Safely traveling in South America, or learning to parent adult children
February 5, 2024 11:51 AM Subscribe
My underemployed, kind of broke, 27-year-old adult son is going to Nicaragua to work remotely for a month in a bungalow.
I am not even sure where to start with all this.
My partner, who is prone to anxiety, immediately read the state department alerts and is convinced he will be jailed or kidnapped and is waking up at 2:00 a.m. unable to sleep. She is also struggling with depression. We have offered to pay the difference in airfare to a safer locale. He is indignant and says that parts of America are more dangerous. Guess who is stuck in the middle. Guess who always places themselves in the middle.
- How do I persuade myself or my spouse that travel to N. is relatively safe?
- How do I determine if a place is safe? Its very complicated, as discussed here
My partner, who is prone to anxiety, immediately read the state department alerts and is convinced he will be jailed or kidnapped and is waking up at 2:00 a.m. unable to sleep. She is also struggling with depression. We have offered to pay the difference in airfare to a safer locale. He is indignant and says that parts of America are more dangerous. Guess who is stuck in the middle. Guess who always places themselves in the middle.
- How do I deal with a depressed, catastrophizing, anxious person who is not entirely irrational?
- How do we let go and let my son make terrible choices?
- What other questions should I be asking?
How do we let go and let my son make terrible choices?
You just do. It doesn't mean you won't worry or won't lose sleep. But you have to let him live his own life and make his own decisions. You can't keep him bundled up in cotton wool/bubble wrap, no matter how much you want to.
Signed, parent of a soon-to-be-27-year-old and a 23-year-old. It is HARD, I know.
posted by cooker girl at 12:27 PM on February 5 [23 favorites]
You just do. It doesn't mean you won't worry or won't lose sleep. But you have to let him live his own life and make his own decisions. You can't keep him bundled up in cotton wool/bubble wrap, no matter how much you want to.
Signed, parent of a soon-to-be-27-year-old and a 23-year-old. It is HARD, I know.
posted by cooker girl at 12:27 PM on February 5 [23 favorites]
Your son is leaving, regardless of the effects this will have on your spouse or you.
Guess who is stuck in the middle. Guess who always places themselves in the middle.
It doesn't have to be that way. It's not like you have to persuade your spouse to let your son leave, or that you need to explain it to your spouse or make her feel ok with it, or persuade your son to stay and explain your spouse to him. Because your son is leaving, no matter what you do or don't do. It makes no difference. You can step out of the middle.
It sounds like managing your spouse's mental state is something you've been doing for a while now, but you rightly suspect that this thing will be too big for you to manage. So. Assume your son WILL leave and your spouse WILL crash, and plan accordingly. Does she have a therapist? Does she have other support? Do you?
How do I persuade myself or my spouse that travel to N. is relatively safe?
I mean, what is "relatively safe"? What level of safe would be enough for you? My parents would be horrified if I moved to NYC or Chicago.
Maybe a better question is, if it isn't that safe and he's going anyway, what can you do to feel reassured? Can you strike a deal with him to send you a message (or even just an emoji) every week or so that he's still alive?
I'm going out on a limb to suggest that maybe your son is leaving to prove to himself and to you that he CAN do it. That he can take on a stupid risk, and that his anxious parents can't stop him. I think this might be the time to find out how you can deal with this feeling, rather than try to make it go away.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:34 PM on February 5 [23 favorites]
Guess who is stuck in the middle. Guess who always places themselves in the middle.
It doesn't have to be that way. It's not like you have to persuade your spouse to let your son leave, or that you need to explain it to your spouse or make her feel ok with it, or persuade your son to stay and explain your spouse to him. Because your son is leaving, no matter what you do or don't do. It makes no difference. You can step out of the middle.
It sounds like managing your spouse's mental state is something you've been doing for a while now, but you rightly suspect that this thing will be too big for you to manage. So. Assume your son WILL leave and your spouse WILL crash, and plan accordingly. Does she have a therapist? Does she have other support? Do you?
How do I persuade myself or my spouse that travel to N. is relatively safe?
I mean, what is "relatively safe"? What level of safe would be enough for you? My parents would be horrified if I moved to NYC or Chicago.
Maybe a better question is, if it isn't that safe and he's going anyway, what can you do to feel reassured? Can you strike a deal with him to send you a message (or even just an emoji) every week or so that he's still alive?
I'm going out on a limb to suggest that maybe your son is leaving to prove to himself and to you that he CAN do it. That he can take on a stupid risk, and that his anxious parents can't stop him. I think this might be the time to find out how you can deal with this feeling, rather than try to make it go away.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:34 PM on February 5 [23 favorites]
How do we let go and let my son make terrible choices?
Unless his job is in the drug trade I'm not sure this is a terrible choice. It's a choice that has some risk and is anxiety-producing. (I'm assuming working from a bungalow means he's working from home at remote work?)
Anyways...your son is 27, so this is the day you let him make his own choices. You say "wow, son, this makes me a bit anxious but I support you. Do you want to tell me more about what you're thinking?"
And then you ask him a few key questions like:
- Is your passport ready to go? Do you know what consular services are/are not available?
- do you have plans for cell service/wifi? Backup plans?
- How will I know you're okay? If I don't hear from you in X days, I will do X thing. Do you have contact info you can share with me?
- Have you thought about how to avoid trouble there? Are you familiar with local drug and alcohol laws?
- What will you do if you get in trouble?
- Kid, I trust you to get help if you need it. I love you. I have your back.
You didn't have a child, presumably, to lock them at home until they are 40.
I know - trust me, I know - how easy that is to say and how hard to do it. Since I lost an infant child, and that was excruciating, I am opposed to anything that puts my sons at risk.
But - I also regret that my daughter did not get to go where she wanted in the world, including Nicaragua. I want my kids to experience life. Life has risks. Some of their favourite activities (rock climbing...) have risks. At your son's age, it really is his choice.
You let go by accepting that loving your son means the possibility of pain, although statistically, it's not that likely. Help him identify the risks he can mitigate, given this plan, and then just love him and spend good days together. Living means risk. It really, really does.
One way I deal with my anxiety is to make sure I spend a few minutes every day enjoying my kids while we're together, because in the end, the only day we are sure of is today. The only time we are given together is now.
How do I deal with a depressed, catastrophizing, anxious person who is not entirely irrational?
Professional help.
Without that, I'm not sure there's anything else you can do. But the same principles apply.
I think you could tell your partner "our kid could get hit by a car tomorrow. Let's just love him today."
posted by warriorqueen at 12:36 PM on February 5 [45 favorites]
Unless his job is in the drug trade I'm not sure this is a terrible choice. It's a choice that has some risk and is anxiety-producing. (I'm assuming working from a bungalow means he's working from home at remote work?)
Anyways...your son is 27, so this is the day you let him make his own choices. You say "wow, son, this makes me a bit anxious but I support you. Do you want to tell me more about what you're thinking?"
And then you ask him a few key questions like:
- Is your passport ready to go? Do you know what consular services are/are not available?
- do you have plans for cell service/wifi? Backup plans?
- How will I know you're okay? If I don't hear from you in X days, I will do X thing. Do you have contact info you can share with me?
- Have you thought about how to avoid trouble there? Are you familiar with local drug and alcohol laws?
- What will you do if you get in trouble?
- Kid, I trust you to get help if you need it. I love you. I have your back.
You didn't have a child, presumably, to lock them at home until they are 40.
I know - trust me, I know - how easy that is to say and how hard to do it. Since I lost an infant child, and that was excruciating, I am opposed to anything that puts my sons at risk.
But - I also regret that my daughter did not get to go where she wanted in the world, including Nicaragua. I want my kids to experience life. Life has risks. Some of their favourite activities (rock climbing...) have risks. At your son's age, it really is his choice.
You let go by accepting that loving your son means the possibility of pain, although statistically, it's not that likely. Help him identify the risks he can mitigate, given this plan, and then just love him and spend good days together. Living means risk. It really, really does.
One way I deal with my anxiety is to make sure I spend a few minutes every day enjoying my kids while we're together, because in the end, the only day we are sure of is today. The only time we are given together is now.
How do I deal with a depressed, catastrophizing, anxious person who is not entirely irrational?
Professional help.
Without that, I'm not sure there's anything else you can do. But the same principles apply.
I think you could tell your partner "our kid could get hit by a car tomorrow. Let's just love him today."
posted by warriorqueen at 12:36 PM on February 5 [45 favorites]
Data point: my sister made equally bad choices at that age. She and my mother screamed at each other constantly. My father and I were, caught in the middle. She is now in her late 50s and is still a free spirit. She will never be the stable suburban dweller that my mother still wants (and complains to me constantly about), but she’s alive and warm and in a nice house (owned by her partner).
posted by Melismata at 12:38 PM on February 5 [6 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 12:38 PM on February 5 [6 favorites]
First, a caveat - I have not been to Nicaragua (I have been lightly following the news there as my partner have it in the mix of places to maybe visit) but I have lived in a few countries that the State Department categorized as Level 3: Reconsider Travel (what Nicaragua currently is). I know I caused my parents a bit of worry.
