Help me find the used AWD hybrid or EV of my dreams
January 27, 2024 6:03 PM Subscribe
Improved charging infrastructure near me means I can finally consider an EV or hybrid! I drive very little - less than 3000 miles a year - and prefer buying used. Local conditions require AWD, but I absolutely do not want a SUV.
So, maybe you own or know a used make and model that fulfills some or all of my requirements?
- EV or hybrid
- hatchback or wagon
- AWD (capable of handling snow/ice and rocky/muddy rural dirt roads)
- high safety ratings
- not a Tesla
Thank you!
So, maybe you own or know a used make and model that fulfills some or all of my requirements?
- EV or hybrid
- hatchback or wagon
- AWD (capable of handling snow/ice and rocky/muddy rural dirt roads)
- high safety ratings
- not a Tesla
Thank you!
Kia and Hyundai make AWD/RWD EVs that are kind of hot-hatch/crossover type vehicles. If you want AWD, you have to look for models that have motors in all wheels, instead of just in the rear (RWD).
Perhaps put snow or snow-biased all-season tires on the car to optimize for that kind of driving. I have Michelin CrossClimate 2s and they are like driving on butter.
I don't know about used offerings but maybe if you search around you can find something in those categories?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:09 PM on January 27
Perhaps put snow or snow-biased all-season tires on the car to optimize for that kind of driving. I have Michelin CrossClimate 2s and they are like driving on butter.
I don't know about used offerings but maybe if you search around you can find something in those categories?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:09 PM on January 27
The Prius AWD and RAV4 go back to 2018 and 2015 as AWD versions.
posted by nickggully at 6:13 PM on January 27 [1 favorite]
posted by nickggully at 6:13 PM on January 27 [1 favorite]
Honestly, I'd get a Subaru- they make an EV hatchback, Solterra, which basically looks like their typical Subaru. AWD and Subaru's handle well in bad conditions.
posted by Toddles at 6:24 PM on January 27 [2 favorites]
posted by Toddles at 6:24 PM on January 27 [2 favorites]
Your reference to charging infrastructure is a bit puzzling in the context of asking about hybrids. Hybrid cars never need to be electrically charged - and most models literally cannot be. Are you interested only in plug-in hybrids specifically?
Similarly, there's a bit of tension between you wanting to strictly avoid SUVs, and still prioritizing the ability to drive on rocky/muddy dirt roads. Are you drawing a distinction between SUVs and crossovers?
posted by kickingtheground at 6:54 PM on January 27
Similarly, there's a bit of tension between you wanting to strictly avoid SUVs, and still prioritizing the ability to drive on rocky/muddy dirt roads. Are you drawing a distinction between SUVs and crossovers?
posted by kickingtheground at 6:54 PM on January 27
I have an electric Kia Niro that I love. It's not AWD, but it does okay in ice/snow. Maybe look into an electric Chevy Blazer or one of the Rivians. One thing about mud, electric vehicles are much heavier than gas engine cars, so are not great to drive off road.
posted by Sparky Buttons at 7:04 PM on January 27
posted by Sparky Buttons at 7:04 PM on January 27
One thing to note is that there are MANY vehicles marketed as SUVs for but aren't really, so be careful with your search filters. For example, the Hyundai Kona EV that I have (FWD, so it doesn't match your specs) is called an SUV but it's dimensionally indistinguishable from a Mazda3 hatchback - couple inches shorter in length, couple inches taller.
posted by true at 7:31 PM on January 27
posted by true at 7:31 PM on January 27
Response by poster: Excellent points, kickingtheground, thanks.
