Would we really need snow tires?
February 19, 2024 4:25 AM Subscribe
I know ask.metafilter loves to recommend snow tires. But would we really need them in our situation?
We're in the midst of urgent car shopping to replace our no-longer-driveable 2009 Subaru Impreza. I'm not usually so superficial about big decisions, but I dislike the look of the modern Imprezas, inside and out. I like the current-generation Civic hatches. (For the purpose of this question, please assume that other options are out unless the answer would change if I asked about a current-generation FWD Corolla or *maybe* Mazda3 hatch.) I hate the idea of having to switch out tires twice/year. With Subarus, we never felt the least need for snow tires.
Points in favor of snow tires being absolutely necessary if we switched to a Civic:
- We live in snowy Western MA (though in the somewhat less snowy Connecticut River Valley part of the state).
- We have a long, sloped, driveway that we need to be able to make it up, and it's gravel, so it's never plowed down to bare pavement. A little snow is left on top so that the driveway surface stays intact, and it packs down and gets icy in places.
- We are cautious people who like to play it safe.
Points against:
- We don't drive much, maybe 1-2x/week on average, and much less often than that on a highway. No commute, no kids, no major medical conditions, etc. If it's significantly snowy, we generally change any plans to drive a different day instead.
- We've had Subarus for so long that we've never driven modern cars in the winter. I've heard that the difference between Subaru's AWD and modern cars' FWD is a lot less pronounced now than it used to be.
So say we had a plan that we really didn't want to change, like a long-awaited, local doctor's appointment, or a minor emergency, and the conditions were borderline (any worse, or highways being involved, and we'd cancel anyway). E.g., a little snow was on the roads and it was still snowing, potentially getting more slippery while we were out. Our driveway already had a coating of packed snow/ice from a prior storm. With a Subaru, we know we wouldn't skid or struggle with any of that. What about with a Civic with all-season tires? I know everyone says how important snows are. Would we really wish we had snows or a Subaru? Or do those sound like conditions that a Civic with all-seasons would handle fine, too?
(This is a continuation of this question.)
We're in the midst of urgent car shopping to replace our no-longer-driveable 2009 Subaru Impreza. I'm not usually so superficial about big decisions, but I dislike the look of the modern Imprezas, inside and out. I like the current-generation Civic hatches. (For the purpose of this question, please assume that other options are out unless the answer would change if I asked about a current-generation FWD Corolla or *maybe* Mazda3 hatch.) I hate the idea of having to switch out tires twice/year. With Subarus, we never felt the least need for snow tires.
Points in favor of snow tires being absolutely necessary if we switched to a Civic:
- We live in snowy Western MA (though in the somewhat less snowy Connecticut River Valley part of the state).
- We have a long, sloped, driveway that we need to be able to make it up, and it's gravel, so it's never plowed down to bare pavement. A little snow is left on top so that the driveway surface stays intact, and it packs down and gets icy in places.
- We are cautious people who like to play it safe.
Points against:
- We don't drive much, maybe 1-2x/week on average, and much less often than that on a highway. No commute, no kids, no major medical conditions, etc. If it's significantly snowy, we generally change any plans to drive a different day instead.
- We've had Subarus for so long that we've never driven modern cars in the winter. I've heard that the difference between Subaru's AWD and modern cars' FWD is a lot less pronounced now than it used to be.
So say we had a plan that we really didn't want to change, like a long-awaited, local doctor's appointment, or a minor emergency, and the conditions were borderline (any worse, or highways being involved, and we'd cancel anyway). E.g., a little snow was on the roads and it was still snowing, potentially getting more slippery while we were out. Our driveway already had a coating of packed snow/ice from a prior storm. With a Subaru, we know we wouldn't skid or struggle with any of that. What about with a Civic with all-season tires? I know everyone says how important snows are. Would we really wish we had snows or a Subaru? Or do those sound like conditions that a Civic with all-seasons would handle fine, too?
(This is a continuation of this question.)
I'm from northern VT and we stopped getting snow tires somewhere in the early 90's, improvements in all-weather tire technology made it unnecessary. We drive either gigantic rear-wheel-drive land yachts or puny front-wheel-drive VWs.