Ok, some points:
1. The State Department is very conservative - they are pretty risk adverse, and from their perspective they'd rather Americans travel to low-risk vacation spots. Their warnings are also about protecting the most clueless Americans - certainly, navigating certain countries requires a bit more judgement and preparation. In your son's case, he should (if he hasn't already) make a point of reading local newspapers, looking up where the nearest hospital/clinic is in case he needs medical attention, etc.
2. Most violence/political unrest does not target tourists. Yes, there are exceptions, but the majority of crime against tourists (globally speaking) is property crime, which can be mitigated using basic common sense and making sure you've got copies of your passport/important documents in case you do get robbed. Your son should avoid participating in (or even closely observing) any political demonstrations.
Since you mentioned specifically a fear of kidnapping or being jailed: statistically speaking, kidnappings are well-planned events (I mean, they're complicated to pull off!) that target people who are known to be attached to wealth - either local elites and their family or foreigners attached to big multinational companies. Random kind of broke 27 year olds are typically not a target for elaborate plots. As for being jailed - why would that happen? Is he planning on breaking any laws? Nicaragua is knowns as a police state, and so your son will want to follow all local laws - Americans do sometimes get in trouble thinking they are above the law in foreign countries, but yeah, that's not the case.
3. Your son is correct - he is more likely to be a victim of a crime in some parts of the US than some parts of Nicaragua (or really any country).
4. It's best practice to stay at a licensed hotel or hostel. Not that all AirBNBs are bad or anything, but licensed hotels/hostels are just more reliable overall - and there are plenty that are very cheap in Nicaragua.
5. If he doesn't know Spanish, he should learn as much as he can before going, as the more of the local language you know, the better situational awareness you'll have.
Anyway, I'm not sure how you deal with your own anxiety or your spouse's anxiety, but this is your problem, do not make it your son's problem. You can encourage him to do the various best practices, but do not dump your anxiety on him, if you want him to keep you informed of his travels.
posted by coffeecat at 12:38 PM on February 5 [17 favorites]
Ok, some points:
1. The State Department is very conservative - they are pretty risk adverse, and from their perspective they'd rather Americans travel to low-risk vacation spots. Their warnings are also about protecting the most clueless Americans - certainly, navigating certain countries requires a bit more judgement and preparation. In your son's case, he should (if he hasn't already) make a point of reading local newspapers, looking up where the nearest hospital/clinic is in case he needs medical attention, etc.
2. Most violence/political unrest does not target tourists. Yes, there are exceptions, but the majority of crime against tourists (globally speaking) is property crime, which can be mitigated using basic common sense and making sure you've got copies of your passport/important documents in case you do get robbed. Your son should avoid participating in (or even closely observing) any political demonstrations.
Since you mentioned specifically a fear of kidnapping or being jailed: statistically speaking, kidnappings are well-planned events (I mean, they're complicated to pull off!) that target people who are known to be attached to wealth - either local elites and their family or foreigners attached to big multinational companies. Random kind of broke 27 year olds are typically not a target for elaborate plots. As for being jailed - why would that happen? Is he planning on breaking any laws? Nicaragua is knowns as a police state, and so your son will want to follow all local laws - Americans do sometimes get in trouble thinking they are above the law in foreign countries, but yeah, that's not the case.
3. Your son is correct - he is more likely to be a victim of a crime in some parts of the US than some parts of Nicaragua (or really any country).
4. It's best practice to stay at a licensed hotel or hostel. Not that all AirBNBs are bad or anything, but licensed hotels/hostels are just more reliable overall - and there are plenty that are very cheap in Nicaragua.
5. If he doesn't know Spanish, he should learn as much as he can before going, as the more of the local language you know, the better situational awareness you'll have.
Anyway, I'm not sure how you deal with your own anxiety or your spouse's anxiety, but this is your problem, do not make it your son's problem. You can encourage him to do the various best practices, but do not dump your anxiety on him, if you want him to keep you informed of his travels.
posted by coffeecat at 12:38 PM on February 5 [17 favorites]
How do I determine if a place is safe? Its very complicated, as discussed here
For starters is Nicaragua is part of Central America (which is part of North America) here is a similar evaluation for Central America.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:56 PM on February 5 [6 favorites]
For starters is Nicaragua is part of Central America (which is part of North America) here is a similar evaluation for Central America.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:56 PM on February 5 [6 favorites]
My parents could write a narrative pretty similar to what you have under the fold.
I live in Chicago.
Have lived here on my own for nearly 20 years.
How we experience perceived threat is relative.
posted by phunniemee at 12:56 PM on February 5 [10 favorites]
I live in Chicago.
Have lived here on my own for nearly 20 years.
How we experience perceived threat is relative.
posted by phunniemee at 12:56 PM on February 5 [10 favorites]
The State Department is very conservative - they are pretty risk adverse, and from their perspective they'd rather Americans travel to low-risk vacation spots.
Assuming there's no particular risk to Americans in Nicaragua, it may be helpful for your spouse to read travel guidance from other countries. I remember when I went to Spain, the State Department's guidance was like "you're going to be robbed and then ETA will blow you up" and the UK guidance amounted to "ETA generally give warnings before bombings. Heed those warnings." Lo and behold, I was not blown up by ETA (nor was there any sort of alert while I was there).
posted by hoyland at 12:58 PM on February 5 [5 favorites]
Assuming there's no particular risk to Americans in Nicaragua, it may be helpful for your spouse to read travel guidance from other countries. I remember when I went to Spain, the State Department's guidance was like "you're going to be robbed and then ETA will blow you up" and the UK guidance amounted to "ETA generally give warnings before bombings. Heed those warnings." Lo and behold, I was not blown up by ETA (nor was there any sort of alert while I was there).
posted by hoyland at 12:58 PM on February 5 [5 favorites]
Depending on specifics, it really doesn't sound like a bad choice. I think it sounds like a pretty interesting way of putting his toe into the water on being a digital nomad.
And FWIW, I'm an old (closing in on 50). I'm a parent. I'm a worrier.
Travel is really good for people. And "slow travel," like your son is doing, where you actually live in a place for a month or more, rather than seeing it as a tourist, is a relaxed and low stress way to check out an area.
You mention he's "underemployed." Lot of that going around in his generation. If that still applies to him at 27, he's probably never going to summer in the Loire Valley and he may never do a three month walkabout in Australia. But if he's found a way he can afford to try an entirely different culture for an extended time, that he can afford within his current circumstances, without giving up his job? That's a special opportunity.
It's really all about how he's going to go about it. My guess is, his plan probably has more layers and makes more sense than you're giving it credit for.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:01 PM on February 5 [11 favorites]
And FWIW, I'm an old (closing in on 50). I'm a parent. I'm a worrier.
Travel is really good for people. And "slow travel," like your son is doing, where you actually live in a place for a month or more, rather than seeing it as a tourist, is a relaxed and low stress way to check out an area.
You mention he's "underemployed." Lot of that going around in his generation. If that still applies to him at 27, he's probably never going to summer in the Loire Valley and he may never do a three month walkabout in Australia. But if he's found a way he can afford to try an entirely different culture for an extended time, that he can afford within his current circumstances, without giving up his job? That's a special opportunity.
It's really all about how he's going to go about it. My guess is, his plan probably has more layers and makes more sense than you're giving it credit for.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:01 PM on February 5 [11 favorites]
Also, where inside a country someone is visiting can change things quite a lot.
I live in what is sometimes ranked the 3rd safest city in both North and South America. It’s in Mexico.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:05 PM on February 5 [4 favorites]
I live in what is sometimes ranked the 3rd safest city in both North and South America. It’s in Mexico.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:05 PM on February 5 [4 favorites]
How do I persuade myself or my spouse that travel to N. is relatively safe?
Do you need to? He can take this trip with or without you two believing it’s safe. You might be better served to spend this energy on the question about learning to let go.
How do I determine if a place is safe?
As you note, a complicated question with no objective answer for most places. Maybe the energy would be better spent learning why your son considers it safe and what he’s excited about doing there, since it’s his assessment that matters.
How do I deal with a depressed, catastrophizing, anxious person who is not entirely irrational?
You encourage them to work with their care team, or to get a care team if they don’t have one. You remind them about any self-soothing strategies they have. Sometime when they’re relatively steady, talk with them about what else/more they would like you to do.
How do we let go and let my son make terrible choices?
On the most basic level, you just do. You already are. Unless you’re planning on stealing his passport you have no choice but to let him make this choice. Beyond that, you talk to each other and your therapists and your friends and you worry and you feel sad but you do not make any of that your son’s problem to resolve.
What other questions should I be asking?
What are your plans? What are you most excited about? Are you going to meet any friends? Why this location? Can you recommend any good books or travel shows or whatever I can use to learn more about where you’ll be located?
