What should I do?
July 11, 2006 7:20 AM Subscribe
How do I go about asking for a letter of recommendation in this situation?
I received my undergraduate degree in the summer of 2004. At that time, I could not pursue graduate school.
My life is changing considerably and it looks likely that I will apply to a couple schools next year, or the year after.
I am confident that I have 2 very good recommendations, but am hunting for the third.
During my last semester of college, I did an "independent" research project with a professor. I basically took data that she had, analyzed it for her, and wrote a 7-8 page paper, including abstract, etc. I received an A.
Unfortunately, she's a bit hard to read (and it's not just me), and a little austere. In short, she scares me a little.
I worked in her lab, cared for her animals, attended the lab meetings, wrote a pretty good paper, and I think she liked me...she's also relatively well known in the field I want to pursue. In some ways she would make a perfect letter of recommendation. But I only worked with her for one semester and I haven't talked to her in over two years.
1. Is it okay to ask for a letter of recommendation in this position?
2. How should I go about it? Drop by the lab? Email her? Try to catch her on the phone. I assume email is best, but what do I say?
3. Even if I don't apply for grad school now, I think it is wise to reconnect with her now before too much more time passes. Am I right?
4. Any general advice?
Thanks...
I received my undergraduate degree in the summer of 2004. At that time, I could not pursue graduate school.
My life is changing considerably and it looks likely that I will apply to a couple schools next year, or the year after.
I am confident that I have 2 very good recommendations, but am hunting for the third.
During my last semester of college, I did an "independent" research project with a professor. I basically took data that she had, analyzed it for her, and wrote a 7-8 page paper, including abstract, etc. I received an A.
Unfortunately, she's a bit hard to read (and it's not just me), and a little austere. In short, she scares me a little.
I worked in her lab, cared for her animals, attended the lab meetings, wrote a pretty good paper, and I think she liked me...she's also relatively well known in the field I want to pursue. In some ways she would make a perfect letter of recommendation. But I only worked with her for one semester and I haven't talked to her in over two years.
1. Is it okay to ask for a letter of recommendation in this position?
2. How should I go about it? Drop by the lab? Email her? Try to catch her on the phone. I assume email is best, but what do I say?
3. Even if I don't apply for grad school now, I think it is wise to reconnect with her now before too much more time passes. Am I right?
4. Any general advice?
Thanks...
1. Yes.
2. Email - it lets her deal with it in her own time. Something like
Dear X.
You may remember me from 2004 - I worked in the lab on Y (provide a bit of detail here).
I hope your research is going well (if you can ask about specific projects you know about this may help). I am thinking about pursuing a research career/grad school myself (mention you enjoyed your experience of research in her lab). Would you be wililng to provide a recommendation for me for College Z? (maybe ask if she has any advice for someone in your situation - academics do like being asked for their opinion)
Yours blah blah
3. Yes.
4. Think about where you are applying and what you want to do. It is worth giving the referee some background about the job/course you are going for so they can tailor it. And it helps give background. It's fairly hard writing a reference for someone you've not seen in 2 years, so the more information and background you can give the better. It's probably best to do this in a follow-up email once she's agreed though. Maybe offer to pop in for a chat.
posted by handee at 7:33 AM on July 11, 2006
2. Email - it lets her deal with it in her own time. Something like
Dear X.
You may remember me from 2004 - I worked in the lab on Y (provide a bit of detail here).
I hope your research is going well (if you can ask about specific projects you know about this may help). I am thinking about pursuing a research career/grad school myself (mention you enjoyed your experience of research in her lab). Would you be wililng to provide a recommendation for me for College Z? (maybe ask if she has any advice for someone in your situation - academics do like being asked for their opinion)
Yours blah blah
3. Yes.
4. Think about where you are applying and what you want to do. It is worth giving the referee some background about the job/course you are going for so they can tailor it. And it helps give background. It's fairly hard writing a reference for someone you've not seen in 2 years, so the more information and background you can give the better. It's probably best to do this in a follow-up email once she's agreed though. Maybe offer to pop in for a chat.
posted by handee at 7:33 AM on July 11, 2006
I agree with the above advice...start off writing an email but I would definitely advocate asking to meet with her in person. She will be much more likely to write a letter of recommendation for someone that she saw face-to-face after 2 years, than some mysterious figure behind a computer screen.
posted by bangitliketmac at 7:42 AM on July 11, 2006
posted by bangitliketmac at 7:42 AM on July 11, 2006
I would definitely recommend writing the recommendation letter yourself and submitting your suggessted draft to her in a modifiable form (As a Word Doc or whatever) so she can change it to her tastes.
