What has changed since 9/11?
July 8, 2006 12:34 PM Subscribe
What has changed since 9/11?
I'm looking to compile a list of things that have changed in the USA since 9/11. I'm looking for everything from the obvious like the creation of the TSA, Patriot act and the prevalence of surveillance cameras to the more conceptual like people's attitudes towards muslims and a general irrational sense of fear of terrorist attacks.
I'm looking to compile a list of things that have changed in the USA since 9/11. I'm looking for everything from the obvious like the creation of the TSA, Patriot act and the prevalence of surveillance cameras to the more conceptual like people's attitudes towards muslims and a general irrational sense of fear of terrorist attacks.
I don't have an irrational sense of fear of terrorist attacks. What's changed? Our civil liberties have been eroded in the name of homeland security. Are we safer for it?
Not even a little.
There is no stopping, or even mitigating, terrorism. Some group will always want to kill another group in the name of their god, and they will do whatever it takes to circumvent whatever security is in place to prevent such a thing from happening. Unless we all become hermits, we'll be exposed to evils wherever we work or travel. I, for one, make the most of my life every day, terrorism be damned. "9/11" could happen all over again, even with all the current strategies in place to prevent it, and anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. There is no such thing as a secure system, it's all shades of gray. All we have now is a temporary (and weak) fix of an unfixable problem. Well, unfixable for as long as G-dub's in office.
The wholesale erosion of my civil liberties in the name of national security has made my pursuit of happiness and fulfillment (my "American dream", if you will) more difficult. That's what's changed.
posted by Merdryn at 12:57 PM on July 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
Not even a little.
There is no stopping, or even mitigating, terrorism. Some group will always want to kill another group in the name of their god, and they will do whatever it takes to circumvent whatever security is in place to prevent such a thing from happening. Unless we all become hermits, we'll be exposed to evils wherever we work or travel. I, for one, make the most of my life every day, terrorism be damned. "9/11" could happen all over again, even with all the current strategies in place to prevent it, and anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. There is no such thing as a secure system, it's all shades of gray. All we have now is a temporary (and weak) fix of an unfixable problem. Well, unfixable for as long as G-dub's in office.
The wholesale erosion of my civil liberties in the name of national security has made my pursuit of happiness and fulfillment (my "American dream", if you will) more difficult. That's what's changed.
posted by Merdryn at 12:57 PM on July 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Maybe I need to ask this a little differently: what has changed in your lives specifically or what have you observed or perceived as a change?
posted by photoslob at 1:03 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by photoslob at 1:03 PM on July 8, 2006
They put this sign up, just below the old 'Townwatch' sign that says "This is a Homeland Security Community." In Burlington County, NJ, near Medford. Seriously. I feel secure.
posted by fixedgear at 1:04 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by fixedgear at 1:04 PM on July 8, 2006
You can't be seen taking pictures of railroads anymore. People have also gotten in trouble for taking pictures of buildings.
posted by moonshine at 1:12 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by moonshine at 1:12 PM on July 8, 2006
Flying became a bit more of a hassle. At semirandom times, I've needed to take off my shoes at security checkpoints. I have to leave my pocketknife at home if I don't check luggage. The blade from my merkur safety razor was confiscated the last time I flew (luckily, on the way back home instead of out; I like that razor). Also, friends and family can no longer meet me at the arrival gate. The upside of that is the gate area in general is less crowded.
Beyond that, some friends' political opinions took a dive into the profoundly stupid; for the most part, they're recently (in a couple cases somewhat sheepishly) recovering.
That's about it for personal changes. Well, I've also moved to a new city, spent an enjoyable chunk of time not working before starting to work again, and that sort of thing, but 9/11 has nothing to do with that. :)
posted by Drastic at 1:19 PM on July 8, 2006
Beyond that, some friends' political opinions took a dive into the profoundly stupid; for the most part, they're recently (in a couple cases somewhat sheepishly) recovering.
That's about it for personal changes. Well, I've also moved to a new city, spent an enjoyable chunk of time not working before starting to work again, and that sort of thing, but 9/11 has nothing to do with that. :)
posted by Drastic at 1:19 PM on July 8, 2006
International travel has become more of a pain in the ass. Since we've begun to openly scrutinize foreigners entering our country, other countries have begun to reciprocate, sometimes formulating policies that specifically apply to American tourists. Japan now fingerprints all incoming tourists, and Brazil just fingerprints tourists from the US.
You are also no longer able to ship cargo unaccompanied on US air carriers. Not sure whether this is the law or just airline policy.
posted by nadise at 1:23 PM on July 8, 2006
You are also no longer able to ship cargo unaccompanied on US air carriers. Not sure whether this is the law or just airline policy.
posted by nadise at 1:23 PM on July 8, 2006
Passports are going to be required for travel to Canada.
posted by Mitheral at 1:24 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by Mitheral at 1:24 PM on July 8, 2006
A bunch of movies portray a blatantly inaccurate skyline.
posted by unknowncommand at 1:32 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by unknowncommand at 1:32 PM on July 8, 2006
it made certain very unAmerican, and before 9-11 unacceptable policies possible, mostly targeted against individual rights. off the top of my head: imprisonment sine die without precise charges, without indictment and without a trial; torture; secret tribunals; kidnappings; electronic surveillance; fingerprinting of all non-USians who visit the U.S.
politically, it made life impossible for the already-in-trouble liberals, but, more interestingly, it destroyed most of the libertarian, fiscally conservative tenets of the Republican Party (it is now the party of deficit spending, of governmental unchecked power, way beyond old Ronald Reagan "Imperial Presidency").
what's even sadder, it made racism presentable -- just shield it under a nice fog of "war on terror" rhetoric. one example of many? until the immigration protests stirred them from their 9-11 induced chameleon-like behavior and they started ranting against the ungrateful brown peoples, the fascistic John Birch Society's website was 100% "Security - Patriotism - Suuport the Troops". now, their true colors are starting to show again.
oh, what elese? yes, a book in favor of American concentration camps became a best-seller.
posted by matteo at 1:39 PM on July 8, 2006
politically, it made life impossible for the already-in-trouble liberals, but, more interestingly, it destroyed most of the libertarian, fiscally conservative tenets of the Republican Party (it is now the party of deficit spending, of governmental unchecked power, way beyond old Ronald Reagan "Imperial Presidency").
what's even sadder, it made racism presentable -- just shield it under a nice fog of "war on terror" rhetoric. one example of many? until the immigration protests stirred them from their 9-11 induced chameleon-like behavior and they started ranting against the ungrateful brown peoples, the fascistic John Birch Society's website was 100% "Security - Patriotism - Suuport the Troops". now, their true colors are starting to show again.
oh, what elese? yes, a book in favor of American concentration camps became a best-seller.
posted by matteo at 1:39 PM on July 8, 2006
Response by poster: Great answers! Please keep them coming.
posted by photoslob at 2:02 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by photoslob at 2:02 PM on July 8, 2006
Police use of firearms in the UK is deemed by many to be justifiable.
posted by brautigan at 2:12 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by brautigan at 2:12 PM on July 8, 2006
On re-read, the above is obviously not relevant to your question.
posted by brautigan at 2:14 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by brautigan at 2:14 PM on July 8, 2006
The major US air carriers received increased subsidies, generous lump sum payments to keep them afloat, and a bar to lawsuits arising from the 9/11 attack.
posted by KneeDeep at 2:28 PM on July 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by KneeDeep at 2:28 PM on July 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
I find myself looking at the clock at exactly 9:11.
posted by Lillitatiana at 2:43 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by Lillitatiana at 2:43 PM on July 8, 2006
In my life? I feel a lot more outnumbered and outgunned than ever before. Everywhere I look -- bumperstickers, teeshirts, tattoos, billboards, etc. etc. -- I see indications that the majority think people like me should be run out of the country or better yet lynched. And my family's been here for about 300 years on one side and at least 3000 on another.
posted by davy at 2:55 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by davy at 2:55 PM on July 8, 2006
Japan does NOT fingerprint all incoming tourists, nadise. Three of us, all Americans, just got back from there and were all unfingerprinted. Customs and immigration was kind of a breeze, actually.
posted by GaelFC at 3:01 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by GaelFC at 3:01 PM on July 8, 2006
American institutions can now behave in racist ways with no repurcussions. (For example, Canadians with brown skin who try to drive across the border are often held for long periods of time for no reason; this never seems to happen to white or asian folks.)
posted by Kololo at 5:12 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by Kololo at 5:12 PM on July 8, 2006
I didn't have to listen to the "post 9-11 world" BS before September 11.