Sure, also ask when he’s planning to go and come back and if he expects to be reachable in the event of emergency and if not, whether you can have the number of the bungalow owner in case you need to reach him urgently. But mostly, just do your best to be enthusiastic about and interested in this adventure he’s chosen, and to keep communication about it relaxed so if he *does* end up in any trouble he’ll be willing to call you knowing you’re on his side, not standing by to say “I told you so.”
posted by Stacey at 1:05 PM on February 5 [5 favorites]
Do you need to? He can take this trip with or without you two believing it’s safe. You might be better served to spend this energy on the question about learning to let go.
How do I determine if a place is safe?
As you note, a complicated question with no objective answer for most places. Maybe the energy would be better spent learning why your son considers it safe and what he’s excited about doing there, since it’s his assessment that matters.
How do I deal with a depressed, catastrophizing, anxious person who is not entirely irrational?
You encourage them to work with their care team, or to get a care team if they don’t have one. You remind them about any self-soothing strategies they have. Sometime when they’re relatively steady, talk with them about what else/more they would like you to do.
How do we let go and let my son make terrible choices?
On the most basic level, you just do. You already are. Unless you’re planning on stealing his passport you have no choice but to let him make this choice. Beyond that, you talk to each other and your therapists and your friends and you worry and you feel sad but you do not make any of that your son’s problem to resolve.
What other questions should I be asking?
What are your plans? What are you most excited about? Are you going to meet any friends? Why this location? Can you recommend any good books or travel shows or whatever I can use to learn more about where you’ll be located?
Sure, also ask when he’s planning to go and come back and if he expects to be reachable in the event of emergency and if not, whether you can have the number of the bungalow owner in case you need to reach him urgently. But mostly, just do your best to be enthusiastic about and interested in this adventure he’s chosen, and to keep communication about it relaxed so if he *does* end up in any trouble he’ll be willing to call you knowing you’re on his side, not standing by to say “I told you so.”
posted by Stacey at 1:05 PM on February 5 [5 favorites]
You are still his parents, but you are in no way (unless there is a conservatorship or other legal matter) his guardians.
I've made all kinds of weird decisions that made my parents anxious, decisions about international travel, relocating, jobs. I've done all kinds of things in my life that they would not do. I've lived all over the country, traveled around the world. I've never once had to call upon them to bail me out, and I'm still here, still somehow doing the things I want to do. I haven't been to Nicaragua, but I've certainly been to bordering countries without incident. Some things have been amazing, some have only gone OK. But no disasters.
The big question here is whether he has a history of asking you to bail him out. Bailing him out in Nicaragua might be tough.
Or does he just live his life in a different way the two of you would, and follows his own muse and doesn't ask for much? In which case, this might be more about personal anxiety than actual risk.
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 1:06 PM on February 5 [7 favorites]
I've made all kinds of weird decisions that made my parents anxious, decisions about international travel, relocating, jobs. I've done all kinds of things in my life that they would not do. I've lived all over the country, traveled around the world. I've never once had to call upon them to bail me out, and I'm still here, still somehow doing the things I want to do. I haven't been to Nicaragua, but I've certainly been to bordering countries without incident. Some things have been amazing, some have only gone OK. But no disasters.
The big question here is whether he has a history of asking you to bail him out. Bailing him out in Nicaragua might be tough.
Or does he just live his life in a different way the two of you would, and follows his own muse and doesn't ask for much? In which case, this might be more about personal anxiety than actual risk.
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 1:06 PM on February 5 [7 favorites]
This is not something you get to control. He is 27 years old, he is well beyond the age where you should be having that sort of influence on him.
Just be supportive. If his plan is half-baked ask open questions and let him figure out the details. By your own admission, you know nothing about Nicaragua. Find out what he is looking forward to, why he wants to go there.
If you have access to money/credit that would pay for a short-notice flight, either because your son needs one home or you need to go out there to him, then that can be helpful. That would be true regardless of which "plane ride away" destination he decided to move to.
posted by plonkee at 1:10 PM on February 5 [5 favorites]
Just be supportive. If his plan is half-baked ask open questions and let him figure out the details. By your own admission, you know nothing about Nicaragua. Find out what he is looking forward to, why he wants to go there.
If you have access to money/credit that would pay for a short-notice flight, either because your son needs one home or you need to go out there to him, then that can be helpful. That would be true regardless of which "plane ride away" destination he decided to move to.
posted by plonkee at 1:10 PM on February 5 [5 favorites]
Ideally, your son would agree to some kind of contact plan and backups - say he calls you every other day or sends you a message every morning. You on the other hand have the address of his lodging, the number for the local emergency services, and ideally the number of the lodging owner or other staff. As long as whatever plan is negotiated by both sides - let's say "if we don't hear from you by 3PM, we'll call front desk and ask them to check if you're in your room" - it should give him a sense of ownership of it, as well as an incentive to proactively tell you if he's going partying and might be late with his sign of life (and likewise, an incentive to be proactive about letting you know in a different way if he, say, loses his phone).
Source: I was that 20-something gallivanting off on her own with anxious parents. It helped them. And the one time they did get to initiate the backup plan of calling the front desk, it turned out I was stuck in a hospital ER, not speaking the language, without a working phone. Thankfully by the time they called the right hospital, I was already being seen by an English-speaking doctor, but if my luck had been worse, their assistance - and that of a friend who spoke the local language, who they lined up in advance - would have been invaluable.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 1:29 PM on February 5 [1 favorite]
Source: I was that 20-something gallivanting off on her own with anxious parents. It helped them. And the one time they did get to initiate the backup plan of calling the front desk, it turned out I was stuck in a hospital ER, not speaking the language, without a working phone. Thankfully by the time they called the right hospital, I was already being seen by an English-speaking doctor, but if my luck had been worse, their assistance - and that of a friend who spoke the local language, who they lined up in advance - would have been invaluable.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 1:29 PM on February 5 [1 favorite]
And then you ask him a few key questions like:
- Is your passport ready to go? Do you know what consular services are/are not available?
- do you have plans for cell service/wifi? Backup plans?
- How will I know you're okay? If I don't hear from you in X days, I will do X thing. Do you have contact info you can share with me?
- Have you thought about how to avoid trouble there? Are you familiar with local drug and alcohol laws?
- What will you do if you get in trouble?
- Kid, I trust you to get help if you need it. I love you. I have your back.
These are great questions.
You might want to place them in the context that *you* are anxious about these things, and *you* are looking for an understanding of them.
The State Department is very conservative - they are pretty risk adverse, and from their perspective they'd rather Americans travel to low-risk vacation spots.
Oh God yes. If you believed the State Department you’d never leave your house.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:31 PM on February 5 [16 favorites]
- Is your passport ready to go? Do you know what consular services are/are not available?
- do you have plans for cell service/wifi? Backup plans?
- How will I know you're okay? If I don't hear from you in X days, I will do X thing. Do you have contact info you can share with me?
- Have you thought about how to avoid trouble there? Are you familiar with local drug and alcohol laws?
- What will you do if you get in trouble?
- Kid, I trust you to get help if you need it. I love you. I have your back.
These are great questions.
You might want to place them in the context that *you* are anxious about these things, and *you* are looking for an understanding of them.
The State Department is very conservative - they are pretty risk adverse, and from their perspective they'd rather Americans travel to low-risk vacation spots.
Oh God yes. If you believed the State Department you’d never leave your house.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:31 PM on February 5 [16 favorites]
How do we let go and let my son make terrible choices?
I mean step one of that would be determining that a choice is indeed "terrible," and there is no evidence that this is one of them. Do you know how to let go and let your son make perfectly ordinary choices? Why not just file this as one of those, in the absence of evidence to the contrary? (And if you do not really know how to let your son make perfectly ordinary choices, well then you gotta start working on that kind of stuff with a professional.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:36 PM on February 5 [5 favorites]
I mean step one of that would be determining that a choice is indeed "terrible," and there is no evidence that this is one of them. Do you know how to let go and let your son make perfectly ordinary choices? Why not just file this as one of those, in the absence of evidence to the contrary? (And if you do not really know how to let your son make perfectly ordinary choices, well then you gotta start working on that kind of stuff with a professional.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:36 PM on February 5 [5 favorites]
He is an adult man.He is making a decision.Your partner will worry anyway. Cut the apron strings.
posted by Czjewel at 2:06 PM on February 5
posted by Czjewel at 2:06 PM on February 5
The homicide rate in Nicaragua is like 8 to 100k, and in the U.S. it's like 6 in 100k, if that helps contextualize. To further contextualize: many--perhaps most--U.S. travelers would not hesitate to visit Belize or Costa Rica, but both countries have much higher homicide rates than Nicaragua. I know homicide is but one crime, but it's one of the big ones that matters. Also I think Nicaragua is the largest country in Central America, and so it would be helpful to know where he intends to be. You will get better advice if you can say specifics about location.
I've traveled to Mexico, which has lots of places at Nicaragua's "Level 3" (Reconsider), and to Level 3 Guatemala, where I've spent maybe 6 or 8 months total over the years. I am a risk averse person and I would not hesitate to return to (parts of) Mexico or to Guatemala. I would also not hesitate to visit Nicaragua in theory.
