Dude, what happened to my buzz?

May 9, 2006 3:00 AM

Why can't I get high like I used to? (and a bevy of semirelated drug questions)

When I was younger, say 14-16 and 18-20, I smoked a lot of pot (in between I quit for a girl). It was great, my friends and I would giggle ourselves red at the ridiculousness of...everything. Somewhere around twenty, smoking marijuana became more and more unpleasant. I would get quiet and inarticulate, and overly aware of the fact that I was quiet and inarticulate, and paranoid that everyone would think I was creepy because of it. Along with that, I wouldn't feel comfortable in my own skin, in that literally I was itchy everywhere.

I believe that these are all manifestations of problems I'd dealt with before: depression, low-self image, and hypersensitivity early on. I smoke once every six months now, and unless I've been drinking, I don't enjoy it. I'm fine with not smoking anymore, but I would like to know what changed.

Also, was it just me, or is it everyone? I'm still close to all of my old smoking buddies who are now all functional potheads with jobs and almost every time I see them, they're toking up, but I never see them having giggle fits anymore. They're either really lazy and couchbound or they seem exactly the same as they do when they're sober. Does marijuana affect you differently as you age?

Also, while we're on the subject of drugs, are there any findings that relate heroin to creativity? I'm not looking for a new thing, I'm just curious. Are crerative people drawn to heroin, or does heroin somehow aid in creativity?

And, one more, what are legal [drugs] I could be enjoying? I don't like salvia because the high (for me) is too much like pot, datura seeds have given me some intense dreams but haven't done anything for me while I'm awake, I puked up all my amanitas muscaria, and the cactus took too long to dry. Links are always helpful, but if it's coming from erowid, I probably already saw it.

I apologize if it's gauche to ask all these questions under one header, or if gauche is not really the word I'm looking for.

posted by elr to sports, hobbies, & recreation (42 answers total)

It's not just you. I quit smoking in my early twenties for exactly the same reasons you list.
posted by Pericles at 3:15 AM on May 9, 2006

ditto.
posted by milarepa at 3:51 AM on May 9, 2006

Me too.
posted by k8t at 3:54 AM on May 9, 2006

Same here.
posted by Optamystic at 4:21 AM on May 9, 2006

If someone who had never used pot started later in life would they still get the giggles or is it an age-related thing?
posted by grouse at 4:28 AM on May 9, 2006

Well, there are a couple possibilities:

1) You grew acclimatised to pot over the years, so the high wasn't as good
2) You changed pot dealers/your pot dealer changed suppliers/something changed with the pot you were getting

As for heroin attracting creative people/increasing the creative process... I've never heard of any studies linking them. I just read Anthony Kiedis' autobiography, and it seems to me that whenever he was all heroined out, he wasn't very productive creatively. I would say that it's probably the case that creative people are often more likely to search out alternate planes of consciousness, and in that search they often land right in heroin's lap. From what I've read (never done it myself), heroin is quite the rush the first time you do it, and it is INSANELY addictive, so I could see creative folks trying it once, thinking it was AWESOME, and then getting hooked and spiralling ever downward.
posted by antifuse at 4:30 AM on May 9, 2006

Oh, and purely anecdotal evidence as well, but listening to the Keith and the Girl podcasts, "the girl" mentions trying pot for the first time in her 20's some time, and getting all crazy giggly and stuff. So I'd imagine that point number 1 is the likely culprit to your problem.
posted by antifuse at 4:32 AM on May 9, 2006

If we lived in a sane world this kind of question would be answered by scientific study. As it is I would agree that continual use of the green will lead to the effects you suggest.
A protracted period of abstinence may bring back some level of enjoyment, but only for low doses YMMV.
I wonder about the old psychotopics and whether LSD (or mushroom) giggles suffer a similar depracation.
Heroin aids one in sitting (or lying) around doing fuck all AFAIK. If you are lucky enough to get hold of some clean opium you might experience it the disengagement and unconcern of the 'opium fiend'.
As regards legal highs, those irritatingly bouncy people from the drama group/church/other youth group were right. The human brain is quite capable of providing you with a whole bunch of endorfins, opiates or other neuro chemical effects. All you have to do is exercise, practice yoga, spin on the spot or whatever floats your boat.
'Legal highs' in most* countries amount to a bunch of weak assed pseudo drugs that don't have any fun effects. If we all lived toxin free lives we might get something out of them. Salvia is probably the strongest and seems to me like a quick and temporary way to experience the feeling of brain damage.
*that have prohibative drug laws.
So go climb a mountain or make love to someone you find beautiful. These are the legal highs that I would recommend.
Alternatively, get some prescription drugs and absinthe down your neck. Kind of legal, figuratively speaking.
posted by asok at 5:01 AM on May 9, 2006

I've been smoking weed for about 5 years now. My frequency varies with time, and sometimes I take breaks. It certainly doesn't affect me the way it did when I first started, but (particularly if I haven't done any in a week or two) I still get high and have fun. It also has approximately the same creative benefits for me as it's always had. However, being depressed or worried about something, in my experience, will do a lot to negate the enjoyment.

