Can I make potstickers at home, or am I doomed to produce mere wontons?

January 17, 2007 5:20 PM

I want to make potstickers (a.k.a. "fried dumplings"), those round, doughy, dense, well-stuffed meat dumplings you can buy at American Chinese restaurants. But the recipes that I find, they produce something I only recognize as a wonton soup dumpling — a light, triangular, thin-skinned noodle with only a small ball of meat. Help me, oh filter of filters!

Problem 1: the noodles

The dumpling skins I bought at my local Chinese grocery... well, they might be very close to what you get in China, but I'm looking to re-create a comfort food from my American childhood, and for that they just aren't right. They're far too thin, for starters — like I said, much closer to what I'd call a "wonton." And the texture is wrong too — they're light, sticky and even a little slimy if overcooked, not thick and hearty like I was hoping. What should I be buying instead?

Problem 2: the filling

The filling recipes Google has turned up for me — most recently this one, after Wikipedia suggested that jiaozi might be the true name for what I sought — have produced a light-colored, light-textured, slightly dry filling, not the dark and moist one I was expecting.

Am I barking up the wrong tree entirely? Does "potsticker" not mean to other people what it means to me? Is there a Chinese name for these tasty treats that will enable me to buy the right noodles and Google the right recipes? (Hell, does anyone ever make these things at home? Or are they a purely food-service item?)

posted by nebulawindphone to food & drink (34 comments total)

Are you thinking of Gyoza?
posted by onalark at 5:22 PM on January 17, 2007

onalark's got it. Japanese gyoza is what you seek.
posted by team lowkey at 5:31 PM on January 17, 2007

IIRC, the word for potstickers should be guotie. Looking at your jiaozi link, guotie is indeed referenced.

Gyoza looks like it's just the Japanese name for jiaozi.

Generally when my parents made guotie at home, they either bought frozen premade ones or made the filling and wrappers themselves. It sounds like the wrappers you're buying are likely for wontons.

You may be able to buy the wrappers premade at an Asian grocer, but making them from scratch is possible as well.

For the filling, definitely use soy sauce (note that there are different varieties of soy sauce; try to get one that is sold at an Asian grocer rather than one in the "Foreign Foods" section of your local supermarket), sesame seed oil, and rice vinegar (the very dark kind in Asian stores is more authentic). The exact amounts to mix into your ground meat can be hard to say; experiment a little.

Good luck with your search!
posted by roomwithaview at 5:35 PM on January 17, 2007

As an additional note, I don't think gyoza is what you're looking for. The Wikipedia entry you linked note the differences and judging by that, I'd say you are definitely looking for guotie.
posted by roomwithaview at 5:38 PM on January 17, 2007

And the Korean name for them is "gun man du". I am obsessed with them in all forms.

A friend who lived in Singapore for several years documented her recipe on her blog. You might try that out. She makes everything - including the wrappers - from scratch. (She boils hers, but you could easily fry them instead if you like.)

Me, I gave up on doing it the hard way once a big Asian grocery opened up around the corner. They sell about a dozen different varieties in big bags in the freezer section. I'm still experimenting on the best cooking method (steam, then fry? or fry, then steam?), but at least this way I get to eat them faster.
posted by web-goddess at 5:41 PM on January 17, 2007

Thanks, onalark and team lowkey, but I don't think you're right. I've had gyoza, and while they're very good they're not what I'm looking for. Mainly, they're not doughy or thick-skinned enough.

(Oh dear. This is going to turn into one of those international "Wait, is a biscuit the same as a scone?" conversations, isn't it? Just lemme reiterate for reference — the food I'm looking for is sold in Midwestern Chinese restaurants that cater to white people, the ones with Chinese Zodiac placemats and light-up pictures of all the entrees.)
posted by nebulawindphone at 5:42 PM on January 17, 2007

Round, doughy, and dense? That sounds more like a humbow to me.
posted by sculpin at 5:47 PM on January 17, 2007

Er, no, not that round and doughy — or that large. And definitely not the sort of thing you'd stuff with bbq pork. The filling's definitely ground pork with flecks of some sort of vegetable.

