Need help with old age crisis
August 27, 2024 7:31 AM Subscribe
As I amble towards my seventh decade, I am feeling sad and trapped. I still don’t feel at home in the country I live in to help my grandchildren and my daughter. To be fair, I did not feel at home when I lived in the US far away from them. I am sad about not having the friends I want nor the community I need.
Despite past AskMe questions, I still don’t really feel a sense of meaning when it comes to my life. And maybe I’m not gonna get one. I am working on all the things, but the timeframe in which to make things better is getting shorter and shorter.
Dearest hive mind, have you faced a similar situation as you have grown older? Were you able to resolve it? I am looking for a therapist. In the meantime, please share anything that you found helpful. Thanks!
Despite past AskMe questions, I still don’t really feel a sense of meaning when it comes to my life. And maybe I’m not gonna get one. I am working on all the things, but the timeframe in which to make things better is getting shorter and shorter.
Dearest hive mind, have you faced a similar situation as you have grown older? Were you able to resolve it? I am looking for a therapist. In the meantime, please share anything that you found helpful. Thanks!
I feel like I have recommended this here before but Irvin Yalom's Staring at the Sun--a book about existential therapy intended for general readership, not therapists in particular--talks a lot about making meaning in the face of a finite path. I wonder if it might be of interest/of use.
posted by less-of-course at 7:48 AM on August 27 [8 favorites]
posted by less-of-course at 7:48 AM on August 27 [8 favorites]
In finding home and community where you are, you may like,” This is Where You Belong.”
posted by raccoon409 at 8:26 AM on August 27 [3 favorites]
posted by raccoon409 at 8:26 AM on August 27 [3 favorites]
You already write, and imo you write extremely well, but have you looked into writing classes or groups in Sweden? You could do something that's at least partly online, like Esmé Weijun Wang's writing school, but I think it would be really nice to get into something that's in person. When my father retired, I persuaded him to take a memoir class. His classmates were largely his age and had all kinds of reasons for taking the course, ranging to creating something to give their grandchildren to checking off "write a book" on their bucket list. But going to a couple of readings they did, it struck me that some of them were using writing to really cast light on things that had happened in the past, even decades earlier.
Again, you don't need to start writing, you already write, but I think it could be really cool for you to have an audience. There is something magic about reading your work to a group of people and getting responses.
posted by BibiRose at 9:00 AM on August 27 [9 favorites]
Again, you don't need to start writing, you already write, but I think it could be really cool for you to have an audience. There is something magic about reading your work to a group of people and getting responses.
posted by BibiRose at 9:00 AM on August 27 [9 favorites]
I'm getting closer to 70 as well.
And I have also lost any sense of purpose. I have accomplished all I ever wanted to do once I gave up on my silly 18-years-old dreams. I have provided for my family, and know they will be taken care of, regardless of what I do.
But it is certainly hard to think that I will find some other purpose. No one is going to hire me for much of anything, I'm not particularly talented at anything. Sucks.
So I can offer no help, but know you are not alone in this.
posted by Windopaene at 9:43 AM on August 27 [10 favorites]
And I have also lost any sense of purpose. I have accomplished all I ever wanted to do once I gave up on my silly 18-years-old dreams. I have provided for my family, and know they will be taken care of, regardless of what I do.
But it is certainly hard to think that I will find some other purpose. No one is going to hire me for much of anything, I'm not particularly talented at anything. Sucks.
So I can offer no help, but know you are not alone in this.
posted by Windopaene at 9:43 AM on August 27 [10 favorites]
77 here... Generally optimist since forever. I still put in a few hours at my craft...jewelry design, which helps...Do you have any sort of serious religious faith. Not the trendy ones.Long ago in my 20s I felt this life on earth was very temporary and actually not that important...Be good, help people...all those basic lessons we learned in school.
posted by Czjewel at 9:55 AM on August 27 [3 favorites]
posted by Czjewel at 9:55 AM on August 27 [3 favorites]
I'm approaching 75 and have been retired for 10 years. Fortunately, as far as finding community, I've lived in the sane area for for most of my adult life, plus my children are here. As an artist/crafter, I'm always creating things and get joy from the act of creation. Also, pre-covid I volunteered at Stitch Buffalo, a "textile art center committed to empowering refugee and immigrant women through the sale of their handcrafted goods, inspiring creativity and inclusion through community education, and stewarding the environment through the re-use of textile supplies." It was an opportunity to connect with people who share my interests while giving back to my community.