I don't really accept the premise that your son is making a "terrible" choice. Late 20s is kind of the end of the period before life's responsibilities dramatically narrow your opportunities for just . . . enjoying life. I think it's wise to get out there if you can afford to get out there. From a parenting perspective it would be better to not try to convince him off the trip, and to instead help him make it better! Some things that come to mind:
1. He should stay as long as he can afford to! So much of life just fucking sucks, honestly think about how much of life is just absolute drudgery. If a person has the luxury to do the expat thing for awhile, that is amazing for them. It can be really beneficial in the short-term and the long-term.
2. If he can stay for longer than a month, he should learn Spanish if he doesn't know it. It's good to know another language! (It also makes you safer in the places where that language is spoken.) Reddit will be full of advice for the best Spanish schools in any city.
3. Another benefit of attaching to an organization like a school is that you make friends. Having friends makes you more safe, because you benefit from being in a group and having expertise from people who've been somewhere longer. Long term travel is an opportunity to make really edifying, sometimes lifelong relationships with travelers and locals. Take it from someone who's done it! I just spent an hour on Zoom with my old Spanish teacher the other night, and will be visiting a good friend I made 15 years ago in Central America this summer.
If you have the time and can afford to, you could also consider visiting him. It might ease your mind and be a good family trip.
posted by kensington314 at 2:09 PM on February 5 [4 favorites]
I've traveled to Mexico, which has lots of places at Nicaragua's "Level 3" (Reconsider), and to Level 3 Guatemala, where I've spent maybe 6 or 8 months total over the years. I am a risk averse person and I would not hesitate to return to (parts of) Mexico or to Guatemala. I would also not hesitate to visit Nicaragua in theory.
I don't really accept the premise that your son is making a "terrible" choice. Late 20s is kind of the end of the period before life's responsibilities dramatically narrow your opportunities for just . . . enjoying life. I think it's wise to get out there if you can afford to get out there. From a parenting perspective it would be better to not try to convince him off the trip, and to instead help him make it better! Some things that come to mind:
1. He should stay as long as he can afford to! So much of life just fucking sucks, honestly think about how much of life is just absolute drudgery. If a person has the luxury to do the expat thing for awhile, that is amazing for them. It can be really beneficial in the short-term and the long-term.
2. If he can stay for longer than a month, he should learn Spanish if he doesn't know it. It's good to know another language! (It also makes you safer in the places where that language is spoken.) Reddit will be full of advice for the best Spanish schools in any city.
3. Another benefit of attaching to an organization like a school is that you make friends. Having friends makes you more safe, because you benefit from being in a group and having expertise from people who've been somewhere longer. Long term travel is an opportunity to make really edifying, sometimes lifelong relationships with travelers and locals. Take it from someone who's done it! I just spent an hour on Zoom with my old Spanish teacher the other night, and will be visiting a good friend I made 15 years ago in Central America this summer.
If you have the time and can afford to, you could also consider visiting him. It might ease your mind and be a good family trip.
posted by kensington314 at 2:09 PM on February 5 [4 favorites]
I thought of one more thing I'd do if I was a parent: I'd offer to cover the difference between safer and less-safe travel options for in-country travel. Like if he ever thinks, "it would be safer to be in a minivan than the back of a pick-up truck" or "this type of bus travel has better maintained vehicles than that type of bus travel," I would want to make that decision a no-brainer for him. Probably the cost of this subsidy would be in the low hundreds of dollars at most.
posted by kensington314 at 2:37 PM on February 5 [6 favorites]
posted by kensington314 at 2:37 PM on February 5 [6 favorites]
Looking at the State Department advisory, it seems like much of the risk driving the Level 3 is associated with political (or political appearing) activity. Can you share that with your partner, and have a good talk with your son about staying safe in that regard? He should certainly be very cautious participating in rallies, talking politics etc, but beyond that the daily risks may indeed not be worse than, as he says, many parts of the US.
posted by tinymojo at 3:01 PM on February 5 [1 favorite]
posted by tinymojo at 3:01 PM on February 5 [1 favorite]
Gently, I think something that may help everyone in the house feel a little better is leaving behind the idea that he is “underemployed”, especially if you don't know the ins and out of his field.
Think about the economic lives of most Americans under 30. A lot of folks this age have had the experience of participating in a very good K-12 education system, attended a good university, worked while in school, and perhaps pursued a highly specialized and very expensive advanced degree — this is the most well-educated generation ever — but even after doing all that, find that they have graduated into a lower-wage job market than should really be allowed to exist, and which will not pay wages that allow them to start their lives independently living on their own. I can’t tell from your question if your son lives with you, but his status as “kind of broke” makes me think he does.
It is not your son’s fault that employers who would, in a perfect meritocracy, value him more than he earns now are either not hiring in his field, or near where you live, or at wages that would make him not “kind of broke” — which I think we could say is equivalent to “I can live away from home and pay my own rent and bills” — nor is it his responsibility to exist in the economy the same way or with the same financial goals as someone who earns the same as him but doesn’t do whatever kind of work he does that allows him to work from Nicaragua, a much cheaper place to live.
Ask yourself: to whom is the disconnect between his “potential” and “actual” earnings most relevant? In Nicaragua he can probably save quite a bit of money, have a “free” vacation of sorts whenever he closes his laptop, and leave behind for a while the huge weight of not meeting whatever society’s expectations are for someone with whatever combination of skills and knowledge he has that leads you to describe him as underemployed. This is especially true if his field and local area are low-wage and high-cost, respectively; depending on his circumstances and prospects, in an area in which his life will only “improve” by working seventy-hour weeks while living at home for years after graduation to save up for the outrageous security deposit required to rent a studio in a suburb an hour from you and an hour from an job he has to commute to by car where he works as hard as he does now but has mediocre corporate health care, less free time and crushing student loan debt to service so he can never save enough to retire, why on Earth wouldn’t he want to try something else?
Underemployment is a failure not of the employed person, but of the economy not caring to hire you at your imagined or promised “worth” because in your area or field, having a great education and a lot of work experience simply isn’t enough to let you live on your own. For whatever reason, your local economy isn't giving your son the opportunities he needs or promising a life with enough of whatever he wants in addition to a paycheck, and the problem is profound enough that it’s making him annoyed enough to move elsewhere for a while, a tale as old as time in countries that historically lost their young to emigration, like Ireland or Italy; the US is increasingly finding itself losing its young people to greener pastures overseas. And purely practically, it is really positive that his employer is either fine with this or need not know about it, and whatever his field is, moving to anywhere new temporarily and meeting other digital nomads is an excellent opportunity to network casually with similarly brave and ambitious people in ways your city may simply not offer, especially if he normally works from home.
Finally, consider Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, someone a little older than your son who for years has had to prove her credentials in ways her older fellow Congresspeople never have. Was she an underemployed failure working as a bartender with a degree in 2017? She certainly didn’t think so, but in any case it didn’t matter — she wasn’t able to make ends meet with her degree alone in her city, and found enough purpose and energy that she ran for Congress against a powerful incumbent in a primary everyone thought she would lose and won, at 29. Her net worth was infinitesimally smaller than her peers in the House; as a New Yorker she was living in one of our most expensive cities and earning a working-class wage, living with her also-employed partner in a small apartment. But she has made her life meaningful in ways that her W-2s will never capture.
Your value in society is not what you earn, it’s what you do and who you are. Help your son see his value and purpose beyond his paycheck by supporting him in this adventure and remind him you love him no matter where he works. This trip to Nicaragua is a release valve from the pressure rising all around him to put his nose to the grindstone, and it is a hugely positive thing that he sees his life as valuable enough to pull it. Good luck. He’s going to be fine.
posted by mdonley at 3:22 PM on February 5 [13 favorites]
Think about the economic lives of most Americans under 30. A lot of folks this age have had the experience of participating in a very good K-12 education system, attended a good university, worked while in school, and perhaps pursued a highly specialized and very expensive advanced degree — this is the most well-educated generation ever — but even after doing all that, find that they have graduated into a lower-wage job market than should really be allowed to exist, and which will not pay wages that allow them to start their lives independently living on their own. I can’t tell from your question if your son lives with you, but his status as “kind of broke” makes me think he does.
It is not your son’s fault that employers who would, in a perfect meritocracy, value him more than he earns now are either not hiring in his field, or near where you live, or at wages that would make him not “kind of broke” — which I think we could say is equivalent to “I can live away from home and pay my own rent and bills” — nor is it his responsibility to exist in the economy the same way or with the same financial goals as someone who earns the same as him but doesn’t do whatever kind of work he does that allows him to work from Nicaragua, a much cheaper place to live.
