My mechanic won't work on my car. What next?

July 1, 2024 3:12 PM

My 2008 Kia Rio (base) has an intermittent problem with the engine cranking but not starting. The problem shows up only once every couple of weeks, though it seems to be getting more frequent. I took the car to my usual neighborhood mechanic, but it started up for him easily every time he tried, as I had expected. He won't work on it if he can't reliably reproduce the problem. What next?

I posted about this problem here last October. The problem bizarrely went away for about six months but has now returned. Briefly, I turn the key, and the car cranks -- but the engine doesn't catch. Sometimes it takes eight or nine attempts before the car starts. Sometimes it doesn't start at all even after ten or more attempts, and I give up for a few hours or overnight. Then it works fine again.

In the earlier thread, there was some speculation about a leak in the fuel system which causes the fuel to drain out of the feed line overnight. However, I've had a couple of instances of hard starts where the car wasn't cold -- it was only off for a few minutes while I ran into a store. The solutions offered in the thread don't work for me (though I admit that I haven't tried changing the battery).

Anyway, I need to get this problem fixed somehow. Should I take the car to a Kia dealer? Or is there a particular type of auto repair shop I should look for? I'm disappointed that my regular guy won't help me. He's been really great in the past.

posted by akk2014 to Grab Bag (13 answers total)

this will probably be a pain in the ass, but can you video (or have someone video/set up a tripod) starting your car for the next few days and see if the problem occurs, then show the video to your regular guy and see if that's sufficient evidence of the issue? that may get the ball rolling with him to believe that the issue is an actual thing. might be best if you pop the hood while doing the video.
posted by koroshiya at 3:21 PM on July 1

Response by poster: I think he believes me -- he just doesn't know how to troubleshoot a problem that only appears sporadically. He's also going to retire soon, so maybe he just doesn't want the aggravation.
posted by akk2014 at 3:25 PM on July 1

I'd avoid a dealer, but there certainly have to be indie shops that employ former Hyundai/Kia techs. That might be a good bet. Have you tried the cartalk.com forums? They're pretty good and can recommend decent shops.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 3:31 PM on July 1

Seconding the video idea. Sometimes car problems can be diagnosed using sound.
posted by Silvery Fish at 4:12 PM on July 1

I don't think you need a particular kind of mechanic. All you need is a new mechanic, and the way to find that is the same as ever - ask your friends for recommendations of someone they've gone to and found to be competent and honest. Especially listen to friends who drive older cars like yours.

You didn't ask for this advice, but in your place I'd do some troubleshooting myself. I'd put a spare spark plug and a broomstick in the car. Next time this happens, I'd pull a spark plug wire and install the spare plug, and have a friend crank the car while I watched for spark. If there is spark, I'd put that back and hold the broomstick with one end against an injector and the other end against my ear to hear whether the injectors are firing. If they are, I'd suspect fuel pressure/supply. Unfortunately your car doesn't seem to have a shrader valve where an old fashioned fuel pressure gauge can just be screwed on like a bicycle pump. But happily, your car has an access panel to the fuel pump under the back seat, and the pump and pressure regulator are both right there. If you have spark and injectors firing, it's probably a fuel supply/pressure problem. You might find the fuel pump wiring eaten by a mouse or the connector rusty, or maybe the pump is just old and doesn't always want to start up. In this situation you or your mechanic might want to install a fuel pressure gauge even if it's tricky and involves cutting a line to add a tap of some kind. Or, just take a shot in the dark and replace the fuel pump if it's not too expensive.

It could be a more esoteric problem, like a crank position sensor or some other sensor, but it's almost certain your check engine light would be on if so, and in your last post you said it isn't. (It also wouldn't hurt to scan for pending codes after one of these temporary failures.)
posted by fritley at 4:15 PM on July 1 [2 favorites]

Kia dealer, yes! Not all dealers are rip-offs, and they'll have familiarity with your Kia.

In that earlier thread, there's talk of OBDII codes and replacing sensors... that didn't work for you? Are you getting any error codes currently? Maybe invest in your own OBD reader?
posted by at at 4:19 PM on July 1

Anecdata. My 2005 Skoda Fabia VRS had an identically presenting problem, which did get gradually worse and worse, to the extent it started behaving very weirdly while I was driving. Eventually I took it into the local dealership, who put their master tech on it. He said he couldn't be sure, but it was probably the crankshaft sensor (fairly sure of this terminology but not 100% - it was a few years ago), so he'd replace that and hopefully that would fix it straight away. He did, and it did. No similar issues since.

Edit: this presented completely without any engine lights or warnings.
posted by spielzebub at 4:20 PM on July 1 [1 favorite]

Sorry to hear it's still giving you grief. If you listen carefully, you should be able to hear the fuel pump priming when you turn the key to the "on" position but don't crank the car. (It will be a faint buzzing/whirring sound that lasts perhaps less than a second coming from the rear of the car. ) As you go about your business using the car, pause each time in the on position before cranking it and listen for the sound each time you start or attempt to start the car. If you notice a correlation between "no buzzing noise" and "this time the car won't start" that will be a major clue as to what's up. (Fuel pump, wire/ connection to fuel pump, fuel pump relay if it has one.) Whichever mechanic you go with, if you can provide them with this info it will help their diagnosis. "I do/don't hear the fuel pump priming when I have a no-start incident." Good luck!
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 6:00 PM on July 1

Response by poster: I have one of those devices that reads codes, but I thought it was only useful if the "Check Engine" light was on (mine hasn't been on in years). I'll put the device in my car and check for a pending code the next time I have trouble starting the car.

@fritley: Thanks for writing the detailed suggestions, but messing with spark plugs, etc. is way beyond my comfort level with cars.

@Larry David Syndrome: I'll try to pay careful attention and listen for the fuel pump turning on. But when I tried to do this back in October, I couldn't hear anything. Maybe my fuel pump is quieter than average, or maybe my hearing was permanently damaged by that one Skid Row / Guns N' Roses concert from 1992. Anyway, I'll give it another shot tomorrow morning.

@spielzebub: Yeah, my mechanic (the one who wouldn't work on the car) did mention that the crankshaft sensor was a possible issue, but it was one of several things he thought could potentially be the problem. He also mentioned the fuel pump. I don't remember the others.

Thank you for all the useful information.
posted by akk2014 at 6:58 PM on July 1

Some of those readers will read pending codes (the ones that the computer has noticed, but aren't consistent enough to make the check engine light come on and be stored as permanent codes). But many simple/cheap ones will not, they'll just be able to read the permanent codes once the light is on.
posted by fritley at 8:14 PM on July 1

If there is any correlation between not starting and wet weather (or CAR WASHES), that’d be a vote from me for crankshaft sensor replacement.
The replacement itself isn’t difficult. You might search YT videos to find out more in order to talk about it with a new mechanic.
posted by artdrectr at 8:42 PM on July 1

When I've had intermittent issues with my car in the past, I left it at the mechanic and he had someone go out and start it twice a day until they saw the same issue. Did the mechanic offer that option? If you're not able to leave the car then you may need to wait until it gets worse and worse so it's more consistent. But if the mechanic isn't willing then getting a second opinion would speed up the process.
posted by muddgirl at 6:56 AM on July 2

Heh, I just put this in the other "why car no start" question, so the short version: if it happens again, go open and close the gas tank and see if the car starts. It's troubleshooting data if nothing else.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:09 AM on July 2