Personally, I would stick with all-weathers and get some chains (make sure you practice putting them on!) for emergencies. But you'll probably never need them.
posted by Admiral Viceroy at 4:52 AM on February 19 [4 favorites]
Personally, I would stick with all-weathers and get some chains (make sure you practice putting them on!) for emergencies. But you'll probably never need them.
posted by Admiral Viceroy at 4:52 AM on February 19 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Without snows (and possibly even with) you may find it necessary to back into your sloped driveway rather than just drive up. A front wheel drive car loses traction when ascending hills because the weight shifts to the rear. This becomes a significant problem on snow/ice. Keeping the nose of the car towards the downslope when backing up would flip the equation; there would be more traction. A thought to consider.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:53 AM on February 19 [2 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:53 AM on February 19 [2 favorites]
Are you able to park at the bottom of the driveway if you need to?
I think chains are a reasonable option. It'll be a bit of a pain/learning curve, but will do the job.
posted by Dashy at 5:12 AM on February 19 [2 favorites]
I think chains are a reasonable option. It'll be a bit of a pain/learning curve, but will do the job.
posted by Dashy at 5:12 AM on February 19 [2 favorites]
I'm team snow tire. An AWD car with snow/winter tires is the ultimate winter setup, but fwd with snow tires can be pretty decent too. With the low ground clearance of something like a Civic, it's easy to find yourself in a situation where you're essentially plowing through snow and need all the tire grip you can get to not get stuck.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 5:14 AM on February 19 [5 favorites]
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 5:14 AM on February 19 [5 favorites]
Fellow MA driver here. Remember that you don't have to change out the tires twice a year. You can have them on hand, but not use them every year. Some years I make the call based on weather (It's Nov. 15 and we've already had a lot of snow, think I'll put the snows on this year), others based on driving plans (two 6 hr drives planned next month, think I'll put the snows on). As mentioned in myriad other AskMes, swapping out to snow tires also keeps your regular tires in good condition longer, too. My previous set of snow tires lasted 11 years (I don't drive a whole lot either). Estimate $600- $800 for tires. $72/year + ~$50/year swapping fee = $122 per year for a key safety element of the car is worth it in my opinion.
In your situation, I'd attempt your driveway in winter with the new car and see how it does. Can you park at the bottom and walk up if you need to? If your need to leave the house (and return to it) is that flexible, it sounds like you can just get them if you decide you do need them.
posted by cocoagirl at 5:17 AM on February 19 [1 favorite]
In your situation, I'd attempt your driveway in winter with the new car and see how it does. Can you park at the bottom and walk up if you need to? If your need to leave the house (and return to it) is that flexible, it sounds like you can just get them if you decide you do need them.
posted by cocoagirl at 5:17 AM on February 19 [1 favorite]
Consider the Michelin CrossClimate2. It is a winter tire that you can drive in the summer, in that it has some kind of weird rubber that gets harder when it's warm and softer when it's cold. I have been very happy with them as an all-season tire here in southern Wisconsin, and my dad has them on his highlander on the upper peninsula of Michigan and is also happy.
posted by rockindata at 5:22 AM on February 19 [3 favorites]
posted by rockindata at 5:22 AM on February 19 [3 favorites]
Best answer: There's a compromise between typical all-season tires (which I think will perform less well on a front wheel drive car than you'd expect) and the inconveniences of swapping out for snow tires each year - all-weather tires with the three peak mountain snowflake (3PMS) symbol. While these tires will not outperform true snow tires in poor conditions, they will provide substantial improvements in handling with day to day snow over all-season tires, with the compromise that they'll generally wear a bit faster. (The Michelin CrossClimate that rockindata recommended above is an example of a 3PMS all-weather tire, but many other brands sell them.)
I was in a similar scenario - I had stopped driving enough to justify switching out for snow tires, while I wanted better handling during the rare times I did need to go out in the snow. I got a set of all-weather 3PMS tires and they did the trick. This was back before the pandemic, and the wear has been better than expected - they're still on my car, doing fine.