Ask yourself: to whom is the disconnect between his “potential” and “actual” earnings most relevant? In Nicaragua he can probably save quite a bit of money, have a “free” vacation of sorts whenever he closes his laptop, and leave behind for a while the huge weight of not meeting whatever society’s expectations are for someone with whatever combination of skills and knowledge he has that leads you to describe him as underemployed. This is especially true if his field and local area are low-wage and high-cost, respectively; depending on his circumstances and prospects, in an area in which his life will only “improve” by working seventy-hour weeks while living at home for years after graduation to save up for the outrageous security deposit required to rent a studio in a suburb an hour from you and an hour from an job he has to commute to by car where he works as hard as he does now but has mediocre corporate health care, less free time and crushing student loan debt to service so he can never save enough to retire, why on Earth wouldn’t he want to try something else?
Underemployment is a failure not of the employed person, but of the economy not caring to hire you at your imagined or promised “worth” because in your area or field, having a great education and a lot of work experience simply isn’t enough to let you live on your own. For whatever reason, your local economy isn't giving your son the opportunities he needs or promising a life with enough of whatever he wants in addition to a paycheck, and the problem is profound enough that it’s making him annoyed enough to move elsewhere for a while, a tale as old as time in countries that historically lost their young to emigration, like Ireland or Italy; the US is increasingly finding itself losing its young people to greener pastures overseas. And purely practically, it is really positive that his employer is either fine with this or need not know about it, and whatever his field is, moving to anywhere new temporarily and meeting other digital nomads is an excellent opportunity to network casually with similarly brave and ambitious people in ways your city may simply not offer, especially if he normally works from home.
Finally, consider Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, someone a little older than your son who for years has had to prove her credentials in ways her older fellow Congresspeople never have. Was she an underemployed failure working as a bartender with a degree in 2017? She certainly didn’t think so, but in any case it didn’t matter — she wasn’t able to make ends meet with her degree alone in her city, and found enough purpose and energy that she ran for Congress against a powerful incumbent in a primary everyone thought she would lose and won, at 29. Her net worth was infinitesimally smaller than her peers in the House; as a New Yorker she was living in one of our most expensive cities and earning a working-class wage, living with her also-employed partner in a small apartment. But she has made her life meaningful in ways that her W-2s will never capture.
Your value in society is not what you earn, it’s what you do and who you are. Help your son see his value and purpose beyond his paycheck by supporting him in this adventure and remind him you love him no matter where he works. This trip to Nicaragua is a release valve from the pressure rising all around him to put his nose to the grindstone, and it is a hugely positive thing that he sees his life as valuable enough to pull it. Good luck. He’s going to be fine.
posted by mdonley at 3:22 PM on February 5 [13 favorites]
when I was a kid my parents moved the family to a W. African nation, where we lived for 3.5 years (would've stayed longer but for the political unrest that worsened over a year plus).
There were very loud voices from their families that it was irresponsible to take a young family to Africa. We experienced all kinds of things that, in hindsight, were pretty intense and we could have been less lucky and people could have died.
but life is intense. people die. your son might never come back, I think people need to know that when a loved one drives to Costco even. You never fucking know how shit will go down. I didn't read all the other replies, so maybe you've got this type of response a bunch of times, I just hope you can feel okay with your son's choices and if other people can't be okay with your son's choices that's on them. When I look back at my relationship with my parents, I really wish I'd tried harder to see them as people with history and talk to them like that, instead of as son/parent all the time. If they weren't your son, who are they? Who else are they? Maybe Nicaragua is a great idea.
posted by elkevelvet at 3:28 PM on February 5 [7 favorites]
There were very loud voices from their families that it was irresponsible to take a young family to Africa. We experienced all kinds of things that, in hindsight, were pretty intense and we could have been less lucky and people could have died.
but life is intense. people die. your son might never come back, I think people need to know that when a loved one drives to Costco even. You never fucking know how shit will go down. I didn't read all the other replies, so maybe you've got this type of response a bunch of times, I just hope you can feel okay with your son's choices and if other people can't be okay with your son's choices that's on them. When I look back at my relationship with my parents, I really wish I'd tried harder to see them as people with history and talk to them like that, instead of as son/parent all the time. If they weren't your son, who are they? Who else are they? Maybe Nicaragua is a great idea.
posted by elkevelvet at 3:28 PM on February 5 [7 favorites]
Ideally, your son would agree to some kind of contact plan and backups - say he calls you every other day or sends you a message every morning. You on the other hand have the address of his lodging, the number for the local emergency services, and ideally the number of the lodging owner or other staff.
How much contact do you have now? Pushing for more contact than you have now would not work for many people. For context I travel alone regularly, nobody has local contact details. My normal mobile number and messaging apps work just fine everywhere I‘ve ever been. Unless you are somewhere very remote people use mobile phones widely and have the infrastructure to make that work.
Unless you speak the local language having all these local contact details are going to do nothing to help him and will just serve to make you more frantic if you can’t get a hold of him for a bit. You won’t get the reassurance you seek if you can’t communicate with the person the other end.
Make sure he has resources to help himself if his plans have to change. Things like a credit card with big enough limit so he can change accommodation or book a flight if he needs to. Make sure he has more than one card in case one gets lost or blocked or stolen.
Make sure he has copies of his passport and travel insurance details etc. Offer to keep scans for him that you can email to him if he needs them. Consular services are great but getting new travel documents is easier if you have copies.
Basically, set him up for success and with practical fallbacks. That will do more good than having 5 phone numbers of people you can’t communicate with easily.
posted by koahiatamadl at 3:49 PM on February 5
How much contact do you have now? Pushing for more contact than you have now would not work for many people. For context I travel alone regularly, nobody has local contact details. My normal mobile number and messaging apps work just fine everywhere I‘ve ever been. Unless you are somewhere very remote people use mobile phones widely and have the infrastructure to make that work.
Unless you speak the local language having all these local contact details are going to do nothing to help him and will just serve to make you more frantic if you can’t get a hold of him for a bit. You won’t get the reassurance you seek if you can’t communicate with the person the other end.
Make sure he has resources to help himself if his plans have to change. Things like a credit card with big enough limit so he can change accommodation or book a flight if he needs to. Make sure he has more than one card in case one gets lost or blocked or stolen.
Make sure he has copies of his passport and travel insurance details etc. Offer to keep scans for him that you can email to him if he needs them. Consular services are great but getting new travel documents is easier if you have copies.
Basically, set him up for success and with practical fallbacks. That will do more good than having 5 phone numbers of people you can’t communicate with easily.
posted by koahiatamadl at 3:49 PM on February 5
If your son were writing this question, I would recommend to him that he put you and your spouse on a strict information diet re: travel. I would tell him to share his itinerary and any local contact info with a sibling or close friend, and then to literally never mention his travels to you at all, except maybe after he's back home. Assuming he'll get a local SIM card, I'd tell him to just respond to your texts as though nothing unusual is happening.
Obviously your son isn't the one asking this question, but I tell you this because it might be useful for you to reframe your thinking around this. What a blessing that you have a good enough relationship with your son that he tells you about his plans! How much more fun would it be to look up cool things to do in Nicaragua and send them to him? Get the Lonely Planet from the library! Poke around on Reddit! And hey, if you happened to throw some safety tips in with your restaurant recommendations, so be it!
There's an exception here, I think, if your son has a history of notable, unusual recklessness. Does he drive drunk, try recreational drugs he got for free from strangers, get tattoos from unlicensed high school kids? Then sure, try to talk him into somewhere he can't possibly get in trouble. But if he's a regular 27-year-old who knows how to act, try to be excited for him as he embarks on this adventure.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 4:02 PM on February 5 [5 favorites]
Obviously your son isn't the one asking this question, but I tell you this because it might be useful for you to reframe your thinking around this. What a blessing that you have a good enough relationship with your son that he tells you about his plans! How much more fun would it be to look up cool things to do in Nicaragua and send them to him? Get the Lonely Planet from the library! Poke around on Reddit! And hey, if you happened to throw some safety tips in with your restaurant recommendations, so be it!
There's an exception here, I think, if your son has a history of notable, unusual recklessness. Does he drive drunk, try recreational drugs he got for free from strangers, get tattoos from unlicensed high school kids? Then sure, try to talk him into somewhere he can't possibly get in trouble. But if he's a regular 27-year-old who knows how to act, try to be excited for him as he embarks on this adventure.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 4:02 PM on February 5 [5 favorites]
It is time to tell your partner that you're just going to have to let go and trust your parenting. The odds are really high that he'll have a fantastic, rewarding and enriching experience. Let him have that.
You got him this far and you have to trust that you raised him to reasonably assess risks from here.
How do I deal with a depressed, catastrophizing, anxious person who is not entirely irrational? How do we let go and let my son make terrible choices?
You say "Look, I understand that you're scared but we have to let go and respect his choices. He's 27." You check in with him about standard best practices that might not be on his radar (like letting the US Embassy know that he's there, making sure you have a recent photo and a copy of his passport, and the rest of the state department checklist) and then you let go. When your partner starts catastrophizing you say "This is just going to stress me out. I understand that you don't like this, but he's an adult. We can't control his choices." Validate her feelings, sure.
Don't put yourself in the middle. Just don't. Tell your partner that you understand her feelings but you're not willing to fight your kid on this. Tell your partner that no, you're not going to call and talk him out of it. You've shared your concerns with him and you have to let go.