Aww, hell, I'll start looking for a picture.
posted by nebulawindphone at 5:52 PM on January 17, 2007

The vegetable in the filling is probably chopped scallions (green onions). Available in most supermarkets.
posted by roomwithaview at 5:57 PM on January 17, 2007

Okay, this pretty well illustrates what I'm looking for. The skin's thicker than a normal noodle — thick enough to be opaque — but not so thick as to make it a bun. It's, okay, not perfectly round, but not flat and triangular either.

And yeah, I'd believe scallions as the vegetable.
posted by nebulawindphone at 5:58 PM on January 17, 2007

I've never heard of "potstickers", but what you're describing sounds an awful lot like Shanghai Dumplings to me. And lo, I googled for a recipe, and found this one... which also calls them potstickers. Am I on the right track? 'Cause Shanghai Dumplings are awesome.
posted by hot soup girl at 5:59 PM on January 17, 2007 [1 favorite]

Oh yeah, and with that recipe, you just make the dough yourself, with flour and water.
posted by hot soup girl at 6:01 PM on January 17, 2007

There are so many types of dumplings (I think also called dim sum, or yamucha in Japanese). Are you actually looking for the steamed bun variety?? They are round and dense and delicious, and in Japan they are called Nikuman.

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=nikuman+recipe&btnG=Search

Is that it? The only dumplings I've ever had a Chinese restaurant in America are the triangular potstickers (which are like the Japanese Gyoza) like this:

http://chinesefood.about.com/od/potstickers/r/potstickers.htm

But if Nikuman is what you seek, here is a recipe that i found but havent tried...they serve em in the convenience stores in Japan so I've never tried to cook it at home.

http://parenthood.com/recipe_display.html?ID=11271
posted by ejoey at 6:03 PM on January 17, 2007

Nope, not nikuman.
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:07 PM on January 17, 2007

linked for your pleasure..sorry bout that.

Nikuman pictures

Potsticker Recipe

Nikuman Recipe
posted by ejoey at 6:08 PM on January 17, 2007

did u try searching for dim sum, or yamucha images on google? maybe you'll see the dumplings u are lookin for.
posted by ejoey at 6:10 PM on January 17, 2007

There are probably a hundred names for them. In Boston they're known as "Peking Ravioli", because that's what they're called at Joyce Chen's restaurant, and everyone else picked up the same name.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 6:12 PM on January 17, 2007

Some American "chinese" restaurants make dumplings with extremely thick, doughy bodies. But that's not really how they should be done, it's just a convenience (thick skinned dumplings take a lot of abuse and don't fall apart in the steamer).

If you use the store-bought dumpling skins and any decent filling recipe (which should include pork, cabbage, green onions, soy sauce, ginger, and whatever else), you should get good results. Fry them in oil, and after they're browned on one side, toss in a little water and put a lid on the pot (so they're fried, then steamed in quick succession). Make a dipping sauce, roughly half soy sauce and half vinegar, with some red pepper flakes. Eat immediately.

If you REALLY want the thick dumpling shells, I don't see why you couldn't use the recipe you linked, and just make them thick!
posted by jellicle at 6:19 PM on January 17, 2007

Some American "chinese" restaurants make dumplings with extremely thick, doughy bodies. But that's not really how they should be done, it's just a convenience (thick skinned dumplings take a lot of abuse and don't fall apart in the steamer).

Aha! Then that's what I'm looking for! Can anyone tell me how to make dumplings badly? (Yeah, I really want the thick shells — like I said, they're a comfort food from my Midwestern childhood, and knowing they're horribly inauthentic doesn't reduce the craving for 'em.)

If it comes to it, I suppose I can use hand-made dough and just roll it thicker. I was hoping there'd be store-bought wrappers I could use, but I'm up for the adventure if need be.
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:37 PM on January 17, 2007

Okay, this pretty well illustrates what I'm looking for...

Do you just want a supply at home, or is making them yourself important? Because Safeway stocks at least 3 different brands of that tastty treat in the frozen food section. They're $4-5 for a bag of about 25. IIRC, they are marketed as "potstickers". Maybe your local supermarket chain stocks some too.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 6:50 PM on January 17, 2007

jellicle is not correct. The thick-skinned "fried dumpling" one often finds in American places is not a corruption of the thin-skinned gao zi (餃子)/gyoza.

hot soup girl is correct- the "Peking ravioli" type things you're looking for are literally "pot-stick," wo tip (鍋貼).

