Let me also say, that "You know what a stalker is, right? Become one. Seriously" was more of a reflection about the question than with my personal relationship with my wife. My wife and I trust each other and talk constantly, so this would not come into play.
But if I started acting like this, I'd get questioned and if I was full of shit, she'd probably want to check out what was really going on. No bullshit here, but she's my best friend and if she knew something was bunk she'd call me on it....and ditto from me too. But I also know we're not like everyone else. So if you're suspecting trouble, then do some due diligence and find out what's going on.
posted by mkelley at 1:23 PM on March 5, 2004
But if I started acting like this, I'd get questioned and if I was full of shit, she'd probably want to check out what was really going on. No bullshit here, but she's my best friend and if she knew something was bunk she'd call me on it....and ditto from me too. But I also know we're not like everyone else. So if you're suspecting trouble, then do some due diligence and find out what's going on.
posted by mkelley at 1:23 PM on March 5, 2004
You didn't say if you suspected infidelity or if you thought something else was going on.
Is your birthday or anniversary coming up soon? Could your husband be planning some sort of surprise for you?
posted by konolia at 1:52 PM on March 5, 2004
Is your birthday or anniversary coming up soon? Could your husband be planning some sort of surprise for you?
posted by konolia at 1:52 PM on March 5, 2004
LittleMissCranky, I think it's you. Retune your weird-o-meter and stop looking for unnecessary drama. Life isn't television. Move along.
posted by Mo Nickels at 2:14 PM on March 5, 2004
posted by Mo Nickels at 2:14 PM on March 5, 2004
Sorry -- no special events coming up. I wish they were, though.
My first reaction, after dismissing several of these incidents, was to ask him what was going on. He didn't tell me anything, although he did say a couple of things that made me feel even weirder -- nothing specific, just things that he wouldn't normally say.
The root problem here isn't that we don't talk -- historically, we've been very good at communicating with each other. I think that's actually part of what's making me a little crazy here. I know that if it were something like being laid off, feeling weird about life, etc., he wouldn't hesitate to talk to me.
I agree that talking to him about specifics would be the best route to take, but there really aren't any specifics. It's all just little, insignificant things that have become a pretty significant pattern. In several years of marriage, I've never thought this before, so I don't think it's just my weird-o-meter acting up.
I have no idea what might be going on. I guess that my first thought is that he's having an affair, but it just seems so out of character for him that I think that it must be something else.
Thanks for the help. It's great to get some feedback about this from people who aren't going to hold it against me or my husband.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 2:25 PM on March 5, 2004
My first reaction, after dismissing several of these incidents, was to ask him what was going on. He didn't tell me anything, although he did say a couple of things that made me feel even weirder -- nothing specific, just things that he wouldn't normally say.
The root problem here isn't that we don't talk -- historically, we've been very good at communicating with each other. I think that's actually part of what's making me a little crazy here. I know that if it were something like being laid off, feeling weird about life, etc., he wouldn't hesitate to talk to me.
I agree that talking to him about specifics would be the best route to take, but there really aren't any specifics. It's all just little, insignificant things that have become a pretty significant pattern. In several years of marriage, I've never thought this before, so I don't think it's just my weird-o-meter acting up.
I have no idea what might be going on. I guess that my first thought is that he's having an affair, but it just seems so out of character for him that I think that it must be something else.
Thanks for the help. It's great to get some feedback about this from people who aren't going to hold it against me or my husband.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 2:25 PM on March 5, 2004
but there really aren't any specifics. It's all just little, insignificant things that have become a pretty significant pattern.