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 5:39 AM on February 19 [3 favorites]
I was in a similar scenario - I had stopped driving enough to justify switching out for snow tires, while I wanted better handling during the rare times I did need to go out in the snow. I got a set of all-weather 3PMS tires and they did the trick. This was back before the pandemic, and the wear has been better than expected - they're still on my car, doing fine.
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 5:39 AM on February 19 [3 favorites]
I am not a tire expert but will state this confidently like a real white man in the hopes that someone will get infuriated and correct me if I'm wrong:
AWD has not been giving you the benefits you think it has. AWD helps you accelerate, that's all. It helps you get moving, and can help you around a corner you're accelerating through like turning at an intersection after a stop. That's it. It has never helped you avoid a skid in any significant sense, and it sure as hell has never ever in the tiniest degree helped you stop.
AWD all-seasons to FWD all-seasons is not a big change. The only significant difference you'll see is increased difficulty getting moving, especially when you're facing uphill. Depending on how hilly your area is and how good your snow removal is, this might only be annoying, or might be really bad.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:46 AM on February 19 [3 favorites]
AWD has not been giving you the benefits you think it has. AWD helps you accelerate, that's all. It helps you get moving, and can help you around a corner you're accelerating through like turning at an intersection after a stop. That's it. It has never helped you avoid a skid in any significant sense, and it sure as hell has never ever in the tiniest degree helped you stop.
AWD all-seasons to FWD all-seasons is not a big change. The only significant difference you'll see is increased difficulty getting moving, especially when you're facing uphill. Depending on how hilly your area is and how good your snow removal is, this might only be annoying, or might be really bad.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:46 AM on February 19 [3 favorites]
We live in snowy Western
Just get snow tires.
posted by mhoye at 6:10 AM on February 19 [9 favorites]
Just get snow tires.
posted by mhoye at 6:10 AM on February 19 [9 favorites]
I’m very much team snow-tire. I’ve lived in a snowy area and have always driven FWD vehicles with snows and have never had trouble winter driving. I did do all seasons for a bit when I didn’t have the cash to change tires and the drive was much dicier.
Another plus to snows is a lot of insurance companies will give a discount on your insurance if you use them. It’s a bit of set up at first to get the discount, but after the first time most just assume you use them every year.
One thing to remember with snows is they are fine as long as the temp is below 10 C (i.e.: you aren’t going to do them any major wear and tear driving on them for a bit as the weather warms up). So depending on where you live and how winter rolls in you can usually safely get your snows on a month before the snow flies, and a month or so into spring. If you time some other regular maintenance with this, that can help it be a bit more convenient.
posted by eekernohan at 6:20 AM on February 19 [1 favorite]
Another plus to snows is a lot of insurance companies will give a discount on your insurance if you use them. It’s a bit of set up at first to get the discount, but after the first time most just assume you use them every year.
One thing to remember with snows is they are fine as long as the temp is below 10 C (i.e.: you aren’t going to do them any major wear and tear driving on them for a bit as the weather warms up). So depending on where you live and how winter rolls in you can usually safely get your snows on a month before the snow flies, and a month or so into spring. If you time some other regular maintenance with this, that can help it be a bit more convenient.
posted by eekernohan at 6:20 AM on February 19 [1 favorite]
Best answer: We were in Vermont in December when we finally got out of our haggard California tires, and the guys there all said no, don't get snow tires, hardly anybody needs them anymore. We got All-Weathers on two shops' advice (and they weren't selling them! We had to order them, get them delivered to the house, and drive them to the shop).
We've now been in the Berkshires (like up high, near Becket) in a gravel-road neighborhood for 6 weeks and nobody here has them either because the paved roads are basically bone dry at all times. We too just don't go out if there's been freezing rain or a big walloping of snow, until there's been time for the plows to catch up.
I bet someone nearby will gladly exchange a bit of money to grit your driveway periodically.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:46 AM on February 19 [3 favorites]
We've now been in the Berkshires (like up high, near Becket) in a gravel-road neighborhood for 6 weeks and nobody here has them either because the paved roads are basically bone dry at all times. We too just don't go out if there's been freezing rain or a big walloping of snow, until there's been time for the plows to catch up.