This will save her an immense amount of time and will help her remember what your strong points are, since you will have written them into the letter.
Chances are very good that she will not modify the text much if any.
posted by crazyray at 8:25 AM on July 11, 2006
This will save her an immense amount of time and will help her remember what your strong points are, since you will have written them into the letter.
Chances are very good that she will not modify the text much if any.
posted by crazyray at 8:25 AM on July 11, 2006
I'd be super wary about the "write the letter yourself" strategy. That might come off as really presumptuous. The goal of refreshing her memory on what you did and your strong points is really important, though. I would definitely dedicate a significant chunk of your letter talking about what you did in the lab, what you've done since then, and what your goals going forward are. If there are a lot of students moving through her lab, that will help you stand out a lot.
And in general, I'd say go for it. I've had some similar experiences in the past where I've been really anxious to ask for recommendations, or even just reconnecting with people I hadn't talked to in a long time and the last thing we did together didn't end so well. It's always turned out great, though. In my experience, people have always been excited to reconnect, even if I couldn't get a read on them when we were working together.
Good luck!
posted by heresiarch at 8:31 AM on July 11, 2006
And in general, I'd say go for it. I've had some similar experiences in the past where I've been really anxious to ask for recommendations, or even just reconnecting with people I hadn't talked to in a long time and the last thing we did together didn't end so well. It's always turned out great, though. In my experience, people have always been excited to reconnect, even if I couldn't get a read on them when we were working together.
Good luck!
posted by heresiarch at 8:31 AM on July 11, 2006
Do NOT write the letter yourself. It is, as heresiarch says, incredibly presumptuous. If she demurs on the letter writing under the pretext of not enough time or something like that, only then could you offer to send her a prepared text, but I still think it's a bad idea.
Otherwise, it is perfectly reasonable to expect her to respond positively to a requeset for writing you a recommendation. Good luck.
posted by The Michael The at 8:36 AM on July 11, 2006
Otherwise, it is perfectly reasonable to expect her to respond positively to a requeset for writing you a recommendation. Good luck.
posted by The Michael The at 8:36 AM on July 11, 2006
Definitely request the letter, but be sure to ask if she thinks she can write you a strong one. This is a subtle way of saying, "Do you remember me, or are you just going to dash off some generic letter?"
I've had a lot of luck using the form here:
http://www.psichi.org/pubs/articles/article_75.asp. Profs love it because it makes their job easier, and it makes me feel more confident that they're going to include the information I want in the letter.
posted by chickletworks at 9:07 AM on July 11, 2006
I've had a lot of luck using the form here:
http://www.psichi.org/pubs/articles/article_75.asp. Profs love it because it makes their job easier, and it makes me feel more confident that they're going to include the information I want in the letter.
posted by chickletworks at 9:07 AM on July 11, 2006
Clicky http://www.psichi.org/pubs/articles/article_75.asp
posted by hatsix at 9:11 AM on July 11, 2006
posted by hatsix at 9:11 AM on July 11, 2006
I have been through this exact process. I was out of undergrad for five years. I would disagree (as have others) with the suggestion that you write the letter yourself. That may be standard in some fields, but in many cases, a professor is a naturally suspicious and independent-thinking person who would near-instinctively resent such a move.
What I did was to make a very brief statement of who I was so the faculty could remember me. Then I asked if that person felt they were comfortable recommending me. This is brings up the issue of whether a faculty would write a strong recommendation or not, without making it sound like you want a specific recommendation or that you are angling for a certain interpretation of your record.