Does not compute. If there are "little, insignificant things" then there are specifics, you just have to look for them. I'm serious, sit down and write out what is actually bugging you (he's more distant/less affectionate/whatever), and what you are actually feeling about this - if you make yourself put the abstract feelings into concrete form with specific examples of what makes you feel that way, it may well give you a much better idea of what's up.
posted by biscotti at 2:34 PM on March 5, 2004
Does not compute. If there are "little, insignificant things" then there are specifics, you just have to look for them. I'm serious, sit down and write out what is actually bugging you (he's more distant/less affectionate/whatever), and what you are actually feeling about this - if you make yourself put the abstract feelings into concrete form with specific examples of what makes you feel that way, it may well give you a much better idea of what's up.
posted by biscotti at 2:34 PM on March 5, 2004
Hire a private investigator. A friend of mine is one and half of their business is some spouse thinking something is up. Half the time something is.
posted by trbrts at 2:38 PM on March 5, 2004
posted by trbrts at 2:38 PM on March 5, 2004
Yeah, please, if you do approach him, have a list of specific things that are worrying you handy.
I know, as someone who is completely oblivious to how his actions affect individuals, and oblivious to even the most glaring signs that others might be worried, I need more than "Well, you know, you just don't talk much any more". Much better: "The other day, when we were out at the Restaurant having supper, I noticed you didn't talk about anything. You never replied to my questions. Is there anything on your mind you'd like to discuss with me?"
Just my two cents as an unmarried loser. ;-)
posted by shepd at 2:50 PM on March 5, 2004
I know, as someone who is completely oblivious to how his actions affect individuals, and oblivious to even the most glaring signs that others might be worried, I need more than "Well, you know, you just don't talk much any more". Much better: "The other day, when we were out at the Restaurant having supper, I noticed you didn't talk about anything. You never replied to my questions. Is there anything on your mind you'd like to discuss with me?"
Just my two cents as an unmarried loser. ;-)
posted by shepd at 2:50 PM on March 5, 2004
There was a somewhat chilling account posted on the blue a few weeks ago of Rules for Having an Affair, but I see that the original link has been replaced. It was full of tips for how to hide an affair, which turned around become useful tips for detecting an affair. I can't find it through google.
The thing is, if he *is* having an affair, I think it unlikely that he'd just tell you if you ask if anything's wrong. So I don't really agree that the most you can do is ask, really really sincerely, since this may never lead to the right answer. But I agree with others that it could be something else entirely, or maybe nothing.
Cell phone bills are very instructive. Not that you should snoop, but if you have a joint cell account and get them in the mail etc., look at them.
posted by onlyconnect at 3:54 PM on March 5, 2004
The thing is, if he *is* having an affair, I think it unlikely that he'd just tell you if you ask if anything's wrong. So I don't really agree that the most you can do is ask, really really sincerely, since this may never lead to the right answer. But I agree with others that it could be something else entirely, or maybe nothing.
Cell phone bills are very instructive. Not that you should snoop, but if you have a joint cell account and get them in the mail etc., look at them.
posted by onlyconnect at 3:54 PM on March 5, 2004
I would suspect mental illness (i.e. depression) or substance abuse before anything else. Come on, trbrts. Get your mind out of the gutter.
What have we become when our first instinct is to suspect whatever happened yesterday on Jerry Springer?
In all likelihood this relationship needs a therapist, not the Hardy Boys. I wish both of you the best.
posted by PrinceValium at 3:58 PM on March 5, 2004
What have we become when our first instinct is to suspect whatever happened yesterday on Jerry Springer?
In all likelihood this relationship needs a therapist, not the Hardy Boys. I wish both of you the best.
posted by PrinceValium at 3:58 PM on March 5, 2004
It is completely impossible for anyone here to tell you what to do -- that's based entirely on the way your relationship works, your respective roles in it, and what the hell "weird" is. I'm a big believer in feminine intuition, so clearly there's something you should do, but nobody here can tell you what it is.
Having said all that, it's pretty easy to pin down the stuff I think you shouldn't do, because unless your relationship is especially unusual, it could do more harm than good:
Snooping's probably not a good idea. If you have questions, is it better to skulk around like a thief to get the answers, or just ask? Few healthy relationships can tolerate much in the way of cloak-and-dagger action, and there's no better way to blatantly declare your distrust.