I bet someone nearby will gladly exchange a bit of money to grit your driveway periodically.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:46 AM on February 19 [3 favorites]
We also live around there (Belchertown) and drive a Prius that we've never bothered to put snow tires on. We park at the very top of our steep driveway when we expect snow, keep a set of chains in the car for the really bad days (just to get out of the driveway) and haven't had much problem. Dunno what a really bad winter would be like - hasn't been one since we moved here in '17 - but so far it's been ok.
posted by restless_nomad at 6:47 AM on February 19 [1 favorite]
posted by restless_nomad at 6:47 AM on February 19 [1 favorite]
No. You don’t need snow tires. You do need to keep in mind that without snow tires you need to accelerate slower, stop slower, and leave way more room. You need to pay attention to the tread life of your tires, and replace them when appropriate.
Subarus are great, but they can’t beat physics.
posted by Geckwoistmeinauto at 6:49 AM on February 19 [1 favorite]
Subarus are great, but they can’t beat physics.
posted by Geckwoistmeinauto at 6:49 AM on February 19 [1 favorite]
Best answer: There's a compromise between typical all-season tires (which I think will perform less well on a front wheel drive car than you'd expect) and the inconveniences of swapping out for snow tires each year - all-weather tires with the three peak mountain snowflake (3PMS) symbol.
This is what I was going to suggest. I have these on my car (which has AWD, but as noted above that doesn't help for turning and stopping) and have found the winter traction to be excellent. As a safety measure, like for getting home if you are out and conditions deteriorate, I'd keep snow chains or Snow socks/Autosocks in the car. (Be aware that many modern cars have limited clearance inside the wheel wells so you have to make sure that whatever snow chain-type product you get meets the manufacturer's criteria.)
posted by Dip Flash at 6:55 AM on February 19
This is what I was going to suggest. I have these on my car (which has AWD, but as noted above that doesn't help for turning and stopping) and have found the winter traction to be excellent. As a safety measure, like for getting home if you are out and conditions deteriorate, I'd keep snow chains or Snow socks/Autosocks in the car. (Be aware that many modern cars have limited clearance inside the wheel wells so you have to make sure that whatever snow chain-type product you get meets the manufacturer's criteria.)
posted by Dip Flash at 6:55 AM on February 19
Best answer: I'm in Maine, all-weather tires and a steep icy driveway sound like a challenge to me. I have a steep, short, paved driveway. In your case, I'd make sure I had a bucket of sand in the car, and I'd sand icy spots, too.
posted by theora55 at 6:57 AM on February 19 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 6:57 AM on February 19 [1 favorite]
Best answer: My long, sloped driveway is not your long, sloped driveway. But here's my experience:
I can recall exactly one time a Subaru with AWD could not make it up the drive. FWD vehicles with snow tires can usually make it up (not always), but you do need to get a running start, so to speak, and not slow at all. Without snow tires, it's a crap shoot that depends on the state of the drive and the skill of the driver. Many FWD cars have spent the night at the bottom of our driveway.
For additional context, we are in the mountains of Colorado. Our drive is paved, and we plow after each snowfall (but you can never get all the snow/ice). It's steep enough that most companies refused to pave it. And it's long enough (over 1/8 of a mile?) that being unable to make it up the drive is more than a small inconvenience (particularly with how steep it is).
With that in mind, most of my family will only drive Subarus. I've kept my beater of a Scion, but I do keep snow tires on from October through April--and I will borrow one of the Subarus if things look too icey out. FWD with snow tires has been totally adequate for driving anywhere that is not our driveway (including snowy mountain passes).
posted by Bambiraptor at 7:08 AM on February 19
I can recall exactly one time a Subaru with AWD could not make it up the drive. FWD vehicles with snow tires can usually make it up (not always), but you do need to get a running start, so to speak, and not slow at all. Without snow tires, it's a crap shoot that depends on the state of the drive and the skill of the driver. Many FWD cars have spent the night at the bottom of our driveway.
