Brushing teeth with no toothpaste?
December 18, 2024 11:54 PM
How much benefit is there in brushing teeth with a fancy electric toothbrush (Oral B Io10 Electric Toothbrush) but no toothpaste? eg if brushing with a fancy electric toothbrush plus toothpaste is 100% benefit, what % benefit is brushing with a fancy electric toothbrush and no toothpaste?
I have tried hundreds of different toothpastes, including SLS-free toothpastes and dentist-recommended toothpastes, and they all give me a very painful rash on my face, neck, hands, wrists. (Not inside my mouth.)
At this point I am wondering what the benefits are of
a) brushing with just water and a fancy electric toothbrush
b) brushing with just water, salt, and a fancy electric toothbrush.
I have tried hundreds of different toothpastes, including SLS-free toothpastes and dentist-recommended toothpastes, and they all give me a very painful rash on my face, neck, hands, wrists. (Not inside my mouth.)
At this point I am wondering what the benefits are of
a) brushing with just water and a fancy electric toothbrush
b) brushing with just water, salt, and a fancy electric toothbrush.
I’ve had this discussion with my dental hygienist which was a continuation of questions I’d asked my uncle who was a dentist for many decades. Both of them concurred that a lot of the benefit of tooth brushing is from the gentle abrasion of the gums and tooth enamel.
Toothpaste contains tiny grit that helps manually scrub away buildup and bacteria, as well as substances that can combat bad breath and ph imbalances in the mouth, plus fluoride and sometimes other stuff in prescription formulations. But a soft bristle brush and water is better than nothing, because manually removing the buildup on your teeth is vital for keeping on top of the formation of calculus. Toothpaste helps us be better at brushing our teeth more efficiently and thoroughly, because the small grit doubles down on that manual scrubbing, gets into crevices a bristle can’t fit, and the aforementioned chemical benefits. But in a pinch or if you have hygiene challenges because of sensory stuff or mobility, mouth washes and water flossing can get you most of the way there.
I wonder, in your case, if the rash is caused by the physical friction though? If it’s so consistent with all the different toothpastes you’ve tried, wouldn’t the common denominator be the brushing itself? Are you sensitive to skin irritation elsewhere? For example, I have the most horrendous bright red scratches if I so much as gently scratch an itch - they show up maybe ten minutes after scratching and go away maybe half an hour after that. Turns out it’s a common benign skin condition called dermatographia. I didn’t notice I’d developed this issue in my thirties until I got up out of a hot bed on a summer night and saw my chest in the mirror, seemingly covered in werewolf marks. I’d been scratching at my neck and chest in my sleep from how hot I had gotten. Obviously this freaked me out! But it went away, and then I realized I could replicate it. So I guess my question for you is, how long does your rash last? Once it visibly clears up do you have lasting effects like damaged skin or increased sensitivity? If it’s just your lips, but the inside of your mouth is fine, have you tried applying a thick occlusive like Vaseline before brushing and then wiping it off after you’ve rinsed?
posted by Mizu at 3:13 AM on December 19
Toothpaste contains tiny grit that helps manually scrub away buildup and bacteria, as well as substances that can combat bad breath and ph imbalances in the mouth, plus fluoride and sometimes other stuff in prescription formulations. But a soft bristle brush and water is better than nothing, because manually removing the buildup on your teeth is vital for keeping on top of the formation of calculus. Toothpaste helps us be better at brushing our teeth more efficiently and thoroughly, because the small grit doubles down on that manual scrubbing, gets into crevices a bristle can’t fit, and the aforementioned chemical benefits. But in a pinch or if you have hygiene challenges because of sensory stuff or mobility, mouth washes and water flossing can get you most of the way there.