If she's getting into a spiral you just say "look, we've discussed this. Stirring ourselves into a panic won't do any good. I need you to let this go. I hear you, I understand that you really want to talk him out of this trip. We shared our concerns with him and we have to leave it at that."
posted by amandabee at 4:07 PM on February 5 [1 favorite]
You got him this far and you have to trust that you raised him to reasonably assess risks from here.
How do I deal with a depressed, catastrophizing, anxious person who is not entirely irrational? How do we let go and let my son make terrible choices?
You say "Look, I understand that you're scared but we have to let go and respect his choices. He's 27." You check in with him about standard best practices that might not be on his radar (like letting the US Embassy know that he's there, making sure you have a recent photo and a copy of his passport, and the rest of the state department checklist) and then you let go. When your partner starts catastrophizing you say "This is just going to stress me out. I understand that you don't like this, but he's an adult. We can't control his choices." Validate her feelings, sure.
Don't put yourself in the middle. Just don't. Tell your partner that you understand her feelings but you're not willing to fight your kid on this. Tell your partner that no, you're not going to call and talk him out of it. You've shared your concerns with him and you have to let go.
If she's getting into a spiral you just say "look, we've discussed this. Stirring ourselves into a panic won't do any good. I need you to let this go. I hear you, I understand that you really want to talk him out of this trip. We shared our concerns with him and we have to leave it at that."
posted by amandabee at 4:07 PM on February 5 [1 favorite]
Your son is an adult. He gets to make his own choices, terrible or not. You are only in the middle if you keep trying to manage your son's life and your partner's emotions. Stop second guessing your son's decisions. Likely the more you object, the more determined he'll become. The parents we share more with as adults are the ones who support us.
(I moved my young children to a country many family members thought was dangerous. Guess what? We did not die in a terrorist attack, as predicted. We moved back to our home country a few years later. I think they probably regret not visiting us there.)
What an exciting time for your son! I'll be perhaps a bit too blunt: has it occurred to you maybe he's seeking this adventure to get away from his overbearing parents?
posted by bluedaisy at 4:08 PM on February 5 [1 favorite]
(I moved my young children to a country many family members thought was dangerous. Guess what? We did not die in a terrorist attack, as predicted. We moved back to our home country a few years later. I think they probably regret not visiting us there.)
What an exciting time for your son! I'll be perhaps a bit too blunt: has it occurred to you maybe he's seeking this adventure to get away from his overbearing parents?
posted by bluedaisy at 4:08 PM on February 5 [1 favorite]
For what it's worth, I visited Brazil alone when I was 28. I did not ask my parents' permission. Brazilians in São Paulo had lurid warnings about Rio. Nothing happened.
The best thing you can do for him is make sure he has emergency support. More than one credit card, copies of his passport and ticket, an assurance of emergency money. Maybe a money belt?
What's his plan for securing valuables in that bungalow? If it's "leave his passport and money in a bag on the bed while he goes out exploring", he shouldn't do that. (A friend of mine got his passport stolen in a youth hostel, in the mega-dangerous city of London.)
posted by zompist at 4:13 PM on February 5
The best thing you can do for him is make sure he has emergency support. More than one credit card, copies of his passport and ticket, an assurance of emergency money. Maybe a money belt?
What's his plan for securing valuables in that bungalow? If it's "leave his passport and money in a bag on the bed while he goes out exploring", he shouldn't do that. (A friend of mine got his passport stolen in a youth hostel, in the mega-dangerous city of London.)
posted by zompist at 4:13 PM on February 5
Thirteen years ago, I planned a year-long solo backpacking trip for myself. I was about the same age as your son, and I am a woman. My plan: buy a one-way ticket to Bogota, Colombia, and figure out the rest from there. Keep in mind Colombia is listed at the bottom of that Safest Countries list you linked. And that was not the only "not safe" country on my itinerary, by the way!
It was a great trip! Nothing bad happened to me. I met my now-life-partner on that trip, and we ended up living overseas for a few more years before returning to North America. We were just in Colombia a few months ago as some of my partner's family is from there. Again, nothing bad happened.
My parents were concerned, and I got a lot of "Are you sure..?" questions, especially considering Colombia's history and reputation. Honestly, I was super bummed about how they approached everything. Whatever goodbyewaffles wrote is accurate.
Here's what I wish they did. With a caveat that I am not a parent myself so if some of this sounds insensitive or callous, maybe that's why!
How to determine what is safe / persuade you & your partner it is safe?
Therapy and/or medication.
How to let go and let your son make a terrible decision?
What if you started with the assumption that the decision is made, it's gonna happen regardless? I feel like your partner wants the illusion of control that you can "let" your son go (or not). An anxious brain just likes to find things it can be anxious about, and this seems perfect. If she thinks she can change his mind, then all this worrying is valid. But if it's a done deal... put that energy towards something else.
Also, watch your words. Why is it a terrible decision? Take the judgment out of it. Even if your partner is using those words, you don't have to!
posted by tinydancer at 4:22 PM on February 5 [17 favorites]
It was a great trip! Nothing bad happened to me. I met my now-life-partner on that trip, and we ended up living overseas for a few more years before returning to North America. We were just in Colombia a few months ago as some of my partner's family is from there. Again, nothing bad happened.
My parents were concerned, and I got a lot of "Are you sure..?" questions, especially considering Colombia's history and reputation. Honestly, I was super bummed about how they approached everything. Whatever goodbyewaffles wrote is accurate.
Here's what I wish they did. With a caveat that I am not a parent myself so if some of this sounds insensitive or callous, maybe that's why!
- Show some enthusiasm. Even if only 1% of you is excited, and you are 99% worried, show your son that 1%. Or at least lead with that and not the 100 diff ways he could be kidnapped or die.
- Be curious. Nicaragua - that is so cool! What his inspiration for this? Maybe he can share with you media that shows what is enticing to him about Nicaragua. Make sure you are asking questions from a place of curiosity, not judgment/interrogation.
- Find a way to keep in touch that feels like a natural extension of the trip. In my case, I updated a blog every few days. Nowadays, maybe it'll be Instagram Stories or TikToks. The important thing is he's not showing "proof of life" back to you out of duty and obligation. He is sharing the excitement of his new experiences.
- Do not make him responsible for managing your emotions. Basic things like emergency contact info, the embassy's address and phone #, etc. are all good. But don't make him "make you" feel safe, because it may not be possible to do so. You and your partner process that anxiety w/ each other, or with a therapist, etc.
How to determine what is safe / persuade you & your partner it is safe?
- Ask him which areas he's keen to explore, and why.
- Look for hyper-local media to get to know the place. A country, even a city, is too big of an area to determine what's safe. Think neighbourhoods.
- Stop looking at the government warnings! Seriously, they are worse than useless, because they just make you fearful and then there's nothing you can do about it. But now there's that maggot in your brain about all the bad stuff that can happen. As someone who grew up in and lived in many countries with those types warnings, I find them very racist and insulting TBH. Stay away from US media, too!
Therapy and/or medication.
How to let go and let your son make a terrible decision?
What if you started with the assumption that the decision is made, it's gonna happen regardless? I feel like your partner wants the illusion of control that you can "let" your son go (or not). An anxious brain just likes to find things it can be anxious about, and this seems perfect. If she thinks she can change his mind, then all this worrying is valid. But if it's a done deal... put that energy towards something else.
Also, watch your words. Why is it a terrible decision? Take the judgment out of it. Even if your partner is using those words, you don't have to!
posted by tinydancer at 4:22 PM on February 5 [17 favorites]
- Is your passport ready to go? Do you know what consular services are/are not available?
- do you have plans for cell service/wifi? Backup plans?
- How will I know you're okay? If I don't hear from you in X days, I will do X thing. Do you have contact info you can share with me?
- Have you thought about how to avoid trouble there? Are you familiar with local drug and alcohol laws?
- What will you do if you get in trouble?
- Kid, I trust you to get help if you need it. I love you. I have your back.
Do all these things and, if any response worries you, help him to get a plan in place or to learn what he needs to know to be safe. Then step away. He's 27 and trying to control him is wrong in many ways, but do make sure he knows you're there if he needs help and aren't going to go down the 'told you so' route.
I agree with the comments about government travel advisories. They definitely should be considered, but there are lots of reasons government agencies warn against travel to a country, including because there's no diplomatic representation there to help people who get into trouble. Not being stupid is important in any country and a huge part of that is remembering where you are and that where you are may not be as free and easy for a white person (if that applies) as home.
posted by dg at 5:50 PM on February 5
- do you have plans for cell service/wifi? Backup plans?
- How will I know you're okay? If I don't hear from you in X days, I will do X thing. Do you have contact info you can share with me?
- Have you thought about how to avoid trouble there? Are you familiar with local drug and alcohol laws?
- What will you do if you get in trouble?
- Kid, I trust you to get help if you need it. I love you. I have your back.