Throwing down the gauntlet could also be counterproductive. At the moment, you're the one with the problem -- an uneasy feeling -- and being confrontational or hostile might not be the best way to make it his problem, too, which seems to be what you're after.
Ignoring your intuition seems like a pretty dumb plan, too. That stuff works, although it's notoriously vague. You're being disrespectful of yourself to mutter "pipe down, chickie, nothing to see here" over the objections of your feelings. That could put some wrenches in your marriageworks.
The best actual advice I can offer is to examine your relationship and find the best way to communicate. If I were in your shoes, and I really felt strongly that this required my intervention, it would be a pretty simple "hey, you're keeping a weird schedule/slipping out all the time/whatever and I'm wondering what's up." But that plain-spoken, matter-of-fact approach might be useless to you. The whole thing depends on your common communication styles.
posted by majick at 4:10 PM on March 5, 2004
Having said all that, it's pretty easy to pin down the stuff I think you shouldn't do, because unless your relationship is especially unusual, it could do more harm than good:
Snooping's probably not a good idea. If you have questions, is it better to skulk around like a thief to get the answers, or just ask? Few healthy relationships can tolerate much in the way of cloak-and-dagger action, and there's no better way to blatantly declare your distrust.
Throwing down the gauntlet could also be counterproductive. At the moment, you're the one with the problem -- an uneasy feeling -- and being confrontational or hostile might not be the best way to make it his problem, too, which seems to be what you're after.
Ignoring your intuition seems like a pretty dumb plan, too. That stuff works, although it's notoriously vague. You're being disrespectful of yourself to mutter "pipe down, chickie, nothing to see here" over the objections of your feelings. That could put some wrenches in your marriageworks.
The best actual advice I can offer is to examine your relationship and find the best way to communicate. If I were in your shoes, and I really felt strongly that this required my intervention, it would be a pretty simple "hey, you're keeping a weird schedule/slipping out all the time/whatever and I'm wondering what's up." But that plain-spoken, matter-of-fact approach might be useless to you. The whole thing depends on your common communication styles.
posted by majick at 4:10 PM on March 5, 2004
I think it's you
Worth considering, if *cough* rudely put.
posted by scarabic at 5:08 PM on March 5, 2004
Worth considering, if *cough* rudely put.
posted by scarabic at 5:08 PM on March 5, 2004
I always think something (not infidelity) is up with my sposa whenever she is really busy. Some people (I'm not one of them) get such a tight focus when they are busy that they go into another mode. Also, speaking as a guilty party, he might have bought something that he hasn't told you about and is stuck trying to figure out what to do. This has happened to me and left my wife wondering what the hell was going on.
posted by n9 at 6:41 PM on March 5, 2004
posted by n9 at 6:41 PM on March 5, 2004
When you are ready to confront him, take all the pressure off and make it all about you. "Honey, I'm a little weirded out right now." "I have this bad feeling." "Baby, I'm loosing sleep because I sense there is something wrong." This way he won't get defensive, because you won't be accusing him.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:37 PM on March 5, 2004
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:37 PM on March 5, 2004
Secret Life, I like what you said.
I've had problems with partners more than once, because one of us was planning a surprise for the other, and that caused one to sneak around and the other to get suspicious.
I find it interesting that you didn't mention how long you've been together. Maybe its interesting that I would find that significant. But you know, a marriage is supposed to be a rock, a foundation upon which a person builds their life. This means sometimes one's spouse is "taken for granted" (maybe that should be 'taken for granite'). Is he happy? I become very different when I am happily involved in a project. I am happy but tend to get more distant from my partner as my work consumes my thoughts.
posted by Goofyy at 10:46 PM on March 5, 2004
I've had problems with partners more than once, because one of us was planning a surprise for the other, and that caused one to sneak around and the other to get suspicious.