Also, I said smoking, but mostly I use a vaporizer. It's a slightly different high and is preferable for a lot of reasons, in my opinion.
posted by ludwig_van at 5:23 AM on May 9, 2006

My boyfriend (24) doesn't smoke anymore for exactly the same reasons. I didn't start smoking until relatively much later in life, and I thoroughly enjoy it.
posted by hermitosis at 5:46 AM on May 9, 2006

I too quit for exactly those reasons. I have always associated it with the advent of widely available good quality hydroponics and age.
posted by ashbury at 5:50 AM on May 9, 2006

I have experienced the same thing, but then due to different living situations (living in the UK for close to a year) I have begun to get high with an entirely new group of people. The silliness and giggle fits have come back with this new group.

Getting high with the same people over and over again, in my opinion, can get pretty boring.
posted by travosaurus at 6:10 AM on May 9, 2006

I've cut way back for the reasons you cite, and in talking with my father, that's why he didn't enjoy it on his trip through Amsterdam.
posted by klangklangston at 6:16 AM on May 9, 2006

I smoked quite a bit in college then tapered off after I graduated until it was down to only every few months. Eventually I reached a point where I stopped enjoying it, for reasons not unlike those listed above.

Two theories:

1.) It's a result of aging;
2.) Some of the negative effects of smoking disappear when you smoke regularly, but become much more noticeable if you only smoke occasionally. The first few times you get high these negative effects are less obvious relative to the novelty of the whole experience.
posted by justkevin at 6:30 AM on May 9, 2006

Another ditto, but let me add, what I really felt happened was that my tolerance went way down. I now can get high and have great fun on a single small toke; if I smoke more I have all the negative symptoms you describe, especially the physical unpleasantness.

For what it's worth, not everyone has this experience. I have friends who are chronic and have no idea what I'm talking about when I describe this; others who have had exactly the same experience as me.

The scientific literature on this "reverse tolerance" seems inconclusive; here is a probably incomplete literature review, which does have the advantage of featuring this choice sentence: "[i]n experiments by Johnson and Domino (1971), subjects were urged to smoke until they were as high as they had ever been on marihuana and felt they could not smoke any more." Dudes, you were not the first people to do that experiment.
posted by louigi at 6:32 AM on May 9, 2006

I find it makes me anxious and paranoid lately, rather than relaxed and creative like it used to, so I don't do it much anymore either.
posted by electroboy at 6:38 AM on May 9, 2006

This thread is bumming me out, guys.
posted by ludwig_van at 6:55 AM on May 9, 2006

Same here again
posted by poppo at 6:57 AM on May 9, 2006

Unfortunately, most legal highs are legal because they suck. Salvia either makes you sleepy and light-headed from smoke inhalation or sends you on some bizarre otherworldly journey. I've never done nutmeg, datura, kratom or cactus, but they all seem not worth the body-load or intense trip. Stick to good old mushrooms, acid, and pot.

I think the difference in highs you describe has more to do with set and setting. As a silly, happy-go-lucky teenager, pot made you feel silly and happy-go-lucky. As the angsty 20s crept on and you felt the weight of the real world on your shoulders, it became less fun. Of course, this type of phenomenon would be so interesting to study scientifically, but doing scientific studies on illegal drugs is of course a huge hassle thanks to our paternalistic drug laws.
posted by lemur at 7:05 AM on May 9, 2006

Hey I have a solution for you. I was faced with the same problem: enjoyed it all the time, then inexplicably it became terrible -- I began to get really paranoid that I was a huge loser, thought I had no friends, etc. Oddly this happened around 19-20, but I had a hippie friend explain to me why this happens and how to avoid. Anecdotally it has worked for me.