I suggest you make a list of your interests—for instance, reading, hiking, sculpting, swimming, animal welfare, etc.—and look for local groups that reflect your interests or volunteer opportunities. This will occupy your time and provide the chance to meet and develop relationships with people in your community.
posted by Scout405 at 10:03 AM on August 27 [6 favorites]
I suggest you make a list of your interests—for instance, reading, hiking, sculpting, swimming, animal welfare, etc.—and look for local groups that reflect your interests or volunteer opportunities. This will occupy your time and provide the chance to meet and develop relationships with people in your community.
posted by Scout405 at 10:03 AM on August 27 [6 favorites]
A while back someone asked here about what's the point of any of this. And I posted this piece by Kurt Vonnegut saying “We are here on Earth to fart around, and don’t let anybody tell you any different.”
I was lucky enough to attend attend a talk by him in the late 90s, and he told the same story, very similar to the one recorded here. (14 min video).
Maybe it helps. I am a few decades behind you in age, but to paraphrase They Might Be Giants We are all older than we've ever been before, and now we're even older! It may sound scary, but it helps me to laugh about it.
posted by SaltySalticid at 10:15 AM on August 27 [10 favorites]
I was lucky enough to attend attend a talk by him in the late 90s, and he told the same story, very similar to the one recorded here. (14 min video).
Maybe it helps. I am a few decades behind you in age, but to paraphrase They Might Be Giants We are all older than we've ever been before, and now we're even older! It may sound scary, but it helps me to laugh about it.
posted by SaltySalticid at 10:15 AM on August 27 [10 favorites]
When I was in Berlin, I found an weekly portrait group that got together to practice their English. Is there something like that, that you could do or start in a local park?
posted by Art_Pot at 10:20 AM on August 27 [1 favorite]
posted by Art_Pot at 10:20 AM on August 27 [1 favorite]
Kinda curious about your actual age. Ambling towards your seventh decade would make you late 50s, though several folks seem to be interpreting it differently.
posted by mpark at 10:42 AM on August 27 [7 favorites]
posted by mpark at 10:42 AM on August 27 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: A person between 70 and 79 is called a septuagenarian. I am not yet a septuagenarian but I will be soon enough.
posted by Bella Donna at 11:05 AM on August 27 [1 favorite]
posted by Bella Donna at 11:05 AM on August 27 [1 favorite]
"And now you're older still..."
Which puts things into perspective.
Also, if we are dropping music references: "Such a long long time to be gone, and a short time to be there..."
Try to dive into anything you still like. Lean into it. It may not be anything, but it may inspire you. Can you tell this has come up in a few of my recent therapy sessions?
Champion the things you love, as best as you are able.
posted by Windopaene at 11:06 AM on August 27 [1 favorite]
Which puts things into perspective.
Also, if we are dropping music references: "Such a long long time to be gone, and a short time to be there..."
Try to dive into anything you still like. Lean into it. It may not be anything, but it may inspire you. Can you tell this has come up in a few of my recent therapy sessions?
Champion the things you love, as best as you are able.
posted by Windopaene at 11:06 AM on August 27 [1 favorite]
I found taking the rheti personality test really helpful in understanding what my personality actually wants and what makes it happy. It was really true! Then I know the situations in which to place myself so I’ll feel intrinsically satisfied.
As for never feeling home, ooof I feel you. Having moved lots of places I really wanted to go home but never feeling like I was home when I got there, nor was any new place “it”. Surprisingly what helped was going back to my very childhood home and retracing my childhood steps as an adult, walking to school and corner store and feeling into the neighborhood with adult eyes. Also, returning to the prairie landscape and feeling the land, the changelessness of the hay bales every year those weird round spirals still dotting the flat farms. I took a small stone back from that trip for my connection to the land. I’ve heard it said the landscape upon which we grow up really imprints on us, the types of bugs birds and flowers that are there and when I heard robins again I felt it too.
