List of B-17 and B-24 bombers lost on July 9, 1944?
February 27, 2024 5:29 PM Subscribe
Can anyone suggest data sources listing all of the B-17 and B-24 bombers lost on July 9, 1944?
A friend has asked me, since I have done some individual WWII research, but I don't have experience with this kind of data.
I don't mind doing web searches and playing with raw data on my computer, though I fear the idea of trying to find every unit history web site and searching them all.
A friend has asked me, since I have done some individual WWII research, but I don't have experience with this kind of data.
I don't mind doing web searches and playing with raw data on my computer, though I fear the idea of trying to find every unit history web site and searching them all.
Best answer: Per the Air Force Historical Support Division:
And the Army Air Forces MACRs are (mostly) available online at the National Archives, it looks like. There is also a name index.
I don't see an easy way to comprehensively search by date, though. So finding all MACRs from a specific date might be something of a chore using that collection. When I searched for July 1944 it returned about 200 pages of results. The records don't seem to be indexed or easily searchable by specific date. Searches like "July 1944" seem useful, though, and "9 July 1944" (with quotes) gives good results as does "9 Jul 44" (again with quotes) and likely other similar variants would be useful, too. I just don't know how to reliably return EVERY result for that date.
The first or second page of each PDF has the date prominently displayed, so a determined person could work their way through the 200 pages of results in a while.
Just for example, here is one result:A-20G lost near Rennes, France on July 9th, 1944.
It looks like Fold3 and probably other companies also have the records online and searchable, but also not sorted or indexed by date. (The MACRs are listed by MACR number, which only approximately corresponds to the date. Fold3 has them indexed by aircraft serial number as well.) You'll need an account (paid or free trial) to search there.
Here is more of a bullseye: the ArmyAirCorps Museum has MACRs searchable online by MACR number, date, and a/c tail. MACRs found for July 9, 1944 are:
Just be aware this might not be 100% complete as MACRs may be misfiled or not filed by date, and also this includes the Air Forces only, not marines, navy, etc.
If you repeat that search on the web site, the MACR number (far left) will be clickable, and clicking it will show more data.
Also, you could then use the MACR number to look up the full record on the National Archives web site. For example, here is MACR 7011, the first B-24G listed above.
And . . . it looks like the National Archives MACRs files DO have a list of losses by date. However, it is simply a typed list and since you can't access the pages sequentially in any easy way, it is hard to be sure of catching all listings. But here is a (partial?) list of losses on 9 Jul 44. This is an earlier page dated 8 Jul 44 but since the pages are not numbered it is hard to tell if any other pages might be between the two! Based on the list above, there must be more pages from July 9th, but I can't find them!
Finally, this resource doesn't list specific aircraft but does provide an overall summary of actions and results by date and air force. 7/9/44 starts on page 434. It lists a B-17 lost by Eighth AF. Fifteenth AF says 6 U.S. aircraft were shot down but doesn't specify type. None of the other AF reports list missing aircraft - though based on the list of MACRs from this date above, there were definitely more.
posted by flug at 10:17 PM on February 27 [13 favorites]
During World War II the U.S. Army Air Forces (AAF) required group echelon units to submit Missing Air Crew Reports (MACRs) to AAF headquarters within two days after an aircraft or air crew failed to return from a combat mission. . . . The information contained in a typical MACR includes a date, time, and location that the crew and aircraft were last seen or reported missing from the formation. . . .Here is a detailed response with information available about aircraft from various branches and how to find those records.
The Air Force Historical Support Division (AF/HOH) in Washington, D.C. maintains MACRs on microfiche. Copies of these reports are provided to veterans and their family members upon written request. When submitting requests, write to the following address: AF/HOH, Reference Section, 3 Brookley Avenue, Box 94, Joint Base Anacostia Bolling, Washington, DC 20032-5000. You may also email your request through our "contact us" message box.
The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) maintains MACRs on 16 mm microfilm and provides copies to public and private researchers for a nominal fee. When submitting requests for MACRs from NARA, write to the following address: NARA/NNR2, 8601 Adelphi Road, College Park, MD 20740-6001 or call 301-713-7250 ext. 382.
The Air Force Historical Research Agency (AFHRA) at Maxwell AFB, AL may also be of assistance to private and professional researchers trying to locate MACRs.
The AFHRA has several numerical listings compiled from the AAF unit records which may be used to find the corresponding MACR number for crew members failing to return from combat missions when the following information is known: aircraft serial number and type, date when aircrew became missing, assigned unit, machine gun serial number(s), or engine serial number(s).
And the Army Air Forces MACRs are (mostly) available online at the National Archives, it looks like. There is also a name index.
I don't see an easy way to comprehensively search by date, though. So finding all MACRs from a specific date might be something of a chore using that collection. When I searched for July 1944 it returned about 200 pages of results. The records don't seem to be indexed or easily searchable by specific date. Searches like "July 1944" seem useful, though, and "9 July 1944" (with quotes) gives good results as does "9 Jul 44" (again with quotes) and likely other similar variants would be useful, too. I just don't know how to reliably return EVERY result for that date.
The first or second page of each PDF has the date prominently displayed, so a determined person could work their way through the 200 pages of results in a while.
Just for example, here is one result:A-20G lost near Rennes, France on July 9th, 1944.
