How should I handle this sticky job situation?
August 22, 2006 7:18 AM Subscribe
How should I handle this sticky job situation? I was offered a job, declined, have worked as a consultant, and now they hired an executive and charged him with tasks I would have been doing had I taken the job.
I was offered a full time position with company X. I declined so I could continue my business, yet we worked out an on-site consulting arrangement where I have been working ## hours per week since May.
I have had a lot of great ideas that management liked, but present employee Y is anti-change and has hindered the implementation of my ideas.
I expressed interest in renegotiating a full time position, as I felt it would give me a chance to actually override employee Y and get much needed items done.
The company just hired a new executive. Part of his job is to deal with my area of work. I like him so far and we seem to be on the same page for the most part. He is trying to get me to come on full time and report directly to him, bypassing employee Y.
This is good, however I have seen several instances already where I could get a lot more done if I had the authority, not the new executive.
Although my business is doing well and I enjoy it, I think taking a job for company x would be exciting and rewarding, as long as I am able to actually get things done.
What can I do to make sure that my ideas get implemented and that when they do, that I get credit for the creativity and implementation? I am okay with sharing it with the executive, but I want to make sure he shares the "glory" with me too.
Or should I just decline their offer and continue running my business, staying away from this potential stick situation? I fear doing so will lose me the steady consulting income from company x though.
Please help and offer some advice!
I was offered a full time position with company X. I declined so I could continue my business, yet we worked out an on-site consulting arrangement where I have been working ## hours per week since May.
I have had a lot of great ideas that management liked, but present employee Y is anti-change and has hindered the implementation of my ideas.
I expressed interest in renegotiating a full time position, as I felt it would give me a chance to actually override employee Y and get much needed items done.
The company just hired a new executive. Part of his job is to deal with my area of work. I like him so far and we seem to be on the same page for the most part. He is trying to get me to come on full time and report directly to him, bypassing employee Y.
This is good, however I have seen several instances already where I could get a lot more done if I had the authority, not the new executive.
Although my business is doing well and I enjoy it, I think taking a job for company x would be exciting and rewarding, as long as I am able to actually get things done.
What can I do to make sure that my ideas get implemented and that when they do, that I get credit for the creativity and implementation? I am okay with sharing it with the executive, but I want to make sure he shares the "glory" with me too.
Or should I just decline their offer and continue running my business, staying away from this potential stick situation? I fear doing so will lose me the steady consulting income from company x though.
Please help and offer some advice!
I'm not sure I understand.
They offered you a job... you didn't want it, because you wanted to keep running your own business...
...so they hired someone else and gave him the areas of duty that you didn't want to come on for... though you continue to consult for him...
...but you don't want him to take the credit for your ideas.
Is that about the gist of it?
If so, you definitely should not go to work for them full-time, as the corporate nature of full-time work for The Man seems to be outside your personal business model.
Not to be flip, but the only real way to guarantee that you get the "glory" for your work is to be on the inside, work your way up to a place of visibility, and then make sure to toot your own horn.
And the only real way to insure that Company X creates an org chart that you like is also to be on the inside.
You seem to want it all: to get credit for all your ideas, plus the authority to execute them however you alone best see fit, to work only with the people you like, and to get all the perks that come with running your own shop. Or, if they would just dump those pesky guys who are in your way, you would come on board as an employee... if you can get credit for all your ideas, plus the authority to execute them however you alone best see fit.
In a perfect world, maybe you can get Company X to give you everything you want, but I wouldn't count on it. I say keep consulting, see where it goes, and build your base of other clients just in case.
But I'm sure you have nothing to worry about -- if your ideas are as fantastic and creative as you say, they'd be foolish to end your contract. Why would they, when a consultant costs a fraction of a full-time employee, and they get to take credit for all your work?
posted by pineapple at 8:22 AM on August 22, 2006
They offered you a job... you didn't want it, because you wanted to keep running your own business...
...so they hired someone else and gave him the areas of duty that you didn't want to come on for... though you continue to consult for him...
...but you don't want him to take the credit for your ideas.
Is that about the gist of it?
If so, you definitely should not go to work for them full-time, as the corporate nature of full-time work for The Man seems to be outside your personal business model.
Not to be flip, but the only real way to guarantee that you get the "glory" for your work is to be on the inside, work your way up to a place of visibility, and then make sure to toot your own horn.
