Music in public places
August 27, 2024 6:37 AM
I work at a pool. It has music piped in via radio stations. I was approached by a patron regarding the music.
The music genre was some mild contemporary pop music. She asked me if it could be changed to "oldies" music. I told her I would find out. Manager told me it could not be changed because we were not getting good radio reception. Patron had gone back into the pool by then, so I could not inform her of this. About 10 minutes later, she stood in front of me, dripping wet, with a towel around her shoulders, noticeably shaking, and softly crying. She said, "I have an anxiety problem and I can't tolerate this music. Can you PLEASE change it to oldies?!" Manager explained to her that there was not good radio reception, and said he would just turn the music off. Soon after, another patron came to me and said, "Could you turn the music back on?"
How would you address this? If you were to create a policy regarding this, what would it be?
(I wonder how said patron manages to endure, for example, shopping in the grocery store, where there is always crappy music playing.)
The music genre was some mild contemporary pop music. She asked me if it could be changed to "oldies" music. I told her I would find out. Manager told me it could not be changed because we were not getting good radio reception. Patron had gone back into the pool by then, so I could not inform her of this. About 10 minutes later, she stood in front of me, dripping wet, with a towel around her shoulders, noticeably shaking, and softly crying. She said, "I have an anxiety problem and I can't tolerate this music. Can you PLEASE change it to oldies?!" Manager explained to her that there was not good radio reception, and said he would just turn the music off. Soon after, another patron came to me and said, "Could you turn the music back on?"
How would you address this? If you were to create a policy regarding this, what would it be?
(I wonder how said patron manages to endure, for example, shopping in the grocery store, where there is always crappy music playing.)
Coward that I am, in your place I would refer them to the manager. The manager, in turn, could pass the buck up to the owner, who refuses to provide reliable, on-site music -- or no music, or a clear policy.
This response sidesteps the issue that, in a public place, not every taste can be accommodated. Personally, I would turn off the music if someone objects, and turn it back on an hour later.
Then again, I once worked in an ice cream shop with four cassette tapes that the owner insisted we play: Squeeze "45's and Under"; UB40 "Labour of Love"; some Grateful Dead tape -- "Workingman's Dead," I think; and Bob Marley "Legend." My next job was a pizza place where the owners only had two Muzak recordings, both showtunes. One or the other would be played for weeks at a time. Now I hear The Clash in the grocery store. Gaaaaaah.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:47 AM on August 27
This response sidesteps the issue that, in a public place, not every taste can be accommodated. Personally, I would turn off the music if someone objects, and turn it back on an hour later.
Then again, I once worked in an ice cream shop with four cassette tapes that the owner insisted we play: Squeeze "45's and Under"; UB40 "Labour of Love"; some Grateful Dead tape -- "Workingman's Dead," I think; and Bob Marley "Legend." My next job was a pizza place where the owners only had two Muzak recordings, both showtunes. One or the other would be played for weeks at a time. Now I hear The Clash in the grocery store. Gaaaaaah.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:47 AM on August 27
(I wonder how said patron manages to endure, for example, shopping in the grocery store, where there is always crappy music playing.)
Yeah, regular grocery shopping is one of the things that's inaccessible to me. This significantly constrains my quality of life. In the past few months I've managed to make a couple of very short (5 minutes) grocery excursions facilitated by wearing earplugs.
posted by heatherlogan at 6:52 AM on August 27
Yeah, regular grocery shopping is one of the things that's inaccessible to me. This significantly constrains my quality of life. In the past few months I've managed to make a couple of very short (5 minutes) grocery excursions facilitated by wearing earplugs.
posted by heatherlogan at 6:52 AM on August 27
Ear buds for swimming were perfected years ago. Shut off the music and let people choose their own soundtrack.
Incessant public music is up there with gallons of perfume in my book.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:00 AM on August 27
Incessant public music is up there with gallons of perfume in my book.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:00 AM on August 27
(I wonder how said patron manages to endure, for example, shopping in the grocery store, where there is always crappy music playing.)