It looks like Fold3 and probably other companies also have the records online and searchable, but also not sorted or indexed by date. (The MACRs are listed by MACR number, which only approximately corresponds to the date. Fold3 has them indexed by aircraft serial number as well.) You'll need an account (paid or free trial) to search there.
Here is more of a bullseye: the ArmyAirCorps Museum has MACRs searchable online by MACR number, date, and a/c tail. MACRs found for July 9, 1944 are:
07103 07/09/1944 44-23201 P-38J 82FGSo, to directly answer your question, according to that list it looks like four B-24s and and three B-17s were lost that day. In addition a B-25 was lost - just in case you care about those.
06797 07/09/1944 42-68014 P-38J 55FG
07011 07/09/1944 42-78341 B-24G 449BG
06865 07/09/1944 42-78348 B-24G 98BG
07802 07/09/1944 42-94818 B-24H 34BG
07359 07/09/1944 42-38141 B-17GCB 379BG
06517 07/09/1944 42-102925 B-17G 99BG
06817 07/09/1944 42-107166 B-17G 483BG
07291 07/09/1944 42-104992 P-40N 80FG
06860 07/09/1944 42-78346 B-24G 98BG
06605 07/09/1944 43-6282 P-51A-10 311FG
06650 07/09/1944 43-9889 A-20G 409BG
06790 07/09/1944 44-13576 P-51D 361FG
07541 07/09/1944 42-23705 C-47A 375TCG
06525 07/09/1944 42-61024 C-46A 1328AFBU
16229 07/09/1944 B-25 12BG
Just be aware this might not be 100% complete as MACRs may be misfiled or not filed by date, and also this includes the Air Forces only, not marines, navy, etc.
If you repeat that search on the web site, the MACR number (far left) will be clickable, and clicking it will show more data.
Also, you could then use the MACR number to look up the full record on the National Archives web site. For example, here is MACR 7011, the first B-24G listed above.
And . . . it looks like the National Archives MACRs files DO have a list of losses by date. However, it is simply a typed list and since you can't access the pages sequentially in any easy way, it is hard to be sure of catching all listings. But here is a (partial?) list of losses on 9 Jul 44. This is an earlier page dated 8 Jul 44 but since the pages are not numbered it is hard to tell if any other pages might be between the two! Based on the list above, there must be more pages from July 9th, but I can't find them!
Finally, this resource doesn't list specific aircraft but does provide an overall summary of actions and results by date and air force. 7/9/44 starts on page 434. It lists a B-17 lost by Eighth AF. Fifteenth AF says 6 U.S. aircraft were shot down but doesn't specify type. None of the other AF reports list missing aircraft - though based on the list of MACRs from this date above, there were definitely more.
posted by flug at 10:17 PM on February 27 [13 favorites]
Best answer: AircrewRemembered.com has USAAF Combat Operations, Sunday, 9 July 1944
European Theater of Operations
Eighth Air Force, Mission 462: one B-17 lost (and 10 damaged)
Eighth Air Force, Mission 463: one B-24 is lost (and 60 damaged)
Mediterranean Theater of Operations
Fifteen Air Force: In the Fifteenth's first Pathfinder-led mission, 222 B-17s and B-24s bomb Xenia and Concordia Vega oil refineries at Ploesti, Rumania; P-38s and P-51s fly escort; other P-51s sweep the Ploesti area during the attacks; the bombers and fighters claim destruction of 14 of the 40-50 opposing fighters; 6 AAF aircraft are shot down.
These six are not specified, but First Lieutenant Donald D. Pucket piloted a B-24 -- the "42-78346 B-24G 98BG" in flug's answer.
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:50 PM on February 27 [5 favorites]
European Theater of Operations
Eighth Air Force, Mission 462: one B-17 lost (and 10 damaged)
Eighth Air Force, Mission 463: one B-24 is lost (and 60 damaged)
Mediterranean Theater of Operations
Fifteen Air Force: In the Fifteenth's first Pathfinder-led mission, 222 B-17s and B-24s bomb Xenia and Concordia Vega oil refineries at Ploesti, Rumania; P-38s and P-51s fly escort; other P-51s sweep the Ploesti area during the attacks; the bombers and fighters claim destruction of 14 of the 40-50 opposing fighters; 6 AAF aircraft are shot down.
These six are not specified, but First Lieutenant Donald D. Pucket piloted a B-24 -- the "42-78346 B-24G 98BG" in flug's answer.
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:50 PM on February 27 [5 favorites]
Best answer: The THOR (THeather of OpeRations) database is a really great record of aerial bombing missions in WWII and Vietnam by the Allies and the US respectively. I am not sure how curated/censored it is. It has an ac_lost column, which I assume is a record of how many aircraft were lost on the mission. (The data dictionary on data.world is unclear.) The database also gives the exact models of the planes in the mission. I do not think you could get the MACRs mentioned above, but if you were looking to see where those missions were going and what they were doing, this would give those records.
Kagle link
Original data.world link (requires creating a free login)
posted by Hactar at 4:35 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
Kagle link
Original data.world link (requires creating a free login)
posted by Hactar at 4:35 AM on February 29 [2 favorites]
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posted by Ideefixe at 8:16 PM on February 27