To clarify, I did mean to specify plug-in hybrids. For body type, I prefer the smallest car that will allow me to handle my local conditions, and many crossovers that I see on the road loom over my current vehicle, an almost 20-year-old Subaru hatchback.
posted by minervous at 7:54 PM on January 27
To clarify, I did mean to specify plug-in hybrids. For body type, I prefer the smallest car that will allow me to handle my local conditions, and many crossovers that I see on the road loom over my current vehicle, an almost 20-year-old Subaru hatchback.
posted by minervous at 7:54 PM on January 27
I've been tempted by the Hyundai Ioniq 5, which has been very well reviewed. But there may not be many used ones on the market yet, and those that are won't have much of a discount. The Subaru Solterra also looks nice if you'd like to stick with the Subes, but apparently the range is a bit lower. If I was buying an EV today it'd be one of those probably. It's also a bit closer to SUV than the Hyundai.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 8:02 PM on January 27
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 8:02 PM on January 27
The Mini Cooper Countryman comes as an AWD with hybrid (or I think they make an EV now.) They are very small, cute, comfortable, and do great in ice, mud, and snow. I have friends in Seward AK who love theirs.
posted by blnkfrnk at 9:08 PM on January 27
posted by blnkfrnk at 9:08 PM on January 27
I have Much To Say About EVs and have done so here in the past. In short they are fantastic, even for people who drive on long roadtrips -- ask me how I know. Anyway, for now I will just comment on two things:
If you want AWD, you have to look for models that have motors in all wheels, instead of just in the rear (RWD).
This is misleading in that it implies four motors for the four wheels. With few exceptions, all electric AWD vehicles do it with TWO motors -- one on each axle. Funny story: on my first AWD EV, one day I punched it in busy traffic to get out of tight spot. The rear motor controller decided at that instant to blow up, and the car only hesitated for a half second and then continued with the front motor. Half the f---ing drivetrain failed and the car shrugged and kept going on the other one! Freaking awesome! (It turned out that the controller module had a bad seal, water got into it, it was a known design flaw, and the mfg immediately fixed it under warranty.)
I've been tempted by the Hyundai Ioniq 5, which has been very well reviewed. But there may not be many used ones on the market yet, and those that are won't have much of a discount.
I very nearly bought one of those new just a few weeks ago -- it's a great car. Be aware that Hyundai is actually discounting leases of the Ioniq 5 by $15,000 right now! (And don't be afraid to lease -- you can buy it out after a month if you like.) So you might actually be able to buy one NEW. And one cool thing about the Ioniq 5 (and perhaps all E-GMP cars) is that it has a snow mode, presumably to reduce power so that you don't spin the wheels in low traction conditions.
The Mini Cooper Countryman comes as an AWD with hybrid (or I think they make an EV now.)
They make a PHEV version, not EV. My wife really likes that as her next car, but I'm nervous about Mini's long history of making poor quality cars. Note: possibly a very dated opinion.
Finally, I know you said AWD, but the (RWD) BMW i3 is such a great little car. Here's some useful info about buying a used BMW i3.
posted by intermod at 9:26 PM on January 27 [5 favorites]
If you want AWD, you have to look for models that have motors in all wheels, instead of just in the rear (RWD).
This is misleading in that it implies four motors for the four wheels. With few exceptions, all electric AWD vehicles do it with TWO motors -- one on each axle. Funny story: on my first AWD EV, one day I punched it in busy traffic to get out of tight spot. The rear motor controller decided at that instant to blow up, and the car only hesitated for a half second and then continued with the front motor. Half the f---ing drivetrain failed and the car shrugged and kept going on the other one! Freaking awesome! (It turned out that the controller module had a bad seal, water got into it, it was a known design flaw, and the mfg immediately fixed it under warranty.)
I've been tempted by the Hyundai Ioniq 5, which has been very well reviewed. But there may not be many used ones on the market yet, and those that are won't have much of a discount.
I very nearly bought one of those new just a few weeks ago -- it's a great car. Be aware that Hyundai is actually discounting leases of the Ioniq 5 by $15,000 right now! (And don't be afraid to lease -- you can buy it out after a month if you like.) So you might actually be able to buy one NEW. And one cool thing about the Ioniq 5 (and perhaps all E-GMP cars) is that it has a snow mode, presumably to reduce power so that you don't spin the wheels in low traction conditions.
The Mini Cooper Countryman comes as an AWD with hybrid (or I think they make an EV now.)
They make a PHEV version, not EV. My wife really likes that as her next car, but I'm nervous about Mini's long history of making poor quality cars. Note: possibly a very dated opinion.
Finally, I know you said AWD, but the (RWD) BMW i3 is such a great little car. Here's some useful info about buying a used BMW i3.
posted by intermod at 9:26 PM on January 27 [5 favorites]
Best answer: You might want to consider whether you really need AWD since FWD will open up a lot more options for you.