For additional context, we are in the mountains of Colorado. Our drive is paved, and we plow after each snowfall (but you can never get all the snow/ice). It's steep enough that most companies refused to pave it. And it's long enough (over 1/8 of a mile?) that being unable to make it up the drive is more than a small inconvenience (particularly with how steep it is).
With that in mind, most of my family will only drive Subarus. I've kept my beater of a Scion, but I do keep snow tires on from October through April--and I will borrow one of the Subarus if things look too icey out. FWD with snow tires has been totally adequate for driving anywhere that is not our driveway (including snowy mountain passes).
posted by Bambiraptor at 7:08 AM on February 19
Portland Maine, and I drive a Honda Fit. I've used all season tires for thirty years, and anecdotally I only know one person locally (now two with Theora55 I guess) who change over to snow tires. My brother in law sells tires (through a well-known regional chain that sponsors a lot of baseball) and does not recommend snows for us.
Also, this is not a forever decision. If you decide later that you want snows, you can do that.
posted by anastasiav at 7:14 AM on February 19 [1 favorite]
Also, this is not a forever decision. If you decide later that you want snows, you can do that.
posted by anastasiav at 7:14 AM on February 19 [1 favorite]
We have a compact Japanese SUV with AWD and a compact Japanese car in Wisconsin. Neither has ever had snow tires but both do have all-weather tires. That said, everywhere we drive is paved and we live in a city. The car sometimes has a tough time in blizzard conditions but it's a manual so that gives us a little more wiggle room.
posted by notjustthefish at 7:48 AM on February 19
posted by notjustthefish at 7:48 AM on February 19
Best answer: If you get snow tires you will need to purchase a set of 4 rims to mount them on.
You will have to change the tires over twice a year spring and fall.
You will have to store a set of tires.
True snow tires should not really be driven in summer.
Not only will they wear very fast , they will handle poorly especially in wet conditions.
As has been mentioned above there is a third category of tire. An all weather tire.
They are NOT all season tires. They are a new enough category that people confuse the two.
They do have the snowflake on the mountain symbol indicating a winter rated tire.
They are eligible for an insurance discount.
They are meant to be driven year round. No changeover. No storage
They can be driven in summer.
The Michellin Crossclimate is one example.
I have a Honda Civic with an all weather tire, Goodyear WeatherReady
Friend has the Crossclimate and a steep gravel driveway in a rural location. Drives a Toyota sedan. Says hes very pleased with it.
The Good year all weather is fine for Toronto winters.
It's ice traction is surprisingly okay
posted by yyz at 8:07 AM on February 19 [1 favorite]
You will have to change the tires over twice a year spring and fall.
You will have to store a set of tires.
True snow tires should not really be driven in summer.
Not only will they wear very fast , they will handle poorly especially in wet conditions.
As has been mentioned above there is a third category of tire. An all weather tire.
They are NOT all season tires. They are a new enough category that people confuse the two.
They do have the snowflake on the mountain symbol indicating a winter rated tire.
They are eligible for an insurance discount.
They are meant to be driven year round. No changeover. No storage
They can be driven in summer.
The Michellin Crossclimate is one example.
I have a Honda Civic with an all weather tire, Goodyear WeatherReady
Friend has the Crossclimate and a steep gravel driveway in a rural location. Drives a Toyota sedan. Says hes very pleased with it.
The Good year all weather is fine for Toronto winters.
It's ice traction is surprisingly okay
posted by yyz at 8:07 AM on February 19 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Hey, I'm in Amherst! In my experience, a FWD car with snow tires FAR outperforms an AWD Subaru with all-season tires.
If you get snow tires you will need to purchase a set of 4 rims to mount them on.
This has not been my experience. I go to Town Fare Tire in Northampton and they are awesome. Lots of inventory, expertise, and good deals. Also they can change out your tires on the same rims while you wait. Sometimes they have packages that include this service for free when you buy the tires from them.
I think you'd probably be fine 95% of the time without snow tires, but it might be worth it for the peace of mind. Also, it's really satisfying to have exactly the right tires for the conditions - it makes a noticeable difference and will be better than your Subaru ever was.