I find it interesting that you didn't mention how long you've been together. Maybe its interesting that I would find that significant. But you know, a marriage is supposed to be a rock, a foundation upon which a person builds their life. This means sometimes one's spouse is "taken for granted" (maybe that should be 'taken for granite'). Is he happy? I become very different when I am happily involved in a project. I am happy but tend to get more distant from my partner as my work consumes my thoughts.
posted by Goofyy at 10:46 PM on March 5, 2004
Several years of marriage at least shows it's more than a year or two.
posted by jaden at 12:46 AM on March 6, 2004
posted by jaden at 12:46 AM on March 6, 2004
I sympathize with you, LittleMissCranky. What we call intuition, which is probably just a different way of collecting information, can be a pain in the ass because one can almost never give good empirical evidence for what he/she suspects/believes/reacts to. But every time I've ignored my "intuition", I've been sorry for it.
Communication is critical, and the question was how to address the question to him. Since outlining exactly why you feel as you do is probably going to get you nowhere, and bog down the whole process, I would advocate Secret Life of Gravy's approach, directed in this way: "For various reasons over a period of time I have come to believe that there is something seriously wrong and that you may be going through something that you are keeping from me. The reasons why I feel this way are not important, but the point is that I do feel this way, I'm worried all the time, it's scaring me, and the feeling isn't going away. Please talk to me."
Of course you will be asked to justify these feelings somehow, but just don't get trapped into detailing every little thing that feels wrong, because individually they sound ridiculous. Reiterate that it is the aggregation of many small things that has brought on your uneasiness, and that regardless of what has caused it - even it is just coincidence, or your own imagination - you are feeling deeply troubled and need to talk it out.
I can't imagine someone who cares about you being unwilling to discuss things under these circumstance, with no accusations being flung about. What happens after this, of course depends on many things, but you are right - the absolute most important first step is to talk.
posted by taz at 2:08 AM on March 6, 2004
Communication is critical, and the question was how to address the question to him. Since outlining exactly why you feel as you do is probably going to get you nowhere, and bog down the whole process, I would advocate Secret Life of Gravy's approach, directed in this way: "For various reasons over a period of time I have come to believe that there is something seriously wrong and that you may be going through something that you are keeping from me. The reasons why I feel this way are not important, but the point is that I do feel this way, I'm worried all the time, it's scaring me, and the feeling isn't going away. Please talk to me."
Of course you will be asked to justify these feelings somehow, but just don't get trapped into detailing every little thing that feels wrong, because individually they sound ridiculous. Reiterate that it is the aggregation of many small things that has brought on your uneasiness, and that regardless of what has caused it - even it is just coincidence, or your own imagination - you are feeling deeply troubled and need to talk it out.
I can't imagine someone who cares about you being unwilling to discuss things under these circumstance, with no accusations being flung about. What happens after this, of course depends on many things, but you are right - the absolute most important first step is to talk.
posted by taz at 2:08 AM on March 6, 2004
Of all the full-of-shit comments here, this is the fullest:
LittleMissCranky, I think it's you. Retune your weird-o-meter and stop looking for unnecessary drama. Life isn't television. Move along.
posted by Mo Nickels at 2:14 PM PST on March 5
What, are you a charter member of the Cheaters' Coverup Society? You can't possibly think there's no chance her guy is having an affair, so you're just farting 'cause it feels good. Say something helpful or shut up.
For what it's worth, it sounds to me like your husband is having an affair. It could be something else, of course, but based on the information you provide, that sounds like the likeliest answer. As onlyconnect says:
The thing is, if he *is* having an affair, I think it unlikely that he'd just tell you if you ask if anything's wrong. So I don't really agree that the most you can do is ask, really really sincerely, since this may never lead to the right answer.
