Worried I'm too strange for romantic fulfillment, scared of how to cope
June 19, 2024 9:41 AM Subscribe
I've been putting the work in at therapy. I've accepted I have a fetish despite having a so, so much shame around it, and probably also some CPTSD from being raised as a borderline gifted autistic child with a higher needs sibling. I'm depressed and struggling to take care of myself after the pandemic, despite being a white collar professional who's superficially successful.
I'm also 35, trans, and isolated. The NSFW details inside. CW for dark mental health stuff, discussions about sex and verbal abuse, trans anxieties that might make other trans people anxious
The CPTSD shit: Autism and probably some personality/mood disorders run in the family. My mom is quite high strung and will anxiously lecture/spiral at me for hours. I do that to my friends when I'm upset now, and that's why I don't have a lot of friends. Hence the therapist.
My mom and dad were rich for the 90s, and thought I wasn't social enough, too manipulative, I used too many filler words, didn't pronounce every phoneme right, and was too stubborn, so they took me to the neurologist, and the doctor said I had "Shadows of Aspergers," and gave me a PDD-NOS diagnosis that I just call autism these days. So I went to a lot of speech therapy and child psychologists and when my mom is angry, she'll remind me how much it all cost. My sister ended up needing more.
My father passed away when I was 12, and he was the sole breadwinner. My sister is autistic, probably type 2 in modern parlance? She was nonverbal when she was young but picked words up in special education pretty quickly, and despite having motor skills issues, she's very eager and compliant to meet my mom's every request and need. My mom made sure to get her to every possible therapist and social outing for people of her ability level, and trusted me to be independent since she was only one adult, but she still made time to be critical of me. When she'd relax at home, she'd be watching me and calling me out for using the incorrect word or doing the dishes wrong (I still feel a jolt down my spine when I hear someone talk about hard water stains), eyes right below the edge of her copy of the NY Times. She could be reading an article, or looking at me, so buck up and don't say like or um if I feel the urge to speak.
Meanwhile, both as a child and an adult, I get morose when I'm stressed rather than more compliant, and if you lecture or yell at me while I'm down and ashamed, I'll go into a rage at myself. There were times my mom would yell at me for six hours for something abstract like not taking the college search seriously, and I'd not have any idea how to deescalate and end up kicking a hole in the wall. I'd always end up fixing it to show I care and really didn't want to hurt them or the house. When I'd climb the stairs too fast, she'd yell at me about the home being her one asset and that if I wear out the stairs, she might not have the money to keep my sister in a good hospital if things come to that and she'd be in a state hospital where she'd be raped. She also felt like I wasn't serious enough about masking or developing a personality that wasn't unpleasant. One time, when a relative I was close to was staying over, she pulled me out of bed, in the middle of the night, to tell me that a lot of autistic people like me end up homeless, but that even if we avoid that, if we're nasty, nobody will want anything to do with us, and that she has a cousin like me who's an engineer into ham radio and technology. Nobody liked him in high school, but he makes a lot of money, so he "had to get a mail order bride from the Philippines" and she said she's not sure that was ethical. I started to cry and then she said she thinks they're happy, but that she just wanted me to change. It hurt, to me.
The stair thing had me hoping that if I could make enough money to buy my mom new stairs, maybe she'd like me when I was little again. So even though I was a depressed and lousy student, I muscled through to get a comp sci degree and job as a software engineer and I've worked at two companies. I've been one the past six years but only got promoted once, because I'm truthfully scared to talk to my colleagues and don't fully understand who does what in an office or how to talk to people with a corporate affect or make friends in my current corporate culture. My last work was structured like a chill college where people hang out in mostly quiet offices for each team and people chat, and this one is like a concrete pit of open office standing desks in rows where extraverts walk around and talk all day, anywhere, at any time. They're also always talking about going to concerts and expensive shows and on vacations with their tech money, because they have smaller apartments and fewer hobbies, so I don't think they'd get my lifestyle. It freaks me out but I'm scared to risk leaving. But I digress.
I also kinda let my roommate with CFS walk all over me. She's supposed to be my live in maid and cook under an informal arrangement, but her condition got worse during the pandemic, and I'm depressed and struggle to make myself happy even with good things, so I'd rather pay for her to try to get better near resources than send her back to her mom's basement in a rural area. It's ruined my ability to make savings and she's supposed to help me move in a paying roommate. I don't see myself as having much of a future so it's hard to get too upset, and I figure if I can get a paying roommate in my apartment things will be better.
I struggle to care enough about myself to get out of bed and brush my teeth. Even though there's a free gym at work and I love weightlifting and exercise in a vacuum, I don't want to be seen by my rich, young coworkers. They feel like my high school classmates to me for reasons I know are stupid. They've never misgendered me or been mean. They just keep me at an arm's length and never ask much about my life. And usually my answer is that I spent my weekend doing chores, code for sleeping and smoking weed to destress after masking all week. I've been on a bare mattress two weeks because I can't get organized enough to fold my laundry, despite being on adhd meds. Weirdly, being chronically late and sad but getting my work done means my boss is never that upset with me so long as I show up at important meetings.
The sex stuff: Basically as long as I can remember, I've had a fat fetish. Specifically, I'm turned on by the idea of being with a woman who's 350 lbs or a woman eager to get that big. Part of it is the idea of being in a long term relationship where I'm doing nice things for someone else, even though I get that making someone obese has medical and social implications and I'm still not sure I'm comfortable with all the ethics at play. I was overweight as a child, and my mom would lecture me about my weight a lot, say through tears that my body is a temple and that I'm asking to die young. She'd get mad at me if I couldn't find clothes that fit before any kind of formal event even though it was her job to get me clothes and kids can grow a lot in the six months between Christmas and Easter.
The other kids in middle school and high school figured it out because I blush easy and the teachers didn't really care if an autistic kid was being bullied so long as there weren't any blows, and I learned to not talk back in grade school. I think they could tell I was queer, and my school had a big special ed department because we were near a neurotoxic superfund site, but the school district was in a rich area so I think the rich kids bound for the Ivies really wanted to feel distinct from us losers. When they figured I was old enough to understand sex, they'd start describing things to see what would get a reaction, and eventually they got that I'm into fat women. The bullying only really let up after one of the bullies got bored and started spraying windex in my face, and that was close enough to real assault the school put their foot down.
All this lead me to think I ought to repress this and learn to develop a sexuality like normal people have. So I dated whoever would ask me out in high school and college. This lead to a serious relationship where I got engaged but not married to an overweight but not fat woman who was very insecure about her weight. She gained about a hundred pounds through no intervention of my own. I was trying to get her into running at the time, because she hated gaining weight, but she was prone to anxious eating. She realized I was more attracted to her, and it horrified her but she didn't want to leave me and end up alone. One day, she asked me if I'm into big women, and I told her I was, and then she asked if I was into women bigger than her, and I answered yes truthfully. She sobbed, and walked out of the room. We never spoke of it again, and I felt profoundly ashamed that the full answer was "Yes, I fantasize about women twice your size trying to get bigger in the context of a long term relationship with someone like me." During sex, I always felt like she wanted me to see her as much thinner than she was, as I was fantasizing if she was huge just to perform.
I realized I was trans, her anxiety got worse to the point she wouldn't sleep through the night without asking me to wake up and comfort her until she could settle down and I felt that she wasn't using therapy right to get through it. So I left, right before I got my degree for my career.
I've had a few one-night stands with women that size. Those times, they kind of asked how I'm into fat women, specifically and anxiously asking about feedism. Which I don't blame them being uncomfortable with, and me just wanting an evening with someone I'm sincerely attracted to and not wanting to spoil the mood, I lied and said no. I don't think that was wrong, I feel like the script implied a false no is a valid answer and the unwritten message is "Treat me like normal horny people treat their horny skinny partners, and don't do anything weird, I'm putting a lot of trust in you" rather than "If a fiber of your being wants me an ounce bigger, I don't want you in my world," but you can tell what my anxiety internalized.
After my engagement, I spent a few years early in transition hoping HRT and a new gender expression would mean I could adopt new sexual scripts and roles and maybe not have one fixation. I found it pretty easy to be pansexual, it was like being with a slim woman. You just imagine someone you're attracted to. Cis men wanted passivity, and trans women seemed desperate to date anyone. Towards the end, I'd find myself getting bored and talking about random things like politics. It was nice being next to someone, and I always found ace/demi relationships weird because I'd get the urge to at least act out sex for the validation, but it also felt very odd basically using someone's body to think about someone else's.