Headphones playing better music.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:01 AM on August 27
Headphones playing better music.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:01 AM on August 27
I would seriously consider having no music, or at least quiet hours - you will be making your pool more accessible to many people by doing that. Short of that, I would have a clear publicly-posted policy that does allow music to be turned off on request, and to honor that above requests to have it turned back on. And I'd consider having swimming earplugs available on request.
I would not get involved in changing the music for people - you don't want to be stuck navigating warring tastes of your customers. If whatever you're playing is relatively inoffensive - not super religious, not super full of explicit language during kiddie hour, whatever - then you play what you play, and don't take requests.
posted by Stacey at 7:38 AM on August 27
I would not get involved in changing the music for people - you don't want to be stuck navigating warring tastes of your customers. If whatever you're playing is relatively inoffensive - not super religious, not super full of explicit language during kiddie hour, whatever - then you play what you play, and don't take requests.
posted by Stacey at 7:38 AM on August 27
If you're not willing to turn it off completely, quiet hours would be a good thing.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:01 AM on August 27
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:01 AM on August 27
I have both earbuds and headphones that have good active noise cancellation for occasions like this where I know there will be distracting sounds or music that I can't deal with. I play either my own preferred music or just a low level background noise to wash out what's around me. And I have places that I just don't go to because I can't deal with the level of noise or distraction. Presumably other people choose those places for the same reasons that I avoid them.
I can definitely appreciate that there are people who struggle with the conditions of their surroundings but (except for "quiet hours" at specified times, as several people have suggested) I don't think that justifies removing those things entirely.
posted by AgentRocket at 8:09 AM on August 27
I can definitely appreciate that there are people who struggle with the conditions of their surroundings but (except for "quiet hours" at specified times, as several people have suggested) I don't think that justifies removing those things entirely.
posted by AgentRocket at 8:09 AM on August 27
I used to belong to a pool when my kids were younger. We no longer are members but the last couple of years they started piping in music and it was really a bummer for me. One because it was not the music I wanted to be listening to and two because it made hearing/watching the children more difficult. Now I had to not just differentiate between the noise coming from my kids and other other kids but also what was coming from the radio. If it was just me sure I can wear earbuds, but with my kids I wasn't going to. And our quiet evenings of enjoying the surrounding area and the pool were just gone. Count this musician in the chorus of less forced upon us background music please. I vote for establishing quiet hours, but also making sure you aren't making the pool less safe with the music.
posted by snowymorninblues at 8:15 AM on August 27
posted by snowymorninblues at 8:15 AM on August 27
I am firmly in team Please Turn Off the Music, but I must remonstrate that boy howdy have I ever not found any adequate swimming headphones.
posted by aesop at 8:29 AM on August 27
posted by aesop at 8:29 AM on August 27
Since you asked, my policy would be to not play music at all. I don't like background music in general, and I find pools (if they're indoors) to have weird sounds going anyway.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:31 AM on August 27
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:31 AM on August 27
This response sidesteps the issue that, in a public place, not every taste can be accommodated.
As another who's easily infuriated by what I hear amplified in public places, I'd like to introduce something this discussion's so far ignored.
It's not necessarily the music - if you're just playing a radio tuned to a commercial station it's the advertising I don't want to hear. And I shouldn't have to! The management of the pool (or, where I usually encounter this, the lower-end restaurant or gym) isn't getting any revenue from these commercials - why must we endure them?
Hugh-end places pay for the ad-free music they pipe in, and that's the only angle the sufferer can complain about, in our world, with validity - the licensing of that music. That pool or restaurant isn't paying the music's owners for the privilege of playing their tunes to paying customers. So playing some random, commercial radio station shouldn't even be allowed, and if enough money-making is involved, an ASCAP/BMI lawyer/representative could (and should IMHO) show up and shut it down.
posted by Rash at 8:35 AM on August 27
As another who's easily infuriated by what I hear amplified in public places, I'd like to introduce something this discussion's so far ignored.
It's not necessarily the music - if you're just playing a radio tuned to a commercial station it's the advertising I don't want to hear. And I shouldn't have to! The management of the pool (or, where I usually encounter this, the lower-end restaurant or gym) isn't getting any revenue from these commercials - why must we endure them?
