Running with GPS and avoiding animals
May 22, 2006 11:21 AM Subscribe
Will a GPS device help my running and what are the best weapons against unfriendly animals and dangerous humans?
I live in Fairbanks, AK. I run daily, mainly on Ft. Wainwright. There is only one path that has mile markers and unfortunately it extends past post, so I have to stop and show my I.D. to get back on.
There are some great trails on and off of post. I try to run 5 - 7 miles per go and am working on raising that to 15 miles. The problem is I don't know how far I run because I run on off-road trails. I can guess and probably be within .5 mile, but I want more accuracy. Also, I was temporarily lost the other day. I'd like to avoid that in the future.
I've heard that a GPS device will track my movement, including speed. Is it just a matter of turning it on and entering a start point? I run primarily in a wooded area. How will that affect GPS? Could someone give me a down and dirty on GPS?
Because I run in a wooded area and I'm in Alaska, there is always the chance of a moose or a bear (yes, moose are common here). There is also an area where people sometimes allow thier dogs to run lose. There are usually not many other runners around. Is there a mace or pepper spray that would be helpful if attacked by a human and small enough to be carried in my shorts' pocket? Is there anything that would stun an animal long enough for me to get away?
I live in Fairbanks, AK. I run daily, mainly on Ft. Wainwright. There is only one path that has mile markers and unfortunately it extends past post, so I have to stop and show my I.D. to get back on.
There are some great trails on and off of post. I try to run 5 - 7 miles per go and am working on raising that to 15 miles. The problem is I don't know how far I run because I run on off-road trails. I can guess and probably be within .5 mile, but I want more accuracy. Also, I was temporarily lost the other day. I'd like to avoid that in the future.
I've heard that a GPS device will track my movement, including speed. Is it just a matter of turning it on and entering a start point? I run primarily in a wooded area. How will that affect GPS? Could someone give me a down and dirty on GPS?
Because I run in a wooded area and I'm in Alaska, there is always the chance of a moose or a bear (yes, moose are common here). There is also an area where people sometimes allow thier dogs to run lose. There are usually not many other runners around. Is there a mace or pepper spray that would be helpful if attacked by a human and small enough to be carried in my shorts' pocket? Is there anything that would stun an animal long enough for me to get away?
I belong to a listserv for ultrarunners where GPSs are discussed every couple of months. I've never used one, but from what I understand they don't work all that well in wooded areas, there is a lot of dropping of the signal. It eventually gets picked up again, but at the expense of accurate distance measures. There are a couple of different brands (I guess Garmin and Timex are the main ones), and there are pros and cons. You could search the archives, which are located here, for GPS or Garmin and you would be able to read more than you probably want about them. (I'm not sure if you need to subscribe to search the archives, but you could and then drop it after you've gotten what you need.) I'm sure there must be a trail running list out there somewhere where this is discussed a lot too.
posted by OmieWise at 11:33 AM on May 22, 2006
posted by OmieWise at 11:33 AM on May 22, 2006
Response by poster: Thanks everyone. There are NO MAPS available of the running routes. Strange, but true.
posted by Juicylicious at 11:43 AM on May 22, 2006
posted by Juicylicious at 11:43 AM on May 22, 2006
Juicy - Get a topo map from the UGS and do some exporing, then, writing in your maps as you go. ;) Maybe you can publish the running map on base and find some other people to trail run with.
posted by SpecialK at 11:44 AM on May 22, 2006
posted by SpecialK at 11:44 AM on May 22, 2006
Some suggestions:
1.) If you have a mountain bike you can retrace your normal route with a cyclometer. The downside is you must re-ride every route. I've found cyclometers accurate to around 5%.
2.) Download the free Google Earth application and use the Measure Path tool. For this to work Google needs to have reasonably high-res imagery for your run. It does for most of Fairbanks, but possibly not Ft. Wainwright. This one is my preferred method.
3.) Use a pedometer. Not sure how accurate they are for running.
posted by justkevin at 11:53 AM on May 22, 2006
1.) If you have a mountain bike you can retrace your normal route with a cyclometer. The downside is you must re-ride every route. I've found cyclometers accurate to around 5%.