More truama: Then the pandemic happened. My roommate started helping less, and I started spiralling more online. I got laid off, had to move for my current job. The trans support group slash discord that I leaned on after breaking off my engagement and early in my transition decided I was too much, spearheaded by some users who felt I'd grown too vain and materialistic with tech money and a powerlifting hobby. It gutted me, as stupid as that is. These people felt like friends, family that could tell me I was pretty and worth living for instead of just someone useful.
About a year after that, on a family reunion trip, my mom got upset at me for taking too long to get my shoes on after her and my sister occupied the one hotel bathroom most of the morning and I was waiting on them to get to brush my teeth. She started yelling at me for being a narcissist, that the rest of the world can't stop for people like me, that people came from all over the country to be here, and we all agreed to meet for the free hotel breakfast at that time. It hurt a lot, and I yelled at her to stop, because her making me overwhelmed wasn't helping me find the damn shoes. Then my sister screamed at an earsplitting volume. And then yelled "SHE MAKES ME WANT TO KILL MYSELF." And then my mom said "Your sister said you make her want to kill herself when you're like this." At that point, I realized money to buy new stairs wasn't enough, and that I'd never be a good adult to my mom when she's angry.
It all felt pointless. The bullies. The therapists. My mom harping on what the therapists said, and pointing out how risky life is for someone like me who's almost as independent as a neurotypical person. The petty cruelties playing out on the news, the government explicitly saying some people should die if it helps the economy. I stopped exercising and never told my local friends I moved back in town, and that was four years ago. I stopped doing my hair and makeup. I abandoned some expensive projects. I nearly got a PIP at work. What good is tending to the toys of the rich while the ice caps are melting and money can't make my mom always accept me, and I'll never have a family with it?
Therapy:
About a year ago, I started going to my current therapist after that pretty serious depression and burnout and some suicidal ideation (as is common amoung autistic people without intellectual impairment, tbf). I told her much more than my other therapists out of desperation, including a 15 page document explaining my kink and what ethics and religious values I think it conflicts with (I'm a secular member of a church with pretty loose theology, but one generally agreed upon thing is a degree of asceticism and environmental stewardship, which seem at odds with a fetish for frivolously making someone eat a lot of food they don't need when big ag is ruining politics and the climate). Why little things like asking someone to eat off small plates or stuff themselves once or asking a skinny person to wear clothes two sizes small from goodwill isn't the same. She argued that my kink doesn't seem that bad so long as my partner is sane and consents, even at the extremes I find myself fantasizing over, and that I can't really help how my sexuality is wired. At our last session, she said that she thinks I should give myself permission to think I deserve that kind of relationship.
And ugh! I'd like that to be true! But I'm a 35 year old depressed post op trans woman too sad to take care of herself like when I thought I was a project to save my sister, and I'm not even sure how sincerely comfortable cis lesbians are with us in general unless they're chasers. Considering I'd be looking for someone who's got my fetish to the degree they want to become morbidly obese or already are, who's also a lesbian, willing to date trans women, and into me in particular, I'm not even sure where to begin. I've never really dated within a kink, and googling around people do not like my fetish. I feel preemptively guilty when I see a woman I'm attracted to in public, because I know she didn't consent to being thought of that way, and probably would be disgusted at attention from someone like me, probably because her body has a condition she didn't choose and doesn't like. And I could afford to pay her Ozempic if we were dating, and I don't use my money for much other than rent and distractions, so my pattern of attraction in a serious relationship would be doubly hurtful.
WRT dating inside my kink, the fetlife subreddit had a pretty active comment thread arguing people who want to be feeders shouldn't use their site because the kink isn't safe/sane and that it's an inherently abusive and unhealthy dynamic, reinforcing my own anxieties. I tried joining a discord but most people there were in their 20s and didn't seem particularly stable. There's one dating site for the kink, but they block banned my ISPs' IPs because people keep doxxing members and shit and I have to use my phone as a hotspot and all I do is lurk because I have no clue what to say. This is all terribly weird.
I think there's a very real possibility I'll find out I missed the boat on this kind of relationship and will regret not compartmentalizing and repressing this sexual part of myself off like I figured I should have as a teenager. I'm not sure how to process or move on from that grief, and I feel such jealousy and self loathing when I see happy people with their partners and families these days, especially queer people. I don't want to end up as a spiteful incel, and I'm not sure what futures are possible or appropriate. I find living for entertainment or a vague happiness unsatisfying, and maybe that's my problem. My shame makes it really hard for me to feel safe or comfortable making new friends, too, and I'm so worn out after work, and after spiraling so much I pushed away my friends, I'm scared of repeating myself. But argh. My dad died around my age. Mass media is incredibly superficial about age and I'm dating for dumb superficial reasons myself just to get a sincere sexual response. My friends are married and have kids. I feel like I'm at a bad age to not have it together beyond "takes care of one friend who can't work normally." I feel like my life just validates that you can treat an autistic kid like I was treated and end up with engineer business cards, and that makes me sad, knowing how the parents of disabled kids can behave when they hear such stories.
The CPTSD shit: Autism and probably some personality/mood disorders run in the family. My mom is quite high strung and will anxiously lecture/spiral at me for hours. I do that to my friends when I'm upset now, and that's why I don't have a lot of friends. Hence the therapist.
My mom and dad were rich for the 90s, and thought I wasn't social enough, too manipulative, I used too many filler words, didn't pronounce every phoneme right, and was too stubborn, so they took me to the neurologist, and the doctor said I had "Shadows of Aspergers," and gave me a PDD-NOS diagnosis that I just call autism these days. So I went to a lot of speech therapy and child psychologists and when my mom is angry, she'll remind me how much it all cost. My sister ended up needing more.
My father passed away when I was 12, and he was the sole breadwinner. My sister is autistic, probably type 2 in modern parlance? She was nonverbal when she was young but picked words up in special education pretty quickly, and despite having motor skills issues, she's very eager and compliant to meet my mom's every request and need. My mom made sure to get her to every possible therapist and social outing for people of her ability level, and trusted me to be independent since she was only one adult, but she still made time to be critical of me. When she'd relax at home, she'd be watching me and calling me out for using the incorrect word or doing the dishes wrong (I still feel a jolt down my spine when I hear someone talk about hard water stains), eyes right below the edge of her copy of the NY Times. She could be reading an article, or looking at me, so buck up and don't say like or um if I feel the urge to speak.
Meanwhile, both as a child and an adult, I get morose when I'm stressed rather than more compliant, and if you lecture or yell at me while I'm down and ashamed, I'll go into a rage at myself. There were times my mom would yell at me for six hours for something abstract like not taking the college search seriously, and I'd not have any idea how to deescalate and end up kicking a hole in the wall. I'd always end up fixing it to show I care and really didn't want to hurt them or the house. When I'd climb the stairs too fast, she'd yell at me about the home being her one asset and that if I wear out the stairs, she might not have the money to keep my sister in a good hospital if things come to that and she'd be in a state hospital where she'd be raped. She also felt like I wasn't serious enough about masking or developing a personality that wasn't unpleasant. One time, when a relative I was close to was staying over, she pulled me out of bed, in the middle of the night, to tell me that a lot of autistic people like me end up homeless, but that even if we avoid that, if we're nasty, nobody will want anything to do with us, and that she has a cousin like me who's an engineer into ham radio and technology. Nobody liked him in high school, but he makes a lot of money, so he "had to get a mail order bride from the Philippines" and she said she's not sure that was ethical. I started to cry and then she said she thinks they're happy, but that she just wanted me to change. It hurt, to me.
The stair thing had me hoping that if I could make enough money to buy my mom new stairs, maybe she'd like me when I was little again. So even though I was a depressed and lousy student, I muscled through to get a comp sci degree and job as a software engineer and I've worked at two companies. I've been one the past six years but only got promoted once, because I'm truthfully scared to talk to my colleagues and don't fully understand who does what in an office or how to talk to people with a corporate affect or make friends in my current corporate culture. My last work was structured like a chill college where people hang out in mostly quiet offices for each team and people chat, and this one is like a concrete pit of open office standing desks in rows where extraverts walk around and talk all day, anywhere, at any time. They're also always talking about going to concerts and expensive shows and on vacations with their tech money, because they have smaller apartments and fewer hobbies, so I don't think they'd get my lifestyle. It freaks me out but I'm scared to risk leaving. But I digress.