Hugh-end places pay for the ad-free music they pipe in, and that's the only angle the sufferer can complain about, in our world, with validity - the licensing of that music. That pool or restaurant isn't paying the music's owners for the privilege of playing their tunes to paying customers. So playing some random, commercial radio station shouldn't even be allowed, and if enough money-making is involved, an ASCAP/BMI lawyer/representative could (and should IMHO) show up and shut it down.
posted by Rash at 8:35 AM on August 27
I wonder how said patron manages to endure, for example, shopping in the grocery store, where there is always crappy music playing.
See my related Safeway question from a couple years back, about this. It can be avoided; not all supermarkets have background music. (Or in Safeway's case, easy-listening Muzak.)
posted by Rash at 8:41 AM on August 27
See my related Safeway question from a couple years back, about this. It can be avoided; not all supermarkets have background music. (Or in Safeway's case, easy-listening Muzak.)
posted by Rash at 8:41 AM on August 27
Incessant public music is up there with gallons of perfume in my book.This is inordinately insightful, even for a MFer. It is such a brilliant point I will be stealing it.
I am not a swimmer but I have switched coffeeshops when the baristas (or someone) decided to start piping in the “drive-time dimbulb hour,” which resonates with another commenter’s observation that they don’t pay to listen to advertisements.
It never occurred to me that some folks have issues with *any* music. I will now just advocate for the soundtrack to be silence—but given the 1950’s-era wisdom that “customers buy more when you play music” (whether it is true or not), I assume my pleas will fall on deaf ears.
Since I have a hard time believing anyone suffers if there is no music, I’d say “just leave it off.” From a practical standpoint, let the manager take the heat.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 8:43 AM on August 27
Of course a third way (laughably inappropriate and unacceptable in most quarters, but my preferred solution) would be tuning that radio to the other end, to the soothing non-commercial public radio station playing classical music.
posted by Rash at 8:49 AM on August 27
posted by Rash at 8:49 AM on August 27
Have some periods with music and some with silence. A major catalog retailer has silence on hold. I love it so much. Also, people who really want music can get waterproof music devices,I think.
Years ago, I had a small store; we all brought in tapes of music we liked (and thankfully never got busted by ASCAP). Some of it jazz, classical, instrumental. Most customer comments were positive, though the volume sometimes crept up and needed adjustment. Would turn it off if a customer requested it. We thought the Chariots of Fire soundtrack was good for sales.No science whatsoever, though.
posted by theora55 at 8:53 AM on August 27
Years ago, I had a small store; we all brought in tapes of music we liked (and thankfully never got busted by ASCAP). Some of it jazz, classical, instrumental. Most customer comments were positive, though the volume sometimes crept up and needed adjustment. Would turn it off if a customer requested it. We thought the Chariots of Fire soundtrack was good for sales.No science whatsoever, though.
posted by theora55 at 8:53 AM on August 27
I hate public music. When I used to go to the gym, it was always there—some thumping techno-ish dreck. To the extent that it would leak into my headphones when I tried listening to something else.
I similarly hate public TV (though not "public television"), regarding which I was forced to sit in a very large waiting room yesterday that had Young Sheldon on eight inescapable screens. This is a show that I would turn down money offered to watch, so not being able to get away from it (and the constant ads that sandwiched the painfully unfunny "comedy") was annoying af. But the same happens in hospitals, medical offices, and other spaces.
So, me? I vote for "turn the music off." Unless you're operating a roller-disco rink, music is rarely an essential, or even complementary, part of the Thing You Went There to Do.
posted by the sobsister at 8:55 AM on August 27
I similarly hate public TV (though not "public television"), regarding which I was forced to sit in a very large waiting room yesterday that had Young Sheldon on eight inescapable screens. This is a show that I would turn down money offered to watch, so not being able to get away from it (and the constant ads that sandwiched the painfully unfunny "comedy") was annoying af. But the same happens in hospitals, medical offices, and other spaces.