Here's a google image search for said food (in Chinese). It shows some thin-skinned items and some thicker ones. There are some nice examples of the thick pot stickers here (crispy) and here (steamed but not crispy).

The Wikipedia Chinese dumpling page has a mention of them, too.

My local Chinese supermarket has like 15 varieties of these in the freezer case. Most of them are smaller than the ones in the picture, but they have the same ratio of ground meat to dense dough.
posted by rxrfrx at 7:02 PM on January 17, 2007

Oh, silly. Doing the GIS with simplified characters gives more results, of course.
posted by rxrfrx at 7:04 PM on January 17, 2007

Alternatively, what you're trying to make is also called yu jian bao or pan fried dumplings (which are distinct from jiao tz). These dumplings have thicker skins than regular potstickers (which are made, as I understand, from pan frying jiao tz).

The filling is kind of free-form--anything involving the following ingredients will usually turn out ok: ground pork, chopped chinese cabbage (with the water squeezed out), scallions, ginger, black pepper, sesame oil, soy sauce, and rice vinegar. Usually it's a family recipe but some experimentation will work too.

For the pan fried dumplings, my parents, for the sake of convenience, used American supermarket, refrigerator-case biscuit dough. They rolled out the little circles of dough to make them thinner and slightly larger; put the filling in; wrapped them up, finishing with a twist on top to seal them. You fry them in a little oil, and then add about 1/2 cup of water, putting the lid on, to steam them for a few minutes. Once the water drys off, you fry them just for an additional minute or two to brown the bottom, and then serve immediately.

A good dipping sauce is plain rice vinegar with a dash of sesame oil and lots of finely jullianned ginger.

Best of luck!
posted by scalespace at 7:05 PM on January 17, 2007 [1 favorite]

Potstickers take a bit of practice! The oil has to be pretty hot before you put the dumplings in, but also not too hot or they will burn. Also, there has to be enough oil so that they don't stick toooo much to the pan while steaming. In any case, you'll get why they got dubbed 'potstickers'. High on my comfort food list...
posted by typewriter at 7:50 PM on January 17, 2007

I know exactly the kind of dumplings you're talking about, which seem to be a regional item (haven't had anything like them at Chinese restaurants outside the midwest). This leads me to hypothesize that American Chinese restaurants in the midwest probably bought them ready-made (frozen), possibly from the same regional supplier, and just cooked them to order. Which is a reason you're unlikely to find ready-made wrappers and are best off experimenting with your own. Good luck!
posted by agent99 at 8:57 PM on January 17, 2007

Could it be crispy gau gee? See if this or this are what you're looking for. I think the difference in the size between the big ones and the little ones are in how you fill/fold the wrapper, whether you pinch them in a circle like tortellini or fold them like ravioli.
posted by Charmian at 9:01 PM on January 17, 2007

Thick chewy skins == definitely hand-rolled dough, pan-fried, at least if you want to make them yourself. It's what my family does when we get together with a bunch of friends and have a massive dumpling-making party. I don't know of any suppliers that make thicker skins. Frying is much easier with a nonstick pan, and I think you might get pretty good results with a cast-iron skillet.
posted by casarkos at 9:08 PM on January 17, 2007

Err...roomwithaview's got it right. Guotie literally translated from Mandarin Chinese is "pot stick," thus potsticker. Gyoza is similar, but different (sorry, that's vague, I know). And differing from what jellicle says, many Chinese restaurants *in* Beijing do make potstickers with a pretty thick skin (and they're darn good). That said, the recipe from about.com looks decent enough, though I'd probably substitute the green onions with scallions. Have fun!
posted by edjusted at 9:32 PM on January 17, 2007

Here's a recipe from Jeff Smith:

DOUGH
2.5 cups unsifted flour
0.5 teaspoon salt
1 cup boiling water
1 tablespoon lard, cut up into little pieces

Mix the flour and salt. Add the boiling water and stir with chopsticks. Add the lard. Knead all and let rest on a plastic counter under a bowl for 20 minutes.