I also kinda let my roommate with CFS walk all over me. She's supposed to be my live in maid and cook under an informal arrangement, but her condition got worse during the pandemic, and I'm depressed and struggle to make myself happy even with good things, so I'd rather pay for her to try to get better near resources than send her back to her mom's basement in a rural area. It's ruined my ability to make savings and she's supposed to help me move in a paying roommate. I don't see myself as having much of a future so it's hard to get too upset, and I figure if I can get a paying roommate in my apartment things will be better.
I struggle to care enough about myself to get out of bed and brush my teeth. Even though there's a free gym at work and I love weightlifting and exercise in a vacuum, I don't want to be seen by my rich, young coworkers. They feel like my high school classmates to me for reasons I know are stupid. They've never misgendered me or been mean. They just keep me at an arm's length and never ask much about my life. And usually my answer is that I spent my weekend doing chores, code for sleeping and smoking weed to destress after masking all week. I've been on a bare mattress two weeks because I can't get organized enough to fold my laundry, despite being on adhd meds. Weirdly, being chronically late and sad but getting my work done means my boss is never that upset with me so long as I show up at important meetings.
The sex stuff: Basically as long as I can remember, I've had a fat fetish. Specifically, I'm turned on by the idea of being with a woman who's 350 lbs or a woman eager to get that big. Part of it is the idea of being in a long term relationship where I'm doing nice things for someone else, even though I get that making someone obese has medical and social implications and I'm still not sure I'm comfortable with all the ethics at play. I was overweight as a child, and my mom would lecture me about my weight a lot, say through tears that my body is a temple and that I'm asking to die young. She'd get mad at me if I couldn't find clothes that fit before any kind of formal event even though it was her job to get me clothes and kids can grow a lot in the six months between Christmas and Easter.
The other kids in middle school and high school figured it out because I blush easy and the teachers didn't really care if an autistic kid was being bullied so long as there weren't any blows, and I learned to not talk back in grade school. I think they could tell I was queer, and my school had a big special ed department because we were near a neurotoxic superfund site, but the school district was in a rich area so I think the rich kids bound for the Ivies really wanted to feel distinct from us losers. When they figured I was old enough to understand sex, they'd start describing things to see what would get a reaction, and eventually they got that I'm into fat women. The bullying only really let up after one of the bullies got bored and started spraying windex in my face, and that was close enough to real assault the school put their foot down.
All this lead me to think I ought to repress this and learn to develop a sexuality like normal people have. So I dated whoever would ask me out in high school and college. This lead to a serious relationship where I got engaged but not married to an overweight but not fat woman who was very insecure about her weight. She gained about a hundred pounds through no intervention of my own. I was trying to get her into running at the time, because she hated gaining weight, but she was prone to anxious eating. She realized I was more attracted to her, and it horrified her but she didn't want to leave me and end up alone. One day, she asked me if I'm into big women, and I told her I was, and then she asked if I was into women bigger than her, and I answered yes truthfully. She sobbed, and walked out of the room. We never spoke of it again, and I felt profoundly ashamed that the full answer was "Yes, I fantasize about women twice your size trying to get bigger in the context of a long term relationship with someone like me." During sex, I always felt like she wanted me to see her as much thinner than she was, as I was fantasizing if she was huge just to perform.
I realized I was trans, her anxiety got worse to the point she wouldn't sleep through the night without asking me to wake up and comfort her until she could settle down and I felt that she wasn't using therapy right to get through it. So I left, right before I got my degree for my career.
I've had a few one-night stands with women that size. Those times, they kind of asked how I'm into fat women, specifically and anxiously asking about feedism. Which I don't blame them being uncomfortable with, and me just wanting an evening with someone I'm sincerely attracted to and not wanting to spoil the mood, I lied and said no. I don't think that was wrong, I feel like the script implied a false no is a valid answer and the unwritten message is "Treat me like normal horny people treat their horny skinny partners, and don't do anything weird, I'm putting a lot of trust in you" rather than "If a fiber of your being wants me an ounce bigger, I don't want you in my world," but you can tell what my anxiety internalized.
After my engagement, I spent a few years early in transition hoping HRT and a new gender expression would mean I could adopt new sexual scripts and roles and maybe not have one fixation. I found it pretty easy to be pansexual, it was like being with a slim woman. You just imagine someone you're attracted to. Cis men wanted passivity, and trans women seemed desperate to date anyone. Towards the end, I'd find myself getting bored and talking about random things like politics. It was nice being next to someone, and I always found ace/demi relationships weird because I'd get the urge to at least act out sex for the validation, but it also felt very odd basically using someone's body to think about someone else's.
More truama: Then the pandemic happened. My roommate started helping less, and I started spiralling more online. I got laid off, had to move for my current job. The trans support group slash discord that I leaned on after breaking off my engagement and early in my transition decided I was too much, spearheaded by some users who felt I'd grown too vain and materialistic with tech money and a powerlifting hobby. It gutted me, as stupid as that is. These people felt like friends, family that could tell me I was pretty and worth living for instead of just someone useful.
About a year after that, on a family reunion trip, my mom got upset at me for taking too long to get my shoes on after her and my sister occupied the one hotel bathroom most of the morning and I was waiting on them to get to brush my teeth. She started yelling at me for being a narcissist, that the rest of the world can't stop for people like me, that people came from all over the country to be here, and we all agreed to meet for the free hotel breakfast at that time. It hurt a lot, and I yelled at her to stop, because her making me overwhelmed wasn't helping me find the damn shoes. Then my sister screamed at an earsplitting volume. And then yelled "SHE MAKES ME WANT TO KILL MYSELF." And then my mom said "Your sister said you make her want to kill herself when you're like this." At that point, I realized money to buy new stairs wasn't enough, and that I'd never be a good adult to my mom when she's angry.
It all felt pointless. The bullies. The therapists. My mom harping on what the therapists said, and pointing out how risky life is for someone like me who's almost as independent as a neurotypical person. The petty cruelties playing out on the news, the government explicitly saying some people should die if it helps the economy. I stopped exercising and never told my local friends I moved back in town, and that was four years ago. I stopped doing my hair and makeup. I abandoned some expensive projects. I nearly got a PIP at work. What good is tending to the toys of the rich while the ice caps are melting and money can't make my mom always accept me, and I'll never have a family with it?
Therapy:
About a year ago, I started going to my current therapist after that pretty serious depression and burnout and some suicidal ideation (as is common amoung autistic people without intellectual impairment, tbf). I told her much more than my other therapists out of desperation, including a 15 page document explaining my kink and what ethics and religious values I think it conflicts with (I'm a secular member of a church with pretty loose theology, but one generally agreed upon thing is a degree of asceticism and environmental stewardship, which seem at odds with a fetish for frivolously making someone eat a lot of food they don't need when big ag is ruining politics and the climate). Why little things like asking someone to eat off small plates or stuff themselves once or asking a skinny person to wear clothes two sizes small from goodwill isn't the same. She argued that my kink doesn't seem that bad so long as my partner is sane and consents, even at the extremes I find myself fantasizing over, and that I can't really help how my sexuality is wired. At our last session, she said that she thinks I should give myself permission to think I deserve that kind of relationship.
And ugh! I'd like that to be true! But I'm a 35 year old depressed post op trans woman too sad to take care of herself like when I thought I was a project to save my sister, and I'm not even sure how sincerely comfortable cis lesbians are with us in general unless they're chasers. Considering I'd be looking for someone who's got my fetish to the degree they want to become morbidly obese or already are, who's also a lesbian, willing to date trans women, and into me in particular, I'm not even sure where to begin. I've never really dated within a kink, and googling around people do not like my fetish. I feel preemptively guilty when I see a woman I'm attracted to in public, because I know she didn't consent to being thought of that way, and probably would be disgusted at attention from someone like me, probably because her body has a condition she didn't choose and doesn't like. And I could afford to pay her Ozempic if we were dating, and I don't use my money for much other than rent and distractions, so my pattern of attraction in a serious relationship would be doubly hurtful.