I think it started like the very next day, though. Too soon for anyone to actually know it would settle out to be a different world. So I've always thought it was total spin.
posted by ruff at 5:12 PM on July 8, 2006
I think it started like the very next day, though. Too soon for anyone to actually know it would settle out to be a different world. So I've always thought it was total spin.
posted by ruff at 5:12 PM on July 8, 2006
what has changed in your lives specifically or what have you observed or perceived as a change?
I have noticed an exponential increase in petty tyranny. I'm talking about store doormen who think they have police powers. It seems that anyone who has some kind of "authority" now feels empowered to order others about. I have spoken sharply to several of these; my favorite message is, "You're not a cop - try to remember that."
posted by Kirth Gerson at 5:29 PM on July 8, 2006
I have noticed an exponential increase in petty tyranny. I'm talking about store doormen who think they have police powers. It seems that anyone who has some kind of "authority" now feels empowered to order others about. I have spoken sharply to several of these; my favorite message is, "You're not a cop - try to remember that."
posted by Kirth Gerson at 5:29 PM on July 8, 2006
I feel like news tickers underneath the news became more prevalent, as well.
posted by Sticherbeast at 5:43 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by Sticherbeast at 5:43 PM on July 8, 2006
I had to provide my driver's license the other day while getting preapproved for a mortgage. As per the Patriot act, the lender is required to verify your identity so that they can make sure you are not a terrorist. Or something.
I wasn't expecting it, and was really, really pissed off...yet I capitulated. Now I am just pissed off at myself for playing that game.
posted by cabingirl at 6:17 PM on July 8, 2006
I wasn't expecting it, and was really, really pissed off...yet I capitulated. Now I am just pissed off at myself for playing that game.
posted by cabingirl at 6:17 PM on July 8, 2006
My husband used to work in the Trade Center. He doesn't work there anymore. He lost his job. We had to move. I keep his old IDs from Tower One & Tower Two in my wallet.
My friend, who is Muslim, who told me the Jews blew up the towers and anyway, the towers being blown up was nothing compared to the damage in Palestine (she's from Bangladesh, has never been to Palestine) is not my friend anymore.
I don't fly anymore. Not because I'm afraid of flying - I've flown many, many thousands of miles - but because I won't put up with the crap at the airport.
On the news, they tell us to be prepared for a major holocaust of some sort - all of the time. ARE YOU PREPARED? There are little handouts at the Post Office. They also tell us they have no intention of helping us. Isn't that one of the few legitimate reasons for Big Government?
As for terrorism - it has always existed in some form. There has always been a threat from somewhere. I mostly don't care.
People I used to respect seem deeply stupid to me. I told them if they elected Bush, our country would be destroyed. They did it anyway. Then they did it again.
The country is polarized, the economy is going to tank soon, we're killing our soldiers, as well as random Iraqis, with no plan to get out, no plan of any sort. Bush has used that act of terrorism as a reason to retreat into mindless religiosity. Our science is being trampled in the mud. I hate Christians (I AM Christian, at least nominally). I don't see any way to repair the damage.
The Chinese are overtaking us technologically. They're very focused, and pseudo-religion is not their motivating factor.
As a woman, I'm deeply disturbed by the sexist trends in this country. I've told my daughter to consider living elsewhere. My family has been here for darned near 400 years. My country has betrayed me.
Everything is not a bad answer.
posted by clarkstonian at 6:23 PM on July 8, 2006 [2 favorites]
My friend, who is Muslim, who told me the Jews blew up the towers and anyway, the towers being blown up was nothing compared to the damage in Palestine (she's from Bangladesh, has never been to Palestine) is not my friend anymore.
I don't fly anymore. Not because I'm afraid of flying - I've flown many, many thousands of miles - but because I won't put up with the crap at the airport.
On the news, they tell us to be prepared for a major holocaust of some sort - all of the time. ARE YOU PREPARED? There are little handouts at the Post Office. They also tell us they have no intention of helping us. Isn't that one of the few legitimate reasons for Big Government?
As for terrorism - it has always existed in some form. There has always been a threat from somewhere. I mostly don't care.
People I used to respect seem deeply stupid to me. I told them if they elected Bush, our country would be destroyed. They did it anyway. Then they did it again.
The country is polarized, the economy is going to tank soon, we're killing our soldiers, as well as random Iraqis, with no plan to get out, no plan of any sort. Bush has used that act of terrorism as a reason to retreat into mindless religiosity. Our science is being trampled in the mud. I hate Christians (I AM Christian, at least nominally). I don't see any way to repair the damage.
The Chinese are overtaking us technologically. They're very focused, and pseudo-religion is not their motivating factor.
As a woman, I'm deeply disturbed by the sexist trends in this country. I've told my daughter to consider living elsewhere. My family has been here for darned near 400 years. My country has betrayed me.
Everything is not a bad answer.
posted by clarkstonian at 6:23 PM on July 8, 2006 [2 favorites]
Job searching, especially in (but not limited to) transportation fields, has become more difficult for people who have taken time away from traditional employment (self-employment, illness, raising a family, slacking) as it is now demanded that every period of your life be accounted for and every aspect of your background delineated for thorough investigation.
While not directly related to 9/11 by anyone involved, it beggars belief to think that the SCOTUS ruling that all people must provide ID to police officers upon demand in any situation would have happened otherwise.
The movement and investment of large sums of money is more heavily scrutinized than any time before, lest anyone fund terror activities.
On a personal level, I have been amazed, appalled and totally disarmed by the number of people who are completely unfazed by the pageants of security theater (like being denied the ability to enter a building because their driver's license has expired) or about issues such as telecoms freely giving away customer info to gov't spy agencies, under the "well, I feel safer!" or "if you don't have anything to hide then why do you care?" arguments.
posted by Dreama at 6:37 PM on July 8, 2006
While not directly related to 9/11 by anyone involved, it beggars belief to think that the SCOTUS ruling that all people must provide ID to police officers upon demand in any situation would have happened otherwise.
The movement and investment of large sums of money is more heavily scrutinized than any time before, lest anyone fund terror activities.
On a personal level, I have been amazed, appalled and totally disarmed by the number of people who are completely unfazed by the pageants of security theater (like being denied the ability to enter a building because their driver's license has expired) or about issues such as telecoms freely giving away customer info to gov't spy agencies, under the "well, I feel safer!" or "if you don't have anything to hide then why do you care?" arguments.
posted by Dreama at 6:37 PM on July 8, 2006
Japan does NOT fingerprint all incoming tourists ...