First is that around that time you're forced to be around non-smokers and people who still associate smoking with being Otto from The Simpsons. I remember distinctly people telling me it was immature to smoke out of high school, at many parties it was dissuaded and generally looked down upon. This does begin to make you feel more like an outcast and just feeds the paranoia of the marijuana. If you can rationalize to yourself before you smoke that your square coworkers or friends (you said you had a girlfriend that made you quit, probably still lingering there in your memory) are just being square and you can still function and be a successful person while smoking grass then a large part of the social pariah and loser feelings go away.

Second is the "set and setting", which is much more important with hallucigens but still applies to marijuana. If you get high by yourself on a Friday night you'll get bored and you'll mind will wander to bad thoughts. Try to do it with your friends who giggle and laugh and have a fun time. In my experience smokers are either to a degree burnouts (pot makes them just kind of go blank) or incredibly hyper and fun. If you're one who's not naturally relaxed you're probably like me and need to be actively engaged in something, that does not mean a bunch of guys watching Wonder Showzen and not talking. Try to keep yourself intellectually engaged. Which brings me to my next point, that is the busier you are, the less of a change you'll freak out. Seriously even nerdy stuff is several more times fun high. Read magazines or books, something in which you could then say "Yeah I read that book this weekend" instead of "Yeah I got high and watched TV." Even if you only read a few chapters and get burnt out, it's more than you'd do it you weren't getting high (and at this point I should say reading can be replaced with any activity that makes you feel as if you're making progress: home repair, cooking, etc.)

Also the strain of marijuana matters. This is probably the hardest to control, and I have no emprical evidence to justify it but strains really do give different effects. Some bring you up and some bring you down. Don't be afraid to throw or give your stuff away if you don't like the strain. This is incredibly subjective and it's probably best if you have a variety of sources so you can try to see what you like. This is perhaps somewhat under appreciated, but all marijuana is not the same and especially with the amount of genetic diversity and high potency the effects of the different strains are multiplied.

I know a lot of this sounds sort of corny (like reading and staying engaged), you might say that if you weren't smoking you'd just be watching Letterman or doing nothing anway. This might be true but it underestimates the social pressures not to get high and watch TV, even if you can reason that such social pressures are absurd. The happiest, life-long stoners I know always have some sort of project going. It may be eye-rolling hippie fare but it still manages to click with the Protestant work ethic that most of us were brought into.

Basically once the novelty of being high wears off, getting high ceases to be an end unto itself. Try supplanting getting high with your daily routines.
posted by geoff. at 7:20 AM on May 9, 2006 [1 favorite]

Oops should have grammar checked, not high just stressed out from finals.
posted by geoff. at 7:22 AM on May 9, 2006

to get high "legally" you can drink an 8oz bottle of Robitussen DM. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it as I think it's probably a bit toxic, but you definitely won't be paranoid and it's rather enjoyable, or so I hear.

Thinking of this thread made me remember that even in the height of my pot smoking, I only liked getting high everyday all day. When I'd miss a few days, when I smoked again, I would get all paranoid, hate myself, etc. It would take a few times to get back to normal. That's one of the reasons I eventually quit entirely...circumstances prevented me from getting high all the time, so I just ended up stopping altogether.
posted by milarepa at 7:44 AM on May 9, 2006

I smoked daily for well nigh a decade and for the last 4 years have smoked heavily just 2-3 weeks a year, on my vacations. Where I live, penalties for smoking herbs are severe, so I only smoke when I'm somewhere where it's safer.

I get extraordinarily high and very giggly, full of ideas & "lateral thinking", very quickly. But as the 2-3 weeks wear on, and I smoke more and more (well, I enjoy the act of smoking), I get more and more catatonic, and I'm pretty glad to get back to my normal non-baked lifestyle.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:12 AM on May 9, 2006

I highly doubt it's related to age. I have several friends who didn't start using marijuana until their mid-30's, and they get as giggly as teenagers every time they get high.
posted by pornucopia at 8:29 AM on May 9, 2006

'Set and setting' as they say is a huge differentiator between a good high and a boring high. Over the weekend I was visiting a new friend, and I smoked a fairly small amount, but I was giggly and it felt like it should. Even though he was not smoking with me, I did not feel at all out of place. However, if I smoke by myself on a Friday night, I do tend to feel bored. So I stopped doing that.

