I feel lightheaded... maybe you should drive.

May 23, 2006 8:25 AM

Hallucinogens as weapons?

Have hallucinogens ever been successfully used in a war situation? Have they ever been used as weapons in more localised, non-military situations, such as acts of terrorism or riot control? If not, are there particular reasons why they would be unsuitable?

posted by RokkitNite to technology (29 comments total)

This film might give you some insights.
posted by Jairus at 8:36 AM on May 23, 2006

I don't know that I would want a bunch of already violante people with guns, in that state of mind

and really....that's the last thing we want....drugs, which already have a horrible public image, would be doomed.
posted by killyb at 8:47 AM on May 23, 2006

As far as I know they have not been. The problem is dosage -- how do you make sure every target gets enough to incapacitate them, without getting so much as to kill them?

It would be a crummy choice for a weapon in any case because the effect on the target would be unpredictable. And I don't see any advantage or feature they have which would make them a compelling choice as a weapon. What would/could they do that can't be done better some other way?
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 8:48 AM on May 23, 2006

BZ gas was rumored to have been used by the CIA in the Vietnam war to induce hallucinations in VC soldiers.
posted by Mr. Six at 8:59 AM on May 23, 2006

Steven Den Beste has it, if you can deliver an arbitrary chemical to enemy soldiers, hallucinogens won't be the most effective chemical to choose. Although some hallucinogens have such broad safe activity dosages (LSD), many are also very sensitive to degradation in the environment(LSD again) and are difficult to disperse by aerosol (virtually all of them). There have been experiments with drugs that cause extreme arousal for chemical warfare, but these, like hallucinogens are really pretty gimmicky.
posted by atrazine at 8:59 AM on May 23, 2006

Well, define "weapon."
posted by bricoleur at 9:00 AM on May 23, 2006

I don't see why you couldn't easily replace the chemical payload intended for these (defunct) proposals with your hallucinogen of choice. Its effectiveness, on the other hand, would be highly questionable.

...what the military called a "distasteful but completely non-lethal" blow to morale.
posted by prostyle at 9:00 AM on May 23, 2006

BZ was also rumored to have been used by the Serbs during the Srebrenica massacre.
posted by cog_nate at 9:01 AM on May 23, 2006

BZ gas is the only one I know of. The Russian theater disaster is the only location that it is thought to have been used.
posted by 517 at 9:02 AM on May 23, 2006

This sounds like a question for mkultra.
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:12 AM on May 23, 2006

To maintain security of a secret program, LSD was used as a cover for assasination.
posted by hortense at 9:18 AM on May 23, 2006

The movie Young Sherlock Holmes a premise like this: an assasain used a hallucinogen to induce such terrible hallucinations in someone that they would quite likely reach a point of frenzied desparation where they'd bring harm to themselves. This was helpful to the villains because it tended to look like suicide.
posted by weston at 9:28 AM on May 23, 2006

A more direct link here to the US Air Force's "gay bomb" documents, as mentioned briefly in the BBC article referenced by prostyle above.
posted by longbaugh at 9:40 AM on May 23, 2006

I believe this is The Scarecrow's MO.
posted by gwint at 9:55 AM on May 23, 2006

Not a hallucinogen, but I recall a very active urban belief that the crack epidemic was manufactured by the government to control the black population in large US cities.
I would think that would be the best way to use drugs of any sort as a weapon...mass population control...rather than as a battlefield weapon.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:04 AM on May 23, 2006

Al Qaeda also has the gay bomb (related thread). Pat Benatar has taken a strong position against using sex as a weapon.

A Nude Bomb might work better. Or maybe a Bra Bomb.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:30 AM on May 23, 2006

This idea has been used at least twice in science fiction: Brian Aldiss' Barefoot in the Head and Patrick Farley's Spiders.
posted by arto at 11:20 AM on May 23, 2006

I don't know if hallucinogens per se are involved, but child soldiers are frequently kept on drugs, so as to keep them feeling invincible and malleable.

Here's a quick peek.

...

Also, there's the story of how the Hashishim were kept in a blue daze back at HQ. There, they were plied with hash, port, opium, and women, and after a time they would be awoken and sent to go out and kill, in order to earn their more permanent reward in Paradise.
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:10 PM on May 23, 2006

BZ gas is the only one I know of. The Russian theater disaster is the only location that it is thought to have been used.

The Russians claim, and it is consistent with the evidence, that a fentanyl derivative was used in the theatre debacle. These drugs are synthetic opioids that are potentially tens of thousands of times as potent as morphine, and despite that are relatively safe, as long as you make sure the patient/target keeps breathing. They are used a lot in anesthesia, particularly cardiac anesthesia, and are also the active ingredient in the tranquilizing darts used by wildlife vets. They are not hallucinogens but as far as I know they are the only time mass drugging has been used in a situation like the one you describe.
posted by TedW at 12:12 PM on May 23, 2006

Also: there's a nice moment in the otherwise awful Domino where mescaline is used, effectively, as a weapon.