Unfortunately, it is in the works.
posted by o0o0o at 6:48 PM on July 8, 2006
Unfortunately, it is in the works.
posted by o0o0o at 6:48 PM on July 8, 2006
So many things changed, that it would be hard to list them all. But on a personal level, I think these few examples stuck with me the most:
1) Inability to practice my religion or be around lots of other Jews without a constant low-level reminder that people would like to kill us, even if I would rather ignore that fact
Every synagogue I have visited since 9/11, in several states (New York [both in NYC and outside of it], Florida, California) has had heavily increased security. That means armed guards (usually off-duty cops), metal detectors, and/or concrete truck bomb barriers. That means lines to get into the building that will pass by a security checkpoint, whether going to shul for the High Holidays or my cousin's Bat Mitzvah or a friend's wedding. Same goes for many Jewishy institutions (charities and non-profits, even social clubs with heavily Jewish membership, etc.). Sometimes they disguise those concrete barriers as big concrete planters full of trees and flowers. Sometimes the security guards are discreet, until you see them check under the cars parked outside for bombs. I have also noticed security has been tightened in buildings and gated communities where the population is heavily Jewish, such as the community where my grandparents live in south Florida.
2) Matter-of-fact contigency planning for mass casualty attacks
2a) planning by schools:
My two young cousins were students at my old middle school and high school in the north Bronx. It's a private school, and most of the students live in the city (primarily Manhattan), with a small percentage living in Westchester County or New Jersey. On 9/11, with the travel to and from Manhattan shut down, the mothers of the small Westchester County community all took the initiative to drive down to school, pick up as many kids as they could load into their SUV's, and take them back to Westchester for the night to stay with them, since they could not return to their own homes. Within the next few months, every kid at school had to have a signed permission slip on file listing three families they were allowed to stay with, each of whom had to live outside of NYC, in case a nuke/bio/radiological attack on the city prevented them from returning home. (Or, more obliquely, in case that attack killed all of their family.) This is from a school that does not require permission slips to go the zoo or overnight trips, just to put it into comparison.
2b) planning by businesses:
Businesses changed too - when I worked at IBM in Manhattan, we practiced evacuation drills all the time, we kept food and bottled water in our desks in case we had to shelter in place. When I worked at Disney, every floor had multiple emergency bags in the Xerox rooms full of serious first aid equipment, and multiple team leaders on the staff to secure areas and account for team members in case of emergency. At NBC/Universal, after October, 2001, every computer had an emergency icon installed in the taskbar that an employee can click to instantly report a bomb threat or other emergency, and wearing your security badge at all times in a visible location became mandatory. In almost all businesses, there are now cameras everywhere.
2c) planning by individuals:
Those copious amounts of food and water I have stored in my house aren't just in case of an inevitable California earthquake, y'know. Being stuck in a grocery store in Manhattan for over an hour on the morning of 9/11 and watching what ensued as otherwise stuffy and well-heeled Upper East Siders scrambled for supplies left a rather indelible mark on my brain. (Also, watching banks close and ATM's get totally cleaned out between 10 AM and 1 PM on that day.) The relevance of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs quickly became a reality, not an abstract. I know the experience made many people and families, not just me, change their views on emergency food storage, gun ownership, and the like. I'm sure those effects trickled upwards to people's broader political views, too.
3) Effect on the arts
I think a nice long essay could be written about the effect of 9/11 and America's changed role in the world on the arts. And I don't mean the effect of going to war in Iraq, although plenty has been written on that, or perfromed with an obvious eye towards commentary on it. (Examples: Shakespeare in the Park revivals of Henry IV parts 1 and 2, with Hal portrayed as overly-pointed stand-in for Dubya). I mean examining the much broader psychological effect of 9/11 and the war on terrorism, not just that one theatre of war, polarizing though it may be. One element would be the rise in status and prevalence (and amazing blockbuster success) of superhero TV and movies in the past ~6 years, and what they say about us as a culture. Examples: Spiderman 1 & 2 as a metaphor for not wanting to exercise power, and the tragic results that can follow, or later Joss Whedon works for that matter, or the undercurrent of group paranoia against a sub-group in the X-Men movies, or most of season 2 of Battlestar Galactica, etc. Or how the rise of (and fear of) radical Islam has caused the media to heavily self-censor itself, i.e. newspapers and the Mohammed cartoons, or Comedy Central vis-a-vis South Park, or moviegoer vs. movie executive sensitivities about "Flight 93" or Oliver Stone's upcoming film. Or Broadway, for that matter, which was most directly impacted by 9/11 in the upswing in theatre security and serious downswing in ticket sales that followed 9/11, to the point that Broadway stars were doing PSA commercials practically begging ticketgoers to return. Poor "Urinetown" had the bad timing to have its opening night scheduled for 9/11 (though it got moved); if you've seen the show, I don't need to tell you why its material was such a gut-blow to watch.
Anyway, watching the arts either try to honestly digest the changes in our culture, or constantly do heavy-handed meta-commentary on it, has been interesting.
posted by Asparagirl at 6:55 PM on July 8, 2006
1) Inability to practice my religion or be around lots of other Jews without a constant low-level reminder that people would like to kill us, even if I would rather ignore that fact
Every synagogue I have visited since 9/11, in several states (New York [both in NYC and outside of it], Florida, California) has had heavily increased security. That means armed guards (usually off-duty cops), metal detectors, and/or concrete truck bomb barriers. That means lines to get into the building that will pass by a security checkpoint, whether going to shul for the High Holidays or my cousin's Bat Mitzvah or a friend's wedding. Same goes for many Jewishy institutions (charities and non-profits, even social clubs with heavily Jewish membership, etc.). Sometimes they disguise those concrete barriers as big concrete planters full of trees and flowers. Sometimes the security guards are discreet, until you see them check under the cars parked outside for bombs. I have also noticed security has been tightened in buildings and gated communities where the population is heavily Jewish, such as the community where my grandparents live in south Florida.
2) Matter-of-fact contigency planning for mass casualty attacks
2a) planning by schools:
My two young cousins were students at my old middle school and high school in the north Bronx. It's a private school, and most of the students live in the city (primarily Manhattan), with a small percentage living in Westchester County or New Jersey. On 9/11, with the travel to and from Manhattan shut down, the mothers of the small Westchester County community all took the initiative to drive down to school, pick up as many kids as they could load into their SUV's, and take them back to Westchester for the night to stay with them, since they could not return to their own homes. Within the next few months, every kid at school had to have a signed permission slip on file listing three families they were allowed to stay with, each of whom had to live outside of NYC, in case a nuke/bio/radiological attack on the city prevented them from returning home. (Or, more obliquely, in case that attack killed all of their family.) This is from a school that does not require permission slips to go the zoo or overnight trips, just to put it into comparison.
2b) planning by businesses:
Businesses changed too - when I worked at IBM in Manhattan, we practiced evacuation drills all the time, we kept food and bottled water in our desks in case we had to shelter in place. When I worked at Disney, every floor had multiple emergency bags in the Xerox rooms full of serious first aid equipment, and multiple team leaders on the staff to secure areas and account for team members in case of emergency. At NBC/Universal, after October, 2001, every computer had an emergency icon installed in the taskbar that an employee can click to instantly report a bomb threat or other emergency, and wearing your security badge at all times in a visible location became mandatory. In almost all businesses, there are now cameras everywhere.