The thing is we come from the earth and we’re back to the earth so quickly. It is said when the Buddha attained enlightenment he knew there was no possible way to express fully what he had seen, no way to prove it, no one to share it with, and so he touched the ground and called upon the earth to be his witness.
If that’s helpful to you to consider then maybe find a way to have the earth be your witness whatever that means to you.
As for community, as my sister said, “any time you’ve moved to a new place you have to whore yourself out a little.” Meaning, you have to just say yes to a lot of stuff, be the initiator/organizer even if you hate it, be the chatty version of yourself and so on. Make it easy for others to connect to you. It really does take time. I don’t know if there’s a language barrier for you in the new area but volunteer to teach English? Take language classes? If the grandkids are young, use them to connect with people they’re great ice breakers. Sometimes when I feel depressed it’s because I’m standing in the doorway of what I want to do, but not going int; I’m listening to all the reasons that say “why bother” and the turning point of the depression is to stare into the void of why bother and decide to bother just because I want to and that’s enough.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:10 PM on August 27 [16 favorites]
As for never feeling home, ooof I feel you. Having moved lots of places I really wanted to go home but never feeling like I was home when I got there, nor was any new place “it”. Surprisingly what helped was going back to my very childhood home and retracing my childhood steps as an adult, walking to school and corner store and feeling into the neighborhood with adult eyes. Also, returning to the prairie landscape and feeling the land, the changelessness of the hay bales every year those weird round spirals still dotting the flat farms. I took a small stone back from that trip for my connection to the land. I’ve heard it said the landscape upon which we grow up really imprints on us, the types of bugs birds and flowers that are there and when I heard robins again I felt it too.
The thing is we come from the earth and we’re back to the earth so quickly. It is said when the Buddha attained enlightenment he knew there was no possible way to express fully what he had seen, no way to prove it, no one to share it with, and so he touched the ground and called upon the earth to be his witness.
If that’s helpful to you to consider then maybe find a way to have the earth be your witness whatever that means to you.
As for community, as my sister said, “any time you’ve moved to a new place you have to whore yourself out a little.” Meaning, you have to just say yes to a lot of stuff, be the initiator/organizer even if you hate it, be the chatty version of yourself and so on. Make it easy for others to connect to you. It really does take time. I don’t know if there’s a language barrier for you in the new area but volunteer to teach English? Take language classes? If the grandkids are young, use them to connect with people they’re great ice breakers. Sometimes when I feel depressed it’s because I’m standing in the doorway of what I want to do, but not going int; I’m listening to all the reasons that say “why bother” and the turning point of the depression is to stare into the void of why bother and decide to bother just because I want to and that’s enough.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:10 PM on August 27 [16 favorites]
I'm 73 and widowed; I think many of us are in this situation, and it is hard. By design, I live near my adult child, their spouse and my grandchild, in a city I love, and I planned it this way, but that isn't enough and shouldn't be.
Volunteering to help and making myself useful has been essential to building community. I have tried a number of times with different organizations, and it's always helpful, though it always takes time to assimilate into. Any new community involves the "social entry" stage, and that can take months or even years. We get impatient with having to go through it yet again as we get older, but there aren't a lot of short-cuts. People have to get to know me, and I them, before I am fully a member of any group.
Another thing that has helped is taking classes, as others have said. I tried different places before I landed on a school that suited me, and that took some months. The first outfit I tried, I could have taught both classes I ended up taking :), and it was also designed for older learners, which means everyone was committed to being part of a community to a point that I felt a little claustrophobic. The second outfit, I also could have taught the class, but it was low key and accepting so it didn't matter. (The problem is I have specific interests and have pursued them all my life, so I'm rarely a novice in the things that I want to do).