Do all these things and, if any response worries you, help him to get a plan in place or to learn what he needs to know to be safe. Then step away. He's 27 and trying to control him is wrong in many ways, but do make sure he knows you're there if he needs help and aren't going to go down the 'told you so' route.
I agree with the comments about government travel advisories. They definitely should be considered, but there are lots of reasons government agencies warn against travel to a country, including because there's no diplomatic representation there to help people who get into trouble. Not being stupid is important in any country and a huge part of that is remembering where you are and that where you are may not be as free and easy for a white person (if that applies) as home.
posted by dg at 5:50 PM on February 5
Im an American who has spent a fair amount of time in Nicaragua, as have many friends of mine, and all of us are very much alive and un-kidnapped.
The crime rate of places I go to there are far lower than many American cities, including places I have personally lived in California. As with most places, as long as he is not stumbling home drunk at 2am waving his iPhone around he will likely be fine.
Managua is not super safe or pretty, so I personally tend to hang out in Grenada, Ometepe, or San Juan del Sur.
I encourage you to work through your issues in therapy. Your son is not making a terrible choice, he's just making a choice. Some members of my family have the same opinions as you do about travelling in Central America and frankly it's always struck me as uninformed at best and kind of racist at worst. There are millions of people living in these countries and most of them are a lot nicer and more helpful than Americans.
posted by ananci at 6:21 PM on February 5 [10 favorites]
The crime rate of places I go to there are far lower than many American cities, including places I have personally lived in California. As with most places, as long as he is not stumbling home drunk at 2am waving his iPhone around he will likely be fine.
Managua is not super safe or pretty, so I personally tend to hang out in Grenada, Ometepe, or San Juan del Sur.
I encourage you to work through your issues in therapy. Your son is not making a terrible choice, he's just making a choice. Some members of my family have the same opinions as you do about travelling in Central America and frankly it's always struck me as uninformed at best and kind of racist at worst. There are millions of people living in these countries and most of them are a lot nicer and more helpful than Americans.
posted by ananci at 6:21 PM on February 5 [10 favorites]
Well, for one, you are linking to a list of South American countries. The comparable list of Central American countries ranks Nicaragua as the third safest country. I took a look at all the countries designated Level 3 by the State Department right now, and many of them are countries where my friends and colleagues regularly travel. Consider looking at that list, it may help put things in perspective if you also have friends and colleagues who travel to non-Western countries for work and/or leisure.
Reading the actual State Department warning for Nicaragua, it is heavily weighed towards political issues and human rights abuses happening in the country. As long as your son isn't a journalist, does not get involved in local politics, doesn't go to protests, and doesn't criticize Ortega, there is minimal risk that these matters would affect him. Nicaragua wants tourists and the income that comes with tourists; tourist areas are likely to be pretty safe from things like kidnapping (petty theft is another matter). And if you manage your own anxiety, he may be more open to listening to practical advice that is good to impart, like, only use official taxis, have a copy of the passport, get a Hep A booster if he needs one, etc.
Just as an anecdata point, when I was in my early twenties, I went to Guatemala in the summer of 2001. It is still much less safe than Nicaragua today, and back then it was only five years out of a decades-long civil war, and even less safe than now. I backpacked and traveled around by local "chicken buses" and at one point got my passport and wallet stolen (non-violently -- someone just cut my bag on the bus and took these things out without me noticing). My parents had to fax the embassy a copy of my passport. I had to change my travel plans within the country and go back to Guatemala City to get a new passport, which I did with no problems. In short, I was a young woman in a much less safe country, before cell phones, traveling in rural areas, *and* I was the victim of the kind of crime that adds up to statistics that inform travel warnings, and nothing really bad happened. I am saying this because it's easy to catastrophize, and it may be helpful to have concrete narratives about specific people that push back against the catastrophizing imagination.
posted by virve at 7:16 PM on February 5 [2 favorites]
Reading the actual State Department warning for Nicaragua, it is heavily weighed towards political issues and human rights abuses happening in the country. As long as your son isn't a journalist, does not get involved in local politics, doesn't go to protests, and doesn't criticize Ortega, there is minimal risk that these matters would affect him. Nicaragua wants tourists and the income that comes with tourists; tourist areas are likely to be pretty safe from things like kidnapping (petty theft is another matter). And if you manage your own anxiety, he may be more open to listening to practical advice that is good to impart, like, only use official taxis, have a copy of the passport, get a Hep A booster if he needs one, etc.
Just as an anecdata point, when I was in my early twenties, I went to Guatemala in the summer of 2001. It is still much less safe than Nicaragua today, and back then it was only five years out of a decades-long civil war, and even less safe than now. I backpacked and traveled around by local "chicken buses" and at one point got my passport and wallet stolen (non-violently -- someone just cut my bag on the bus and took these things out without me noticing). My parents had to fax the embassy a copy of my passport. I had to change my travel plans within the country and go back to Guatemala City to get a new passport, which I did with no problems. In short, I was a young woman in a much less safe country, before cell phones, traveling in rural areas, *and* I was the victim of the kind of crime that adds up to statistics that inform travel warnings, and nothing really bad happened. I am saying this because it's easy to catastrophize, and it may be helpful to have concrete narratives about specific people that push back against the catastrophizing imagination.
posted by virve at 7:16 PM on February 5 [2 favorites]
How do we let go and let my son make terrible choices? Your son is very much an adult and there’s nothing to let your son do. Terrible is relative here, it might be terrible for you but not for him. Encourage him be an independent adult. Traveling alone to a foreign country is a great start.
I would suggest setting boundaries and expectations—can he text you atleast every 3 days or call once a week for example? I trained my parents from an early age to expect a call once every 3 weeks and an email once a week when I was traveling abroad. Although this was before smart phones and easy internet access so expectations for constant connection were different.
What other questions should I be asking? How to develop and show your trust in your son and interest in his life so he wants to share it with you.
posted by Bunglegirl at 7:26 PM on February 5 [2 favorites]
I would suggest setting boundaries and expectations—can he text you atleast every 3 days or call once a week for example? I trained my parents from an early age to expect a call once every 3 weeks and an email once a week when I was traveling abroad. Although this was before smart phones and easy internet access so expectations for constant connection were different.
What other questions should I be asking? How to develop and show your trust in your son and interest in his life so he wants to share it with you.
posted by Bunglegirl at 7:26 PM on February 5 [2 favorites]
At 27, I was living with my then-husband in Bogota, which at the time was dealing with a lot of political instability and kidnappings. My third week in country, there was a terrorist attack on a popular expat bar in my neighborhood.
Oh, and I was "underemployed." (I had a part time job, but otherwise I kept house, took Spanish lessons and explored the city.)
Clearly, it wasn't a life free of risk. But I knew the safety rules, I made an effort to blend in, and the expat experience built confidence that has stuck with me for decades. Even though the marriage itself didn't stick.
My dad was pretty iffy on the whole thing, because of all the kidnappings and terrorism, but he packed a bag and came to visit.
He loved Bogota. He thought it was a sophisticated and wonderful place to be young.
In other words, give your kid some credit.
Don't regard this as "letting your kid make a mistake" but "seeing your adult off on an adventure."
And you can't control your spouse's mental health, or make them seek help. All you can do is radically accept that Spouse is gonna Spouse, and decide how it will affect you and your son.
posted by champers at 1:56 AM on February 6
Oh, and I was "underemployed." (I had a part time job, but otherwise I kept house, took Spanish lessons and explored the city.)
Clearly, it wasn't a life free of risk. But I knew the safety rules, I made an effort to blend in, and the expat experience built confidence that has stuck with me for decades. Even though the marriage itself didn't stick.
My dad was pretty iffy on the whole thing, because of all the kidnappings and terrorism, but he packed a bag and came to visit.
He loved Bogota. He thought it was a sophisticated and wonderful place to be young.
In other words, give your kid some credit.
Don't regard this as "letting your kid make a mistake" but "seeing your adult off on an adventure."
And you can't control your spouse's mental health, or make them seek help. All you can do is radically accept that Spouse is gonna Spouse, and decide how it will affect you and your son.
posted by champers at 1:56 AM on February 6
If you and your spouse feel better when helping, and if you have the financial means to do so, you could offer to pay for travel insurance. You could look for insurance with evacuation coverage and/or kidnap & ransom coverage if you’re worried about those possibilities. This might be a concrete action you could take in support of your son’s plans that helps to give him an actual safety net.