I've seen a spouse sit there and calmly lie, face to face, until presented with proof of infidelity, at which point there ensued your basic tears, confession, &c. This in a relationship that had historically been characterized by utter honesty. The fact is that infidelity changes people; it turns honest folk into baldfaced liars, bumblers into artful dodgers. I obviously have no idea whether your guy is cheating, but clearly something's going on (trust your intuition), and if he is, asking isn't going to clear it up. There are no easy answers. But I wish you the best of luck and hope it works out without getting you hurt.
posted by languagehat at 7:32 AM on March 6, 2004
LittleMissCranky, I think it's you. Retune your weird-o-meter and stop looking for unnecessary drama. Life isn't television. Move along.
posted by Mo Nickels at 2:14 PM PST on March 5
What, are you a charter member of the Cheaters' Coverup Society? You can't possibly think there's no chance her guy is having an affair, so you're just farting 'cause it feels good. Say something helpful or shut up.
For what it's worth, it sounds to me like your husband is having an affair. It could be something else, of course, but based on the information you provide, that sounds like the likeliest answer. As onlyconnect says:
The thing is, if he *is* having an affair, I think it unlikely that he'd just tell you if you ask if anything's wrong. So I don't really agree that the most you can do is ask, really really sincerely, since this may never lead to the right answer.
I've seen a spouse sit there and calmly lie, face to face, until presented with proof of infidelity, at which point there ensued your basic tears, confession, &c. This in a relationship that had historically been characterized by utter honesty. The fact is that infidelity changes people; it turns honest folk into baldfaced liars, bumblers into artful dodgers. I obviously have no idea whether your guy is cheating, but clearly something's going on (trust your intuition), and if he is, asking isn't going to clear it up. There are no easy answers. But I wish you the best of luck and hope it works out without getting you hurt.
posted by languagehat at 7:32 AM on March 6, 2004
The fact is that infidelity changes people; it turns honest folk into baldfaced liars, bumblers into artful dodgers.
Infidelity has to change people. You are suddenly caught between the desire for intimacy and openess and closeness and the fact that you are in possession of a powerful personal fact that can deeply wound if not destroy the intimacy.
There are other reasons to keep these kinds of secrets, though. I know people who have kept a family secret about a family history of congenital developmental disorders from a potential spouse because they were afraid of rejection. I know people who've kept secrets because they were involved in white collar crime. I know people who've just become horribly depressed and don't want to bring sharing hell into the sharing part of intimacy, but can't keep up a good facade. It's wise to realize infidelity is a possibility. It's wise to realize there can be many others.
posted by weston at 12:41 PM on March 6, 2004
Infidelity has to change people. You are suddenly caught between the desire for intimacy and openess and closeness and the fact that you are in possession of a powerful personal fact that can deeply wound if not destroy the intimacy.
There are other reasons to keep these kinds of secrets, though. I know people who have kept a family secret about a family history of congenital developmental disorders from a potential spouse because they were afraid of rejection. I know people who've kept secrets because they were involved in white collar crime. I know people who've just become horribly depressed and don't want to bring sharing hell into the sharing part of intimacy, but can't keep up a good facade. It's wise to realize infidelity is a possibility. It's wise to realize there can be many others.
posted by weston at 12:41 PM on March 6, 2004
Okay, but here's the thing: if she thinks he's having an affair strongly enough to hire an investigator, then as far as I'm concerned, she should just leave. She doesn't trust him anymore. If she asks and he denies it, and she doesn't believe him so she hires a PI, then the damage is ALREADY done, whether by his refusal to account for his behaviour, or by her refusal to believe his denial, or whatever. I simply don't see the benefit - what do you gain by it? If you find he's not having an affair, you'll just be looking for something else - you don't trust him anymore, and he knows it.