And the only real way to insure that Company X creates an org chart that you like is also to be on the inside.
You seem to want it all: to get credit for all your ideas, plus the authority to execute them however you alone best see fit, to work only with the people you like, and to get all the perks that come with running your own shop. Or, if they would just dump those pesky guys who are in your way, you would come on board as an employee... if you can get credit for all your ideas, plus the authority to execute them however you alone best see fit.
In a perfect world, maybe you can get Company X to give you everything you want, but I wouldn't count on it. I say keep consulting, see where it goes, and build your base of other clients just in case.
But I'm sure you have nothing to worry about -- if your ideas are as fantastic and creative as you say, they'd be foolish to end your contract. Why would they, when a consultant costs a fraction of a full-time employee, and they get to take credit for all your work?
posted by pineapple at 8:22 AM on August 22, 2006
I expressed interest in renegotiating a full time position, as I felt it would give me a chance to actually override employee Y and get much needed items done.
I don't understand this part. You're consulting for these people. You're not their employee and it's not your problem to fix their broken employees. Why would you change your relationship with them to fix their problem?
posted by rdr at 8:22 AM on August 22, 2006
I don't understand this part. You're consulting for these people. You're not their employee and it's not your problem to fix their broken employees. Why would you change your relationship with them to fix their problem?
posted by rdr at 8:22 AM on August 22, 2006
Why would you change your relationship with them to fix their problem?
The company likes his ideas, but this particular employee is interferring. He's that that getting a full time position would put him in a better position to get his idea implemented.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:26 AM on August 22, 2006
The company likes his ideas, but this particular employee is interferring. He's that that getting a full time position would put him in a better position to get his idea implemented.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:26 AM on August 22, 2006
I agree with pineapple's "have your cake and eat it, too" assessment. With a dose of "grow up and welcome to the real world" added in for effect.
What can I do to make sure that my ideas get implemented and that when they do, that I get credit for the creativity and implementation? I am okay with sharing it with the executive, but I want to make sure he shares the "glory" with me too.
This will likely never happen while you're a consultant. It's just the way things go. If you want credit for the company's success, you need to invest more in it than your hourly contract.
posted by mkultra at 8:44 AM on August 22, 2006
What can I do to make sure that my ideas get implemented and that when they do, that I get credit for the creativity and implementation? I am okay with sharing it with the executive, but I want to make sure he shares the "glory" with me too.
This will likely never happen while you're a consultant. It's just the way things go. If you want credit for the company's success, you need to invest more in it than your hourly contract.
posted by mkultra at 8:44 AM on August 22, 2006
I would just be straight with the new exec., and say something like,
"I think it would be great to come and work directly for you doing X Y and Z tasks. It would be helpful, however, to make sure we're on the same page in terms of working styles. How do you prefer to manage your staff when they are working on relatively independent projects? In other words, as a consultant I find I am the most productive when I have the freedom to see a project through from beginning to end. Would you be comfortable with me working in that style?"
Use the conversation to feel him out, and try and get into enough depth that you have an idea about his style of work and ability to adapt. It won't be a blueprint of how things actually go, I doubt, but it may give you the confidence that there's even a chance.
posted by mikel at 9:58 AM on August 22, 2006
"I think it would be great to come and work directly for you doing X Y and Z tasks. It would be helpful, however, to make sure we're on the same page in terms of working styles. How do you prefer to manage your staff when they are working on relatively independent projects? In other words, as a consultant I find I am the most productive when I have the freedom to see a project through from beginning to end. Would you be comfortable with me working in that style?"
Use the conversation to feel him out, and try and get into enough depth that you have an idea about his style of work and ability to adapt. It won't be a blueprint of how things actually go, I doubt, but it may give you the confidence that there's even a chance.
posted by mikel at 9:58 AM on August 22, 2006
I've been on both sides. I'm going to differ from most of the suggestions. I think you could get the project done more effectively if you remain a consultant.
Reasons:
- a trusted consultant is often seen as being more competent than an equivalent employee (even if it ain't true) because they're paying more for the consultant and he/she is expected to be more of an expert. Sad but true.
- you seem to be "all about" this project. It often makes sense, for both parties, to use a consultant on a "project' since they're supposed to be specialists (come in, work miracles, leave), whereas employees are considered generalists
- if you come in as an employee, and even if the project goes your way, you're kinda stuck there now, and if you're like most consultants, the rut will get to you shortly.