2c) planning by individuals:
Those copious amounts of food and water I have stored in my house aren't just in case of an inevitable California earthquake, y'know. Being stuck in a grocery store in Manhattan for over an hour on the morning of 9/11 and watching what ensued as otherwise stuffy and well-heeled Upper East Siders scrambled for supplies left a rather indelible mark on my brain. (Also, watching banks close and ATM's get totally cleaned out between 10 AM and 1 PM on that day.) The relevance of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs quickly became a reality, not an abstract. I know the experience made many people and families, not just me, change their views on emergency food storage, gun ownership, and the like. I'm sure those effects trickled upwards to people's broader political views, too.
3) Effect on the arts
I think a nice long essay could be written about the effect of 9/11 and America's changed role in the world on the arts. And I don't mean the effect of going to war in Iraq, although plenty has been written on that, or perfromed with an obvious eye towards commentary on it. (Examples: Shakespeare in the Park revivals of Henry IV parts 1 and 2, with Hal portrayed as overly-pointed stand-in for Dubya). I mean examining the much broader psychological effect of 9/11 and the war on terrorism, not just that one theatre of war, polarizing though it may be. One element would be the rise in status and prevalence (and amazing blockbuster success) of superhero TV and movies in the past ~6 years, and what they say about us as a culture. Examples: Spiderman 1 & 2 as a metaphor for not wanting to exercise power, and the tragic results that can follow, or later Joss Whedon works for that matter, or the undercurrent of group paranoia against a sub-group in the X-Men movies, or most of season 2 of Battlestar Galactica, etc. Or how the rise of (and fear of) radical Islam has caused the media to heavily self-censor itself, i.e. newspapers and the Mohammed cartoons, or Comedy Central vis-a-vis South Park, or moviegoer vs. movie executive sensitivities about "Flight 93" or Oliver Stone's upcoming film. Or Broadway, for that matter, which was most directly impacted by 9/11 in the upswing in theatre security and serious downswing in ticket sales that followed 9/11, to the point that Broadway stars were doing PSA commercials practically begging ticketgoers to return. Poor "Urinetown" had the bad timing to have its opening night scheduled for 9/11 (though it got moved); if you've seen the show, I don't need to tell you why its material was such a gut-blow to watch.
Anyway, watching the arts either try to honestly digest the changes in our culture, or constantly do heavy-handed meta-commentary on it, has been interesting.
posted by Asparagirl at 6:55 PM on July 8, 2006
Saying things have "changed" implies that things are new, but some of the things that strike me the most are old things I used to think we wouldn't see again. (I'd say "hope we wouldn't see again," but I used to actually think we'd learned something.) The increased xenophobia and acceptance of racist attitudes reminds me of FDR's internment of Japanese-Americans, and the government's secrecy and assault on civil liberties reminds me of the McCarthy era. The government's crackdown on civil liberties during a threat goes back to the founding fathers, and the impulse to trade liberty for a (possibly false) sense of security isn't uniquely American.
It also surprises me how freaked out some people are, out of proportion to the threat from terrorism. I remember the tail end of the Cold War in the early '80s, when people still worried about a nuclear war with the Soviet Union, and people didn't seem as uptight about that threat as they do now. The worst-case terrorist attack, and I think it's very unlikely, is for one terrorist group to sneak one nuclear bomb into one American city. We used to handle having hundreds of Soviet missiles pointed at us without being as scared as we seem now.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:20 PM on July 8, 2006
It also surprises me how freaked out some people are, out of proportion to the threat from terrorism. I remember the tail end of the Cold War in the early '80s, when people still worried about a nuclear war with the Soviet Union, and people didn't seem as uptight about that threat as they do now. The worst-case terrorist attack, and I think it's very unlikely, is for one terrorist group to sneak one nuclear bomb into one American city. We used to handle having hundreds of Soviet missiles pointed at us without being as scared as we seem now.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:20 PM on July 8, 2006
On the positive side of things, I think that Americans as a whole have developed a little more awareness of the global nature of our world. I know many people who now read the news a little more frequently and are a little more educated in global politics. Granted, this isn't a big change, but I have perceived that people are a little more aware that the US is no longer an "island" of a country.
posted by galimatias at 7:21 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by galimatias at 7:21 PM on July 8, 2006
Response by poster: You all rock. Please keep the ideas coming.
posted by photoslob at 7:38 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by photoslob at 7:38 PM on July 8, 2006
Well this goes for Australia but I wouldn't be surprised if it also occured in America:
Rubbish bins in all major (and some minor) train stations have been removed.
Bridges now have upped security, with guards patrolling 24/7.
Certain buildings, Sydney Tower for instance, require a security guard to wave a metal-detector at you before you can go up.
If you're doing a lot of gardening, you're best not buying all your fertiliser at once.
posted by Serial Killer Slumber Party at 7:44 PM on July 8, 2006
Rubbish bins in all major (and some minor) train stations have been removed.
Bridges now have upped security, with guards patrolling 24/7.
Certain buildings, Sydney Tower for instance, require a security guard to wave a metal-detector at you before you can go up.
If you're doing a lot of gardening, you're best not buying all your fertiliser at once.
posted by Serial Killer Slumber Party at 7:44 PM on July 8, 2006
I honestly think New Yorkers are nicer to each other. Just to throw something positive in there.
posted by sweetkid at 8:07 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by sweetkid at 8:07 PM on July 8, 2006
9/11 was a direct inspiration for my first band (which completely changed my life). That sounds lame, but we played a mean A-N-T-H-R-A-X to the tune of "Ratt Fink".
Americans too young to remember JFK's death now have a date/experience in common that "Everyone remembers where they were when..." Kurt Cobain's death was too age-specific.
My sister's workplace has gas masks under all of the desks.
I wince more in movies and tv when planes crash into things. I cannot suspend my disbelief anymore.
posted by unknowncommand at 8:19 PM on July 8, 2006
Americans too young to remember JFK's death now have a date/experience in common that "Everyone remembers where they were when..." Kurt Cobain's death was too age-specific.
My sister's workplace has gas masks under all of the desks.
I wince more in movies and tv when planes crash into things. I cannot suspend my disbelief anymore.
posted by unknowncommand at 8:19 PM on July 8, 2006
Er, rather, I cannot accept such things as mere fantasy and action sequences anymore.
posted by unknowncommand at 8:20 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by unknowncommand at 8:20 PM on July 8, 2006
I've started noticing the looks that people give anyone they think is middle-eastern or Muslim. (Today I heard someone say something snide about how a girl was wearing a burkha (she was wearing a head scarf, actually), and how it was at least 80 and you'd think they could take them off in such heat.) It makes me really sad to see blatant racism being given a thumbs up so long as it's against "them".
The airport red tape is a pain. The time consumed by getting there extremely early, going through the whole search, waiting for other people to put their shoes on so you can sit down and put your shoes on, could be used for something constructive instead.
The border guards on the US/Canadian border near me are much bitchier now, as well. Prior to 9/11 I had no problems with them. Post 9/11 they seem to ~want~ you to step out of line.
posted by Meep! Eek! at 8:52 PM on July 8, 2006
The airport red tape is a pain. The time consumed by getting there extremely early, going through the whole search, waiting for other people to put their shoes on so you can sit down and put your shoes on, could be used for something constructive instead.