So, me? I vote for "turn the music off." Unless you're operating a roller-disco rink, music is rarely an essential, or even complementary, part of the Thing You Went There to Do.
posted by the sobsister at 8:55 AM on August 27
Solution for the sobsister (since the visuals from multiple TVs in public places can be even more annoying and distracting, but this also solves their audio emissions) is the TV-B-Gone. Note the stock version's often ineffectual but that kit from Adafruit really does the job.
posted by Rash at 9:07 AM on August 27
posted by Rash at 9:07 AM on August 27
"My manager is over there. I have no control over the music."
posted by bowbeacon at 9:12 AM on August 27
posted by bowbeacon at 9:12 AM on August 27
While I agree that I would also prefer no music for many reasons, I can understand why a request to change the music might make you feel a way. When I worked retail, I was very sympathetic when people asked if the music could be turned off, but I did get my back up a little when people asked for the music to be different. It felt like a total lack of understanding of the space we were in and what role everyone had there: if staff are in control of the music, then presumably we chose what is playing because we like it and we are the ones here all day every day, and why should we have to change it to your tastes for an hour (or, more realistically, for 15 minutes until someone else asks for their tastes, and again, and again)? And if staff aren’t in control of the music, then no, we actually can’t change it, not even for you.
If it were my pool and I were in charge, I would implement clear and posted policies about the music: quiet hours and XYZ station hours. If I were you and was not in charge of anything, I would tell everyone who inquired that the music was a management decision and I couldn’t control it, sorry, sympathetic face, bosses amirite shoulder shrug. And then let the manager talk to them from there.
Also, since I haven’t listened to the radio in decades, can anyone clarify what counts as “oldies” in 2024? Four Tops? Madonna? The Killers?
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 9:43 AM on August 27
If it were my pool and I were in charge, I would implement clear and posted policies about the music: quiet hours and XYZ station hours. If I were you and was not in charge of anything, I would tell everyone who inquired that the music was a management decision and I couldn’t control it, sorry, sympathetic face, bosses amirite shoulder shrug. And then let the manager talk to them from there.
Also, since I haven’t listened to the radio in decades, can anyone clarify what counts as “oldies” in 2024? Four Tops? Madonna? The Killers?
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 9:43 AM on August 27
I cannot imagine any pool having acoustics that didn't render piped-in music practically unlistenable. Please, no.
If you need to avoid silence, add a waterfall feature or something.
posted by amtho at 9:55 AM on August 27
If you need to avoid silence, add a waterfall feature or something.
posted by amtho at 9:55 AM on August 27
I cannot imagine any pool having acoustics that didn't render piped-in music practically unlistenable. Outdoor pools exist?
I think the staff gets to make the call here (within reason.) Public places are public, life is filled with stimuli that you don't get to control. Maybe no music is the right call, or maybe it's something like no music for the first hour of the day and no music for the last hour of the day.
posted by vunder at 10:12 AM on August 27
I think the staff gets to make the call here (within reason.) Public places are public, life is filled with stimuli that you don't get to control. Maybe no music is the right call, or maybe it's something like no music for the first hour of the day and no music for the last hour of the day.
posted by vunder at 10:12 AM on August 27
Count me in with vote that there is no need to play music at a pool during regular swimming hours. There is no way to please everyone’s musical preference. Folks who want to listen to their own jams can bring their own headphones or earbuds (and use them!).
It seems unfair that folks can always add music, but there is no way for those who want no music to “remove” music without jeopardizing safety.
posted by oceano at 10:15 AM on August 27
It seems unfair that folks can always add music, but there is no way for those who want no music to “remove” music without jeopardizing safety.
posted by oceano at 10:15 AM on August 27
can anyone clarify what counts as “oldies” in 2024? Four Tops? Madonna? The Killers?