I live in a very snowy area and I go on a steep dirt road to get home in a FWD EV and it is great. With modern traction control and the large amount of torque available even a low speeds in an EV, FWD in the snow is very capable. I've driven vehicles here that were not great in the snow and vehicles that were pretty good in the snow and the FWD EV is the best I've driven in snow.
posted by ssg at 9:40 PM on January 27 [2 favorites]
I live in a very snowy area and I go on a steep dirt road to get home in a FWD EV and it is great. With modern traction control and the large amount of torque available even a low speeds in an EV, FWD in the snow is very capable. I've driven vehicles here that were not great in the snow and vehicles that were pretty good in the snow and the FWD EV is the best I've driven in snow.
posted by ssg at 9:40 PM on January 27 [2 favorites]
Ssg, which FWD is that? (I've been trying to convince a snowy-road driver in my life to get an EV.)
posted by slidell at 11:50 PM on January 27
posted by slidell at 11:50 PM on January 27
If you don't want an SUV, you're pretty left with one of the Subarus that may be priced reasonably.
posted by kschang at 1:29 AM on January 28
posted by kschang at 1:29 AM on January 28
The Ioniq5 is much larger than what the OP wants, I believe.
posted by hoyland at 4:48 AM on January 28
posted by hoyland at 4:48 AM on January 28
Yeah maybe say more about local conditions, because I lived in a place that regularly got a foot of snow and my Nissan Leaf handled it fine — the batteries make EV’s heavier than comparably-sized gas cars and they really stick to the road. I think your desire for not-an-SUV-or-Tesla may be at odds with your desire for AWD so one of them may need to give and I’d say the AWD requirement may be easier to give up and still get you what you want.
posted by The Vintner of Our Disco Tent at 5:36 AM on January 28
posted by The Vintner of Our Disco Tent at 5:36 AM on January 28
Consider Volvo's EVs, the XC40 or C40. Their plug-in hybrids the XC60 and XC90 are interesting too. All offer AWD. I got a C40 a few months ago and am quite happy with it.
posted by Nelson at 6:31 AM on January 28
posted by Nelson at 6:31 AM on January 28
There decision on whether RWD, FWD or AWD are the right choices to go for in an EV - in terms of the pay off in efficiency and handling - are different than they are in ICE vehicles, for reasons summarised in this video by Sam Evan’s. In short - don’t rule out any model which might otherwise have been a contender on your list, on the grounds of drive type alone. Instead look for specific reviews that talk about their snow handling.
posted by rongorongo at 7:41 AM on January 28
posted by rongorongo at 7:41 AM on January 28
Ssg, which FWD is that? (I've been trying to convince a snowy-road driver in my life to get an EV.)
It's the Volt, which is technically a hybrid, but operates as an EV at the start. Not available any more though. I know people with Bolts around here as well, as well as Leafs and others.
posted by ssg at 8:21 AM on January 28
It's the Volt, which is technically a hybrid, but operates as an EV at the start. Not available any more though. I know people with Bolts around here as well, as well as Leafs and others.
posted by ssg at 8:21 AM on January 28
And picking up on the Chevy Volt, it's the OG of used EV bargains. There are two generations, and don't rule out the older 1st gen, which was fabulously well engineered due to being a halo project for GM at the time. There is lots of useful info about buying a used Volt (1st gen or 2nd gen) detailed here.
posted by intermod at 8:40 AM on January 28
posted by intermod at 8:40 AM on January 28
Best answer: I was also scoping out used Volts. It's an interesting car, but the info in the link above is outdated. Batteries for 1st gen Volts are no longer available from GM, and the options for rebuilt and used packs are limited and total-the-car expensive. In general, concerns about batteries in EVs and hybrids are grossly overhyped, but in a few specific cases (such as this one) something to seriously consider.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 11:17 AM on January 28
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 11:17 AM on January 28
I agree with others that you'll probably need to let go of your AWD requirement if you're looking for something used that isn't an SUV or a Tesla.