The border guards on the US/Canadian border near me are much bitchier now, as well. Prior to 9/11 I had no problems with them. Post 9/11 they seem to ~want~ you to step out of line.
posted by Meep! Eek! at 8:52 PM on July 8, 2006
we now live in a police state.
the media seem to be more in a sensationalistic panic mode.
posted by brandz at 8:58 PM on July 8, 2006
the media seem to be more in a sensationalistic panic mode.
posted by brandz at 8:58 PM on July 8, 2006
I have become so disgusted with mainstream news and its lack of journalistic integrity that I have to force myself to even watch it.
Unfortunately, I have no patience for acquaintances who defend Bush or Cheney. It's not a partisan thing either. You can be a Republican, but if you defend Bush or Cheney, I'm gagging.
I'm not from Minnesota, but I really miss Paul Wellstone anyway.
I sometimes find myself apologizing to people from other countries for the current administration when we are discussion politics. I feel more than a little ashamed to be in the same country as this administration and it makes me sad that I can't be 100% proud of living here.
I got out my dictionary and looked up the difference in the definitions of "nationalism" versus "patriotism".
I know who Ann Coulter is now and I really wish I didn't.
I love the Daily Show a 100 thousand times more than I did before 9/11.
posted by jeanmari at 9:26 PM on July 8, 2006
Unfortunately, I have no patience for acquaintances who defend Bush or Cheney. It's not a partisan thing either. You can be a Republican, but if you defend Bush or Cheney, I'm gagging.
I'm not from Minnesota, but I really miss Paul Wellstone anyway.
I sometimes find myself apologizing to people from other countries for the current administration when we are discussion politics. I feel more than a little ashamed to be in the same country as this administration and it makes me sad that I can't be 100% proud of living here.
I got out my dictionary and looked up the difference in the definitions of "nationalism" versus "patriotism".
I know who Ann Coulter is now and I really wish I didn't.
I love the Daily Show a 100 thousand times more than I did before 9/11.
posted by jeanmari at 9:26 PM on July 8, 2006
we now live in a police state.
Where do you live?! It's really easy to be flippant about terms like "police state" or "McCarthy era", and in some ways, there's a hint of truth there, but seriously: I imagine if you describe your daily life to someone in Cuba or China or even a democracy like Israel, and used a term like that, you'd be ridiculed.
Some of what I've read thus far has been sobering and eye-opening: I don't live anywhere near NYC, and reading about stuff like permission slips for "where to go in a nuclear attack" is... unbelievable. I'm thankful it's not like that in my part of the country, and I'm sad that it's like that somewhere else. But (unfortunately) it may be a smart move.
And don't get me wrong - I think a lot of the way the government and other people have changed is very wrong, and very disturbing; government was already expanding it's intrusiveness pre-9/11, and I hate that it's got another reason to listen to phone calls or whatever else might be going on. And taking off my shoes at the airport strikes me as a stupid waste of time that will save nothing except perhaps a couple TSA jobs.
But please don't tell me we live in a police state. I've never been to a real one, but I've heard stories, and nothing here even compares. Find someone who lived in Soviet Russia and ask.
posted by SuperNova at 9:28 PM on July 8, 2006
Where do you live?! It's really easy to be flippant about terms like "police state" or "McCarthy era", and in some ways, there's a hint of truth there, but seriously: I imagine if you describe your daily life to someone in Cuba or China or even a democracy like Israel, and used a term like that, you'd be ridiculed.
Some of what I've read thus far has been sobering and eye-opening: I don't live anywhere near NYC, and reading about stuff like permission slips for "where to go in a nuclear attack" is... unbelievable. I'm thankful it's not like that in my part of the country, and I'm sad that it's like that somewhere else. But (unfortunately) it may be a smart move.
And don't get me wrong - I think a lot of the way the government and other people have changed is very wrong, and very disturbing; government was already expanding it's intrusiveness pre-9/11, and I hate that it's got another reason to listen to phone calls or whatever else might be going on. And taking off my shoes at the airport strikes me as a stupid waste of time that will save nothing except perhaps a couple TSA jobs.
But please don't tell me we live in a police state. I've never been to a real one, but I've heard stories, and nothing here even compares. Find someone who lived in Soviet Russia and ask.
posted by SuperNova at 9:28 PM on July 8, 2006
Other then being annoyed by self-righteous, annoying conservatives, nothing. Oh, and I can't meet friends at the gates in airports anymore.
posted by delmoi at 10:27 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by delmoi at 10:27 PM on July 8, 2006
Where do you live?! It's really easy to be flippant about terms like "police state" or "McCarthy era", and in some ways, there's a hint of truth there, but seriously: I imagine if you describe your daily life to someone in Cuba or China or even a democracy like Israel, and used a term like that, you'd be ridiculed.
Well, they might get ridiculed but by what seems to me the most relevant measure: per-capita incarceration, the US is far more totalitarian then China or Cuba. Not that any of that has anything to do with 9/11.
posted by delmoi at 10:29 PM on July 8, 2006
Well, they might get ridiculed but by what seems to me the most relevant measure: per-capita incarceration, the US is far more totalitarian then China or Cuba. Not that any of that has anything to do with 9/11.
posted by delmoi at 10:29 PM on July 8, 2006
While not directly related to 9/11 by anyone involved, it beggars belief to think that the SCOTUS ruling that all people must provide ID to police officers upon demand in any situation would have happened otherwise.
You don't need to produce ID, you only need to give your name.
posted by delmoi at 10:40 PM on July 8, 2006
You don't need to produce ID, you only need to give your name.
posted by delmoi at 10:40 PM on July 8, 2006
got a pocketknife taken by security guards checking people at the door of hockey games in Atlanta.
am taking an extended roadtrip for a few months and am seriously wondering if I will be able to (politics and environmental impact ignored for the sake of this point) actually monetarily afford to buy the gas to drive such long distances (10,000 miles) again.
am honestly much more removed from politics in general because I have become so disenchanted with the superficiality of the public's involvement in the process.
am considering moving from the USA as its future I extrapolate from present (political and cultural) occurrences is not one I wish to be caught up in.
posted by iurodivii at 11:15 PM on July 8, 2006
am taking an extended roadtrip for a few months and am seriously wondering if I will be able to (politics and environmental impact ignored for the sake of this point) actually monetarily afford to buy the gas to drive such long distances (10,000 miles) again.
am honestly much more removed from politics in general because I have become so disenchanted with the superficiality of the public's involvement in the process.
am considering moving from the USA as its future I extrapolate from present (political and cultural) occurrences is not one I wish to be caught up in.
posted by iurodivii at 11:15 PM on July 8, 2006
One element would be the rise in status and prevalence (and amazing blockbuster success) of superhero TV and movies in the past ~6 years, and what they say about us as a culture.
In this same vein, TV's filled to bloating with procedurals. Cops, lawyers, detectives, psychic detectives, doctors all over the place.
posted by furiousthought at 12:06 AM on July 9, 2006
In this same vein, TV's filled to bloating with procedurals. Cops, lawyers, detectives, psychic detectives, doctors all over the place.
posted by furiousthought at 12:06 AM on July 9, 2006
Do we live in a police state? In a column a while back Ask the Pilot said that if you were to show a video of a line of travelers being harrassed by the uniformed TSA to somebody from 1985, they'd assume it was filmed in the Soviet Union.
I had to provide my driver's license the other day while getting preapproved for a mortgage. As per the Patriot act, the lender is required to verify your identity so that they can make sure you are not a terrorist.
Not just borrowers -- I've been asked to produce my license when opening new bank accounts.
posted by Rash at 12:23 AM on July 9, 2006
I had to provide my driver's license the other day while getting preapproved for a mortgage. As per the Patriot act, the lender is required to verify your identity so that they can make sure you are not a terrorist.