You could also go a winter without and then make the decision next year.
posted by TurkishGolds at 8:20 AM on February 19
If you get snow tires you will need to purchase a set of 4 rims to mount them on.
This has not been my experience. I go to Town Fare Tire in Northampton and they are awesome. Lots of inventory, expertise, and good deals. Also they can change out your tires on the same rims while you wait. Sometimes they have packages that include this service for free when you buy the tires from them.
I think you'd probably be fine 95% of the time without snow tires, but it might be worth it for the peace of mind. Also, it's really satisfying to have exactly the right tires for the conditions - it makes a noticeable difference and will be better than your Subaru ever was.
You could also go a winter without and then make the decision next year.
posted by TurkishGolds at 8:20 AM on February 19
Best answer: I was once team snow tire. But, eventually I simply tired of the changing tires twice a year, and storing tires, etc. etc. I long, long, ago started shopping for really good all-weather tires for my cars, and have never had an issue in winter.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:02 AM on February 19 [2 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 9:02 AM on February 19 [2 favorites]
Best answer: How much money do you have to throw at the problem? I bought my snow tires at the dealership and have them stored at the dealership. I get routine car service done when the snow tires go off in spring. That means only one extra trip in the fall to put the tires on. Worth it for the peace of mind. Also useful for parallel parking on poorly cleared roads.
posted by shock muppet at 9:47 AM on February 19 [1 favorite]
posted by shock muppet at 9:47 AM on February 19 [1 favorite]
Get-Snow-Tires: If you have a weird sloped driveway in a place with snowy winters.
(Like some commenters here, we've gone from using snow tires to all-weather tires because it works in our situation, but maybe not yours? I might disagree with some comments here.)
Civic is a good car, my sister likes hers.
posted by ovvl at 5:26 PM on February 19
(Like some commenters here, we've gone from using snow tires to all-weather tires because it works in our situation, but maybe not yours? I might disagree with some comments here.)
Civic is a good car, my sister likes hers.
posted by ovvl at 5:26 PM on February 19
Consider the Michelin CrossClimate2. It is a winter tire that you can drive in the summer, in that it has some kind of weird rubber that gets harder when it's warm and softer when it's cold.
We put these on our Subaru a year and a half ago. We rarely have to drive in the snow, but they've been excellent in the rain. I wish I could remember what tires were on before so this statement would be more meaningful, but: they're so much better in all conditions, handle well, and are much quieter. Highly recommended.
These tires had no issues when we were driving up/down the 270 foot gravel driveway of our former house when it had snowed 12 inches.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:05 PM on February 19
We put these on our Subaru a year and a half ago. We rarely have to drive in the snow, but they've been excellent in the rain. I wish I could remember what tires were on before so this statement would be more meaningful, but: they're so much better in all conditions, handle well, and are much quieter. Highly recommended.
These tires had no issues when we were driving up/down the 270 foot gravel driveway of our former house when it had snowed 12 inches.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:05 PM on February 19
You could get snow tires and just...leave them on year round. Yes, I know, there are a whole bunch of reasons why you shouldn't do this. But it's what I do.
I live in New Hampshire. I drive very little in the summer, and only short distances. (For reasons, I drive a lot more in winter, and sometimes have no choice but to drive in some rough conditions.) I have a 2008 Honda Civic.
I have nowhere to store another set of tires. Also, I have ADHD, my life is kind of a mess, it's a miracle when I get my car in for it's every 6 month oil change. And having snow tires has made winter driving so much better.
posted by litera scripta manet at 7:18 PM on February 19
I live in New Hampshire. I drive very little in the summer, and only short distances. (For reasons, I drive a lot more in winter, and sometimes have no choice but to drive in some rough conditions.) I have a 2008 Honda Civic.