If I were you, I would prepare a killer proposal for how your project would benefit the company, developing this in partnership with new exec if he's truly an ally, then getting this proposal in front of the highest exec you can, with new exec's help and support. Assuming that goes well, you should get a sweet contract to implement the project, and you'd have the higher-up's approval, which should cancel out objections from Y.
You may however have slightly damaged your cred as a consultant, if you've already made noises about becoming an employee.
posted by Artful Codger at 10:42 AM on August 22, 2006
Reasons:
- a trusted consultant is often seen as being more competent than an equivalent employee (even if it ain't true) because they're paying more for the consultant and he/she is expected to be more of an expert. Sad but true.
- you seem to be "all about" this project. It often makes sense, for both parties, to use a consultant on a "project' since they're supposed to be specialists (come in, work miracles, leave), whereas employees are considered generalists
- if you come in as an employee, and even if the project goes your way, you're kinda stuck there now, and if you're like most consultants, the rut will get to you shortly.
If I were you, I would prepare a killer proposal for how your project would benefit the company, developing this in partnership with new exec if he's truly an ally, then getting this proposal in front of the highest exec you can, with new exec's help and support. Assuming that goes well, you should get a sweet contract to implement the project, and you'd have the higher-up's approval, which should cancel out objections from Y.
You may however have slightly damaged your cred as a consultant, if you've already made noises about becoming an employee.
posted by Artful Codger at 10:42 AM on August 22, 2006
lbergstr: I trust him as much as I trust anyone in business. He stated that if we have to bring someone else on, I would be lead/supervisor over them and they would report to me, me to him still.
-----------------------
pineapple: They offered me an IT staff position. I turned down to continue web development, took on role as an independent IT consultant for them. They hired executive VP, not the role I would have had. So, that is the gist of it, not what you thought (from your summary).
I have no problem with authority or "The Man" as long as I am given credit where credit is due. See here.
The company already loves me and sees me as great (their words, not just me being up on my ego). He even praised me in front of another exec today. So I am not worried about being able to toot my own horn. I guess my biggest concern is being able to implement my ideas - aka a managerial position instead of a staff level one.
As for contract being cheaper...I am working less than 20 hours a week. I am working at 2x the rate their initial offer (even with full benefits) broke down to with a 40 hour a week schedule. So, I am not cheaper, especially if they brought me in for more hours, which new projects will require.
-----------------------
rdr & Brandon Blatcher: Brandon is right. I have a lot of things I can do to keep my consulting job, but I am not able to implement them right now due to said employee being in the way. So I am not able to carry out my duties properly.
-----------------------
mkultra: Been in the "real world" and am grown up...thanks. Maybe you missed this: "Wisecracks don't help people find answers." As for wanting credit for the company's success...that is not my goal. I want internal credit. I already can credit myself for my company's large success.
-----------------------
mikel: Thanks. I have actually worked with him for several extended periods on minor projects already and we both seem to be on the same page for a lot of things.
-----------------------
Artful Codger: The thing is, there are several MAJOR projects, ranging from hardware, software, network, programming, databases, etc. I have expertise in all of these areas and these projects will all be ongoing.
I hope I have not harmed my cred, but since they have maintained their interest in having me as an employee, with comments like, "We'll get you here full time eventually" after project meetings.
-----------------------
I wanted to respond to those items so people had the answers they may have wanted/needed. As an update, I will know either tomorrow or Friday what their new offer will be. I appreciate the input thus far and am open to any more you may have on how to best negotiate a position out of a consulting contract.
And, if I do get tired...oh well, I have 20+ clients now and plenty of connections to move on back to consulting and running my own business. :-)
posted by criticman at 6:48 PM on August 23, 2006
-----------------------
pineapple: They offered me an IT staff position. I turned down to continue web development, took on role as an independent IT consultant for them. They hired executive VP, not the role I would have had. So, that is the gist of it, not what you thought (from your summary).
I have no problem with authority or "The Man" as long as I am given credit where credit is due. See here.
The company already loves me and sees me as great (their words, not just me being up on my ego). He even praised me in front of another exec today. So I am not worried about being able to toot my own horn. I guess my biggest concern is being able to implement my ideas - aka a managerial position instead of a staff level one.