2.) Download the free Google Earth application and use the Measure Path tool. For this to work Google needs to have reasonably high-res imagery for your run. It does for most of Fairbanks, but possibly not Ft. Wainwright. This one is my preferred method.
3.) Use a pedometer. Not sure how accurate they are for running.
posted by justkevin at 11:53 AM on May 22, 2006
dflemingdotorg said it, bear repellent. Dangerous shit.
posted by puke & cry at 11:56 AM on May 22, 2006
posted by puke & cry at 11:56 AM on May 22, 2006
I third bear spray. My sister and her fiancee live out in Montana, and my brother-in-law-to-be takes bear spray with him on every hike/mountain-bike/walk he goes on. He says you absolutely need it in bear country, though as much for the 'big cats' as for the bears. And he almost had to use it on a moose last month.
(Apparently, Montana has Attack Moose.)
posted by Sprout the Vulgarian at 12:05 PM on May 22, 2006
(Apparently, Montana has Attack Moose.)
posted by Sprout the Vulgarian at 12:05 PM on May 22, 2006
I do not have personal experience with these devices (yet) but the Garmin Forerunner 205 and 305 (=205+heart rate monitor) are supposed to be quite good, even in woody areas. They are a vast improvement over earlier models and people are very enthusiastic about it, even if they are not perfect. You get a lot of data about your training speed and distance (total and per lap) and can put them in nice little graphs.
Here is a Forerunner 305 testing blog.
posted by davar at 12:10 PM on May 22, 2006
Here is a Forerunner 305 testing blog.
posted by davar at 12:10 PM on May 22, 2006
Gmap Pedometer is a really cool tool I've been using to determine the length of a given route. Switch it to satellite mode and try to find your off-road paths (I do some off-road running myself). Hit "start recording" and double click the map to start setting points. When you're done, it'll show you the length of the route and put mile markers along the way.
posted by knave at 12:44 PM on May 22, 2006
posted by knave at 12:44 PM on May 22, 2006
The SiRF chips in the new Garmin X series and the newer Forerunners work much better in tree cover. I'm not familiar with the Magellan GPS units as they are worse with OS X and Linux (really none of the available GPS units works well outside of Windows and the maps are all proprietary as well, ie. Magellan maps for Magellan, Garmin maps for Garmin, etc.).
I have an older GPSMap 60c which is good for hiking, but terrible in tree cover, especially when the trees are wet/snowy. My mother in law got one of the newer 60csx devices and had plenty of satellites where I had none.
posted by togdon at 12:58 PM on May 22, 2006
I have an older GPSMap 60c which is good for hiking, but terrible in tree cover, especially when the trees are wet/snowy. My mother in law got one of the newer 60csx devices and had plenty of satellites where I had none.
posted by togdon at 12:58 PM on May 22, 2006
The Garmin Forerunner series is awesome. I had a 301 which I loved and now have a 305Edge cycling one. The 205/305 series have an upgraded antenna which can work from inside a backpack. I can also sometimes get a signal near windows while inside. I don't know just how wooded you are talking about, but I have not had problems losing a signal in cities near tall buildings or under trees, just under highway overpasses and the like.
It is as simple as turning it on, letting it get a satellite fix and hitting start. You can make a course on your computer and download it to the Forerunner or set up interval workouts or race against your own previous workout. You should know that they do not have the detailed maps that you will see on dedicated GPS devices, just major roads and the ability to show you where you have gone and how to go back or meet up to your course. You can also upload your data for free to Motion Based where it will give you even more information abou you run and you can see other people's workouts in your area on the Trail Network and download them to Google Maps or upload them to your device. It's how I found new places to go bicycling after I moved. With the popularity of the Forerunner, Motion Based has been very slow lately but an upgrade has been promised and it should get better. Also check out their forums for more detailed information about the Forerunner.
If you are a bit of a gadget nut, this is for you. I personally enjoy downloading all the data after a workout and crunching the numbers but if you're really interested only in how far you've gone, then it is probably overkill and I would look into a pedometer instead.
posted by hindmost at 1:15 PM on May 22, 2006
It is as simple as turning it on, letting it get a satellite fix and hitting start. You can make a course on your computer and download it to the Forerunner or set up interval workouts or race against your own previous workout. You should know that they do not have the detailed maps that you will see on dedicated GPS devices, just major roads and the ability to show you where you have gone and how to go back or meet up to your course. You can also upload your data for free to Motion Based where it will give you even more information abou you run and you can see other people's workouts in your area on the Trail Network and download them to Google Maps or upload them to your device. It's how I found new places to go bicycling after I moved. With the popularity of the Forerunner, Motion Based has been very slow lately but an upgrade has been promised and it should get better. Also check out their forums for more detailed information about the Forerunner.