Not just borrowers -- I've been asked to produce my license when opening new bank accounts.
posted by Rash at 12:23 AM on July 9, 2006
When the government tells me it's broken up a terror cell in Miami, I assume it's just another bullshit agent-provoked nutjob circle-jerk, timed to distract Americans from real problems this nation faces.
Kinda makes me pine for the days when if the FBI told you they uncovered a plot, you cheered. Now it's, "I wonder how long the FBI had their provocateur working on these mopes before the Justice Dept. decided they needed a weeklong blot-out-the-sun media orgy."
posted by sacre_bleu at 12:43 AM on July 9, 2006
Kinda makes me pine for the days when if the FBI told you they uncovered a plot, you cheered. Now it's, "I wonder how long the FBI had their provocateur working on these mopes before the Justice Dept. decided they needed a weeklong blot-out-the-sun media orgy."
posted by sacre_bleu at 12:43 AM on July 9, 2006
9/11 was a huge blow to America's international image. Before we were pretty much invincible, had never been attacked on our own soil, wiped up the Germans and the Japanese and wore down the Russians and communists. Not saying this is accurate, just a general feeling of America's invincible image. 9/11 made us appear a lot more vulnerable. I think the Iraq thing was, among other things, a direct attempt to reapply our "toughest boy on the block" image.
posted by sophist at 1:59 AM on July 9, 2006
posted by sophist at 1:59 AM on July 9, 2006
please don't tell me we live in a police state. I've never been to a real one, but I've heard stories
I'm afraid you have been to one. I have spent time in one of your examples, and it's not so different here. Also, I assume you're too young to remember Army-McCarthy, or you wouldn't dismiss those comparisons so readily. Things in the U.S. are categorically worse than they were forty years ago, and if it doesn't turn around soon, the "police state - yes or no?" discussions will be academic (and probably outlawed.)
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:44 AM on July 9, 2006
I'm afraid you have been to one. I have spent time in one of your examples, and it's not so different here. Also, I assume you're too young to remember Army-McCarthy, or you wouldn't dismiss those comparisons so readily. Things in the U.S. are categorically worse than they were forty years ago, and if it doesn't turn around soon, the "police state - yes or no?" discussions will be academic (and probably outlawed.)
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:44 AM on July 9, 2006
I lived in DC in near the White House during and for a few years after 9/11.
Several of my Muslim friends stopped wearing head scarves. I saw the occasional full body covering (face covering except for eyeslot and loose white or black robe) before 9/11, but that disappeared starting 9/12.
My apartment faced the Potomac and I was relieved when National Airport finally re-opened and planes rattled my windows again. Also, passengers cannot leave their seats for half an hour on flights coming in or leaving from DCA.
If I hear a plane make an odd noise or fly too low I always look at my watch and note the time and check the news later to see if anything happened.
Flag pins and stickers everywhere. No street mailboxes anywhere.
All the protests on the National mall changed in tone. They went from exuberent to sombre. Even the World Bank/IMF protest in 2003 lacked the giant puppets and zeal of the 2000 World Bank/IMF protest.
My mother never did get to tour the White House.
I had to scrap plans to photograph factories in Western PA.
I ran into someone a little aggressive and creepy at the bus stop. Feeling squicked out I called the local police station to see if anything had happened involving that person (I could give a description) and to get advice about what to do if I saw that person again. After I described him as maybe being from the Middle East or South Asia the officer on the line seemed to want to convince me that he might be a terrorist and would not believe me when I said that he has more of a creep than a potential bomber. (Seriously, how many terrorists follow people around asking where they live and what their phone number is?) So, the local police are more useless than ever.
posted by Alison at 5:40 AM on July 9, 2006
Several of my Muslim friends stopped wearing head scarves. I saw the occasional full body covering (face covering except for eyeslot and loose white or black robe) before 9/11, but that disappeared starting 9/12.
My apartment faced the Potomac and I was relieved when National Airport finally re-opened and planes rattled my windows again. Also, passengers cannot leave their seats for half an hour on flights coming in or leaving from DCA.
If I hear a plane make an odd noise or fly too low I always look at my watch and note the time and check the news later to see if anything happened.
Flag pins and stickers everywhere. No street mailboxes anywhere.
All the protests on the National mall changed in tone. They went from exuberent to sombre. Even the World Bank/IMF protest in 2003 lacked the giant puppets and zeal of the 2000 World Bank/IMF protest.
My mother never did get to tour the White House.
I had to scrap plans to photograph factories in Western PA.
I ran into someone a little aggressive and creepy at the bus stop. Feeling squicked out I called the local police station to see if anything had happened involving that person (I could give a description) and to get advice about what to do if I saw that person again. After I described him as maybe being from the Middle East or South Asia the officer on the line seemed to want to convince me that he might be a terrorist and would not believe me when I said that he has more of a creep than a potential bomber. (Seriously, how many terrorists follow people around asking where they live and what their phone number is?) So, the local police are more useless than ever.
posted by Alison at 5:40 AM on July 9, 2006
The in your seat rule for the last 30 minutes when flying into DCA (Reagan) has not been in effect for almost a year.
I was harrassed by US Marshalls for taking pictures of the outside of our local post office (it's also a federal court building).
posted by Xurando at 6:06 AM on July 9, 2006
I was harrassed by US Marshalls for taking pictures of the outside of our local post office (it's also a federal court building).
posted by Xurando at 6:06 AM on July 9, 2006
I can't pee in the bathroom in the subway station. Every goddamn bathroom in every goddamn station has been closed since shortly after the September 11 attacks because their next target just might be the john.
Waiting in the security line at the airport is another long-term economic affect of the attacks. It wastes a lot of time for a lot of people.
I miss people meeting me at the gate when I get off the plane, and miss meeting people at the gate when they arrive, and I (sometimes) miss waiting with people for their plane when they leave. Now I drop people off outside the airport, and it's a little strange to realize that they're going to be waiting in line and sitting around for an hour before they actually leave.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:36 AM on July 9, 2006
Waiting in the security line at the airport is another long-term economic affect of the attacks. It wastes a lot of time for a lot of people.
I miss people meeting me at the gate when I get off the plane, and miss meeting people at the gate when they arrive, and I (sometimes) miss waiting with people for their plane when they leave. Now I drop people off outside the airport, and it's a little strange to realize that they're going to be waiting in line and sitting around for an hour before they actually leave.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:36 AM on July 9, 2006
I notice that flags seem to be lowered to half-mast much more frequently these days. Before 9/11, when I'd see a lowered flag, I absolutely knew what the occasion was. Now I see them once or twice a month and sometimes I know why they're lowered, and sometimes not.
posted by chippie at 7:14 AM on July 9, 2006
posted by chippie at 7:14 AM on July 9, 2006
The in your seat rule for the last 30 minutes when flying into DCA (Reagan) has not been in effect for almost a year.
Thank goodness. DCA was my favorite airport until that rule went into effect.
posted by Alison at 7:15 AM on July 9, 2006
Thank goodness. DCA was my favorite airport until that rule went into effect.
posted by Alison at 7:15 AM on July 9, 2006
When taking the Victoria Clipper from Seattle to Victoria B.C., we were treated to police in paramilitary uniforms marching bomb-sniffing dogs through the waiting area before borading.