I have found I don't like doing what many of my acquaintances in the same situation do, which is strike up provisional friendships and then go to concerts and plays together. I have asthma, still mask, and don't want to catch COVID; also, for personality reasons, I am not a "just hang out" kind of person and never have been. I like having some kind of mission.
posted by Peach at 1:15 PM on August 27 [14 favorites]
Volunteering to help and making myself useful has been essential to building community. I have tried a number of times with different organizations, and it's always helpful, though it always takes time to assimilate into. Any new community involves the "social entry" stage, and that can take months or even years. We get impatient with having to go through it yet again as we get older, but there aren't a lot of short-cuts. People have to get to know me, and I them, before I am fully a member of any group.
Another thing that has helped is taking classes, as others have said. I tried different places before I landed on a school that suited me, and that took some months. The first outfit I tried, I could have taught both classes I ended up taking :), and it was also designed for older learners, which means everyone was committed to being part of a community to a point that I felt a little claustrophobic. The second outfit, I also could have taught the class, but it was low key and accepting so it didn't matter. (The problem is I have specific interests and have pursued them all my life, so I'm rarely a novice in the things that I want to do).
I have found I don't like doing what many of my acquaintances in the same situation do, which is strike up provisional friendships and then go to concerts and plays together. I have asthma, still mask, and don't want to catch COVID; also, for personality reasons, I am not a "just hang out" kind of person and never have been. I like having some kind of mission.
posted by Peach at 1:15 PM on August 27 [14 favorites]
“any time you’ve moved to a new place you have to whore yourself out a little.”
This line made me LOL, and said what I came to say better than I could have.
Seriously, I have moved around a lot for my job and it is true that anything you can do to force yourself out there will be worth it in the long run. It's hard for me to do but I've found that picking something from my list of interests and faking extra enthusiasm for a while has worked not only to draw others to me, but also to help my own mood, as the "faked" emotions become closer to real. Try something for a while at least, and if nothing catches fire after six months or so, try something else.
You are far from alone in this, and your situation will no doubt evolve, and your feelings will ebb and flow. I hope that thought makes you feel better rather than worse!
posted by rpfields at 2:20 PM on August 27 [7 favorites]
This line made me LOL, and said what I came to say better than I could have.
Seriously, I have moved around a lot for my job and it is true that anything you can do to force yourself out there will be worth it in the long run. It's hard for me to do but I've found that picking something from my list of interests and faking extra enthusiasm for a while has worked not only to draw others to me, but also to help my own mood, as the "faked" emotions become closer to real. Try something for a while at least, and if nothing catches fire after six months or so, try something else.
You are far from alone in this, and your situation will no doubt evolve, and your feelings will ebb and flow. I hope that thought makes you feel better rather than worse!
posted by rpfields at 2:20 PM on August 27 [7 favorites]
As a melancholic kid from a depressed and religiously repressed culture, in a part of the world where chronic cloud cover rivaled that in the Ray Bradbury story "All in A Summer Day," and where I grew up auditing philosophy classes beginning at the freakish age of 7, I had a hard time getting through each day. Finding meaning was a lot. What shifted my thinking was seeing up close a few friends try to end their lives when we were in our late teens. I was so angry at them. What hubris--to think you know at that age that your entire life isn't worth living! And when I heard myself think that about their lives, I realized I had to apply it to mine.
So I put the capital M "Meaning Making" part of my brain on auto-pilot. Trying to impose meaning onto life suddenly seemed like talking about dancing instead of actually dancing. What I decided to channel my time and energy into was being curious. About anything. A lot about learning stuff. Small stuff -- I'll look up anything: the word xanthophyll; why skyscrapers became a thing; how to shuffle (cards and feet); AI prompt refinement. Big stuff -- languages; weather systems; how to play a musical instrument. Maybe it's "just" distracting? But maybe it's also the point of living? I'm constantly thankful and blown away by the things people have discovered, learned, shared, expanded on. I feel harmonic with the natural world, and part of humanity. Never in my wildest dreams growing up did I imagine I'd learn to play a musical instrument, let alone play drums! Let alone on stage, with a group of people, understanding the joyful playfulness of lobbing something back and forth between us and laughing when we drop it and pick it up again! (And all that over the age of 45 - some days seven-year-old me does not even recognize me!)