WRT dating inside my kink, the fetlife subreddit had a pretty active comment thread arguing people who want to be feeders shouldn't use their site because the kink isn't safe/sane and that it's an inherently abusive and unhealthy dynamic, reinforcing my own anxieties. I tried joining a discord but most people there were in their 20s and didn't seem particularly stable. There's one dating site for the kink, but they block banned my ISPs' IPs because people keep doxxing members and shit and I have to use my phone as a hotspot and all I do is lurk because I have no clue what to say. This is all terribly weird.
I think there's a very real possibility I'll find out I missed the boat on this kind of relationship and will regret not compartmentalizing and repressing this sexual part of myself off like I figured I should have as a teenager. I'm not sure how to process or move on from that grief, and I feel such jealousy and self loathing when I see happy people with their partners and families these days, especially queer people. I don't want to end up as a spiteful incel, and I'm not sure what futures are possible or appropriate. I find living for entertainment or a vague happiness unsatisfying, and maybe that's my problem. My shame makes it really hard for me to feel safe or comfortable making new friends, too, and I'm so worn out after work, and after spiraling so much I pushed away my friends, I'm scared of repeating myself. But argh. My dad died around my age. Mass media is incredibly superficial about age and I'm dating for dumb superficial reasons myself just to get a sincere sexual response. My friends are married and have kids. I feel like I'm at a bad age to not have it together beyond "takes care of one friend who can't work normally." I feel like my life just validates that you can treat an autistic kid like I was treated and end up with engineer business cards, and that makes me sad, knowing how the parents of disabled kids can behave when they hear such stories.
I think the broadest question I can see is how to date given everything, ethically. I suppose one question is: do you think that you would feel comfortable and satisfied if you were feeding someone to keep the same size if they were at the size that made you happy? Ie, if they were already 350ish pounds, and you were making them food for them to cheerfully remain at that level rather than get larger?
posted by corb at 10:06 AM on June 19
posted by corb at 10:06 AM on June 19
Response by poster: @Bella Dona, totally fair! Corb mostly has it:
How I can I date like I am, in a way that's honest and fulfilling for everyone? And if that's not possible and I'm left with ace-spectrum romance and platonic relationships that don't even offer me the extrinsic motivation of sex, and I struggle to want that more than isolation and weed, how do I move on?
posted by MuppetNavy at 10:32 AM on June 19 [1 favorite]
How I can I date like I am, in a way that's honest and fulfilling for everyone? And if that's not possible and I'm left with ace-spectrum romance and platonic relationships that don't even offer me the extrinsic motivation of sex, and I struggle to want that more than isolation and weed, how do I move on?
posted by MuppetNavy at 10:32 AM on June 19 [1 favorite]
No, I don’t think you are going to be able to create a life where you find an overweight woman and feed her mercilessly until you have created an obese woman. Even if you did, that dynamic would only be sustainable for a while; at some point, she wouldn’t physically be able to gain any more weight, so the relationship would no longer serve your needs. But that’s true about all fetishes, in a way. They have a kind of self-perpetuating energy that pushes them to extremes, the kinds of extremes that can only be realized in fantasy.
If you have been spending a lot of time alone in your head with this fantasy, and especially if you have been consuming a lot of porn, and especially if you’re struggling in other areas, this is a pretty natural progression. You start out being like, I’m kind of into a submissive power dynamic, it might be fun to get pushed around, and three weeks later you’re deep in the far reaches of the dark web being like, my sexuality can only be satisfied by signing all of my life choices over to someone who’s going to lock me in a basement and feed me cornflakes out of a dog bowl for the rest of my life, or whatever. It’s just to say: you’re not alone, it happens. But what feels true now — that you will only ever be satisfied by experiencing this fantasy in its most extreme form—will not be true forever. Take a step back from both dating and fantasizing, and try to take care of yourself. You’re in a really really tough situation right now. You need to be your own first priority.
Once you’re a little more grounded, and you’re looking to take yourself back out in the world, I’d say this. You’re attracted to fat people. That’s not weird, lots and lots of people are. There’s also a D/S dynamic, where you want to serve and care for the person. Also, not weird! Underneath that, there’s probably some core of shame/anger you’re wrestling with—I love her but I’m doing this thing that’s kind of bad for her, that might make her less desirable to others and bind her to me more closely, that she might feel ambivalent about, that other people might find perverse/disgusting, etc. This is more painful, but it is ALSO not weird. It is very very common, especially in abuse survivors, which, given your background, you very clearly are. This is the aspect of the fantasy that is pushing it into fetish territory, and which I think will make it difficult for you to date now, but can and will be drawn down with good therapy. Not enough to eradicate it entirely, but enough that it can serve as fuel for a healthy, consensual, and kinky relationship with someone who has overlapping desires.
That outcome, which is a good one, seems very possible for you. The first step is to pause. The second is to take a break from fetish related content. The third is to take care of yourself. Better days are ahead, I promise.
posted by Merricat Blackwood at 10:45 AM on June 19 [21 favorites]
If you have been spending a lot of time alone in your head with this fantasy, and especially if you have been consuming a lot of porn, and especially if you’re struggling in other areas, this is a pretty natural progression. You start out being like, I’m kind of into a submissive power dynamic, it might be fun to get pushed around, and three weeks later you’re deep in the far reaches of the dark web being like, my sexuality can only be satisfied by signing all of my life choices over to someone who’s going to lock me in a basement and feed me cornflakes out of a dog bowl for the rest of my life, or whatever. It’s just to say: you’re not alone, it happens. But what feels true now — that you will only ever be satisfied by experiencing this fantasy in its most extreme form—will not be true forever. Take a step back from both dating and fantasizing, and try to take care of yourself. You’re in a really really tough situation right now. You need to be your own first priority.
Once you’re a little more grounded, and you’re looking to take yourself back out in the world, I’d say this. You’re attracted to fat people. That’s not weird, lots and lots of people are. There’s also a D/S dynamic, where you want to serve and care for the person. Also, not weird! Underneath that, there’s probably some core of shame/anger you’re wrestling with—I love her but I’m doing this thing that’s kind of bad for her, that might make her less desirable to others and bind her to me more closely, that she might feel ambivalent about, that other people might find perverse/disgusting, etc. This is more painful, but it is ALSO not weird. It is very very common, especially in abuse survivors, which, given your background, you very clearly are. This is the aspect of the fantasy that is pushing it into fetish territory, and which I think will make it difficult for you to date now, but can and will be drawn down with good therapy. Not enough to eradicate it entirely, but enough that it can serve as fuel for a healthy, consensual, and kinky relationship with someone who has overlapping desires.
That outcome, which is a good one, seems very possible for you. The first step is to pause. The second is to take a break from fetish related content. The third is to take care of yourself. Better days are ahead, I promise.
posted by Merricat Blackwood at 10:45 AM on June 19 [21 favorites]
6. Keep working through your depression and PTSD and living situation and don't tie yourself to a fixed idea of who and what and when you want but instead work towards a cognitive flexibility where you make decisions based on real situations as they occur.
You've been dealt a shitty hand and dating is shitty too even for the luckiest among us. I wish i could be as simple as answering a multiple choice question, and I know people on the spectrum value having defined categories, but sadly life doesn't bend to that. And you deserve to heal regardless.
posted by mermaidcafe at 11:02 AM on June 19 [7 favorites]
You've been dealt a shitty hand and dating is shitty too even for the luckiest among us. I wish i could be as simple as answering a multiple choice question, and I know people on the spectrum value having defined categories, but sadly life doesn't bend to that. And you deserve to heal regardless.
posted by mermaidcafe at 11:02 AM on June 19 [7 favorites]
You’re in a really really tough situation right now. You need to be your own first priority.
Yeah, I realize this isn't quite your question, but there is a lot in your post that makes clear you're really struggling right now. What does your therapist say about your mom? Have they suggested you maybe cut them off?