The "comfort" question can be deflected by the faculty a number of ways, which is actually good, because you don't want a recommendation from someone who is less than committed. A professor can say "well, I don't feel comfortable, because I don't know you that well, perhaps Professor [a] can do it?" or something to that effect if they actually just don't feel like giving you a great recommendation. And again, as you are probably already thinking, you don't want to get someone who gives a lukewarm recommendation.
posted by Slothrop at 9:56 AM on July 11, 2006
What I did was to make a very brief statement of who I was so the faculty could remember me. Then I asked if that person felt they were comfortable recommending me. This is brings up the issue of whether a faculty would write a strong recommendation or not, without making it sound like you want a specific recommendation or that you are angling for a certain interpretation of your record.
The "comfort" question can be deflected by the faculty a number of ways, which is actually good, because you don't want a recommendation from someone who is less than committed. A professor can say "well, I don't feel comfortable, because I don't know you that well, perhaps Professor [a] can do it?" or something to that effect if they actually just don't feel like giving you a great recommendation. And again, as you are probably already thinking, you don't want to get someone who gives a lukewarm recommendation.
posted by Slothrop at 9:56 AM on July 11, 2006
Yes, it's appropriate, and she will probably remember you. The fact that you got an A means that she will probably write you a decent letter, austere or not. Just make sure you give her a cue in the email as to what you did and when, in case it takes her a bit. Meeting with her face to face is also a good idea, because the better she knows you, the better the letter will be.
I would definitely recommend writing the recommendation letter yourself and submitting your suggessted draft to her in a modifiable form (As a Word Doc or whatever) so she can change it to her tastes.
Um, I've never heard of anything like this being even close to appropriate for grad school recommendations. Not only that, it would be far better for the letter to be written by someone who is experienced at writing letters of recommendation, and who has quite possibly read many. Finally, any readers who know her may have read her work and possibly even previous letters of recommendation written by her, and will realize that she did not write it. All around a bad idea.
posted by advil at 11:44 AM on July 11, 2006
I would definitely recommend writing the recommendation letter yourself and submitting your suggessted draft to her in a modifiable form (As a Word Doc or whatever) so she can change it to her tastes.
Um, I've never heard of anything like this being even close to appropriate for grad school recommendations. Not only that, it would be far better for the letter to be written by someone who is experienced at writing letters of recommendation, and who has quite possibly read many. Finally, any readers who know her may have read her work and possibly even previous letters of recommendation written by her, and will realize that she did not write it. All around a bad idea.
posted by advil at 11:44 AM on July 11, 2006
Professor here. Just to clear up some things here. You should not write the letter yourself when asking her for a letter. It is as presumptuous as everyone says. There are some professors (not ones doing their jobs in my opinion) who will ask you to sketch out a letter or write a letter after agreeing to write one for you. These fall in the "lazy bastards" category of letter writers.
You should without a doubt follow chicklet's advice to ask if the professor can write you a strong letter. Use exactly that phrasing. I've heard many bad stories of ruined applications from people who didn't ask this question. I always tell my students to ask it in exactly that way. If a student doesn't ask me in that way and I can't write her a good letter, I volunteer that I could write a mediocre letter, but not everyone volunteers this.
It is definitely a good idea to reconnect. In fact, get the letter now before more time has gone by and get the Career Services people to put it in your file (they'll make a file for you) along with the other two letters. This way, you can ask Career Services to send out your file rather than asking your professors each time you want to apply to a new school or program. If enough time has gone by, ask your professors to update the letters in your file, which will be easier for them to do with your old letters already there.
Finally, I'm actually against the initial contact being email unless it is just to ask for an appointment in which to ask for the letter. We get 10-20 emails a day and someone dropping an email after two years to ask for something important like a letter is not taking it seriously enough. Plus, if your only contact is email, you're liable to get a lousy letter compared to one you take the time to request in person or over the phone. For little business, write your professor an email, but for bigger things, give her the courtesy of a scheduled appointment or a visit during office hours. Even a printed letter would be better than an email.
posted by ontic at 1:55 PM on July 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
You should without a doubt follow chicklet's advice to ask if the professor can write you a strong letter. Use exactly that phrasing. I've heard many bad stories of ruined applications from people who didn't ask this question. I always tell my students to ask it in exactly that way. If a student doesn't ask me in that way and I can't write her a good letter, I volunteer that I could write a mediocre letter, but not everyone volunteers this.
