Dealing with an employer that doesn't understand the words "I quit."

October 9, 2006 2:54 PM

Dealing with an employer that doesn't understand the words "I quit."

I currently have 2 jobs. I resigned from one with 2 weeks notice saying that as of October 9th I would no longer be working for them. Yesterday, my soon-to-be former boss says "So you're still going to be available if we need something, right?" I didn't say yes or no, just that I didn't know. I've also received a bunch of emails with things to do from him today. I don't think he gets it and I'm not sure how to handle it. I am friendly with him and do not want to burn any bridges as I need the reference and I am open to working with him again in the future in a different capacity. I do not know why he is doing this. He never made any sort of plea to me to stick around, it's like he assumes I'm not serious about it. Any advice or tactics appreciated.

posted by disaster77 to work & money (21 comments total)

I didn't say yes or no, just that I didn't know.

"Hey, I'm sorry that I created all this confusion with my statements earlier. I've quit. I'm not working here any more. I gave my two weeks notice two weeks ago, so today is my last day. It was a pleasure to work with you, and I'll drop my resume off later if there's any positions you think I'd be suited for."

Seriously, I'm confused. You gave two weeks notice two weeks ago? Or today? You quit but you still want to work there? Sounds like you need to have a talk with your boss.
posted by muddgirl at 2:58 PM on October 9, 2006

I would just say no, that you won't be around. Stand up for yourself and just don't let him walk all over you like that. Do what you can in the two weeks, make it clear if he piles more work on you that your last day is whenever.

Just be assertive.
posted by xmutex at 2:59 PM on October 9, 2006

I didn't say yes or no, just that I didn't know.

Well, there's your issue right there.

Say it with me now: "No. I'm sorry, I can't do that. I don't work for you in that capacity anymore."

Also, IMO, I wouldn't count on being able to work with him in a different capacity. And more to the point, why would you want to?
posted by ottereroticist at 2:59 PM on October 9, 2006

Figure out how long it will take you to do the things he asked, select a consulting rate that makes it worthwhile to do them in your spare time, and then send him a quote and a consulting contract to sign. He'll either sign or he won't. If you've chosen the right consulting rate you win either way, either he'll decide you're too expensive and leave you free to do your new job or he'll pay you $$.
posted by RichardP at 2:59 PM on October 9, 2006 [2 favorites has favorites]

I have been in a situation like this, and I handled it by calling my manager and asking him to discuss my consulting rates, and then I quoted something outrageous (I think I said "$200.00/hour with a 4 hour minimum"). After the first emailed question, I faxed an invoice.

I didn't get paid, but then again, he quit sending me questions too.
posted by stupidcomputernickname at 3:00 PM on October 9, 2006 [3 favorites has favorites]

Sorry, I phrased things poorly. I gave notice 2 weeks ago. I finished up all I said I would do over the weekend. I wasn't wishy washy about it until he asked me if I was still going to be around yesterday.
posted by disaster77 at 3:04 PM on October 9, 2006

My mom's in the same situation. Just say you're otherwise engaged and can't solve their problems/do their work. You don't work there anymore.
posted by IndigoRain at 3:04 PM on October 9, 2006

What stupidcomputernickname said.

I ended a fairly nightmarish contract software job about 9 months ago, and my lead asked for my cell number "just in case."

I told him I'd be happy to do that kind of freelance consulting, and my rates are $100/hr, with a $500 minumum, and suddenly he wasn't interested in my cell number any more.

It's a matter of communicating the fact that you seriously Don't Work There Any More.
posted by Clave at 3:05 PM on October 9, 2006

I'm not sure if I understand that you've actually quit. Saying that you don't know you're going to be around to do more work doesn't sound like you've actually quit. It sounds as if you've decided to decrease your workload. You could say that you've decided to spend your time with other pursuits, and you won't be available to do any work for him anymore. Have you said that you are "open to working with him again in the future in a different capacity"? That conveys a clearer message than "I don't know".
posted by defreckled at 3:05 PM on October 9, 2006

Your former employer is asking you to work for free. If that sounds like a good deal to you, take him up on the offer. If you want to be compensated for your labor, follow the previous advice about making him sign a consulting contract, as he's no longer under any obligation to give you anything.
posted by Gamblor at 3:11 PM on October 9, 2006

And send him a link to this page.
posted by DenOfSizer at 3:16 PM on October 9, 2006 [1 favorite has favorites]

Sounds like the guy is trying to bully you into working for free. I don't think it's a coincidence that he sent you a bunch of emails with tasks to do today (the 1st day you don't work there). He's assumed (correctly) that you won't just say no (since he asked you yesterday and you said "you didn't know" if you'd be around).

I've had this happen so often that I have a rule: any ex-employer/client gets one free question as long as it doesn't take more than 5 minutes (e.g., "where's file X?"). After that, we need to sign a new contract. Otherwise, it's amazing what people will try to get away with (100 pages of documentation for free, on-call consulting, etc.).