American politics have become much more divisive, which only serves to prevent useful policy from being implemented. In this way, the representative government has been paralysed.
posted by jimfl at 7:43 AM on July 9, 2006
American politics have become much more divisive, which only serves to prevent useful policy from being implemented. In this way, the representative government has been paralysed.
posted by jimfl at 7:43 AM on July 9, 2006
I used to work for a media company in Rockefeller Center and I still do a lot of freelance work for them. When I worked there (mid-late '90s) we rarely took our photo IDs out of our desk drawers, and there was a security guard in the building only after hours. Since 9/11, employees have to use their IDs to access the elevators and open the doors on each floor. Visitors must sign in with the security desk in the lobby, show govt-issued photo ID, get a visitor's pass, and have the guards call up to whoever you're visiting. If the call goes to voicemail, you wait until the guard gets a call back. No exceptions. One guard, who'd known me for over 10 years, let me slip by one day without a call-back (he offered, I didn't ask) and he nearly got fired.
The building east of my community garden has lots of Bangladeshi families and the women used to sign up for vegetable plots. In the summer, we'd wave at each other when we were in the garden at the same time. I'd feel sorry for them in their blackest-black chadors with the little mesh peepholes and I'm sure they felt sorry for me in my shorts-and-tanktop infidel depravity. They don't come to the garden anymore.
This year, Fleet Week opened with an early-morning flyover by a squadron of jets. Actually, several flyovers. I'm a sound, sound sleeper but the first pass got me up and on my feet almost before I'd opened my eyes. I tried to go back to sleep but finally gave up and went online to figure out what the hell was going on. I heard later that all the papers and news stations were flooded with calls asking the same thing.
One of my favorite bloggers, Teresa Nielsen Hayden, speaks for me when she says, "I deeply resent the way this administration makes me feel like a nutbar conspiracy theorist."
posted by vetiver at 7:49 AM on July 9, 2006
The building east of my community garden has lots of Bangladeshi families and the women used to sign up for vegetable plots. In the summer, we'd wave at each other when we were in the garden at the same time. I'd feel sorry for them in their blackest-black chadors with the little mesh peepholes and I'm sure they felt sorry for me in my shorts-and-tanktop infidel depravity. They don't come to the garden anymore.
This year, Fleet Week opened with an early-morning flyover by a squadron of jets. Actually, several flyovers. I'm a sound, sound sleeper but the first pass got me up and on my feet almost before I'd opened my eyes. I tried to go back to sleep but finally gave up and went online to figure out what the hell was going on. I heard later that all the papers and news stations were flooded with calls asking the same thing.
One of my favorite bloggers, Teresa Nielsen Hayden, speaks for me when she says, "I deeply resent the way this administration makes me feel like a nutbar conspiracy theorist."
posted by vetiver at 7:49 AM on July 9, 2006
Biggest difference I've noticed is that I'm more careful with what I say. I believe it would be altogether too easy to make some cynical or sarcastic comment, and have it treated as a serious threat with all sorts of negative consequences...
posted by five fresh fish at 9:26 AM on July 9, 2006
posted by five fresh fish at 9:26 AM on July 9, 2006
I've noticed changes in Canada. I (think) it's made the divide between cities and suburbs/rural areas a little more visible.
Folks who live at the intersection of Arsehole and Nowhere now feel free to lecture city-dwellers on the dangers of multiculturalism, and about security. City-dwellers increasingly resent it. (This may be highly anecdotal, but it's something I notice day-to-day.)
posted by generichuman at 11:09 AM on July 9, 2006
Folks who live at the intersection of Arsehole and Nowhere now feel free to lecture city-dwellers on the dangers of multiculturalism, and about security. City-dwellers increasingly resent it. (This may be highly anecdotal, but it's something I notice day-to-day.)
posted by generichuman at 11:09 AM on July 9, 2006
I'm not from Minnesota, but I really miss Paul Wellstone anyway.
I am, and I do too. Especially since both senators from MN voted for the most recent flag-burning amendment. You know, the one that no one seems to have heard about, because it was a non-event to the MSM even though it was only one vote shy of passing the Senate.
posted by cabingirl at 11:42 AM on July 9, 2006
I am, and I do too. Especially since both senators from MN voted for the most recent flag-burning amendment. You know, the one that no one seems to have heard about, because it was a non-event to the MSM even though it was only one vote shy of passing the Senate.
posted by cabingirl at 11:42 AM on July 9, 2006
Meep! Eek! writes "(Today I heard someone say something snide about how a girl was wearing a burkha (she was wearing a head scarf, actually), and how it was at least 80 and you'd think they could take them off in such heat.) It makes me really sad to see blatant racism being given a thumbs up so long as it's against 'them'."
This isn't racism, it's religionism.
iurodivii writes "am taking an extended roadtrip for a few months and am seriously wondering if I will be able to (politics and environmental impact ignored for the sake of this point) actually monetarily afford to buy the gas to drive such long distances (10,000 miles) again."
Blame global oil peaking not 9/11.
posted by Mitheral at 5:55 PM on July 9, 2006
This isn't racism, it's religionism.
iurodivii writes "am taking an extended roadtrip for a few months and am seriously wondering if I will be able to (politics and environmental impact ignored for the sake of this point) actually monetarily afford to buy the gas to drive such long distances (10,000 miles) again."
Blame global oil peaking not 9/11.
posted by Mitheral at 5:55 PM on July 9, 2006
The horrific events of 9-11 were the very high and unfortunate but nesessary price of living in a free and open society. Like the high price paid in the Civil War, WWI & WWII, Korea, Viet Nam.....All the wars. The real COST of 9-11 is the 2 boobs at the tiller (Cheney/Bush) chewing up and spitting out our civil rights and liberties. Their Dept. of Homeland Security is just a HUGE scam to channel bux to their cronies. The war in Iraq is a pathetic farce and just another way to spread the $$$ amongst friends. This administration and the party they are affiliated with is a syndicate that makes la cosa nostra look like the cub scouts. And the proof will be that more than 3 republicans are left standing after the mid terms. They've already out right stolen the last 2 elections, the next will be a new greek tragedy. D'AH! I would never have imagined that it would get this bad....
posted by sgobbare at 6:50 AM on July 10, 2006
posted by sgobbare at 6:50 AM on July 10, 2006
i've always had this peculiar habit of saying the 911 emergency number as 'nine - eleven' as opposed to 'nine one one'.
just the other day, i said that to my 14 yr old son. he winced, and i realized what i had said. have to practice saying 'nine one one' now.
posted by lester at 12:26 PM on July 10, 2006
just the other day, i said that to my 14 yr old son. he winced, and i realized what i had said. have to practice saying 'nine one one' now.
posted by lester at 12:26 PM on July 10, 2006
"Not just borrowers -- I've been asked to produce my license when opening new bank accounts."
That has nothing to do with 9/11 at all. I remember having to provide my drivers license & SSN to open bank accounts well before 9/11.
Of course, if you're an illegal immigrant, you hardly have to provide squat to open accounts or get a mortgage.
And Geocaching has certainly been affected by 9/11. That's the only thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet. Sure, it's not much considering all that's happened, but it's definitely been affected in a negative way.
posted by drstein at 12:29 PM on July 10, 2006
That has nothing to do with 9/11 at all. I remember having to provide my drivers license & SSN to open bank accounts well before 9/11.
Of course, if you're an illegal immigrant, you hardly have to provide squat to open accounts or get a mortgage.
And Geocaching has certainly been affected by 9/11. That's the only thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet. Sure, it's not much considering all that's happened, but it's definitely been affected in a negative way.
posted by drstein at 12:29 PM on July 10, 2006
Something affecting me currently: Kids and amateurs cannot buy some basic science and chemistry supplies, (and risk getting flagged on lists for others). (wired article that touches on this).