And I do think specifics are important. Many of you are suggesting going to 11 to start off with, and I fail to see how that's helpful, since I'm sure LMC's already considering the possibility), when the fair and reasonable thing to do is sit down and outline what the issue is in the first place. I agree that intuition can be very useful, but without careful soul-searching to ensure that this IS an external problem, it's entirely possible that LMC's risking going off half-cocked or worse (I have known more than one person whose "intuition" told them that their spouse was cheating, when they weren't, whose relationships were ruined by their insistence of belief in the reliability of their magical intuition without any attention whatsoever to their internal emotional state - in one case, the person's self esteem was way down because of various life issues, and she translated that into a message from her intuition about infidelity). Our internal state takes only some guidance from outside, what's going on inside emotionally and psychologically also has a very strong effect - to assume right off the bat that your intuition is correct, without examining your internal state pretty carefully to put things in perspective, is unfair and irresponsible to me, especially if you're going to go bandying about dynamite words that you can't take back like infidelity. You'd better be damn convinced of it before you go accusing someone of infidelity, and frankly, if you believe it strongly enough to do something about it, whether it's true or not, you've already passed the point of no return as far as I'm concerned. But I tend to have rather absolute views of these things (not of infidelity, but of trust).
posted by biscotti at 1:30 PM on March 6, 2004
And I do think specifics are important. Many of you are suggesting going to 11 to start off with, and I fail to see how that's helpful, since I'm sure LMC's already considering the possibility), when the fair and reasonable thing to do is sit down and outline what the issue is in the first place. I agree that intuition can be very useful, but without careful soul-searching to ensure that this IS an external problem, it's entirely possible that LMC's risking going off half-cocked or worse (I have known more than one person whose "intuition" told them that their spouse was cheating, when they weren't, whose relationships were ruined by their insistence of belief in the reliability of their magical intuition without any attention whatsoever to their internal emotional state - in one case, the person's self esteem was way down because of various life issues, and she translated that into a message from her intuition about infidelity). Our internal state takes only some guidance from outside, what's going on inside emotionally and psychologically also has a very strong effect - to assume right off the bat that your intuition is correct, without examining your internal state pretty carefully to put things in perspective, is unfair and irresponsible to me, especially if you're going to go bandying about dynamite words that you can't take back like infidelity. You'd better be damn convinced of it before you go accusing someone of infidelity, and frankly, if you believe it strongly enough to do something about it, whether it's true or not, you've already passed the point of no return as far as I'm concerned. But I tend to have rather absolute views of these things (not of infidelity, but of trust).
posted by biscotti at 1:30 PM on March 6, 2004
I vote for the "I"-centric approach advocated by The Secret Life of Gravy. Try to spell out your frustrations to him in terms of how *you* feel, rather than in conjectures about what *he* is doing or not doing.
In life, the "what" of what happens between people is neither what he said or she said, but a collaborative effort between the two of them. Finding out what is going on is as much a creative process as a discovery process. Let him know that you're in the dark, and that you feel afraid. If he doesn't respond to that, seek professional help for your relationship.
posted by squirrel at 1:43 PM on March 6, 2004
In life, the "what" of what happens between people is neither what he said or she said, but a collaborative effort between the two of them. Finding out what is going on is as much a creative process as a discovery process. Let him know that you're in the dark, and that you feel afraid. If he doesn't respond to that, seek professional help for your relationship.
posted by squirrel at 1:43 PM on March 6, 2004
I second the suggestion to hire a private investigator. It sounds like you've tried the direct communication route, and if that continutes to prove useless, a professional snoop may help, either by discovering the root of his behavior, or, in the best case, providing an objective third party who can tell you with assurance that nothing is, indeed, up.
On preview:
if she thinks he's having an affair strongly enough to hire an investigator, then as far as I'm concerned, she should just leave. She doesn't trust him anymore.
I could not disagree with this more. It's not a matter of trust, it's a matter of peace of mind. It may be distasteful to some, but sometimes that's the way it goes. Also, if things get to a point where legal forces are brought to bear on the marriage - god forbid - it could be mighty useful to have hard evidence in one's possession to make things right.
But, like everyone else said - more talking, first.
posted by majcher at 1:46 PM on March 6, 2004
On preview:
if she thinks he's having an affair strongly enough to hire an investigator, then as far as I'm concerned, she should just leave. She doesn't trust him anymore.
I could not disagree with this more. It's not a matter of trust, it's a matter of peace of mind. It may be distasteful to some, but sometimes that's the way it goes. Also, if things get to a point where legal forces are brought to bear on the marriage - god forbid - it could be mighty useful to have hard evidence in one's possession to make things right.