PORK FILLING
1 pound lean ground pork, finely chopped
2 tablespoons light soy sauce
2 tablespoons dry sherry
1 teaspoon freshly grated ginger
0.5 teaspoon ground white pepper
1 tablespoon sesame oil
0.5 teaspoon MSG (optional)
Pinch of sugar
1 tablespoon chopped green onion
1 egg white
1 tablespoon cornstarch
1 teaspoon salt
4 tablespoons medium chopped bamboo shoots or water chestnuts (optional)
2 cloves garlic, crushed, plus more to taste
red chili paste, to taste
1 cup finely chopped cabbage, squeezed dry in a potato ricer

Mix all of the ingredients for the filling together, and mix them well.

CONSTRUCTION
Break off a piece of the dough the size of 1 teaspoon. Keep the rest of the dough under the bowl. Roll the dough into a ball and then roll out into a 3-inch circle. You may need extra flour for this. Or, use a tortilla press that has been very lightly oiled with peanut oil on a paper towel. This gets you going and the rest of the rolling is easy.

Place 1 teaspoon of filling in the middle of each dough circle and brush a tiny bit of water on the edge of half of each circle. Seal up into half-moons, being careful to work the air out as you go.

COOKING
Heat a large lidded frying pan and add 2 tablespoons of peanut oil. Place half the dumplings in the pan and lightly brown them, over medium heat, on one side.

Pour in 1 cup of chicken soup stock and put the cover on the pan. Turn up the heat and cook for 5 to 10 minutes. When the liquid has been absorbed, the dumplings are done. Repeat, using the other half of the dumplings.

Do not overcook these as you do not want them to be soggy. Check the pan carefully as they cook so that they are still a bit firm and delicious.

SERVING
Garnish with chopped Chinese parsley, sesame oil, and red pepper oil.
posted by Houstonian at 2:54 AM on January 18, 2007

Thanks for all the help. At this point, I'm pretty sure that rxrfrx's 鍋貼 (guo tie/wo[r] tip*) are what I'm looking for. Between the suggestion of biscuit dough and the recipes with lard — Houstonian's Jeff Smith recipe and a few from Google all have it — I'm starting to wonder if adding fat to the dough is what gives is the "doughy" consistency I want and not the "noodly" consistency I've been getting. I'm 99% sure the storebought wonton wrappers were just a flour-water dough, like fresh pasta.

Looks like I've got some experimenting ahead of me, what with all the recipes suggested. I'll try to test one with fat and one without before the thread closes for good, and maybe we can settle this for posterity.

*Sez here that "guo tie" is the Mandarin pronunciation and "wo tip" the Cantonese for 鍋貼. General Googling turns up "wor tip" as an alternate spelling. I've also run across a few discussions on Chinese or Chinese-American discussion boards where people gloss 鍋貼 as "Shanghai dumplings," which suggests that rxrfrx and hot soup girl really are talking about the same thing.
posted by nebulawindphone at 5:00 AM on January 18, 2007

I could write poems about potstickers, if I could write poems. Try Cook's Illustrated. Their recipe won my taste test, was better than I've had in (Midwest, Chinese) restaurants, and resulted in a freezer-full of awesome.
posted by mimi at 6:16 AM on January 18, 2007

I can second mimi's recommendation about Cook's Illustrated. They recently (this week or last) had the recipe on their TV show, America's Test Kitchen, so the recipe is now free on their website with registration (no expiration).

I watched the episode and they turn out the way you describe: fried dark or golden brown on one side, doughy on the other with a nice meat filling. They prefer store-bought gyoza wrappers to store-bought wonton skins because of texture (they did not make their own skins).
posted by JLobster at 1:24 PM on January 18, 2007

I think Bittman has a recipe for 'em---at any rate, I know I've seen 'em in one of my cookbooks somewhere, and I don't own that many. I'll look when I get home tonight.
posted by librarycat at 1:05 PM on February 23, 2007

Bittman has two different recipes for 'em, even---one in How to Cook Everything (p.34) and one in Best Recipes in the World (p.63)---and both were listed under 'pot stickers' in their respective indexes.

As I recall, y'all've got the White Book, but I can send you the latter recipe if you'd like.
posted by librarycat at 6:03 PM on February 23, 2007