The good news is that four snow tires for the winter and four all-terrain tires for the rest of the year cost far less than an AWD drivetrain and will give you better performance in almost every situation. Car and Driver says that "an AWD sedan on all-season tires has significantly less traction for turning or braking on snowy roads than a front- or rear-wheel-drive sedan does on a set of four winter (snow) tires."
All that said, you won't be able to find it used this year but Volvo is releasing a small EV in August: 2025 Volvo EX30. Its dimensions will be 166.7" long, 72.3" wide, and 61.2" high, roughy the size of a Chevy Bolt. (And if you let go of your AWD requirement, you can get a used Bolt easily and they're a lot of fun to drive.)
posted by jesourie at 12:58 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
The good news is that four snow tires for the winter and four all-terrain tires for the rest of the year cost far less than an AWD drivetrain and will give you better performance in almost every situation. Car and Driver says that "an AWD sedan on all-season tires has significantly less traction for turning or braking on snowy roads than a front- or rear-wheel-drive sedan does on a set of four winter (snow) tires."
All that said, you won't be able to find it used this year but Volvo is releasing a small EV in August: 2025 Volvo EX30. Its dimensions will be 166.7" long, 72.3" wide, and 61.2" high, roughy the size of a Chevy Bolt. (And if you let go of your AWD requirement, you can get a used Bolt easily and they're a lot of fun to drive.)
posted by jesourie at 12:58 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
The Ioniq5 is much larger than what the OP wants, I believe.
An Ioniq5 is between a hot-hatch and SUV. It is not an SUV, however.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:26 PM on January 28
An Ioniq5 is between a hot-hatch and SUV. It is not an SUV, however.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:26 PM on January 28
The Solterra is actually a toyota-made, subura-branded car. Not a huge fan of it, though I am a big Subaru fan.
I do recommend the Crosstek hybrid, however. My son has it and is very happy with it. 20 miles on battery alone, and then will switch to hybrid mode.
My beef with full EV is the charging.. if power goes out (a higher possibility in some areas than others, but with storms and such, it happens), and the range without charging issue, hybrid I believe gives the best trade off.
You will pay a premium for any hybrid, even one that is used, as they are in high demand.
posted by rich at 10:44 AM on January 29 [1 favorite]
I do recommend the Crosstek hybrid, however. My son has it and is very happy with it. 20 miles on battery alone, and then will switch to hybrid mode.
My beef with full EV is the charging.. if power goes out (a higher possibility in some areas than others, but with storms and such, it happens), and the range without charging issue, hybrid I believe gives the best trade off.
You will pay a premium for any hybrid, even one that is used, as they are in high demand.
posted by rich at 10:44 AM on January 29 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for all the answers, everyone. I am especially grateful to learn more about the necessity (or not) of AWD in an EV. I also appreciate spitbull’s point about the financial side of the decision, given how little I drive.
posted by minervous at 11:50 AM on January 29
posted by minervous at 11:50 AM on January 29
To be clear, I wouldn't really recommend a Volt for anyone at this point. It was a good idea at the time (7-10 years ago) to bridge the gap between full EVs and plug in hybrids when batteries were still kind of expensive, range was limited and charging infrastructure was weak and slow. Things have changed a lot since then and it no longer really makes sense to lug around a gas motor when a real EV is a much more feasible option. If they were selling used for cheap, they might not be a bad option, but for the price they command used, I wouldn't recommend them.
posted by ssg at 12:53 PM on January 30 [1 favorite]
posted by ssg at 12:53 PM on January 30 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Hi, all. Chiming in almost 9 months later to say that I ended up getting a 7 year old Subaru crosstrek with just over 90k miles on it. Spitball’s feedback (since deleted along with their account) pointed out that the paltry amount of driving I do argued for spending as little as possible on the most reliable vehicle I could find that met my requirements. Although the crosstrek is bigger than I hoped, it is shorter and just a bit taller than my old outback, and has great clearance and awd. I paid 14k cash, which is the most my cheapskate ass has ever paid for a car. My EV/hybrid dream is deferred, but not dead.
Thank you again for al the education and help.
posted by minervous at 9:12 AM on October 12 [3 favorites]
Thank you again for al the education and help.
posted by minervous at 9:12 AM on October 12 [3 favorites]
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posted by wowenthusiast at 6:07 PM on January 27