Also, try eating it. It takes a little practice to get it right, but generally the best way I've found to injest it is to make it into a butter and store it in the fridge. The high tends to be /--------\ instead of /\ , too. My recipe is as follows (practice with small amounts until you get it right):

1tbsp normal unsalted butter (per .5g of product)
.5g of crumbled product (more or less depending on quality)
cheesecloth, layered for thickness (recommended, but coffee filters work)
small tupperware container

Place layered cheesecloth over the opening of the container, and make sure it is secure and will hold a little weight without falling in. Melt butter over low heat in small sautee pan. Once it is liquified, drop in product in a concentrated spot, and turn heat down to where the liquid is just barely bubbling. Watch over it for around 15 mins. It will start turning brown, so you want to kill the heat as soon as you see it get that dark. Pour from pan over cheesecloth to strain. Give it a few minutes to drain, and then squeeze out remaining liquid from the solid mass into the container. You should be able to get almost all of it. Seal it and pop it into the fridge to get solid, usually overnight. When you check it the next day, it will probably be green, even though the melted liquid definitely didn't look green the night before.

When you want to have some, grab some bread and toast it, using the pot-butter as a spread. Take it on an empty stomach, and then actually try to eat something again about 30 mins later to help with digestion. It takes around an hour to start to come on. I've found that eating a meal about 30 mins after the toast really starts the ball rolling, so to speak.

Pot also quickly builds up a tolerance. I combat this by smoking small amounts maybe once or twice a week. If I start to notice that it's just burning me out, then I stop for a few weeks. Like anything, it is good with moderation. Too much, and you get used to its effects and you will tire of it easily. Same with eating a PBJ for lunch every day. You'll get sick of it.

I do not associate pot-smoking with being a loser. If anything, my friends and I came to an agreement that the people like us who smoke regularly and are otherwise normal professional people tend to enjoy it that much more. To us, it's preferable over alcohol. We don't smoke pot as some sort of teenage rebellion thing. It's a good drug with a good high and if someone wants to think I'm a loser for doing it, then I'd be a loser to give a shit what they think.
posted by ninjew at 8:39 AM on May 9, 2006

Could be worse, somewhere around 5 or 6 years ago it started making me physically ill. Last two times (and they were for sure the LAST) it made me physically ill to the point of vomiting.

As far as fun drugs I can't think of anything I ever enjoyed as much as I did ecstasy. It's not a cheap or quick high though. You don't find booze pleasant enough? It's got much better social acceptance and quality control with a lower chance of incarceration...
posted by phearlez at 8:40 AM on May 9, 2006

i think, like others state, the weed just got stronger. no longer was 4 month old hash smuggled from morroco (that would make you pleasantly high) acceptable to the average punter, like it was when i was a lad. instead demand grew for hydroponic grown mutant plants (from seeds bought in from amsterdam) which zombiefied the smoker.

or so i'm told. guinness is my drug of choice now and i'm confortable with that.
posted by tnai at 8:55 AM on May 9, 2006

for that matter, why is it that, in my experience mind you, those women who do smoke pot tend to quit in their early twenties (unrelated to childbirth/rearing) while guys continue into their fifties?

I mean, the number of friends/acquaintances I have/know who toke on the DL because their wives/girlfriends "reformed"...
posted by the sobsister at 9:05 AM on May 9, 2006

Can be related to the stuff you're smoking. From what I've heard, at least here in Europe, pot has been getting stronger and stronger over the last few years. Which, as tnai has pointed out above, is related to the "mutant plants" from Amsterdam.

According to some sources, these plants don't make you giggle anymore.

I feel like a newspaper reporter now.
posted by richardh at 9:22 AM on May 9, 2006

I don't know if the "weed has gotten stronger" answer holds much weight. Assuming we're not all the same age, it assumes a fairly steady increase in weed quality over the years, which I don't think is the case (or so my friends tell me...).

I do think that people tend to buy better weed as they get older, which might explain it.

I also think that pot is just generally a mood enhancer. People in their twenties are full of uncertainty and anxiety about their identity, their sense of worth, what other people think about them, etc. So, to me, it's a natural progression.
posted by mkultra at 9:31 AM on May 9, 2006

The sativa and indica strains yield different highs; one's a couchlock, the other is a mindbuzz. Could be you're using the wrong strain for the effect you want to achieve.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:45 AM on May 9, 2006

I noticed that, over time, the effect of alcohol on me changed. It used to make me very giggly and silly; now it makes me relaxed and sedate, but not giggly.

Your brain is still changing well into your 30's; the so-called 'final myelination cycle' doesn't complete until around age 35. It is this myelination cycle that fully insulates the dorsal longitudinal fasciculus, the large axonal superhighway that connects the prefrontal areas to the rest of your brain. Before the axons are fully myelinated, the connection just isn't very good.