As for contract being cheaper...I am working less than 20 hours a week. I am working at 2x the rate their initial offer (even with full benefits) broke down to with a 40 hour a week schedule. So, I am not cheaper, especially if they brought me in for more hours, which new projects will require.
-----------------------
rdr & Brandon Blatcher: Brandon is right. I have a lot of things I can do to keep my consulting job, but I am not able to implement them right now due to said employee being in the way. So I am not able to carry out my duties properly.
-----------------------
mkultra: Been in the "real world" and am grown up...thanks. Maybe you missed this: "Wisecracks don't help people find answers." As for wanting credit for the company's success...that is not my goal. I want internal credit. I already can credit myself for my company's large success.
-----------------------
mikel: Thanks. I have actually worked with him for several extended periods on minor projects already and we both seem to be on the same page for a lot of things.
-----------------------
Artful Codger: The thing is, there are several MAJOR projects, ranging from hardware, software, network, programming, databases, etc. I have expertise in all of these areas and these projects will all be ongoing.
I hope I have not harmed my cred, but since they have maintained their interest in having me as an employee, with comments like, "We'll get you here full time eventually" after project meetings.
-----------------------
I wanted to respond to those items so people had the answers they may have wanted/needed. As an update, I will know either tomorrow or Friday what their new offer will be. I appreciate the input thus far and am open to any more you may have on how to best negotiate a position out of a consulting contract.
And, if I do get tired...oh well, I have 20+ clients now and plenty of connections to move on back to consulting and running my own business. :-)
posted by criticman at 6:48 PM on August 23, 2006
criticman: Thanks for the clarification because this statement -- "I have seen several instances already where I could get a lot more done if I had the authority, not the new executive" -- really implied that you expect to have as much authority and visibility as the VP.
I have no problem with authority or "The Man" as long as I am given credit where credit is due. See here.
The article you linked speaks directly to how full-time employees in a corporate environment can address a situation where a supervisor not giving credit harms their chance for growth and advancement in the company. You're a consultant, a contract professional. If you think you have the same right to credit and opportunity for advancement as an employee would, you're missing the whole point of consulting.
Unless it's that you are just being proactive about an issue that you think would spring up if you went on full-time. And still, short of coming right out and addressing it with the VP as part of a hire negotiation (which would be a CLM in my opinion), there's nothing you can do to insure before coming on board that you will receive every drop of recognition you feel you deserve. Especially since you continue to emphasize that they are already totally, like, "criticman + Company X = True Love 4Eva."
As for contract being cheaper...I am working less than 20 hours a week. I am working at 2x the rate their initial offer (even with full benefits) broke down to with a 40 hour a week schedule.
So, you're billing per hour for more right now than you would receive if you went to work for them. And you've got 20 other clients and plenty of business in the pipeline. Is the company so exciting that you'd take the obvious financial hit to go to work for them?
So, I am not cheaper, especially if they brought me in for more hours, which new projects will require.
You're thinking straight salary comparison, which is an error. You have to factor in HR, processing, benefits, training, and the general overhead to bring in a new full-time employee. Hiring a project-based consultant is cheaper than hiring a full-time employee, just like retaining a current employee is cheaper than recruiting and training a new one.
If Brandon Blatcher's original post was right, as you said, then I'm getting one of two messages from you:
1. You're so into Company X and what they do and how you can rock their world, that you want to be with them so much that you don't really want to consult and run your own shop anymore.
2. Or, maybe the situation with all your other clients isn't as rosy as is being suggested. Or else, why would you want to enter a situation where you will take a pay cut, lose your freedom, and have to play office politics, as well as pick up all the general corporate BS like putting cover sheets on your TPS reports?
You asked in your original post whether you should just skip their offer and stay out of a sticky situation... and yet you seem to have your mind made up. Whatever you do, I hope it works out.
posted by pineapple at 7:51 AM on August 24, 2006
I have no problem with authority or "The Man" as long as I am given credit where credit is due. See here.
The article you linked speaks directly to how full-time employees in a corporate environment can address a situation where a supervisor not giving credit harms their chance for growth and advancement in the company. You're a consultant, a contract professional. If you think you have the same right to credit and opportunity for advancement as an employee would, you're missing the whole point of consulting.