If you are a bit of a gadget nut, this is for you. I personally enjoy downloading all the data after a workout and crunching the numbers but if you're really interested only in how far you've gone, then it is probably overkill and I would look into a pedometer instead.
posted by hindmost at 1:15 PM on May 22, 2006
Response by poster: Don't you have to measure your stride to use a pedometer? My stride changes as I run, so I've always stayed away from pedometers.
Detailed Ft. Wainwright maps are not available on google maps.
I think that I go to one of the high end sports stores in town to look at a GPS (there is only one sport store in town).
posted by Juicylicious at 2:05 PM on May 22, 2006
Detailed Ft. Wainwright maps are not available on google maps.
I think that I go to one of the high end sports stores in town to look at a GPS (there is only one sport store in town).
posted by Juicylicious at 2:05 PM on May 22, 2006
I can't speak to the wooded area issue, but I know my Forerunner really helped my pacing when I first started running. It was much easier to push myself knowing exactly how much farther I had to go, how fast I was going, etc.
posted by shinynewnick at 2:36 PM on May 22, 2006
posted by shinynewnick at 2:36 PM on May 22, 2006
Don't you have to measure your stride to use a pedometer? My stride changes as I run, so I've always stayed away from pedometers.
The way to do this is to run a course of average rockiness/grade and known distance, counting your strides. Then divide to compute an average stride length, and set your mechanical pedometer to that. Next, calibrate the pedometer by running the course of known distance again, while wearing it, and seeing by how much it's off.
I think you'd be surprised by how easy and good the GPS-based solutions are, btw.
posted by ikkyu2 at 3:08 PM on May 22, 2006
The way to do this is to run a course of average rockiness/grade and known distance, counting your strides. Then divide to compute an average stride length, and set your mechanical pedometer to that. Next, calibrate the pedometer by running the course of known distance again, while wearing it, and seeing by how much it's off.
I think you'd be surprised by how easy and good the GPS-based solutions are, btw.
posted by ikkyu2 at 3:08 PM on May 22, 2006
Old-style pedometers merely count the number of steps you take and aren't necessarily that accurate as a result. However, there are new accelerometer-based pedometers which don't have that limitation. I use the Polar 625X myself, and am quite happy with it. It consists of a pod which you attach to the laces of one shoe and the watch/computer. I've only had to calibrate it once and doing so iis pretty straightforward. The only problem I've had with it is when running in urban areas the computer might get some interference from building alarm systems, but it doesn't sound like that would be a problem for you. The heart rate monitor functionality is great for training and monitoring your progress, too.
I don't have much advice on the large animal issue, though. The bears in San Francisco are a completely different beast altogether.
posted by ooga_booga at 3:46 PM on May 22, 2006
I don't have much advice on the large animal issue, though. The bears in San Francisco are a completely different beast altogether.
posted by ooga_booga at 3:46 PM on May 22, 2006
You go running in wooded areas in Alaska without having something in mind WHEN you run into a bear on the trail?
I've done plenty of hiking in Alaska, mostly south of Fairbanks, and I would never run anywhere up there that I didn't have at least a 50 yard line of site. No tall grasses or trees in the way and nowhere near a river or stream.
While walking through areas where I have less than 50 yards of vision I would yell (every 15-30 seconds) and clap loudly. Bear bells are worthless. Doing much less than this is asking for trouble.
The first time I went hiking in Alaska I paid my forty buck for one of the fogger pepper spray units; then I met my first bear. Just a small black bear about the size of a very, very large dog. It didn't give half of fuck about the fact that I existed or what I was doing but its physical mass did quickly demonstrate to me that if it had decided that it wanted to hurt me, that pepper spray would have done nothing.