I wonder, in your case, if the rash is caused by the physical friction though? If it’s so consistent with all the different toothpastes you’ve tried, wouldn’t the common denominator be the brushing itself? Are you sensitive to skin irritation elsewhere? For example, I have the most horrendous bright red scratches if I so much as gently scratch an itch - they show up maybe ten minutes after scratching and go away maybe half an hour after that. Turns out it’s a common benign skin condition called dermatographia. I didn’t notice I’d developed this issue in my thirties until I got up out of a hot bed on a summer night and saw my chest in the mirror, seemingly covered in werewolf marks. I’d been scratching at my neck and chest in my sleep from how hot I had gotten. Obviously this freaked me out! But it went away, and then I realized I could replicate it. So I guess my question for you is, how long does your rash last? Once it visibly clears up do you have lasting effects like damaged skin or increased sensitivity? If it’s just your lips, but the inside of your mouth is fine, have you tried applying a thick occlusive like Vaseline before brushing and then wiping it off after you’ve rinsed?
posted by Mizu at 3:13 AM on December 19
Have you tried dental soap? No glycerine to block remineralization. Also, no abrasive, but at least it probably carries away the removed plaque.
Here's what I use. One bar lasts for months.
posted by H21 at 4:01 AM on December 19
Here's what I use. One bar lasts for months.
posted by H21 at 4:01 AM on December 19
Sometimes I brush with just plaque/cavity rinse. I get the clean teeth feeling without the sore gums. Might give it a whirl.
posted by chasles at 4:40 AM on December 19
posted by chasles at 4:40 AM on December 19
Is the common denominator fluoride, or have the hundreds you’ve tried included non-fluoride toothpastes? My impression of non-fluoride toothpastes sold in the US is that they’re no better for dental health than water, but outside the US, there are mainstream toothpastes with novamin instead of fluoride. There have been studies showing novamin works better than fluoride, but it’s not approved in the US. Sensodyne with novamin is a (the?) top brand.
posted by daisyace at 5:07 AM on December 19
posted by daisyace at 5:07 AM on December 19
I'm a doctor
Brushing is for removing food residue and bacteria, and brushing dry or with water goes a long way here.
Toothpaste is 85% a delivery device for flouride, which prevents tooth decay by bolstering the acid-resistant calcium component of enamel. Flouride doesn't do anything to make brushing any better at removing food residue or bacteria
Toothpaste is 15% an aid to brushing, as follows.it contains surfectants, foaming agents, and finer abrasives than the bristles of a toothbrush. These reduce friction, and enlarge the surface area of active ingredients (such as whitening or anti-tartar agents) to include the gum line, nooks and crannies on the surface of molars, and areas between the teeth.
Last, toothpaste prevents bad breath, which let's be honest is the only reason to use it in the morning
Brushing without toothpaste works great. Twice a day for at least two minutes...
posted by BadgerDoctor at 5:07 AM on December 19
Brushing is for removing food residue and bacteria, and brushing dry or with water goes a long way here.
Toothpaste is 85% a delivery device for flouride, which prevents tooth decay by bolstering the acid-resistant calcium component of enamel. Flouride doesn't do anything to make brushing any better at removing food residue or bacteria
Toothpaste is 15% an aid to brushing, as follows.it contains surfectants, foaming agents, and finer abrasives than the bristles of a toothbrush. These reduce friction, and enlarge the surface area of active ingredients (such as whitening or anti-tartar agents) to include the gum line, nooks and crannies on the surface of molars, and areas between the teeth.
Last, toothpaste prevents bad breath, which let's be honest is the only reason to use it in the morning
Brushing without toothpaste works great. Twice a day for at least two minutes...
posted by BadgerDoctor at 5:07 AM on December 19
Most of the good from brushing your teeth is from the mechanical action. Go ahead and go toothpaste free.
I know you're in another country than me, so I'm not going to recommend specific products, especially since it seems you've tried plenty. If you want to brush with something, use a little baking soda for the abrasion (salt is aggressive, unless it's what your dentist is recommending). If you want the fluoride, try a fluoride rinse.