Anyway, dating is hard, dating is very hard if you're struggling with basic daily functioning. I'd focus more on trying to get to a point where you're ready to date in a year or so. Maybe that will mean needing to move/get a housemate who can help pay rent, maybe find a therapist who does CBT, etc. Work on rebuilding friendships. Once you're a bit more stable, you'll be a much more attractive partner - including to overweight women who may at the very least not be aiming to lose weight.
posted by coffeecat at 11:14 AM on June 19 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I realize this isn't quite your question, but there is a lot in your post that makes clear you're really struggling right now. What does your therapist say about your mom? Have they suggested you maybe cut them off?
Anyway, dating is hard, dating is very hard if you're struggling with basic daily functioning. I'd focus more on trying to get to a point where you're ready to date in a year or so. Maybe that will mean needing to move/get a housemate who can help pay rent, maybe find a therapist who does CBT, etc. Work on rebuilding friendships. Once you're a bit more stable, you'll be a much more attractive partner - including to overweight women who may at the very least not be aiming to lose weight.
posted by coffeecat at 11:14 AM on June 19 [3 favorites]
Mod note: FYI, deleted some comments. Let's keep this thread with answers to the original post only.
posted by loup (staff) at 11:28 AM on June 19 [1 favorite]
posted by loup (staff) at 11:28 AM on June 19 [1 favorite]
I would truly love to be with someone already that size who wanted me to help maintain their weight. That's a role in the community. I'm not sure how many people are like that and would want me.
My sense is that this kink likely comes from a place which has suffered from being suppressed. You were overweight as a child, and were shamed for it. You probably had some inclination towards larger women - larger women means larger breasts and larger hips. And the fact that you were shamed for liking larger women meant that it intensified, so a preference larger women becomes a preference for a specific size of larger woman. I think also that your preference for weight over size may suggest that you're not really sure exactly what you want. A significantly taller or broader boned woman can carry more weight more naturally, for example - would that still work for you, or does it have to be someone who is specifically bursting through societal standards such that they are condemned by society?
Especially if the former would work, I don't know that you could find someone that size who specifically wanted you to help maintain their weight. But you might well be able to find someone that size who didn't really care about their weight, and convince them that you found them beautiful as they were, and that your only delight in the world would be making them happy and satisfying their every need and cooking for them. And that might be a good way to get your needs met as well as theirs met.
posted by corb at 11:57 AM on June 19 [2 favorites]
My sense is that this kink likely comes from a place which has suffered from being suppressed. You were overweight as a child, and were shamed for it. You probably had some inclination towards larger women - larger women means larger breasts and larger hips. And the fact that you were shamed for liking larger women meant that it intensified, so a preference larger women becomes a preference for a specific size of larger woman. I think also that your preference for weight over size may suggest that you're not really sure exactly what you want. A significantly taller or broader boned woman can carry more weight more naturally, for example - would that still work for you, or does it have to be someone who is specifically bursting through societal standards such that they are condemned by society?
Especially if the former would work, I don't know that you could find someone that size who specifically wanted you to help maintain their weight. But you might well be able to find someone that size who didn't really care about their weight, and convince them that you found them beautiful as they were, and that your only delight in the world would be making them happy and satisfying their every need and cooking for them. And that might be a good way to get your needs met as well as theirs met.
posted by corb at 11:57 AM on June 19 [2 favorites]
Look into ethical fetishism. Like, loving and being attracted to fat women, but not influencing their food and weight choices. I have no expertise in ethical fetishism, but it's a starting point. I assume honesty is a core principal. Date. Don't wait, because life's short and you have love to give and someone will love you. Other people are Going Through Stuff, too, so be ready to listen as well as talk.
I had an antagonistic mother. Initially, I moved 1,000 miles away, didn't have a phone (late 70s) so I was hard to reach but not no-contact. I changed my behavior to my Mom, did not accept unkindness - left the conversation, the house, the the town, as needed. Did not confront because it was not effective. Over time, we forged an okay relationship. it wasn't easy, but it was worthwhile. Read Stop Walking on Eggshells. Do not accept unkindness, esp. from the people who are supposed to care for you.
You are struggling on so many levels. I'm so sorry. Work on ways to learn self-acceptance. It's not at all too late for you to learn, grow, accept and love yourself, and to have a healthy relationship, with or without your kink, as you choose.
posted by theora55 at 12:29 PM on June 19 [2 favorites]
I had an antagonistic mother. Initially, I moved 1,000 miles away, didn't have a phone (late 70s) so I was hard to reach but not no-contact. I changed my behavior to my Mom, did not accept unkindness - left the conversation, the house, the the town, as needed. Did not confront because it was not effective. Over time, we forged an okay relationship. it wasn't easy, but it was worthwhile. Read Stop Walking on Eggshells. Do not accept unkindness, esp. from the people who are supposed to care for you.
You are struggling on so many levels. I'm so sorry. Work on ways to learn self-acceptance. It's not at all too late for you to learn, grow, accept and love yourself, and to have a healthy relationship, with or without your kink, as you choose.
posted by theora55 at 12:29 PM on June 19 [2 favorites]
You are just as deserving of love as everybody else. You deserve fulfilling romantic, platonic, familial, and sexual love. Maybe those will all be from different people, maybe some might overlap.
Have you thought about open or poly relationships where you might be romantically involved with someone you don’t have sex with, and sexually involved with someone you are otherwise casual friends with? Have you ever experienced found family, with people who are devoted to helping each other feel safe and belonging in the world, even though they aren’t legally related?
I think that, as a queer person, you probably have at least superficially considered the appeal or lack thereof of these kinds of things to you, but maybe given your personal history you haven’t allowed yourself to work to make them happen or come together. Possibly because you think you don’t deserve it, maybe because you have such minimal emotional resources remaining after everything you talk about here. But you do deserve them. You deserve family that loves you and wants you to feel secure and able to experience whatever interests you. You deserve friends who think you are fun and cool to spend time with. You deserve lovers who think you are hot and like your body and mind. You deserve romantic partners who cherish you and allow you to cherish them in return. Just because all of these things are hard to acquire and experience does not mean you are undeserving of them.
I think that in light of everything you wrote, you need to approach this more holistically. Not like, hippie bullshit holistic, but more literally in the sense of viewing yourself as a whole complex intertwined pile of systems and experiences and feelings and skills. Maybe it’s just your writing style but I got the impression that you have sort of compartmentalized a lot of aspects of yourself that you dislike or consider unloveable, and don’t much think about the parts you do like or are proud of. Instead, could you try to see your fetish as just one component of what makes you yourself?
One thing that immediately comes to mind would be to reach out and find fellow autistic friends with different support needs. Especially if you can find some people in your local community. Your sister has all the family trauma wrapped up with her, so you might not have considered what it would be like to have a friendly group of autistic folks to spend time with without the huge pile of traumatic baggage. You mention a lot of trouble with online support groups and communities, but have you ever tried things in person? It is scary, but can also be better because stuff like meetups and clubs and similar are scheduled and you’re not constantly online, trying to mingle in a time-disconnected fashion. And also there is a lot of physical stuff that can be expressed in person, like posture and body language and stims and stuff, that don’t do well in digital formats, but can be incredible to experience acceptance of from other people.
As for the fetish stuff, I think it would be helpful try to explore other kinds of fantasies and see what else works for you. They could be closely related or not, but what about the really impossible things? For example, inflation fetishists are incredibly creative and pretty ubiquitous online but I’m pretty sure nobody is out there convinced they will never know love if they can’t inflate their butt with helium, you know? Instead, they use their fantasies to create shared worlds and emotions with others who share their fascinations. I absolutely think you can find someone who shares your interests and can passionately fantasize with you, even if you’re not actually popping buttons after every meal.
If you can work on respecting and loving yourself, making different kinds of lasting connections with others, and try to work through and let go of the hell your mother heaped on you bit by bit, you will be figure out what sex and dating should be like for you. I think that the isolation is a feedback loop. It’s not that you are isolating yourself because you are unable to ethically date anyone. It’s that your isolation reinforces the way that you feel so you isolate more. When you aren’t isolating you’re masking and that piles up incredibly quickly. When you’re not masking you’re alone so you start to think the only time you can be yourself is when you are by yourself. And it goes on. Start small and give yourself a lot of grace to stop and start over and change tacks, but if you can fight back against some of the isolation I think it will help a lot.
posted by Mizu at 5:59 PM on June 19 [7 favorites]
Have you thought about open or poly relationships where you might be romantically involved with someone you don’t have sex with, and sexually involved with someone you are otherwise casual friends with? Have you ever experienced found family, with people who are devoted to helping each other feel safe and belonging in the world, even though they aren’t legally related?