Yeah this is the discussion I would have enjoyed, with the OP's dripping wet patron, as I obtusely tuned in the Big Band-Swing station. "Oldies" now means music popular with teenagers and young adults from the period between about 1955 to 1973. It's funny because at that time, an 'oldie' was considered any song from the beginning of that era to something little more than a couple years old, but by then off the charts and forgotten.
posted by Rash at 10:19 AM on August 27
Yeah this is the discussion I would have enjoyed, with the OP's dripping wet patron, as I obtusely tuned in the Big Band-Swing station. "Oldies" now means music popular with teenagers and young adults from the period between about 1955 to 1973. It's funny because at that time, an 'oldie' was considered any song from the beginning of that era to something little more than a couple years old, but by then off the charts and forgotten.
posted by Rash at 10:19 AM on August 27
If I worked at the pool and received this request, I would say that we are not able to accommodate individual music requests, and then provide as much information as I had available about what music is played, or not played, during the pool's open hours.
If I owned a pool and was creating a policy, it would include different kinds of sounds throughout the day and week, including a variety of musical styles and genres, some no-music and sensory-friendly times, and some times when the playlist would be chosen by the staff.
The schedule would be publicly posted and updated at some regular interval--maybe quarterly? Seasonally? Something like that.
posted by box at 10:36 AM on August 27
If I owned a pool and was creating a policy, it would include different kinds of sounds throughout the day and week, including a variety of musical styles and genres, some no-music and sensory-friendly times, and some times when the playlist would be chosen by the staff.
The schedule would be publicly posted and updated at some regular interval--maybe quarterly? Seasonally? Something like that.
posted by box at 10:36 AM on August 27
"I am so sorry about the music. This is the only station we're allowed to play BUT, I am allowed to turn it off/down for $DURATION if asked. Let me go do that for you." and then if you do institute quiet hours, say, "By the way, we do offer quiet hours on $DAYS$TIMES if that might work better."
posted by ApathyGirl at 11:15 AM on August 27
posted by ApathyGirl at 11:15 AM on August 27
This is an echo [har] of the way many professional office waiting rooms play Fox "News" channel on the TVs. I would never dream of telling them to change it -- but I haaaaate it.
So good on the swimmer for speaking up, but maybe we would all be happier with nothing, as suggested by many commenters above, in more of our public spaces.
posted by wenestvedt at 11:18 AM on August 27
So good on the swimmer for speaking up, but maybe we would all be happier with nothing, as suggested by many commenters above, in more of our public spaces.
posted by wenestvedt at 11:18 AM on August 27
this would be so much more comprehensible to me if she'd just asked you to turn the music off. I absolutely understand being overstimulated, and public pools have a lot of stimuli already without layering music on top. but I don't totally know what to do with shaking and crying about the music not being to your taste (and not like, wanting you to put on spa music or piano music or something ambient, but asking to swap pop music from the 2020s for pop music from presumably the 70s?). I don't think you actually need to do anything about this, although I bet a lot of your patrons would welcome quiet hours set aside at the pool (like maybe in the mornings, or during adult swim/lap swim if you have it).
posted by goodbyewaffles at 11:30 AM on August 27
posted by goodbyewaffles at 11:30 AM on August 27
I'm putting in another vote for no music. When I'm in the grocery store now I'll hear music that I remember and like and it weirds me out.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:42 AM on August 27
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:42 AM on August 27
Another vote for no music or at least quiet hours. I also hate the onslaught of noise pollution (whether music, TV, etc.) in all spaces - there is even scientific research that the human brain is not designed to take all this stimulation and functions better when it's given breaks. And yeah, there is no way you'll be able to find a music choice that makes everyone happy - better to just let those who prefer music while swimming to invest in waterproof headphones.
posted by coffeecat at 12:02 PM on August 27
posted by coffeecat at 12:02 PM on August 27
Response to Rash's tuning that radio to the other end, to the soothing non-commercial public radio station playing classical music:
Funny that you say this, because my son's beloved music teacher from grade school began coming in to swim, and requested that exact type of radio station. I was able to convince the manager to play it for him. But the manager would only do it that one time.
posted by SageTrail at 12:45 PM on August 27
Funny that you say this, because my son's beloved music teacher from grade school began coming in to swim, and requested that exact type of radio station. I was able to convince the manager to play it for him. But the manager would only do it that one time.
posted by SageTrail at 12:45 PM on August 27
CtrlAltDelete asked, "... can anyone clarify what counts as 'oldies' in 2024?"