My only other thought would be to try a toothpaste formulated for toddlers, if you haven't already. They don't put detergents in them because early brushers don't know how to spit very well and they need to be swallow safe. One less irritant, maybe. Good luck!
posted by phunniemee at 5:11 AM on December 19
I know you're in another country than me, so I'm not going to recommend specific products, especially since it seems you've tried plenty. If you want to brush with something, use a little baking soda for the abrasion (salt is aggressive, unless it's what your dentist is recommending). If you want the fluoride, try a fluoride rinse.
My only other thought would be to try a toothpaste formulated for toddlers, if you haven't already. They don't put detergents in them because early brushers don't know how to spit very well and they need to be swallow safe. One less irritant, maybe. Good luck!
posted by phunniemee at 5:11 AM on December 19
I was at one point a microbial ecologist, or at least one in training. Nthing that the mechanical action of brushing will get you the vast majority of the benefit. The reason for this is that there is an ecological succession that occurs in your mouth that takes 24 hours or so to set up, at which point a biofilm is established that the bacteria that are really bad for your teeth need to do their thing. If you disrupt that biofilm formation every 12 hours or so with mechanical action, then the clock is reset and the bad bacteria can never really do their thing.
posted by rockindata at 6:00 AM on December 19
posted by rockindata at 6:00 AM on December 19
I had sensory issues as a kid that meant I couldn’t tolerate toothpaste. My dentist told my parents to have me brush then do a fluoride rinse every morning and evening and that seems to have worked out fine during those years. (I started being able to tolerate toothpaste in my later teen years.)
posted by BlahLaLa at 6:08 AM on December 19
posted by BlahLaLa at 6:08 AM on December 19
Counterpoint, I get a lot of tartar and switched toothpastes to a SLS free one that wasn't a specific tartar control paste. My hygienist could tell that either I switched pastes of stopped brushing as regularly and the cleaning took a bit longer. I'm back to a tartar control Crest.
posted by advicepig at 6:27 AM on December 19
posted by advicepig at 6:27 AM on December 19
I wonder, in your case, if the rash is caused by the physical friction though? If it’s so consistent with all the different toothpastes you’ve tried, wouldn’t the common denominator be the brushing itself?
No, it's the toothpaste -
there is zero rash inside my mouth, but significant rash on any skin outside my mouth that touches toothpaste
eg face/chin/throat/hands/wrists
eg if I wear gloves, my hands are okay but my wrist just above my hands gets a rash
if I don't wear gloves, both my hands and my wrists get a rash
or if I brush my teeth in the shower, my inner thighs get a rash from toothpaste getting washed down my body.
I have ultra-sensitive skin with multiple allergist-diagnosed allergies and intolerances.
It's definitely the toothpaste, because if I skip brushing my teeth the rash goes away and comes back the moment I brush my teeth.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 6:53 AM on December 19
No, it's the toothpaste -
there is zero rash inside my mouth, but significant rash on any skin outside my mouth that touches toothpaste
eg face/chin/throat/hands/wrists
eg if I wear gloves, my hands are okay but my wrist just above my hands gets a rash
if I don't wear gloves, both my hands and my wrists get a rash
or if I brush my teeth in the shower, my inner thighs get a rash from toothpaste getting washed down my body.
I have ultra-sensitive skin with multiple allergist-diagnosed allergies and intolerances.
It's definitely the toothpaste, because if I skip brushing my teeth the rash goes away and comes back the moment I brush my teeth.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 6:53 AM on December 19
You could try brushing your teeth with a substance other than toothpaste. I haven't tried any of these methods.
posted by Dr. Wu at 7:30 AM on December 19
posted by Dr. Wu at 7:30 AM on December 19
Frankly, brushing without toothpaste is probably better than just skipping it altogether.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:24 AM on December 19
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:24 AM on December 19
Brushing with baking soda, perhaps? And using a fluoride rinse?
posted by maryellenreads at 10:24 AM on December 19
posted by maryellenreads at 10:24 AM on December 19
they all give me a very painful rash on my face, neck, hands, wrists. (Not inside my mouth.)