But, like everyone else said - more talking, first.
posted by majcher at 1:46 PM on March 6, 2004
You can't possibly think there's no chance her guy is having an affair, so you're just farting 'cause it feels good. Say something helpful or shut up.
Baloney. What we have here is "intuition" without facts. There's no information here worth a damn. We don't know *what* they guy's doing because he hasn't told us, nor has LittleMissCranky. What most here have done is assume LittleMissCranky's intuition is right and so have not called her into account. I say, it's a two-party situation: as an objective observer, both parties bear examination.
I don't trust intuition, even my own, because I believe it is merely a failure to properly intellectualize emotions, which would let you know why you are feeling what you are feeling. "Intuition" is a cover for a vague, amorphous, nonsequential mass of thought and emotion.
And I stand by my comment, though, admittedly, it might have been rude. For that, I apologize, and I hope you understand that I mean it.
posted by Mo Nickels at 6:16 PM on March 6, 2004
Baloney. What we have here is "intuition" without facts. There's no information here worth a damn. We don't know *what* they guy's doing because he hasn't told us, nor has LittleMissCranky. What most here have done is assume LittleMissCranky's intuition is right and so have not called her into account. I say, it's a two-party situation: as an objective observer, both parties bear examination.
I don't trust intuition, even my own, because I believe it is merely a failure to properly intellectualize emotions, which would let you know why you are feeling what you are feeling. "Intuition" is a cover for a vague, amorphous, nonsequential mass of thought and emotion.
And I stand by my comment, though, admittedly, it might have been rude. For that, I apologize, and I hope you understand that I mean it.
posted by Mo Nickels at 6:16 PM on March 6, 2004
Intuition is not a "cover" for anything, and it feels distinctly different from both thought and emotion.
If you fear that your spouse is having an affair, that's emotion. It is a ball of dread in the pit of your stomach. It wil stay there, eating at you, until you take action to find out for sure.
If you have reasoned that your spouse is having an affair, that's thought. You have weighed the evidence and reached a conclusion, a conscious process which requires much time.
If you intuit that your spouse is having an affair, there is a click in your head and suddenly dozens of little details you never even noticed before (and would have thought were completely random if you had) are now so obviously a part of a pattern that you can't believe you didn't see it before, and at once the scales fall from your eyes and you know. It is very much a "Eureka!" moment.
Intuition is not vague in the slightest. It's not a mere hunch or a feeling; it is a sudden certainty. And it is almost always right. (It's almost always right because if it wasn't, you long ago learned to stop paying attention to it and it went away. If you still have it, it's because it works.)
I have an excellent example of intuition from my own life, but it's a bit risque, so I will omit it.
posted by kindall at 2:47 AM on March 7, 2004
If you fear that your spouse is having an affair, that's emotion. It is a ball of dread in the pit of your stomach. It wil stay there, eating at you, until you take action to find out for sure.
If you have reasoned that your spouse is having an affair, that's thought. You have weighed the evidence and reached a conclusion, a conscious process which requires much time.
If you intuit that your spouse is having an affair, there is a click in your head and suddenly dozens of little details you never even noticed before (and would have thought were completely random if you had) are now so obviously a part of a pattern that you can't believe you didn't see it before, and at once the scales fall from your eyes and you know. It is very much a "Eureka!" moment.
Intuition is not vague in the slightest. It's not a mere hunch or a feeling; it is a sudden certainty. And it is almost always right. (It's almost always right because if it wasn't, you long ago learned to stop paying attention to it and it went away. If you still have it, it's because it works.)
I have an excellent example of intuition from my own life, but it's a bit risque, so I will omit it.
posted by kindall at 2:47 AM on March 7, 2004
There was a somewhat chilling account posted on the blue a few weeks ago of Rules for Having an Affair, but I see that the original link has been replaced. It was full of tips for how to hide an affair, which turned around become useful tips for detecting an affair. I can't find it through google.