The next time I went hiking in Alaska, 2 years later, I brought a Mossberg 500 12 gauge shotgun loaded with slugs. I also continued with my yelling and clapping. Of course, the gun weighs about 9 lbs when loaded and wouldn't be very easy to run with. A pistol, at least a .44 magnum of some sort, would be easier to run with but much harder to learn how to use.
If you are not willing to learn how to use and carry a firearm and educate yourself about bear behavior (you respond differently to a black bear than you do to a brown bear, depending on the situation) you should not run in wooded areas in Alaska.
As far as moose go, if a big one decides it wants you, even if you are armed, you're fucked. Stay the hell away from them. When you get inside their magic circle they will turn their heads towards you and fix you with a look. They are telling you that you are too close to them and it is time for you to leave. (it usually seems to be about 15-20 yards) They can also move through heavy brush almost silently, so don't expect to hear them approaching you.
When running, your biggest danger is the fact that eventually you are going to come across a situation in which you surprise a moose or a bear by suddenly appearing around a tree or a bend that is far too close for their liking. The best way to avoid this is to make as much noise as you can by yelling, clapping loudly or carrying a caustically loud radio. I really would not recommend running in a wooded area, you're just asking for trouble whether you are armed or not. Find some open fields or run in town because it is only a matter of time before you land yourself in a situation you don't want to be in.
posted by 517 at 7:59 PM on May 22, 2006
I've done plenty of hiking in Alaska, mostly south of Fairbanks, and I would never run anywhere up there that I didn't have at least a 50 yard line of site. No tall grasses or trees in the way and nowhere near a river or stream.
While walking through areas where I have less than 50 yards of vision I would yell (every 15-30 seconds) and clap loudly. Bear bells are worthless. Doing much less than this is asking for trouble.
The first time I went hiking in Alaska I paid my forty buck for one of the fogger pepper spray units; then I met my first bear. Just a small black bear about the size of a very, very large dog. It didn't give half of fuck about the fact that I existed or what I was doing but its physical mass did quickly demonstrate to me that if it had decided that it wanted to hurt me, that pepper spray would have done nothing.
The next time I went hiking in Alaska, 2 years later, I brought a Mossberg 500 12 gauge shotgun loaded with slugs. I also continued with my yelling and clapping. Of course, the gun weighs about 9 lbs when loaded and wouldn't be very easy to run with. A pistol, at least a .44 magnum of some sort, would be easier to run with but much harder to learn how to use.
If you are not willing to learn how to use and carry a firearm and educate yourself about bear behavior (you respond differently to a black bear than you do to a brown bear, depending on the situation) you should not run in wooded areas in Alaska.
As far as moose go, if a big one decides it wants you, even if you are armed, you're fucked. Stay the hell away from them. When you get inside their magic circle they will turn their heads towards you and fix you with a look. They are telling you that you are too close to them and it is time for you to leave. (it usually seems to be about 15-20 yards) They can also move through heavy brush almost silently, so don't expect to hear them approaching you.
When running, your biggest danger is the fact that eventually you are going to come across a situation in which you surprise a moose or a bear by suddenly appearing around a tree or a bend that is far too close for their liking. The best way to avoid this is to make as much noise as you can by yelling, clapping loudly or carrying a caustically loud radio. I really would not recommend running in a wooded area, you're just asking for trouble whether you are armed or not. Find some open fields or run in town because it is only a matter of time before you land yourself in a situation you don't want to be in.
posted by 517 at 7:59 PM on May 22, 2006
That new Nike thing is cool and presumably measures distance. They also made a stand-alone version a few years ago. (It measures your distance by dead reckoning, using accelerometers and magic.)
posted by smackfu at 4:56 PM on May 23, 2006
posted by smackfu at 4:56 PM on May 23, 2006
Don't know if it has GPS (doubt it for $29) but more on the Nike thing here.
posted by Frank Grimes at 5:53 PM on May 23, 2006
posted by Frank Grimes at 5:53 PM on May 23, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
If you live on an army base, I think you've got a lot of resources for small, concealable anti-personell or animal weapons research. ;) But yes, there's plenty of types of mace and/or pepper spray that you can carry ... smaller than the GPS unit ... that will make an animal or human think twice about you. And if you're untrained in their use, there's also a lot of ways you can incapacitate yourself and be at the animal's (both of the wild and human variety) mercy.
posted by SpecialK at 11:31 AM on May 22, 2006