Forgive me if I'm missing something, but why is toothpaste getting on your wrists, hands, neck, or anywhere on your face outside of maybe a millimeter or two beyond your lips? If you don't mind, I'd like to focus on the problem before the problem; that is, if the paste is causing a rash because it's getting on places toothpaste doesn't typically get (inner mouth and lips), how about changing your method so it doesn't get there in the first place?
I use an electric toothbrush (or a manual one when traveling) with toothpaste and my hands/wrists don't get wet, let alone toothpaste-y, nor have I ever gotten toothpaste on my neck. (If I tried to have a conversation with someone while brushing my teeth, I can imagine getting toothpaste on my chin while talking, but otherwise, the toothpaste doesn't really get beyond my lips. The last thing I do before I walk out the door to go to work is brush my teeth, so I already have a full face of cosmetics (sans lipstick), and if I got my face/neck wet, I'd be a mess and all my foundation would wash off!
As the toothpaste isn't bothering your inner mouth, perhaps you could explore how you're brushing your teeth to keep it from getting where it ought not go? I can only guess as to the mechanism by which you're getting wet and paste-y. Too much paste? It should only be the size of a small pea/large caper. Are you opening your mouth too wide? (I brush with my mouth mostly closed.) Are you positioned with your face over the sink so any spittle falls out of your mouth directly into the sink, not down your face? If your toothbrush is getting wet beyond the neck/head of the brush, all the way up the handle, so that your hand gets wet and toothpaste-y/foamy, I think it's your method, rather than the the toothpaste, that you might want to change first.
You might want to illustrate your tooth-brushing routine to your hygienist. Most people brush their teeth wrong (in a wide variety of wrongness), and the "right" way (according the the tooth people) involves much smaller, more distinct, and decidedly less messy methods. Your hygienist may be able to give you better pointers than mine to see how your non-mouth parts are getting wet, let alone toothpaste-y.
Baking soda is good for emergency situations to assist in removing particles from the teeth, but the abrasiveness that allows it to do that is relatively rough on the enamel, and my dental advisors do not recommend it long-term.
Finally, important fluoride notwithstanding, brushing with only water would be like "washing" your body with only water. It works in an emergency, but one's breath/body would not smell very nice.
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 3:53 PM on December 19
Forgive me if I'm missing something, but why is toothpaste getting on your wrists, hands, neck, or anywhere on your face outside of maybe a millimeter or two beyond your lips? If you don't mind, I'd like to focus on the problem before the problem; that is, if the paste is causing a rash because it's getting on places toothpaste doesn't typically get (inner mouth and lips), how about changing your method so it doesn't get there in the first place?
I use an electric toothbrush (or a manual one when traveling) with toothpaste and my hands/wrists don't get wet, let alone toothpaste-y, nor have I ever gotten toothpaste on my neck. (If I tried to have a conversation with someone while brushing my teeth, I can imagine getting toothpaste on my chin while talking, but otherwise, the toothpaste doesn't really get beyond my lips. The last thing I do before I walk out the door to go to work is brush my teeth, so I already have a full face of cosmetics (sans lipstick), and if I got my face/neck wet, I'd be a mess and all my foundation would wash off!
As the toothpaste isn't bothering your inner mouth, perhaps you could explore how you're brushing your teeth to keep it from getting where it ought not go? I can only guess as to the mechanism by which you're getting wet and paste-y. Too much paste? It should only be the size of a small pea/large caper. Are you opening your mouth too wide? (I brush with my mouth mostly closed.) Are you positioned with your face over the sink so any spittle falls out of your mouth directly into the sink, not down your face? If your toothbrush is getting wet beyond the neck/head of the brush, all the way up the handle, so that your hand gets wet and toothpaste-y/foamy, I think it's your method, rather than the the toothpaste, that you might want to change first.
You might want to illustrate your tooth-brushing routine to your hygienist. Most people brush their teeth wrong (in a wide variety of wrongness), and the "right" way (according the the tooth people) involves much smaller, more distinct, and decidedly less messy methods. Your hygienist may be able to give you better pointers than mine to see how your non-mouth parts are getting wet, let alone toothpaste-y.