Incidentally, this leads to the Tom Waits scene, which is the only really good scene anyhow.

...

Furthermore, while not a hundred percent related, I would encourage you to check out at least the first book of Sinister Forces, by Peter Levenda. Dense and batty stuff, but the MKULTRA and ARTICHOKE material is worth a gander.
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:13 PM on May 23, 2006

Sticherbeast - my understanding is that the hashishin theory has been mostly disproved nowadays - I could be wrong however (the wiki article does a reasonable job of covering the basic arguments). The drug of choice for third world militias is khat which has many different effects but is not really a hallucinogen.

I have to agree with SDB - whilst British Army studies of LSD usage point to it being exceptional for making the men run around laughing and climbing trees (previous mefi thread) it is extremely difficult to correctly gauge the amount you are administering and therefore would be little use on a modern battlefield.
posted by longbaugh at 12:27 PM on May 23, 2006

well that was weird. i read this thread, and went over to wikipedia to cure more throwes of boredom, and the first random article that came up was this:

Basson Brownies or Basson's Brownies is the affectionate term given to the potent ecstasy capsules purportedly manufactured by notorious South African mass-murderer Dr. Wouter Basson. In his capacity as head of Chemical and Biological Weapon development for South Africa during apartheid, Dr. Basson conducted innumerable ethically questionable experiments vis-a-vis possible applications of psychedelic drugs as incapacitants or agents for biological warfare.
posted by Mach5 at 12:36 PM on May 23, 2006

White South African spooks seriously considering using MDMA/Ecstasy to dose agitated black Africans into passiveness. Project Coast produced 900 kg of 100%, prime-grade E.
posted by meehawl at 12:46 PM on May 23, 2006

There are certain LSD tribes in rural Colorado that deal with enemies of the family by "dosing" them; that is, they give them waaay too much liquid LSD, enough to permanently remove them from anything resembling reality.
posted by First Post at 1:34 PM on May 23, 2006

Scarecrow used hallucinogens as a weapon against Gotham City in Batman...

Woa Mach5, that's really interesting, ecstacy used to feel high when it could have been created as a weapon...
Who would name a treat after a mass murderer? Hitler's BBQ Sauce, BTK Marshmellow Cereal, PepperJack the Ripper Cheese Recipe...
posted by lain at 1:58 PM on May 23, 2006

they give them waaay too much liquid LSD, enough to permanently remove them from anything resembling reality.

I'm not sure LSD works the way you think it does. Most adverse reactions resolve within 48 hours.

During one notable incident, eight partygoers assumed that a basin of white powdered anhydrous LSD was cocaine and ingested it nasally and orally, inhaling massive amounts of LSD (ie, up to several hundred times a typical recreational amount). Five went into coma and suffered vomiting, fever, and mild internal bleeding. Their serum LSD was 2.1-26 ng/ml, with 1000-7000 micrograms/100ml stomach contents. No psychological or physical abnormalities were noted a year later during a follow-up exam. A majority of the five continued to use LSD recreationally.

The complete article makes interesting reading and, of course, it's from San Francisco.
posted by meehawl at 2:27 PM on May 23, 2006

Besides the dosage issues, consider the method of delivery. Every delivery problem with a weaponized gas agent would be present with a gaseous hallucinogen -- wind patterns, dispersal, etc. Liquids? Foods? I guess you could put it in the water supply and in food, but what if your enemy doesn't drink or eat right away? Darts? Why not just shoot 'em, period?
posted by frogan at 3:53 PM on May 23, 2006

Read Acid Dreams - The Complete Social History of LSD: The CIA, the Sixties, and Beyond.

Good info on how the CIA investigated the uses of LSD. Some very crazy, crazy stuff, like secretly slipping it to each other without warning and then 'observing' the results.
posted by killThisKid at 8:24 AM on May 24, 2006

I'm not sure LSD works the way you think it does. Most adverse reactions resolve within 48 hours.


Thanks for qualifying that with "not sure" and "most". :)

I'm just reporting something I've seen.

I don't think it is a physiological thing as much as a mental thing. Some people just can't handle it. The article is very interesting, I must say. You can't tell me there aren't any "acid burnouts" out there tho. It's almost a cliche.

And I'm talking about a LOT more than "a couple of lines". A lot more. I hesitate to say too much more about this on a public forum.
posted by First Post at 11:44 PM on May 25, 2006