Unless it's that you are just being proactive about an issue that you think would spring up if you went on full-time. And still, short of coming right out and addressing it with the VP as part of a hire negotiation (which would be a CLM in my opinion), there's nothing you can do to insure before coming on board that you will receive every drop of recognition you feel you deserve. Especially since you continue to emphasize that they are already totally, like, "criticman + Company X = True Love 4Eva."
As for contract being cheaper...I am working less than 20 hours a week. I am working at 2x the rate their initial offer (even with full benefits) broke down to with a 40 hour a week schedule.
So, you're billing per hour for more right now than you would receive if you went to work for them. And you've got 20 other clients and plenty of business in the pipeline. Is the company so exciting that you'd take the obvious financial hit to go to work for them?
So, I am not cheaper, especially if they brought me in for more hours, which new projects will require.
You're thinking straight salary comparison, which is an error. You have to factor in HR, processing, benefits, training, and the general overhead to bring in a new full-time employee. Hiring a project-based consultant is cheaper than hiring a full-time employee, just like retaining a current employee is cheaper than recruiting and training a new one.
If Brandon Blatcher's original post was right, as you said, then I'm getting one of two messages from you:
1. You're so into Company X and what they do and how you can rock their world, that you want to be with them so much that you don't really want to consult and run your own shop anymore.
2. Or, maybe the situation with all your other clients isn't as rosy as is being suggested. Or else, why would you want to enter a situation where you will take a pay cut, lose your freedom, and have to play office politics, as well as pick up all the general corporate BS like putting cover sheets on your TPS reports?
You asked in your original post whether you should just skip their offer and stay out of a sticky situation... and yet you seem to have your mind made up. Whatever you do, I hope it works out.
posted by pineapple at 7:51 AM on August 24, 2006
criticman + Company x = True Love 4Eva
LOL.
One of the reasons I am considering this is that I have a chronic health issue that prevents me from getting independent coverage. So, what will definately be a pay cut compared to my business also gets me health care. I have exhausted my options and the coverage I CAN get (and have gotten) has bad coverage for non-generic Rx. We're talking $300-400 a month for Rx alone right now! So when you toss that into the mix, a salary + healthcare coverage gets me a lot closer to breaking even with what I am making now (minus health care expenses).
So, Company X is an opportunity for me to get my healthcare squared away, make money doing it, and make more doing my business items on the side. I like the people there a lot and I think it could be fun, rewarding, and educational.
I hope that makes more sense now. And yes, some of my clients are less than rosy right now, but others are amazing (gotta love free food and booze at high class places they own!) and I want to maintain those relationships as best as I can while switching to full time. Maybe it will give me a chance to clean house of the clients giving "issues."
So yeah, if their offer is solid, I will take it and see how it goes. I am young, just engaged, so we can move wherever we need to if this fails and I can always rely on my long term clients to help me restore my business if need be down the line.
Thanks for all of the input...and amusing remarks!
posted by criticman at 7:01 PM on August 24, 2006
LOL.
One of the reasons I am considering this is that I have a chronic health issue that prevents me from getting independent coverage. So, what will definately be a pay cut compared to my business also gets me health care. I have exhausted my options and the coverage I CAN get (and have gotten) has bad coverage for non-generic Rx. We're talking $300-400 a month for Rx alone right now! So when you toss that into the mix, a salary + healthcare coverage gets me a lot closer to breaking even with what I am making now (minus health care expenses).
So, Company X is an opportunity for me to get my healthcare squared away, make money doing it, and make more doing my business items on the side. I like the people there a lot and I think it could be fun, rewarding, and educational.
I hope that makes more sense now. And yes, some of my clients are less than rosy right now, but others are amazing (gotta love free food and booze at high class places they own!) and I want to maintain those relationships as best as I can while switching to full time. Maybe it will give me a chance to clean house of the clients giving "issues."
So yeah, if their offer is solid, I will take it and see how it goes. I am young, just engaged, so we can move wherever we need to if this fails and I can always rely on my long term clients to help me restore my business if need be down the line.
Thanks for all of the input...and amusing remarks!
posted by criticman at 7:01 PM on August 24, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
Alternatively, you could have an informal agreement with the hiring executive in which he'd delegate day-to-day authority for those projects to you. Do you trust him?
posted by lbergstr at 7:27 AM on August 22, 2006