I think that, as a queer person, you probably have at least superficially considered the appeal or lack thereof of these kinds of things to you, but maybe given your personal history you haven’t allowed yourself to work to make them happen or come together. Possibly because you think you don’t deserve it, maybe because you have such minimal emotional resources remaining after everything you talk about here. But you do deserve them. You deserve family that loves you and wants you to feel secure and able to experience whatever interests you. You deserve friends who think you are fun and cool to spend time with. You deserve lovers who think you are hot and like your body and mind. You deserve romantic partners who cherish you and allow you to cherish them in return. Just because all of these things are hard to acquire and experience does not mean you are undeserving of them.
I think that in light of everything you wrote, you need to approach this more holistically. Not like, hippie bullshit holistic, but more literally in the sense of viewing yourself as a whole complex intertwined pile of systems and experiences and feelings and skills. Maybe it’s just your writing style but I got the impression that you have sort of compartmentalized a lot of aspects of yourself that you dislike or consider unloveable, and don’t much think about the parts you do like or are proud of. Instead, could you try to see your fetish as just one component of what makes you yourself?
One thing that immediately comes to mind would be to reach out and find fellow autistic friends with different support needs. Especially if you can find some people in your local community. Your sister has all the family trauma wrapped up with her, so you might not have considered what it would be like to have a friendly group of autistic folks to spend time with without the huge pile of traumatic baggage. You mention a lot of trouble with online support groups and communities, but have you ever tried things in person? It is scary, but can also be better because stuff like meetups and clubs and similar are scheduled and you’re not constantly online, trying to mingle in a time-disconnected fashion. And also there is a lot of physical stuff that can be expressed in person, like posture and body language and stims and stuff, that don’t do well in digital formats, but can be incredible to experience acceptance of from other people.
As for the fetish stuff, I think it would be helpful try to explore other kinds of fantasies and see what else works for you. They could be closely related or not, but what about the really impossible things? For example, inflation fetishists are incredibly creative and pretty ubiquitous online but I’m pretty sure nobody is out there convinced they will never know love if they can’t inflate their butt with helium, you know? Instead, they use their fantasies to create shared worlds and emotions with others who share their fascinations. I absolutely think you can find someone who shares your interests and can passionately fantasize with you, even if you’re not actually popping buttons after every meal.
If you can work on respecting and loving yourself, making different kinds of lasting connections with others, and try to work through and let go of the hell your mother heaped on you bit by bit, you will be figure out what sex and dating should be like for you. I think that the isolation is a feedback loop. It’s not that you are isolating yourself because you are unable to ethically date anyone. It’s that your isolation reinforces the way that you feel so you isolate more. When you aren’t isolating you’re masking and that piles up incredibly quickly. When you’re not masking you’re alone so you start to think the only time you can be yourself is when you are by yourself. And it goes on. Start small and give yourself a lot of grace to stop and start over and change tacks, but if you can fight back against some of the isolation I think it will help a lot.
posted by Mizu at 5:59 PM on June 19 [7 favorites]
First thing, I commend you on being so open and honest with your therapist. It’s not easy to do and was such a great first step in improving your life. I can only imagine how stressful your situation is.
There are so many fetishes out there that can never happen in real life. I think being on the spectrum tends to make that kind of fantasy really confusing for some people. The fakeness of it kind of glitches in your head a little bit. But even classic fantasies like bondage, if done an irresponsible way, rely on the fact that they are not being done in reality (the person being tied up can be freed if they ask anytime). There are also a ton of fetishes, or sexual preferences, like people who enjoy furry stuff, that are impossible in real life.
What would you do if your fantasy were literally impossible? Would you talk about it with your partner to help involve them in your fantasy? Would you be interested in verbalizing it with your partner? If you would, could you think about doing that for this situation?
These are questions for you to think about, so no need to answer :)
Some more things to think about would be how much this is about your relationship style and your relationship preferences separated from sexual preferences. It’s very common for sexual preferences and romantic preferences to be very closely entwined. That is completely normal and understandable! But it’s not always practical to have a complete one-to-one.
It might be that you best express love and care through providing material things and support. There may be ways that you can do that that fulfill your need but that are healthier long-term. For example, cooking for a loved one can be a great way to connect even if you’re not having them gain weight. This could, like romance often does, be intertwined with sex, so your partner might eat a particularly large meal, talk throughout about how she’s going to gain weight with your help, and then you could head to the bedroom. But you could do that with an eye towards her safety by making sure she eats a reasonable amount throughout the day (so maybe she just has a small breakfast and skips lunch).
To give a summary here, there’s nothing wrong with fetishes that would, if you really engaged in them, be harmful. You need to be thoughtful about making sure you engage in them safely and ethically. But that can absolutely be done.
Another option is to engage in this particular type of sexual fantasy with someone who you pay.
Finally, I would very gently suggest that you not take what people say on the Internet very seriously. I know it is a trait of autism to sometimes think about things in black-and-white, but I want to suggest that you consider that you have to live your life even if some people might feel critical of it. It’s not possible to live without people disliking you or criticizing you. if you are able to live ethically by your standards, that is what matters.
I would also like to respectfully suggest that reading negative opinions about people like you can be a form of self harm. Given that you were raised in a very critical environment, I worry a bit about whether this behavior is healthy for you. This may be something to discuss with your therapist.
Good luck! You seem like a really kind person dealt a really rough hand and I am confident that if you keep working on things and therapy you will improve greatly in your ability to enjoy life.
posted by knobknosher at 8:21 PM on June 19 [5 favorites]
There are so many fetishes out there that can never happen in real life. I think being on the spectrum tends to make that kind of fantasy really confusing for some people. The fakeness of it kind of glitches in your head a little bit. But even classic fantasies like bondage, if done an irresponsible way, rely on the fact that they are not being done in reality (the person being tied up can be freed if they ask anytime). There are also a ton of fetishes, or sexual preferences, like people who enjoy furry stuff, that are impossible in real life.
What would you do if your fantasy were literally impossible? Would you talk about it with your partner to help involve them in your fantasy? Would you be interested in verbalizing it with your partner? If you would, could you think about doing that for this situation?
These are questions for you to think about, so no need to answer :)
Some more things to think about would be how much this is about your relationship style and your relationship preferences separated from sexual preferences. It’s very common for sexual preferences and romantic preferences to be very closely entwined. That is completely normal and understandable! But it’s not always practical to have a complete one-to-one.
It might be that you best express love and care through providing material things and support. There may be ways that you can do that that fulfill your need but that are healthier long-term. For example, cooking for a loved one can be a great way to connect even if you’re not having them gain weight. This could, like romance often does, be intertwined with sex, so your partner might eat a particularly large meal, talk throughout about how she’s going to gain weight with your help, and then you could head to the bedroom. But you could do that with an eye towards her safety by making sure she eats a reasonable amount throughout the day (so maybe she just has a small breakfast and skips lunch).
To give a summary here, there’s nothing wrong with fetishes that would, if you really engaged in them, be harmful. You need to be thoughtful about making sure you engage in them safely and ethically. But that can absolutely be done.
Another option is to engage in this particular type of sexual fantasy with someone who you pay.
Finally, I would very gently suggest that you not take what people say on the Internet very seriously. I know it is a trait of autism to sometimes think about things in black-and-white, but I want to suggest that you consider that you have to live your life even if some people might feel critical of it. It’s not possible to live without people disliking you or criticizing you. if you are able to live ethically by your standards, that is what matters.
I would also like to respectfully suggest that reading negative opinions about people like you can be a form of self harm. Given that you were raised in a very critical environment, I worry a bit about whether this behavior is healthy for you. This may be something to discuss with your therapist.
Good luck! You seem like a really kind person dealt a really rough hand and I am confident that if you keep working on things and therapy you will improve greatly in your ability to enjoy life.
posted by knobknosher at 8:21 PM on June 19 [5 favorites]
I don’t know if I made my point about romance very well, but it could be that you could be romantically satisfied by being generous and caring in another way, and in the bedroom, the more specific version of your fetish could take the front seat, so to speak.