It is definitely a good idea to reconnect. In fact, get the letter now before more time has gone by and get the Career Services people to put it in your file (they'll make a file for you) along with the other two letters. This way, you can ask Career Services to send out your file rather than asking your professors each time you want to apply to a new school or program. If enough time has gone by, ask your professors to update the letters in your file, which will be easier for them to do with your old letters already there.
Finally, I'm actually against the initial contact being email unless it is just to ask for an appointment in which to ask for the letter. We get 10-20 emails a day and someone dropping an email after two years to ask for something important like a letter is not taking it seriously enough. Plus, if your only contact is email, you're liable to get a lousy letter compared to one you take the time to request in person or over the phone. For little business, write your professor an email, but for bigger things, give her the courtesy of a scheduled appointment or a visit during office hours. Even a printed letter would be better than an email.
posted by ontic at 1:55 PM on July 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Oh, and this kind of thing happens all the time. You should be ok.
As a general rule for other people reading this in the future, if you ever think you might go to grad school but are wary of professors "forgetting" you, get them to write letters of support and get them put in a file, most likely in your career center before you leave or shortly after you leave the university. Even if you've been out for a couple years, and think you might go someday, do it anyway. It makes most of the problems and awkwardness go away, the letters are still confidential, and updates are easier than remembering and creating anew.
posted by ontic at 2:05 PM on July 11, 2006
As a general rule for other people reading this in the future, if you ever think you might go to grad school but are wary of professors "forgetting" you, get them to write letters of support and get them put in a file, most likely in your career center before you leave or shortly after you leave the university. Even if you've been out for a couple years, and think you might go someday, do it anyway. It makes most of the problems and awkwardness go away, the letters are still confidential, and updates are easier than remembering and creating anew.
posted by ontic at 2:05 PM on July 11, 2006
Seconding much of what's been said:
- Do reconnect; be polite and positive in your message. You are excited to be pursuing the next step, and it's overwhelmingly likely that she will be excited for you.
- Do be explicit in your email to her about what your interaction with her was; what her evaluation of your work was like; what your own goals are these days.
- Do NOT offer to write a letter for her to sign. It would come off as both arrogant and insulting.
- Do ask for her advice. Maybe she knows things about which university's program would be the best fit for you. Maybe she will say, you need to do some extra math coursework to be ready. Etc. If she is discouraging, take it with a grain of salt, but try to get as much specific info from her as you can (in the course of a longer correspondence).
- If she says "I would be willing to write a letter. You might ask Dr X instead." or something else along these lines, be ready to read between the lines -- this probably means she is unwilling to write a really strong letter. Asking the question about "a strong letter" cuts down on this need to read tea-leaves somewhat. (Although it sounds like she liked your work a lot, so I imagine she would write you a good letter.)
Two more points:
I would say, make your initial contact by email, with a good amount of explicit description of your situation. Ask if she would like to discuss it by phone, and if so, when would be a good time. If you set up a phone appointment, you should prepare a sheet of paper with notes on the kinds of things you would like emphasized in the letter. (Eg, if you're applying for a program that is heavy on quantitative skills, maybe you can remind her of the specific analytic skills you used, etc. If you are saying in your statement of purpose that you are driven by a passion for [whatever], be sure she knows that so she can include some reference to your prolonged interest in [whatever]). Don't dictate what she should say -- only *be ready* if she asks you for suggestions along these lines.
Also, find the paper you wrote for her, and any other finished work you submitted to her and got a good mark on. Be ready to send it as an attachment to your second or third email (after asking whether she would like to see it).
posted by LobsterMitten at 4:18 PM on July 11, 2006
- Do reconnect; be polite and positive in your message. You are excited to be pursuing the next step, and it's overwhelmingly likely that she will be excited for you.
- Do be explicit in your email to her about what your interaction with her was; what her evaluation of your work was like; what your own goals are these days.
- Do NOT offer to write a letter for her to sign. It would come off as both arrogant and insulting.
- Do ask for her advice. Maybe she knows things about which university's program would be the best fit for you. Maybe she will say, you need to do some extra math coursework to be ready. Etc. If she is discouraging, take it with a grain of salt, but try to get as much specific info from her as you can (in the course of a longer correspondence).