I can because I hear it for hours while I am at work. Some examples:
In the Air - Phil Collins, Thriller - Michael Jackson, Kokomo - Beach Boys, I Will Survive - Gloria Gaynor, Like a Prayer - Madonna, Karma Chameleon - Culture Club, Don't You Want Me - The Human League, Everything I Do I Do It For You - Bryan Adams
Ugh!!
posted by SageTrail at 1:03 PM on August 27
I can because I hear it for hours while I am at work. Some examples:
In the Air - Phil Collins, Thriller - Michael Jackson, Kokomo - Beach Boys, I Will Survive - Gloria Gaynor, Like a Prayer - Madonna, Karma Chameleon - Culture Club, Don't You Want Me - The Human League, Everything I Do I Do It For You - Bryan Adams
Ugh!!
posted by SageTrail at 1:03 PM on August 27
Maybe said patron's previous pool visits coincided with the music she tolerates, and she anticipated the same during this visit.
Maybe she (or a friend) noted an instance when switching the station was possible, like the time the teacher's request went through.
Established policies are really helpful in shared spaces like community pools.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:32 PM on August 27
Maybe she (or a friend) noted an instance when switching the station was possible, like the time the teacher's request went through.
Established policies are really helpful in shared spaces like community pools.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:32 PM on August 27
if staff are in control of the music, then presumably we chose what is playing because we like it and we are the ones here all day every day, and why should we have to change it to your tastes for an hour […]I wish businesses would post this philosophy at the door so I could know not to waste my scarce time and money on them. Which, of course, is why customer tastes are important—otherwise the staff are just having a private party.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 5:33 AM on August 28
this would be so much more comprehensible to me if she'd just asked you to turn the music off.
But you can't do that - everyone there would turn around and notice. And immediately someone would say "Hey - what happened to the music?"
posted by Rash at 11:34 AM on August 28
But you can't do that - everyone there would turn around and notice. And immediately someone would say "Hey - what happened to the music?"
posted by Rash at 11:34 AM on August 28
I can't see that it's been clarified, but are there issues with copyright and broadcasting music in places like this? Like, Gap, Target, etc. have to pay for the rights to play those songs. I'm pretty sure every retail environment does in the US. And that goes for restaurants and places of commerce. Spotify has a business account for just this thing.
I don't know about playing a radio in public, but there might be something in that, especially if this is a private pool.
posted by Snowishberlin at 3:52 PM on August 28
I don't know about playing a radio in public, but there might be something in that, especially if this is a private pool.
posted by Snowishberlin at 3:52 PM on August 28
I think the thing that justifies the staff having a choice is that unlike a private party, they are working....anyone who has ever supervised large groups of people (doing something potentially dangerous!) would probably balk at the idea that just changing the music to their tastes makes it a party! And given that you cannot cater to all tastes, the people who are there very frequently seem like as ok bunch to cater to as any.
Quiet times is a nice, inclusive idea that I imagine quite a large swathe of people would enjoy (as noted previously,the noise sensitive, people with hearing difficulties, parents, just...others).
posted by jojobobo at 2:28 AM on August 30
Quiet times is a nice, inclusive idea that I imagine quite a large swathe of people would enjoy (as noted previously,the noise sensitive, people with hearing difficulties, parents, just...others).
posted by jojobobo at 2:28 AM on August 30
Update: Today, the patron who was upset by the music came to me to tell me she had purchased some earplugs and they are working great for her. She apologized for being so stressed. The head lifeguard and I emphatically told her no apology was necessary! The head lifeguard then told her that Walmart now has sensory-friendly hours and that she (the head lifeguard) wishes all stores had that. I wish they did, too.
posted by SageTrail at 5:32 PM on August 30
posted by SageTrail at 5:32 PM on August 30
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My suggestion to address this is to establish, publicize, and unfailingly follow a policy of set quiet hours (or quiet days), during which no music is played at the pool. A corollary to this is that you must not allow patrons to blast their own music players during the quiet hours.
posted by heatherlogan at 6:45 AM on August 27