I still have to remind myself every few years to have more fun, to relax. To put down the heavy work of figuring it out. But after that rough couple of years when friends tried to end their lives, I got a tattoo that was a symbol of rebirth. It's a permanent reminder to myself that I made my choice. I don't have to revisit the fundamentals. I have already let go of what it all means, of whether it's worth it, of whether to keep going. Keep going.
For the last seven years I've been writing and officiating nonreligious funerals. What I see more consistently is that the meaning-making about your life is a task, an act of love, for others, for your children and grand-children and friends. I don't think it's your job. I don't think it's supposed to make sense to you, or even that it can. It's only something that makes sense from the outside, when it's complete, when it's whole. At least that's what it seems like when I meet families. They'll look at your life, your choices, the things you went toward, the things you kept at a distance, the things you embraced, the things you said no to, your stories, what you loved, what you hated, what you regretted, what you savored -- and now that you're done with the waltzing molecules of it all, they will be able to say who you were and what you were about. And from that now-stability, they'll pick and choose, from those things, the things they need. Maybe it'll be your wonderful ability to amble. Or your selflessness in helping them. Or your abiding need for community. Or your sensitivity to the sweet brevity of life, and your resilience despite it. Your job, I think, is simply the incremental yeses, in this direction or that, of each moment.
posted by cocoagirl at 5:06 PM on August 27 [27 favorites]
So I put the capital M "Meaning Making" part of my brain on auto-pilot. Trying to impose meaning onto life suddenly seemed like talking about dancing instead of actually dancing. What I decided to channel my time and energy into was being curious. About anything. A lot about learning stuff. Small stuff -- I'll look up anything: the word xanthophyll; why skyscrapers became a thing; how to shuffle (cards and feet); AI prompt refinement. Big stuff -- languages; weather systems; how to play a musical instrument. Maybe it's "just" distracting? But maybe it's also the point of living? I'm constantly thankful and blown away by the things people have discovered, learned, shared, expanded on. I feel harmonic with the natural world, and part of humanity. Never in my wildest dreams growing up did I imagine I'd learn to play a musical instrument, let alone play drums! Let alone on stage, with a group of people, understanding the joyful playfulness of lobbing something back and forth between us and laughing when we drop it and pick it up again! (And all that over the age of 45 - some days seven-year-old me does not even recognize me!)
I still have to remind myself every few years to have more fun, to relax. To put down the heavy work of figuring it out. But after that rough couple of years when friends tried to end their lives, I got a tattoo that was a symbol of rebirth. It's a permanent reminder to myself that I made my choice. I don't have to revisit the fundamentals. I have already let go of what it all means, of whether it's worth it, of whether to keep going. Keep going.
For the last seven years I've been writing and officiating nonreligious funerals. What I see more consistently is that the meaning-making about your life is a task, an act of love, for others, for your children and grand-children and friends. I don't think it's your job. I don't think it's supposed to make sense to you, or even that it can. It's only something that makes sense from the outside, when it's complete, when it's whole. At least that's what it seems like when I meet families. They'll look at your life, your choices, the things you went toward, the things you kept at a distance, the things you embraced, the things you said no to, your stories, what you loved, what you hated, what you regretted, what you savored -- and now that you're done with the waltzing molecules of it all, they will be able to say who you were and what you were about. And from that now-stability, they'll pick and choose, from those things, the things they need. Maybe it'll be your wonderful ability to amble. Or your selflessness in helping them. Or your abiding need for community. Or your sensitivity to the sweet brevity of life, and your resilience despite it. Your job, I think, is simply the incremental yeses, in this direction or that, of each moment.
posted by cocoagirl at 5:06 PM on August 27 [27 favorites]
I'm occasionally around a former Olympic medalist, who is just normal. I've had a few high moments, nothing like that. A couple weeks ago another moment, helping the grand-toddlers at the airport back to their home, and this one little guy snuggled into my shoulder during the ticketing wait and my feeling was just that 20 minutes of giving comfort may justify my entire time here on the planet.
Things like meaning are not necessarily a full time nervana state. Like happiness a moment a day or a week goes a long way.
posted by sammyo at 8:14 PM on August 27 [6 favorites]
Things like meaning are not necessarily a full time nervana state. Like happiness a moment a day or a week goes a long way.
posted by sammyo at 8:14 PM on August 27 [6 favorites]
I am in my early 60s. The past several years have actually given me more connection and more purpose.