- If she says "I would be willing to write a letter. You might ask Dr X instead." or something else along these lines, be ready to read between the lines -- this probably means she is unwilling to write a really strong letter. Asking the question about "a strong letter" cuts down on this need to read tea-leaves somewhat. (Although it sounds like she liked your work a lot, so I imagine she would write you a good letter.)
Two more points:
I would say, make your initial contact by email, with a good amount of explicit description of your situation. Ask if she would like to discuss it by phone, and if so, when would be a good time. If you set up a phone appointment, you should prepare a sheet of paper with notes on the kinds of things you would like emphasized in the letter. (Eg, if you're applying for a program that is heavy on quantitative skills, maybe you can remind her of the specific analytic skills you used, etc. If you are saying in your statement of purpose that you are driven by a passion for [whatever], be sure she knows that so she can include some reference to your prolonged interest in [whatever]). Don't dictate what she should say -- only *be ready* if she asks you for suggestions along these lines.
Also, find the paper you wrote for her, and any other finished work you submitted to her and got a good mark on. Be ready to send it as an attachment to your second or third email (after asking whether she would like to see it).
posted by LobsterMitten at 4:18 PM on July 11, 2006
This is a page that I tell my high school students to look at before asking for a letter of recommendation. It seems to help quite a bit.
posted by nimsey lou at 4:57 PM on July 11, 2006
posted by nimsey lou at 4:57 PM on July 11, 2006
Agreeing with all the advice so far. Definitely contact her now and tell her about your plans and ask if she'll be comfortable writing you a letter of reccomendation when the time comes.
As an additional data point and to show how useful this is: I wrote my previous boss just such a letter after working somewhere else for a year (i.e. telling her I was going to start looking for PhD project and will she write a letter when the time comes). She not only agreed to write the letter but got back to me later that day with the perfect PhD project, exactly the kind of science I want, correct location, right people and fully funded. She asked me to apply then repeatedly told the other supervisors involved how great I am until, three weeks later, they hired me for the studentship. This is the project I am now doing (and, on the whole, loving). Totally didn't see that coming but things really couldn't have worked out any better.
So good luck!
posted by shelleycat at 5:20 PM on July 11, 2006
As an additional data point and to show how useful this is: I wrote my previous boss just such a letter after working somewhere else for a year (i.e. telling her I was going to start looking for PhD project and will she write a letter when the time comes). She not only agreed to write the letter but got back to me later that day with the perfect PhD project, exactly the kind of science I want, correct location, right people and fully funded. She asked me to apply then repeatedly told the other supervisors involved how great I am until, three weeks later, they hired me for the studentship. This is the project I am now doing (and, on the whole, loving). Totally didn't see that coming but things really couldn't have worked out any better.
So good luck!
posted by shelleycat at 5:20 PM on July 11, 2006
I agree with everything ontic said.
posted by Count Ziggurat at 7:34 PM on July 11, 2006
posted by Count Ziggurat at 7:34 PM on July 11, 2006
Contact her in a friendly email, and mention that you will be around the school on a certain date, and ask if it would be ok to drop in and catch up. You can also mention you are thinking about applying for Grad school in the email to prime her a bit. In my experience my old lecturers (in the UK) have always been more than happy to meet for coffee etc when I'm back in the town I studied in. They are generally pretty interested in what I've been up to, and what my future plans are.
posted by MrC at 9:11 PM on July 11, 2006
posted by MrC at 9:11 PM on July 11, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
Hi, it's been awhile. I'm not sure if you knew that I couldn't apply to grad school when I graduated, but it seems like that situation is changing...Working with you on that paper and in your lab was formative for me, and the feedback you gave me at the time seemed to indicate that I was doing a good job...I haven't decided when/if/where exactly to apply, any suggestions?...I would very much like to ask you for a letter of rec when I need one, may I do that?
Use the letter to 1) explain your circumstance briefly 2) remind her of your association and what she thought of you 3) stroke her a little bit 4) explicitly ask her advice and for a letter.
posted by OmieWise at 7:27 AM on July 11, 2006