I have nowhere to store another set of tires. Also, I have ADHD, my life is kind of a mess, it's a miracle when I get my car in for it's every 6 month oil change. And having snow tires has made winter driving so much better.
posted by litera scripta manet at 7:18 PM on February 19
Best answer: I had a cabin in the Adirondacks. Same driveway situation. Lots of snow in the roads because they were reluctant to use salt and because snow sleds. Anyway, all weather tires on the vehicle and sand on the driveway for grip. Whoever plows the driveway should be able to drop sand on it too.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:55 PM on February 19
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:55 PM on February 19
I think an experienced driver in an AWD car (not necessarily a Subaru but they do make a good one) with good brakes who takes it easy in bad conditions and doesn't speed... in your situation that driver does not NEED snow tires but may WANT snow tires for extra security.
I am also a cautious driver and I change my tires out twice a year for studs in the winter (same rims.) My partner is a more experienced driver and uses snow/ice tires year round (no studs.) We worked out the cost and the extra wear on her tires means replacing every 2-3 years, which costs the same as a second set, storage, and changeover service every year. So, it's a wash unless you're able to change your own tires.
posted by blnkfrnk at 10:38 PM on February 19
I am also a cautious driver and I change my tires out twice a year for studs in the winter (same rims.) My partner is a more experienced driver and uses snow/ice tires year round (no studs.) We worked out the cost and the extra wear on her tires means replacing every 2-3 years, which costs the same as a second set, storage, and changeover service every year. So, it's a wash unless you're able to change your own tires.
posted by blnkfrnk at 10:38 PM on February 19
Are you me? Snowy western Mass, long steep gravel driveway except mine goes down, gravel roads abound around me, but I have to drive for reason that sometimes can't be deferred even in bad weather, sometimes quite a long way.
My Mazda3 (FWD) on winter tires provides a noticeable margin of better safety than my Pirelli all seasons as soon as the temps stay below 40, and absolutely on any kind of snow or ice. It strongly affects my sense of security behind the wheel, which is worth a lot on its own.
Would I mostly probably be fine on the Pirellis all year? Sure, and especially if I didn't drive as much as I do (15k miles a year) and could choose not to drive on really bad days? Yes. I've been driving 40 years, starting in New England and including Alaska and the mountain west before I came home, in a wide range of vehicles, on all kinds of tires, and I can easily feel and appreciate the margin of confidence winter tires give me and for me it's utterly worth the hassle of swapping them twice a year.
They have absolutely saved me from various levels of disaster multiple times over the years.
To me, that has almost no cost that's too high. A couple hundred bucks a year and a couple hours of my time (plus remember when you're running winters you're not wearing out your all seasons, so they last longer and you recover some of the initial cost of winter tires that way) is totally worth it.
Someone who drives less, can choose to stay home if necessary, and is ok with slightly more risk might choose otherwise. So TLDR you don't have to, you'll almost certainly be fine if you don't, but "almost" is a personal cost/benefit analysis.
posted by spitbull at 10:02 AM on February 20
My Mazda3 (FWD) on winter tires provides a noticeable margin of better safety than my Pirelli all seasons as soon as the temps stay below 40, and absolutely on any kind of snow or ice. It strongly affects my sense of security behind the wheel, which is worth a lot on its own.
Would I mostly probably be fine on the Pirellis all year? Sure, and especially if I didn't drive as much as I do (15k miles a year) and could choose not to drive on really bad days? Yes. I've been driving 40 years, starting in New England and including Alaska and the mountain west before I came home, in a wide range of vehicles, on all kinds of tires, and I can easily feel and appreciate the margin of confidence winter tires give me and for me it's utterly worth the hassle of swapping them twice a year.
They have absolutely saved me from various levels of disaster multiple times over the years.
To me, that has almost no cost that's too high. A couple hundred bucks a year and a couple hours of my time (plus remember when you're running winters you're not wearing out your all seasons, so they last longer and you recover some of the initial cost of winter tires that way) is totally worth it.
Someone who drives less, can choose to stay home if necessary, and is ok with slightly more risk might choose otherwise. So TLDR you don't have to, you'll almost certainly be fine if you don't, but "almost" is a personal cost/benefit analysis.
posted by spitbull at 10:02 AM on February 20
And just to add, if I didn't swap to winter tires. I'd miss out on the annual rite of spring I call "getting my dancing shoes back on." For about a week every March my car feels newly light on its feet. All winter I appreciate it for how good it is in winter conditions, but come Pirelli season, I appreciate it for how fun it still is to drive at 10 years old and 158k almost flawless miles.