Safety restrictions were always creeping along, but became positively nutty after 9/11. For example, people never got into trouble with the NRC prior to 9/11 for merely taking the Am241 pellet out of smoke detectors to use for science experiments and displays. The post 9/11 sabre-rattling over smoke detectors has impacted how I can do science displays.
Speaking of which, geiger counters become more expensive, as people starting buying them for emergency kits. Additionally, at one time I had placed some bids on some gear a day or so before the whitehouse started talking up dirty bomb threats and raising the alert level, and all the auctions soared to twice the previously going rate. I should have been selling, not buying :-)
As someone here on a visa, I'm aware that the law changes resulting from 9/11 now mean that mere suspicion (no evidence needed) is sufficient grounds to detain people like myself without charges or access to a laywer for up to 30 days. This means if a beat cop is having a bad day and decides to take it out on me, there would be no repercussions for him destroying my life just to be a prick. As a result, there are a several law-abiding activities I would normally do that I now avoid simply because I want to minimise my contact with law enforcement - not all of them are the good cops.
I've been fingerprinted due to new 9/11 border laws. (I hope no-one commits murder at a place I've visited the day before :-)
I've seen people become more and more fearful of what they say around who. (I've also learned to keep my mouth shut when in doubt). It's commonly said that Americans live in fear, but if it was bad before 9/11, it's worse now (though I think this is currently easing - it was worse a couple of years back tha it is now. People are relaxing again).
When I leave the country, and all these weights are lifted, it is an indescribable experience. I guess it's the feeling of exchanging hollow epithets about freedom and rights for the real thing.
As such, it's not entirely pleasant being here, and I've heard that universities are complaining that the USA is on the way to no-longer reaping the rewards of having the world's best and brightest, because it (and the process) has become such an unwelcoming place to foreigners, that the world's leading minds now increasingly prefer to go to institutions elsewhere. But I can't confirm that firsthand - I'm still here after all :-D
posted by -harlequin- at 12:43 PM on July 10, 2006
Safety restrictions were always creeping along, but became positively nutty after 9/11. For example, people never got into trouble with the NRC prior to 9/11 for merely taking the Am241 pellet out of smoke detectors to use for science experiments and displays. The post 9/11 sabre-rattling over smoke detectors has impacted how I can do science displays.
Speaking of which, geiger counters become more expensive, as people starting buying them for emergency kits. Additionally, at one time I had placed some bids on some gear a day or so before the whitehouse started talking up dirty bomb threats and raising the alert level, and all the auctions soared to twice the previously going rate. I should have been selling, not buying :-)
As someone here on a visa, I'm aware that the law changes resulting from 9/11 now mean that mere suspicion (no evidence needed) is sufficient grounds to detain people like myself without charges or access to a laywer for up to 30 days. This means if a beat cop is having a bad day and decides to take it out on me, there would be no repercussions for him destroying my life just to be a prick. As a result, there are a several law-abiding activities I would normally do that I now avoid simply because I want to minimise my contact with law enforcement - not all of them are the good cops.
I've been fingerprinted due to new 9/11 border laws. (I hope no-one commits murder at a place I've visited the day before :-)
I've seen people become more and more fearful of what they say around who. (I've also learned to keep my mouth shut when in doubt). It's commonly said that Americans live in fear, but if it was bad before 9/11, it's worse now (though I think this is currently easing - it was worse a couple of years back tha it is now. People are relaxing again).
When I leave the country, and all these weights are lifted, it is an indescribable experience. I guess it's the feeling of exchanging hollow epithets about freedom and rights for the real thing.
As such, it's not entirely pleasant being here, and I've heard that universities are complaining that the USA is on the way to no-longer reaping the rewards of having the world's best and brightest, because it (and the process) has become such an unwelcoming place to foreigners, that the world's leading minds now increasingly prefer to go to institutions elsewhere. But I can't confirm that firsthand - I'm still here after all :-D
posted by -harlequin- at 12:43 PM on July 10, 2006
Kids and amateurs cannot buy some basic science and chemistry supplies
No doubt it's even harder now, but I first encountered this difficulty in the 1990s, trying to acquire laboratory glassware, and the excuse given then was the War on Drugs.
posted by Rash at 3:39 PM on July 10, 2006
No doubt it's even harder now, but I first encountered this difficulty in the 1990s, trying to acquire laboratory glassware, and the excuse given then was the War on Drugs.
posted by Rash at 3:39 PM on July 10, 2006
Mitheral writes: This isn't racism, it's religionism.
You're right, of course. I suppose I should really have used the more general term "bigotry". I have just seen too many people who are of a similar skin tone and/or accent looked upon as one of "them", and many who are from the same region, but different religions, are just lumped together with Muslims. (We have a thriving Sikh community here, and I've seen/heard them get treated with the same suspicion.) This is probably why my mind went to 'racism' instead of 'religious bigotry'. Not that these sorts of people couldn't be just as prejudiced against Sikhs as well, I suppose.
posted by Meep! Eek! at 8:50 PM on July 10, 2006
You're right, of course. I suppose I should really have used the more general term "bigotry". I have just seen too many people who are of a similar skin tone and/or accent looked upon as one of "them", and many who are from the same region, but different religions, are just lumped together with Muslims. (We have a thriving Sikh community here, and I've seen/heard them get treated with the same suspicion.) This is probably why my mind went to 'racism' instead of 'religious bigotry'. Not that these sorts of people couldn't be just as prejudiced against Sikhs as well, I suppose.
posted by Meep! Eek! at 8:50 PM on July 10, 2006
I agree, it's why I pointed it out. It drives me crazy that so many people seem to think that only Arabs are Muslim and/or that every Arab is Muslim. Or that every brown person who isn't Asian, Black or Native American must be from the Middle East and is therefor Muslim.
posted by Mitheral at 9:19 AM on July 11, 2006
posted by Mitheral at 9:19 AM on July 11, 2006
Rash: Yeah, that's what I meant by the second paragraph, though "safety" was a poor choice of words :)
One of the big things that 9/11 has done is allowed these pre-existing agendas to suddenly operate nakedly and radically in ways unthinkable before. There were all sorts of (undesirable) things that all sorts of people were covertly pushing behind the scenes, but then 9/11 delivered a blank cheque smokescreen to openly slam their agendas through in the unstoppable name of national security.
That is an effect of 9/11 that has definitely affected us - 9/11 as an extreme catalyst for all manor of unwanted agendas and restrictions things that were already quietly being pushed, but previously faced sufficient resistance to keep some sanity in place.
posted by -harlequin- at 1:44 PM on July 11, 2006
One of the big things that 9/11 has done is allowed these pre-existing agendas to suddenly operate nakedly and radically in ways unthinkable before. There were all sorts of (undesirable) things that all sorts of people were covertly pushing behind the scenes, but then 9/11 delivered a blank cheque smokescreen to openly slam their agendas through in the unstoppable name of national security.
That is an effect of 9/11 that has definitely affected us - 9/11 as an extreme catalyst for all manor of unwanted agendas and restrictions things that were already quietly being pushed, but previously faced sufficient resistance to keep some sanity in place.
posted by -harlequin- at 1:44 PM on July 11, 2006
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The reaction of most New Yorkers to the Holland Tunnel plot announcement yesterday was really to shrug and speculate about how much damage it actually would have caused.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 12:52 PM on July 8, 2006