Baking soda is good for emergency situations to assist in removing particles from the teeth, but the abrasiveness that allows it to do that is relatively rough on the enamel, and my dental advisors do not recommend it long-term.
Finally, important fluoride notwithstanding, brushing with only water would be like "washing" your body with only water. It works in an emergency, but one's breath/body would not smell very nice.
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 3:53 PM on December 19
You'll get most of the benefit from the mechanical action of brushing. There are a lot of not-at-all toothpaste options too: activated charcoal, coconut oil, baking soda and a wide variety of tooth brushing powders (mine is salt and clay and hydroxyapatite).
posted by so fucking future at 4:23 PM on December 19
posted by so fucking future at 4:23 PM on December 19
Don't we get enough fluoride in our water for OP (Australian) not to worry about adding more?
posted by b33j at 4:55 PM on December 19
posted by b33j at 4:55 PM on December 19
Forgive me if I'm missing something, but why is toothpaste getting on your wrists, hands, neck, or anywhere on your face outside of maybe a millimeter or two beyond your lips?
I have a deviated septum and breathe through my mouth. I have to brush with my mouth wide open because otherwise
a) I feel like I am suffocating;
b) I swallow lots of toothpaste, which can cause serious pain for my Irritable Bowel Syndrome;
c) My gag reflex can get triggered.
I brush sitting down (bolt upright) in a shower chair in front of the bathroom basin/bathroom sink, because I can't stand up for the amount of time that it takes to brush my teeth. I can't lean over the basin the whole time while brushing, but I intermittently bend down and spit into the basin.
I forgot to mention that I brush wearing a disposable absorbent bib that goes from my collarbone to my belly button, because otherwise my breasts and chest get covered with toothpaste as well.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 9:02 PM on December 19
I have a deviated septum and breathe through my mouth. I have to brush with my mouth wide open because otherwise
a) I feel like I am suffocating;
b) I swallow lots of toothpaste, which can cause serious pain for my Irritable Bowel Syndrome;
c) My gag reflex can get triggered.
I brush sitting down (bolt upright) in a shower chair in front of the bathroom basin/bathroom sink, because I can't stand up for the amount of time that it takes to brush my teeth. I can't lean over the basin the whole time while brushing, but I intermittently bend down and spit into the basin.
I forgot to mention that I brush wearing a disposable absorbent bib that goes from my collarbone to my belly button, because otherwise my breasts and chest get covered with toothpaste as well.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 9:02 PM on December 19
Goodness, I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be to have tried so many toothpastes and be dealing with such a complicated challenge every single day. Per your updates I say absolutely go for brushing without toothpaste and see how it goes, or maybe a little baking soda if your skin won’t react to it, for oral ph reasons.
Maybe you can work out a deal with your dentist to come in for more regular maintenance cleanings. If you can swish, gargle, and spit without getting liquid outside of your mouth there are many different mouth washes that can help with minor issues like bad breath or fluoride if that’s a concern for you. And if you can’t do mouth washes, maybe investigate toothbrushes with suction, a product I just discovered exists because of your question. Maybe just regularly chewing xylitol gum could help too.
But it sounds like the problems toothpaste cause you far outweigh the possible benefits of its use. Your dentist should be understanding of this and work with you to help develop alternative oral hygiene routines.
posted by Mizu at 11:05 PM on December 19
Maybe you can work out a deal with your dentist to come in for more regular maintenance cleanings. If you can swish, gargle, and spit without getting liquid outside of your mouth there are many different mouth washes that can help with minor issues like bad breath or fluoride if that’s a concern for you. And if you can’t do mouth washes, maybe investigate toothbrushes with suction, a product I just discovered exists because of your question. Maybe just regularly chewing xylitol gum could help too.
But it sounds like the problems toothpaste cause you far outweigh the possible benefits of its use. Your dentist should be understanding of this and work with you to help develop alternative oral hygiene routines.
posted by Mizu at 11:05 PM on December 19
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posted by inexorably_forward at 1:05 AM on December 19