Amusingly I let Metafilter talk me into buying a Mazda3 almost ten years ago, and it has been the best vehicle I've ever owned. I wouldn't rule one out if you're shopping. Alas the newer ones don't get super competitive gas mileage anymore (and they can be had in AWD if you want, which makes gas mileage a little worse). But they handle great and mine has been stunningly reliable and has rusted relatively little to date. And it gets 40+mpg highway without even trying hard
posted by spitbull at 10:17 AM on February 20 [1 favorite]
Amusingly I let Metafilter talk me into buying a Mazda3 almost ten years ago, and it has been the best vehicle I've ever owned. I wouldn't rule one out if you're shopping. Alas the newer ones don't get super competitive gas mileage anymore (and they can be had in AWD if you want, which makes gas mileage a little worse). But they handle great and mine has been stunningly reliable and has rusted relatively little to date. And it gets 40+mpg highway without even trying hard
posted by spitbull at 10:17 AM on February 20 [1 favorite]
Best answer: In case that is not clear all season is not the same as all weather.
posted by koahiatamadl at 10:32 AM on February 20
posted by koahiatamadl at 10:32 AM on February 20
Best answer: And all weather isn't quite as good as dedicated winters... so the question is if they're good enough for you.
posted by spitbull at 10:36 AM on February 20 [1 favorite]
posted by spitbull at 10:36 AM on February 20 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks to this thread, I'm getting a car I like instead of one I dislike! I'd been about to resign myself to a really-unwanted Impreza, because I wanted a twice-yearly chore even less (especially one that costs money for something we'd use so little). I woke up and thought, before I go get the Impreza I'd test-driven, why not just try asking here. I figured everyone would confirm that I needed snow tires, but at least then I'd know that I wasn't missing out on a better alternative. By the end of the day, instead of having put down a deposit on a car I disliked, I put one down on a Civic that I'm really psyched we'll get to have!
I didn't know that 3PMS all-weathers existed as a distinct category from all-seasons, and that they're what tire pros are recommending so often now for cases like ours. I also didn't know about AutoSocks, which seem like a great thing to have just in case.
Our house is at the bottom of the driveway, and we do often leave the car near the top. But we can't leave it at the very top, and that last bit will be key since we'll be going -- and stopping -- uphill, right before we'll need to pull out into the road. But we can definitely make liberal use of sand on that part.
It's a good point that the cost of a set of snow tires can be balanced out since they extend the life of the regular set, except we don't drive enough to wear out the regular set even if we use them year-round. But that also means that 3PMS's faster wear will likely be fine for us. I'm optimistic that the Civic, all-weathers (not all-seasons), AutoSocks, and sand will do well for us. Thank you so much, everybody!
(Also hi, other Pioneer Valley folks! Nice to see you here, and I appreciate the Northampton Town Fair recommendation!)
posted by daisyace at 5:34 PM on February 20
I didn't know that 3PMS all-weathers existed as a distinct category from all-seasons, and that they're what tire pros are recommending so often now for cases like ours. I also didn't know about AutoSocks, which seem like a great thing to have just in case.
Our house is at the bottom of the driveway, and we do often leave the car near the top. But we can't leave it at the very top, and that last bit will be key since we'll be going -- and stopping -- uphill, right before we'll need to pull out into the road. But we can definitely make liberal use of sand on that part.
It's a good point that the cost of a set of snow tires can be balanced out since they extend the life of the regular set, except we don't drive enough to wear out the regular set even if we use them year-round. But that also means that 3PMS's faster wear will likely be fine for us. I'm optimistic that the Civic, all-weathers (not all-seasons), AutoSocks, and sand will do well for us. Thank you so much, everybody!
(Also hi, other Pioneer Valley folks! Nice to see you here, and I appreciate the Northampton Town Fair recommendation!)
posted by daisyace at 5:34 PM on February 20
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posted by Mrs. Rattery at 4:33 AM on February 19 [3 favorites]