For right now, I'd reply to the emails with a note stating that, if he wants long-term consulting, you need to meet in order understand the scope and discuss your rate. Or, if you're not interested, just reply with a polite note that you gave your notice and have other committments, blah blah blah. But do reply: otherwise, rightly or wrongly, he may end up with the impression that you "let him down" and that could make references a bit sticky in the future.
posted by sfkiddo at 3:28 PM on October 9, 2006 [2 favorites has favorites]

Ask him to sit down and talk. Tell him what knd of work you're interested in doing for him, and at what rate, and how available you are/will be. If you actually want to do the work, make it realistic. Not cheap; market rate. Tell him anything good you have to say about working for him. Stand up, offer a hand shake, and wish him the best. If he has questions in the future that take more than a very simple email, i.e., the password to the xyz file on the q server is blaH099Blah, he should pay you.
posted by theora55 at 3:33 PM on October 9, 2006

I think the "price them out of being interested" strategy is a fun one, but it's always seemed kind of smart-ass to me, and I've never been in a situation where it seemed warranted - especially important in a case where you don't want to burn bridges for whatever reason.

I'm interested in this perception of others that he must be expecting you to work for free. The assumption I'd make is that he wants me to keep taking work on a freelance basis, so I'd establish rates with him and get estimates approved for specific work assignments. (Or just say "I don't have room for any freelance work with my schedule.")
posted by caitlinb at 3:38 PM on October 9, 2006

I suspect the "work for free" assumption is coming from the former employer not discussing consulting rates or contracts *before* assigning tasks.

I think I worked for this guy, or his nephew a while back (not really, but you know). Laid off a huge chunk of the company and then spent the next 6 weeks emailing and IMing me for this piece and that bit and do you know where I can find this (the answer to all the above was "on the carefully indexed and documented 10 DVDs I spent my last week at work creating.") The madness didn't stop until he IM'd for advice on how to redo his database and I responded with an IM that said "I suggest you... [please insert $150/hour to continue]." Assy, yes, but it got the point across quite clearly where being polite before had not.

Assuming you are now working for a new company vs a different department in the same company, I would suggest you not consult back. You're starting a new job, you should focus your energy and attention on that, especially important given that your old boss doesn't seem to be respecting boundaries and you sound like you have trouble saying no. Make the break with your former employer clean, professional (as opposed to my snarky approach), and final.

If you're still with the same company but in a new department, then you should discuss it with your new manager. There may be some sort of reciprocal agreement of which you are unaware or your old manager just needs to understand you're not available, which your new manager can help to make clear.
posted by jamaro at 4:36 PM on October 9, 2006

"my soon-to-be former boss says 'So you're still going to be available if we need something, right?' "

What RichardP said.

"Yes, I'm happy to consult for [rate that is at least 2 times your current hourly rate] per hour, with a 3 hour minimum. Please understand that due to my other full-time obligations, I won't be available to do this full-time. For emergency assistance with hard deadlines, or "on-call" availability, my rate will have to be [rate that is at least three times your current hourly]. Would you like to pre-pay for on-call assistance now?"
posted by orthogonality at 5:01 PM on October 9, 2006

Simple. Do not even reply to his emails for 24 hours. Then, tell him you would be more than willing to help with the basics such as where are certain files, etc, but you are concentrating on another job and need to focus on that for the time being. When things calm down and you have the time in a month or so, you will be willing to help. Then I would add we can discuss my consulting rates at that time.

This will give you a break from them to signify that you are making a clean break, they will learn to live without you and if both parties are still interested in a month or so, you can consult. ALso, you protect your good guy rep and a good reference by not being a wise guy overpricing yourself or burn any bridges.

I still answer questions for partners I had 2 years ago when time permits. It has generated loads of good will and is pretty painless if I have the time. You never know when you will need a favor from them.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:46 PM on October 9, 2006 [2 favorites has favorites]

My current employer is notorious for this and so often people give 30 days notice so they can still get paid for all the "catching the new people up to speed". I am giving my two weeks, quoting a consultant fee and billing them in fifteen minute increments everytime my celll phone rings from them. :)
posted by stormygrey at 8:40 PM on October 9, 2006

jeez, you guys are lucky....

I'm getting towards the end of a 12-week notice period that they wouldn't release me from; theoretically this was to allow them to get someone to replace me, which hasn't happened...

In the meantime, I'm not supposed to tell the external clients that I'm leaving and I'm supposed to keep committing to taking on new work...

And I have a responsibility to appear in court should any of my current cases get there, even though I will have left.

I like the approach you guys are taking with the consultancy work after you leave though - that sounds like the best way of getting a clean break....
posted by khites at 2:11 AM on October 10, 2006

What JohnnyGunn said. Don't even answer those emails until a day later. "Sorry, I was busy at my new job and didn't get time to check my personal email. Did you send these to me by accident, out of habit? If not, I can give you an estimate for the consulting fee I would need to charge to do this work, but I can assure you that it will be a higher rate than what you are used to paying me, as I will only be able to do it in my free time. My new job is taking up all my normal full time hours"
posted by antifuse at 2:17 AM on October 10, 2006

My general rule of thumb is if I can answer it in an email without looking anything up it's free. Depending on the client I may go over and above that if they're very nice. Otherwise they get the standard consulting rates/retainer for emergencies spiel. Its kind of smartassy, but it seems to be par for the course in the tech industry at least.

You are a professional, your time is valuable. Don't forget that.
posted by Skorgu at 9:40 AM on October 10, 2006