When I suggest to you that the prefrontal areas are responsible for restraint, wisdom, and good judgment, a theory immediately begins to form about why unmyelinated teenagers aren't quite so responsible as, say, their parents.

Now, suppose you introduce a chemical that has the effect of globally taking down neural communication a notch. Your parietal, sensorimotor and temporal connections - short ones - may be running at 10/10. You take them down a notch, they're running at 9/10 - 10% worse than they were before. But your frontal connections may be running at 2/10. If you take them down the same notch, so they're running at 1/10, they're 50% worse than they were before. In other words, a small amount of booze, or THC takes the youngster's frontal cortex off-line disproportionately to the amount it takes the visual or sensory or motor cortex off line.

I agree that in a sane world scientists would be investigating these things.
posted by ikkyu2 at 9:52 AM on May 9, 2006 [2 favorites]

Also quit in my early twenties, same reason.
posted by desuetude at 10:23 AM on May 9, 2006

milarepa writes:

to get high "legally" you can drink an 8oz bottle of Robitussen DM. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it as I think it's probably a bit toxic, but you definitely won't be paranoid and it's rather enjoyable, or so I hear.

See, here's one of the problems with asking for advice on drugs from random people you'll never meet.

Dextromethorphan HBr (the cough suppressant ingredient) is indeed psychoactive. Look at the Erowid DXM vault for trip reports, etc. and varying degrees of "enjoyable" -- but you need to know that if the cough meds have anything else as an active ingredient, it can make you very, very sick. DXM in large doses is also pretty hard on your liver. And it's a dissociative, which could lead to you wandering the streets naked at 3am with a vacuum cleaner hose on your cock because, well, that's perfectly reasonable in that state. (No, I never did that).
posted by 5MeoCMP at 10:35 AM on May 9, 2006

I started smoking in my mid 20s - I still got the giggles.

I'm surprised nobody is mentioning the amount of toking. If I take a small hit from the bong, I'm lightly stoned and chipper. If I take a few bong hits I become zombified. Giggling I think is the result of the setting. If you're with chill people, smoking makes it that much more fun.

Regarding the strenght of modern day pot, I've read that it's all bunk. THC content varies between 3% and 15% based on the cultivation methods. It's easy to moderate based on plant's strength though (at least I've had no problems).

Finally, wikipedia has an interesting entry on drug prohibition (and it's origins). Read it, it's interesting.
posted by aeighty at 11:23 AM on May 9, 2006

The average pot potency has increased, just not as dramatically as Govt. officials claim in the press ("10 to 20 times stronger").
posted by daksya at 11:34 AM on May 9, 2006

And, one more, what are legal [drugs] I could be enjoying? I don't like salvia because the high (for me) is too much like pot, datura seeds have given me some intense dreams but haven't done anything for me while I'm awake, I puked up all my amanitas muscaria, and the cactus took too long to dry.

Um, if it's legal, it's probably not any good.
posted by delmoi at 12:03 PM on May 9, 2006

If the weed is getting stronger, why not, you know, smoke less of it? and see if you get the giggles.
posted by delmoi at 12:10 PM on May 9, 2006

I've had the same experience, which is why I rarely smoke weed anymore save the rare time now and then.

For me, it was more like the high stopped being fun almost at all. Paranoia, feeling twitchy and general sense of confusion were the symptoms I had, and the fun had been sucked right out of it. I blamed it on geography, assumed that the source was just different. Since then I realized it's not the case.

The reason why this happens, I would presume, is the same reason why cigarette smokers don't feel tingly all over like they did the first time they had one. Or why you don't feel giddy and dizzy after only one or two beers anymore (lightweights aside!). Your body gets used to it, and the benefits continue to decrease every time you smoke.
posted by SassHat at 12:36 PM on May 9, 2006

by the by, when I asked about legal drugs

I meant crazy all-natural shit I've never heard of.
Or heavily tested "research chemical" drugs that were only made to be used as drugs.

Not household products. Shoot me if I ever think Robo-Tripping is a good idea again.
posted by elr at 1:40 PM on May 9, 2006

Oh shit. You said NOT household products. I thought we had our weekend all lined up.
posted by ruby.aftermath at 2:52 PM on May 9, 2006

point number 2 from justkevin nails it.
posted by Goofyy at 3:14 AM on May 11, 2006