If helping doesn’t help you feel better, or if your son doesn’t want/need your help, you (and your spouse) can try exploring compassionate detachment. Note that you can’t actually make either your son or your spouse do or feel anything — their actions and feelings are up to them. You can’t control your feelings by controlling them (and neither can your spouse). This is hard, I know, but worth the practice.
posted by ourobouros at 3:59 AM on February 6 [2 favorites]
If helping doesn’t help you feel better, or if your son doesn’t want/need your help, you (and your spouse) can try exploring compassionate detachment. Note that you can’t actually make either your son or your spouse do or feel anything — their actions and feelings are up to them. You can’t control your feelings by controlling them (and neither can your spouse). This is hard, I know, but worth the practice.
posted by ourobouros at 3:59 AM on February 6 [2 favorites]
As a first step, since he plans on "working remotely", he needs to check out the wifi /internet situation. EVERY accommodation/coffee house/cafe/worker space will claim that they have reliable! hi-speed! connections but in truth it is far from guaranteed. Expat forums might provide a better answer. Lugging your laptop to a noisy internet cafe in the middle of the night in the pouring rain is never fun.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:44 AM on February 6
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:44 AM on February 6
I just want to add to the chorus of "this is fine." I'm a fairly anxious traveler when I'm outside my country, but I have spent lots of time in Central and South America and would not hesitate to go to Nicaragua. Your kid is not making a terrible choice unless his intention is to get drunk and pick up girls every night (an easy way to get targeted for property crime anywhere). You and your spouse can worry, but it IS irrational in my opinion. He is not traveling to the Gaza Strip.
posted by branca at 5:49 AM on February 6 [2 favorites]
posted by branca at 5:49 AM on February 6 [2 favorites]
For what its worth, a friend of mine and his girlfriend (white, Dutch) just went off traveling to South America and Mexico for fun, for vacation for a couple months. They went to Nicaragua and made it a point to go into the jungles too. I just heard from him today as they are at their last stop in Baja California and I'll be sure to ask him how it all went. Fine, I'm sure.
Most countries around the world are filled with good, honest people just trying to live their lives. That doesn't mean horrid things dont happen but they are usually off the scale even for that area. Thats why they make news. My mom just got back from visiting family in Michoacan. The US State Dept lists the state as "Do Not Travel" due to crime and kidnappings. She goes twice a year.
When I was in my 20's I just went off to Asia on my own. Didn't even let my parents know. There were no cell phones back then either. I was kind of careless and transited through Thailand once without the right visa so I was detained for a while in some government offices. Met up with friends in Vietnam and Laos somehow (just places and dates set up beforehand, if someone didnt show up there'd be no way to figure out where they were) and the biggest concern was a leg infection I picked up that had to be treated with antibiotics. I don't think of myself as particularly adventurous but it all seemed pretty normal for my age group then.
posted by vacapinta at 6:12 AM on February 6 [2 favorites]
Most countries around the world are filled with good, honest people just trying to live their lives. That doesn't mean horrid things dont happen but they are usually off the scale even for that area. Thats why they make news. My mom just got back from visiting family in Michoacan. The US State Dept lists the state as "Do Not Travel" due to crime and kidnappings. She goes twice a year.
When I was in my 20's I just went off to Asia on my own. Didn't even let my parents know. There were no cell phones back then either. I was kind of careless and transited through Thailand once without the right visa so I was detained for a while in some government offices. Met up with friends in Vietnam and Laos somehow (just places and dates set up beforehand, if someone didnt show up there'd be no way to figure out where they were) and the biggest concern was a leg infection I picked up that had to be treated with antibiotics. I don't think of myself as particularly adventurous but it all seemed pretty normal for my age group then.
posted by vacapinta at 6:12 AM on February 6 [2 favorites]
Imagining myself at 27, if my parents were wigging out about me doing the very normal thing of spending a few months in a different country which is not actively at war, it would distance me from them and reduce how much I talked to them.
I think you should prioritize your relationship with your kid and not make it their job to put up with your anxieties.
1. Tell them you hope it will be a incredible experience for them. Ask questions about their plans for what they'll do there out of honest curiosity/ to learn about the things they're interested in, not to pick apart their plans. If your partner can't do this without being a pain in the butt, do it without them.
2. Send them a link about basic safety information for international travel (passport safety etc.) and for where they're going specifically. Do not say anything else about it. Unless your kid has disabilities which require greater than average support needs, assume that they will use common sense.
3. I disagree with others' suggestions that they be told to check in with you regularly. You can let them know you'd love to hear from them, but I would have found it infantilizing at that age to be "required" to notify my parents about my movements. I had friends whom I used for safety check-ins instead. You can offer but take a no graciously.
4. I have a partner who catastrophizes. There are some ways of supporting them which drag me down (listening to them ruminate about it for example) and others which are kind of boring but not harmful to me (holding them when they're sad or upset, doing distracting things together, etc.). Set boundaries for that, such as "I do not want to discuss this topic anymore, but we can do X instead." Repeat the boundary every time they try to cross it.
posted by metasarah at 9:00 AM on February 6 [5 favorites]
I think you should prioritize your relationship with your kid and not make it their job to put up with your anxieties.
1. Tell them you hope it will be a incredible experience for them. Ask questions about their plans for what they'll do there out of honest curiosity/ to learn about the things they're interested in, not to pick apart their plans. If your partner can't do this without being a pain in the butt, do it without them.
2. Send them a link about basic safety information for international travel (passport safety etc.) and for where they're going specifically. Do not say anything else about it. Unless your kid has disabilities which require greater than average support needs, assume that they will use common sense.
3. I disagree with others' suggestions that they be told to check in with you regularly. You can let them know you'd love to hear from them, but I would have found it infantilizing at that age to be "required" to notify my parents about my movements. I had friends whom I used for safety check-ins instead. You can offer but take a no graciously.
4. I have a partner who catastrophizes. There are some ways of supporting them which drag me down (listening to them ruminate about it for example) and others which are kind of boring but not harmful to me (holding them when they're sad or upset, doing distracting things together, etc.). Set boundaries for that, such as "I do not want to discuss this topic anymore, but we can do X instead." Repeat the boundary every time they try to cross it.
posted by metasarah at 9:00 AM on February 6 [5 favorites]
It's only a month. And he's 27. But if only to ease your worry:
posted by pracowity at 10:42 AM on February 6
- Make sure you agree on some sort of guilt-free escape plan: where to go for legal/consular/medical help, where to get instant travel/escape money, etc., because you just want him to be safe and come home happy and healthy.
- See if you can get him to agree to a regular check-in routine, like at least one selfie a day sent to you or posted online somewhere, something that would take him 30 seconds and make the two of you back home feel much better.
posted by pracowity at 10:42 AM on February 6
This sounds like a perfect occasion for one or two sessions with a counselor. Probably doesn't even need to be a licensed therapist (though your spouse should get one for the ongoing anxiety/depression, which really are medical emergencies).
If you two can access a couple of sessions to discuss your fears and the true risk, your spouse especially might benefit enormously. Also, there's an added benefit of adjusting your involvement in spouse's mental health to healthier levels - you should help find the therapist, but you shouldn't have to be one.
Meanwhile, food for thought: all the people in the world, the heroes who are staying in war zones to provide aid - they're at so much more risk. Firefighters, police officers, racecar drivers, political activists, people working with large animals or at great heights. Your son wants to be in a slightly risky situation for one month of what has, almost certainly, been quite a sheltered life up to now.
posted by toucan at 11:14 AM on February 6
If you two can access a couple of sessions to discuss your fears and the true risk, your spouse especially might benefit enormously. Also, there's an added benefit of adjusting your involvement in spouse's mental health to healthier levels - you should help find the therapist, but you shouldn't have to be one.
Meanwhile, food for thought: all the people in the world, the heroes who are staying in war zones to provide aid - they're at so much more risk. Firefighters, police officers, racecar drivers, political activists, people working with large animals or at great heights. Your son wants to be in a slightly risky situation for one month of what has, almost certainly, been quite a sheltered life up to now.
posted by toucan at 11:14 AM on February 6
Buy him good travel insurance for the month that includes medical care and evacuation insurance. (If you have the budget to do so.) I would also pay for him to have international cell service while he's there.
Again, budget permitting - you and your spouse need 3 therapists - individual ones for both of you and a couple's therapists (maybe you already have these?).
Driving a car on an American highway after 8PM is probably statistically more dangerous!
posted by amaire at 11:26 AM on February 6
Again, budget permitting - you and your spouse need 3 therapists - individual ones for both of you and a couple's therapists (maybe you already have these?).
Driving a car on an American highway after 8PM is probably statistically more dangerous!
posted by amaire at 11:26 AM on February 6
How do we let go and let my son make terrible choices?
You don't because this isn't your choice and there is no "letting" an adult make their own choices. You don't even know enough to know this is a terrible choice but regardless, it is not yours to make.
Do not buy him travel insurance. Ask him if he will accept the gift of travel insurance. Do not buy him an international plan because, again, not your call to make and it will just enable his mother to call him every day. Do not enable people's bullshit.
Your wife needs professional help. Maybe focus your efforts there.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:10 PM on February 6 [7 favorites]
You don't because this isn't your choice and there is no "letting" an adult make their own choices. You don't even know enough to know this is a terrible choice but regardless, it is not yours to make.
Do not buy him travel insurance. Ask him if he will accept the gift of travel insurance. Do not buy him an international plan because, again, not your call to make and it will just enable his mother to call him every day. Do not enable people's bullshit.
Your wife needs professional help. Maybe focus your efforts there.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:10 PM on February 6 [7 favorites]
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posted by mecran01 at 12:14 PM on February 5