Also, it’s very common for people to fantasize during sex. Sometimes you can involve your partner in these fantasies, sometimes people are OK with you fantasizing. Some people really want you to be very connected to them, make lots of eye contact, etc. but not everyone feels that way. I’m not saying you should have sex that is unsatisfying or that feels bad to you, but do want to normalize fantasizing about things that may not be happening.
posted by knobknosher at 8:30 PM on June 19
Also, it’s very common for people to fantasize during sex. Sometimes you can involve your partner in these fantasies, sometimes people are OK with you fantasizing. Some people really want you to be very connected to them, make lots of eye contact, etc. but not everyone feels that way. I’m not saying you should have sex that is unsatisfying or that feels bad to you, but do want to normalize fantasizing about things that may not be happening.
posted by knobknosher at 8:30 PM on June 19
I don't know what your therapist says, but it seems like you are conditioned to feel shame about anything related to yourself -- your preferences, your emotions, your right to breathe air. Your attractions. It seems like you feel like if you want it, it must be shameful, wrong, and unethical. It's not.
It's okay to like what you like and pursue what you like, assuming consent and ethical power dynamics. There are women who are the weight you prefer who are not necessarily interested in dieting to become a more average size. If they agree to go out with you, you can date them. If you two vibe, you can be together. Beyond that, in terms of "feedism," you just don't do that. You just support them in their own choices about their body. AND you can enjoy your own fantasies that you don't necessarily act out just like everyone else. Most people have more extreme fantasy scenarios that they might share with a lover or keep to themselves. They are fantasies, and it's normal.
Do you feel like you would be happy with a woman the size you prefer who is happy being who she is, without trying to increase her weight? Like you could have fantasies about that, but in real life, you're just happy to be with her as she is?
If that is the level of relationship you seek, how is that a fetish? Why is it not considered a fetish when someone encourages or demands that their partner exercise and diet to the point that they suffer serious, potentially life-threatening conditions? Some people (usually men) actually restrict calories for their partners (usually women) to achieve a specific body ideal. How is that not shameful? Why is that not considered a dangerous fetish?
The answer is that the ruling majority will always impose its preferences on society, to the degree that anyone not enthusiastically aligning with those preferences is considered perverse, abnormal, unholy, sick, perverted, etc., and society will bend and conform to enable and enforce the desires of the ruling class in every way. Almost all entertainment and media will portray their desires and inclinations as righteous, healthy, appropriate, and natural, and anything else suspect or bizarre at the very least, if not downright deviant, immoral or even criminal (historically, for example, homosexuality, mixed race relationships.)
But guess what. It's okay to walk on the stairs. Society will not break down and dissolve because you like very big women. It's not de facto abusive to like very big women. Trying to coerce a person to become fatter isn't okay, just like trying to coerce a person to become much thinner is not okay, but seeking a partner of the size you prefer? Isn't that just what everyone does? I feel like you are paralyzed by over-analysis and the certainty that you are wrong to feel whatever you feel (from childhood emotional abuse).
Work on simplifying the picture: you'd like to meet, date, and, with luck, have a committed relationship with someone you care for who preferably has certain physical traits, who is happy with themselves as they are, and happy to be with someone who appreciates them as they are. There! Is that so loony? You also may have sexual fantasies involving this person that do not coincide with real life. In fantasy, they may become as huge and majestic as some sort of giant mythical figure. Okay! Everything is still okay!
Go ahead and walk on those stairs; that's what they're there for, to get you to where you want to be!
posted by taz at 8:20 AM on June 20 [3 favorites]
It's okay to like what you like and pursue what you like, assuming consent and ethical power dynamics. There are women who are the weight you prefer who are not necessarily interested in dieting to become a more average size. If they agree to go out with you, you can date them. If you two vibe, you can be together. Beyond that, in terms of "feedism," you just don't do that. You just support them in their own choices about their body. AND you can enjoy your own fantasies that you don't necessarily act out just like everyone else. Most people have more extreme fantasy scenarios that they might share with a lover or keep to themselves. They are fantasies, and it's normal.
Do you feel like you would be happy with a woman the size you prefer who is happy being who she is, without trying to increase her weight? Like you could have fantasies about that, but in real life, you're just happy to be with her as she is?
If that is the level of relationship you seek, how is that a fetish? Why is it not considered a fetish when someone encourages or demands that their partner exercise and diet to the point that they suffer serious, potentially life-threatening conditions? Some people (usually men) actually restrict calories for their partners (usually women) to achieve a specific body ideal. How is that not shameful? Why is that not considered a dangerous fetish?
The answer is that the ruling majority will always impose its preferences on society, to the degree that anyone not enthusiastically aligning with those preferences is considered perverse, abnormal, unholy, sick, perverted, etc., and society will bend and conform to enable and enforce the desires of the ruling class in every way. Almost all entertainment and media will portray their desires and inclinations as righteous, healthy, appropriate, and natural, and anything else suspect or bizarre at the very least, if not downright deviant, immoral or even criminal (historically, for example, homosexuality, mixed race relationships.)
But guess what. It's okay to walk on the stairs. Society will not break down and dissolve because you like very big women. It's not de facto abusive to like very big women. Trying to coerce a person to become fatter isn't okay, just like trying to coerce a person to become much thinner is not okay, but seeking a partner of the size you prefer? Isn't that just what everyone does? I feel like you are paralyzed by over-analysis and the certainty that you are wrong to feel whatever you feel (from childhood emotional abuse).
Work on simplifying the picture: you'd like to meet, date, and, with luck, have a committed relationship with someone you care for who preferably has certain physical traits, who is happy with themselves as they are, and happy to be with someone who appreciates them as they are. There! Is that so loony? You also may have sexual fantasies involving this person that do not coincide with real life. In fantasy, they may become as huge and majestic as some sort of giant mythical figure. Okay! Everything is still okay!
Go ahead and walk on those stairs; that's what they're there for, to get you to where you want to be!
posted by taz at 8:20 AM on June 20 [3 favorites]
Mod note: From the OP:
I feel the need to emphasize that consent is important to me, so I really wouldn't find my partner losing control or autonomy a good thing. I find women are more beautiful and attractive at that size. It's as inexplicable as any other feeling and I don't feel much when I see anyone else. It's just not a negotiable part of my sexuality after 22 years of being aware of it and unable to change it. This isn't degrading in my mind but them becoming extremely beautiful. There are plenty of people like me who'd agree.posted by loup (staff) at 12:20 PM on June 20
I also should have made myself clearer about limits. I wouldn't necessarily count on or need my partner to reach a goal weight of 350 lbs, (which is the size of an average height woman I find attractive, without needing the context of my fetish). Her wanting to be fat is the most attractive thing, not whether or not she actually gets that size. That would take time and if she's not enthusiastically consenting, I wouldn't want to continue and it's pretty likely she'd either want to take a break or stop or life would get in the way. But I strongly think they'd need to have an innate desire like mine to practice the kink to some extent, even like a smaller gain, or they gained intentionally in the past and then lost it. I want to be understood and get to at least fantasize about it alongside someone I love, rather than someone who endures it.
I know that doesn't quite make sense, but I loathe not feeling safe or trusted or present in relationships by hiding such a core part of my libido. Everyone I've been with is so insecure about their weight. People talk about it all the time, and people go out to eat on dates. To tell someone about this weird domestic lifestyle kink is to risk always upsetting the person I love.
I feel like I'm not up to the work of being a fun and present friend or group member now that I'm dealing with some crushing feelings of nihilism and no longer see much of a future ahead without family other than my mom, sister, cat, and roommate. I'm also trying to keep up on assignments at work even without a life at home. Like I'm just here to play videogames and appreciate that nobody's breathing down my neck all day. My therapist and I are working on it, and I admitted I probably would turn things around if I could see myself getting in a relationship, which is how I ended up having to tell her all this and was surprised to not get outright condemnation.
Finally, my mom is easy to love when I don't live with her, because I can put down the phone and that means there's an easy and low conflict boundary. I think she was truly just stressed and understandably angry that she had to be responsible for so much on her own. There's some things that really hurt and I'm working to make peace with. But I also like how similar she is to me on top of loving her because she's my mom. And I want to be here for her and my sister if I can't really have a long term partner I'm attracted to by whatever route.