Here's the cache.
posted by dgaicun at 11:21 AM on March 7, 2004
Here's the cache.
posted by dgaicun at 11:21 AM on March 7, 2004
Thanks, dgaicun. Here's an excerpt from that article, which was undoubtedly written by someone more coldblooded than your husband, but fwiw:
Deny, Deny, Deny
Don’t confess. It is never appropriate and only leads to hurt feelings and emotional turmoil. I got really good at denying. I used denial in all aspects of my life. I could look my husband in the eye and flatly refute any accusations. I desperately wanted to protect my affair. Telling my husband that I was in love with someone else, that I was intimate with another, would only dwarf our own martial issues.
Don’t be fooled: Spouses always know something is awry on an instinctual level. But they too live in a perpetual state of denial. They have to make up their own stories in order to survive. Use this to your advantage. My husband was acutely aware that our marriage was dying, and he suggested, yet again, that we go to a marriage counselor. It was the last thing in the world I wanted to do.
Don’t go to counseling if you are having an affair. Steven’s wife was disconnected from her reality as well. One morning, she told him that she’d had a dream in which Steven was telling all their friends that they had a less than perfect marriage and that he was sleeping with someone else. He didn’t bite; he said nothing. Spouses know—you don’t have to tell them.
This might make you paranoid about an affair, and I'm sorry for that, especially because there's no real indication from what you say that that's what's going on. But the excerpt does underscore the point that while asking if something is wrong is the first, best thing to do, it might still leave your fears and concerns unanswered.
One other thing that I would suggest is to be concerned if you express your worries, and your spouse, instead of talking about what he can do to alleviate your concerns, etc., turns things around and insinuates that your fears mean that something is wrong with *you*. I think this can be a classic sign of someone who is lying trying to find the most effective way of hiding the lies by using attacks to make you feel insecure and full of self doubt, though it could also just indicate that something is up with your spouse to make him marginalize his care for your well being.
In any case, I hope your concern turns out to be nothing, and I wish you all the luck in the world.
posted by onlyconnect at 12:02 PM on March 8, 2004
Deny, Deny, Deny
Don’t confess. It is never appropriate and only leads to hurt feelings and emotional turmoil. I got really good at denying. I used denial in all aspects of my life. I could look my husband in the eye and flatly refute any accusations. I desperately wanted to protect my affair. Telling my husband that I was in love with someone else, that I was intimate with another, would only dwarf our own martial issues.
Don’t be fooled: Spouses always know something is awry on an instinctual level. But they too live in a perpetual state of denial. They have to make up their own stories in order to survive. Use this to your advantage. My husband was acutely aware that our marriage was dying, and he suggested, yet again, that we go to a marriage counselor. It was the last thing in the world I wanted to do.
Don’t go to counseling if you are having an affair. Steven’s wife was disconnected from her reality as well. One morning, she told him that she’d had a dream in which Steven was telling all their friends that they had a less than perfect marriage and that he was sleeping with someone else. He didn’t bite; he said nothing. Spouses know—you don’t have to tell them.
This might make you paranoid about an affair, and I'm sorry for that, especially because there's no real indication from what you say that that's what's going on. But the excerpt does underscore the point that while asking if something is wrong is the first, best thing to do, it might still leave your fears and concerns unanswered.
One other thing that I would suggest is to be concerned if you express your worries, and your spouse, instead of talking about what he can do to alleviate your concerns, etc., turns things around and insinuates that your fears mean that something is wrong with *you*. I think this can be a classic sign of someone who is lying trying to find the most effective way of hiding the lies by using attacks to make you feel insecure and full of self doubt, though it could also just indicate that something is up with your spouse to make him marginalize his care for your well being.
In any case, I hope your concern turns out to be nothing, and I wish you all the luck in the world.
posted by onlyconnect at 12:02 PM on March 8, 2004
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by kelrae3 at 12:05 PM on March 5, 2004