Trump was bad for the USA and the world, but he did have the effect of getting more people more involved in politics. One of those people was me. I have made a few friends and also have a good network of colleagues and acquaintances. I like to hope that I am making a difference with my efforts.
I am not saying that you should get involved in politics (unless you want to). But think about all your interests, what you enjoy and what moves you. How can you be more involved with one or more of them? Is there a group for that topic? If not, maybe you could start a group. I think part of the key to building relationships (in the general sense) is to be in a situation that you see the same people on a regular basis.
Also, I know that you write, and my favorite book is "If You Want to Write: A Book about Art, Independence and Spirit" by Brenda Ueland, from 1938 but still in print. It is kind of more about personal philosophy than the mechanics of writing.
Ueland had two rules: "to tell the truth, and not to do anything she didn't want to do". And the book is about writing, but "whenever I say 'writing' in this book, I also mean anything that you love and want to do or make."
I hope you can find what you are looking for. I have been pleased to work with you a little on one or two MeFi projects.
posted by NotLost at 9:03 PM on August 27 [6 favorites]
Trump was bad for the USA and the world, but he did have the effect of getting more people more involved in politics. One of those people was me. I have made a few friends and also have a good network of colleagues and acquaintances. I like to hope that I am making a difference with my efforts.
I am not saying that you should get involved in politics (unless you want to). But think about all your interests, what you enjoy and what moves you. How can you be more involved with one or more of them? Is there a group for that topic? If not, maybe you could start a group. I think part of the key to building relationships (in the general sense) is to be in a situation that you see the same people on a regular basis.
Also, I know that you write, and my favorite book is "If You Want to Write: A Book about Art, Independence and Spirit" by Brenda Ueland, from 1938 but still in print. It is kind of more about personal philosophy than the mechanics of writing.
Ueland had two rules: "to tell the truth, and not to do anything she didn't want to do". And the book is about writing, but "whenever I say 'writing' in this book, I also mean anything that you love and want to do or make."
I hope you can find what you are looking for. I have been pleased to work with you a little on one or two MeFi projects.
posted by NotLost at 9:03 PM on August 27 [6 favorites]
And this article might be useful: Why Is the Loneliness Epidemic so Hard to Cure?
posted by NotLost at 9:18 PM on August 27 [1 favorite]
posted by NotLost at 9:18 PM on August 27 [1 favorite]
I R 70. About 20 years ago I took up drum dance and body percussion for a while. Our teacher came to class one evening a bit down in the dumps: her home had been flooded and all the DAT tapes from her field work in West Africa swept to buggery. After explaining this she said "I guess I'll have to practice non-attachment . . . let's drum" and we did. That incident was one of many which said to me that there is no Meaning to life: the things we treasure (childer, health, stuff) can be whisked off-stage in an instant. But Being Here sure is interesting. Like cocoagirl above I've worked hard to become more aware of what's happening outside of my head.
It's fractal: if Big Things - Life, the Universe, Politics - seem too big to chew on I can always get down on my knees in the garden and be with the spiders: the world in a grain of sand, Matt 6:28 etc. etc. That's a bit woo and unfocused, so I do something every day: clear a drain; write a letter; turn the compost; bake a slab of flapjacks. If I've been good, I'll take myself beachcombing. The great thing about being 70 rather than 17 is that you can play the I gave already card.
posted by BobTheScientist at 1:28 AM on August 28 [9 favorites]
It's fractal: if Big Things - Life, the Universe, Politics - seem too big to chew on I can always get down on my knees in the garden and be with the spiders: the world in a grain of sand, Matt 6:28 etc. etc. That's a bit woo and unfocused, so I do something every day: clear a drain; write a letter; turn the compost; bake a slab of flapjacks. If I've been good, I'll take myself beachcombing. The great thing about being 70 rather than 17 is that you can play the I gave already card.
posted by BobTheScientist at 1:28 AM on August 28 [9 favorites]
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posted by bluedaisy at 7:42 AM on August 27 [20 favorites]