Her wanting to be fat is the most attractive thing, not whether or not she actually gets that size.
This is something that can be experienced as a mutual fantasy by someone who also finds it compelling or who is interested in your reactions to the fantasy. Plenty of women enjoy doing or saying things that turn their partner on even if it's not 10000% their fetish. I would say once kink gets involved, the vast majority of romantic couples are people who overlap to some extent, but not 100%, but they enjoy fulfilling the other partner's interests.
I would suggest that you work with your therapist on being more flexible about your standards for dating. As noted above, it's very common for people who have not dated much to have standards that are rigid and inflexible. Sometimes that is a result of just not having experience with navigating relationships, and overestimating how much a "perfect fit" you need to make a relationship mutually satisfying. Sometimes it is a subconscious way to avoid something that can feel overwhelmingly emotionally risky: entering into a relationship that might not work out, or a relationship in which you might face heavy or even abusive criticism, which is something you associate with close relationships. If you have a challenging relationship with your mother, it's very reasonable to want to protect yourself by creating insurmountable barriers to having a close relationship with a woman. However, you may want to work on coming up with a way to address your fears about relationships in a way that allows you a better chance of reaching your goals.
I would also consider looking into relationship OCD as a possible issue here. Dating and relationships are certainly important, but what seems to be going on here seems like you might be experiencing a form of anxiety that you are trying to solve by rumination--that is, thinking about the same thing a lot, over and over. Relationship OCD can be a tough diagnosis for therapists to spot because to some extent, it's their job to address certain concerns/anxieties, so you discussing them in therapy seems normal. However, outside of therapy, dwelling on those same concerns and anxieties to the extent that it's distressing and interfering with your life may be a problem. If relationship OCD or even just excessive rumination about dating and sex are issues for you, I would suggest discussing that with your therapist and asking them what kinds of therapeutic techniques might be helpful for you.
posted by knobknosher at 3:17 PM on June 20 [7 favorites]
This is something that can be experienced as a mutual fantasy by someone who also finds it compelling or who is interested in your reactions to the fantasy. Plenty of women enjoy doing or saying things that turn their partner on even if it's not 10000% their fetish. I would say once kink gets involved, the vast majority of romantic couples are people who overlap to some extent, but not 100%, but they enjoy fulfilling the other partner's interests.
I would suggest that you work with your therapist on being more flexible about your standards for dating. As noted above, it's very common for people who have not dated much to have standards that are rigid and inflexible. Sometimes that is a result of just not having experience with navigating relationships, and overestimating how much a "perfect fit" you need to make a relationship mutually satisfying. Sometimes it is a subconscious way to avoid something that can feel overwhelmingly emotionally risky: entering into a relationship that might not work out, or a relationship in which you might face heavy or even abusive criticism, which is something you associate with close relationships. If you have a challenging relationship with your mother, it's very reasonable to want to protect yourself by creating insurmountable barriers to having a close relationship with a woman. However, you may want to work on coming up with a way to address your fears about relationships in a way that allows you a better chance of reaching your goals.
I would also consider looking into relationship OCD as a possible issue here. Dating and relationships are certainly important, but what seems to be going on here seems like you might be experiencing a form of anxiety that you are trying to solve by rumination--that is, thinking about the same thing a lot, over and over. Relationship OCD can be a tough diagnosis for therapists to spot because to some extent, it's their job to address certain concerns/anxieties, so you discussing them in therapy seems normal. However, outside of therapy, dwelling on those same concerns and anxieties to the extent that it's distressing and interfering with your life may be a problem. If relationship OCD or even just excessive rumination about dating and sex are issues for you, I would suggest discussing that with your therapist and asking them what kinds of therapeutic techniques might be helpful for you.
posted by knobknosher at 3:17 PM on June 20 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: I think it also isn't clear that I'm saying this as like, I'm not ace and have trouble becoming ace and many women of that size would be uncomfortable with anyone who has that fetish, practicing or not, cis or not. I think most fat women wouldn't want a partner like this unless they have a similar kink, and those women will probably not want a depressed trans woman.
It feels very probable that dating will just be trauma ending in me realizing I'm alone save for pretending to be attracted to cis men and trans women who aren't fat, which I found depressing and boring. A lot of people end up celibate or not enjoying sex despite having a libido. What do I do in that case? How do I stop feeling jealous of people attracted to their wives?
posted by MuppetNavy at 11:23 AM on June 21
It feels very probable that dating will just be trauma ending in me realizing I'm alone save for pretending to be attracted to cis men and trans women who aren't fat, which I found depressing and boring. A lot of people end up celibate or not enjoying sex despite having a libido. What do I do in that case? How do I stop feeling jealous of people attracted to their wives?
posted by MuppetNavy at 11:23 AM on June 21
I feel preemptively guilty when I see a woman I'm attracted to in public, because I know she didn't consent to being thought of that way, and probably would be disgusted at attention from someone like me, probably because her body has a condition she didn't choose and doesn't like. And I could afford to pay her Ozempic if we were dating, and I don't use my money for much other than rent and distractions, so my pattern of attraction in a serious relationship would be doubly hurtful.
I'm fat in real life so I just want to point out that this is, kindly, something you've made up in your head about what fat people think and feel about their bodies. The reason many fat people don't want to date fetishists or feedists is only sometimes because they don't like being fat. I would say it's more commonly because they want to be treated like human beings and not objects for someone to act out their fantasies on, so they're suspicious of people who immediately center the interaction around their specific sexual interests, as some people with fetishes unfortunately do. It sounds like this is something you've been careful about not doing, so you don't have to feel like you're harming fat women by wanting to have sex with them. That's a super normal thing to want and enjoy. Personally, I have dated someone with this fetish before, but she was cool and I liked her and she never made me feel obligated to do anything I didn't want to, so it was no big deal if she sometimes bought me a big thing of fries instead of a medium because that was sexy for her.
I'm really sorry about the other things about your mom and the bullying and the isolation. It all sounds so hard to deal with and I think it's probably more pressing than the fat thing. But when you're in a better place I think you might benefit from reading more about fat people and their lives so you can overcome this idea you have that all fat people dislike their bodies or would prefer to be thin and that you are doing them harm by being attracted to them. If you go into a relationship with a fat person with these beliefs, that they would be better off thin and that it's shameful for you to like them and want to have sex with them, neither of you will be happy. If you want to learn more about how to enjoy your kink ethically, you could seek out fat people who are into it and read what they say about their own experiences. I hope it'll help ease your anxiety a bit. Your interests are unusual but it really is fine. You can totally find someone who likes what you like or at least is happy to meet you halfway.
posted by birthday cake at 1:52 PM on June 24 [4 favorites]
I'm fat in real life so I just want to point out that this is, kindly, something you've made up in your head about what fat people think and feel about their bodies. The reason many fat people don't want to date fetishists or feedists is only sometimes because they don't like being fat. I would say it's more commonly because they want to be treated like human beings and not objects for someone to act out their fantasies on, so they're suspicious of people who immediately center the interaction around their specific sexual interests, as some people with fetishes unfortunately do. It sounds like this is something you've been careful about not doing, so you don't have to feel like you're harming fat women by wanting to have sex with them. That's a super normal thing to want and enjoy. Personally, I have dated someone with this fetish before, but she was cool and I liked her and she never made me feel obligated to do anything I didn't want to, so it was no big deal if she sometimes bought me a big thing of fries instead of a medium because that was sexy for her.
I'm really sorry about the other things about your mom and the bullying and the isolation. It all sounds so hard to deal with and I think it's probably more pressing than the fat thing. But when you're in a better place I think you might benefit from reading more about fat people and their lives so you can overcome this idea you have that all fat people dislike their bodies or would prefer to be thin and that you are doing them harm by being attracted to them. If you go into a relationship with a fat person with these beliefs, that they would be better off thin and that it's shameful for you to like them and want to have sex with them, neither of you will be happy. If you want to learn more about how to enjoy your kink ethically, you could seek out fat people who are into it and read what they say about their own experiences. I hope it'll help ease your anxiety a bit. Your interests are unusual but it really is fine. You can totally find someone who likes what you like or at least is happy to meet you halfway.
posted by birthday cake at 1:52 PM on June 24 [4 favorites]
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posted by Bella Donna at 10:01 AM on June 19 [4 favorites]