What’s your dream range? Do you like one you’ve had?
November 28, 2023 3:21 PM Subscribe
This was me. I’m still remodeling my kitchen, but plans have changed and now I’m going with a range (oven & stove combo) instead of the separate cooktop and wall oven. I’d love to hear from folks with opinions on ranges. Pro-level is an option, but is it actually better?? As before, my question is a plea for you to share your experience with specific brands, models, and/or features that were either good or bad to help inform my choice.
The details:
I am looking for an attractive, high-performing range with a gas cooktop (I’m aware of the controversy but this is not negotiable). I think most likely I’m looking for dual fuel aka electric oven, but I’m open to a gas oven if it’s better. I want a single oven, not a double.
As when I searched for cooktops, I’m having trouble discerning what is good and finding reliable information about these products. I’ve checked Consumer Reports, Wirecutter, reviews of specific models on manufacturer’s websites… I’ve been to stores to try to see and touch. I just truly cannot tell, like for example, is Viking actually good (and worth $12,000…) or is it a complete piece of crap??
It’s really important to me that my stove be reliable and have good fine controls on the cooktop portion, consistent temperatures, preferably no needless electronics, and an attractive design. That last one is tricky. The most important aspect is that I find the appliance an absolute joy and pleasure to use. That means pleasant feel on controls, great performance, and just generally a nice experience to cook.
I am open to either 30-inch or 36-inch models. Going with 36 means I’ll lose some counter/cabinet space (the kitchen is small but I think I might have to live with this to get something I think looks nice) and I’d also have to buy a new vent hood (I’m willing to do that but I just don’t want to be an idiot and egregiously overspend).
I have considered lots of models so far and I’ll share some thoughts here. Normal ones:
LG LSDL6336F - this is Consumer Reports’ top pick, but I don’t like the huge digital control panel or the handle, and overall I just don’t enjoy the design.
Café C2S900P2MS1 - CR likes this one okay too but it has this horrible rubber strip between the burners and the front of the unit that is a complete dealbreaker! It’s ugly and although I think the point of it is to keep food/crumbs from getting stuck, it seems like a magnet for crumbs??
Higher-end ones:
Viking Series 5 36-inch dual fuel - a friend has this and loves it. But the reviews I’ve seen for Viking are not good and also this one costs $12,000 as I mentioned above. That’s potentially possible for this renovation, but I really want to feel sure I will love it and that it will perform well and not just be attractive (I do like the look). The 30-inch version only has 4 burners which doesn’t seem like something I would like (but I’m open to it again if y’all love it).
Café 36-inch dual fuel commercial-style - another friend has this one and they also love theirs. Reviews are okay, but again it’s expensive (at $8,200 it makes the Viking seem reasonable!) and my husband is not in love with the aesthetics of it. I’m open to this one though especially if more folks have personal experiences. We don’t love Cafe’s little copper ring they put on everything.
KitchenAid 36-inch commercial-style dual fuel - this one I think is very attractive, and I love that it doesn’t have a touchscreen/needlessly fancy obvious control, but I learned in my research that it DOES still have wifi and other electronic components/a computer in it that it faulty and can break. Reviews of this are not amazing and they concern me. Like the Viking option, this one comes in a 30-inch but that one only has 4 burners. Like the Café pro one, it’s around the $8k area.
I'm in San Diego, California, in case you have any region-specific thoughts or any local recommendations for dealers or service provider considerations.
As you can see… I’m all over the place on this one! I’d love any and all advice and especially personal experiences with specific models. Thank you!
The details:
I am looking for an attractive, high-performing range with a gas cooktop (I’m aware of the controversy but this is not negotiable). I think most likely I’m looking for dual fuel aka electric oven, but I’m open to a gas oven if it’s better. I want a single oven, not a double.
As when I searched for cooktops, I’m having trouble discerning what is good and finding reliable information about these products. I’ve checked Consumer Reports, Wirecutter, reviews of specific models on manufacturer’s websites… I’ve been to stores to try to see and touch. I just truly cannot tell, like for example, is Viking actually good (and worth $12,000…) or is it a complete piece of crap??
It’s really important to me that my stove be reliable and have good fine controls on the cooktop portion, consistent temperatures, preferably no needless electronics, and an attractive design. That last one is tricky. The most important aspect is that I find the appliance an absolute joy and pleasure to use. That means pleasant feel on controls, great performance, and just generally a nice experience to cook.
I am open to either 30-inch or 36-inch models. Going with 36 means I’ll lose some counter/cabinet space (the kitchen is small but I think I might have to live with this to get something I think looks nice) and I’d also have to buy a new vent hood (I’m willing to do that but I just don’t want to be an idiot and egregiously overspend).
I have considered lots of models so far and I’ll share some thoughts here. Normal ones:
LG LSDL6336F - this is Consumer Reports’ top pick, but I don’t like the huge digital control panel or the handle, and overall I just don’t enjoy the design.
Café C2S900P2MS1 - CR likes this one okay too but it has this horrible rubber strip between the burners and the front of the unit that is a complete dealbreaker! It’s ugly and although I think the point of it is to keep food/crumbs from getting stuck, it seems like a magnet for crumbs??
Higher-end ones:
Viking Series 5 36-inch dual fuel - a friend has this and loves it. But the reviews I’ve seen for Viking are not good and also this one costs $12,000 as I mentioned above. That’s potentially possible for this renovation, but I really want to feel sure I will love it and that it will perform well and not just be attractive (I do like the look). The 30-inch version only has 4 burners which doesn’t seem like something I would like (but I’m open to it again if y’all love it).
Café 36-inch dual fuel commercial-style - another friend has this one and they also love theirs. Reviews are okay, but again it’s expensive (at $8,200 it makes the Viking seem reasonable!) and my husband is not in love with the aesthetics of it. I’m open to this one though especially if more folks have personal experiences. We don’t love Cafe’s little copper ring they put on everything.
KitchenAid 36-inch commercial-style dual fuel - this one I think is very attractive, and I love that it doesn’t have a touchscreen/needlessly fancy obvious control, but I learned in my research that it DOES still have wifi and other electronic components/a computer in it that it faulty and can break. Reviews of this are not amazing and they concern me. Like the Viking option, this one comes in a 30-inch but that one only has 4 burners. Like the Café pro one, it’s around the $8k area.
I'm in San Diego, California, in case you have any region-specific thoughts or any local recommendations for dealers or service provider considerations.
As you can see… I’m all over the place on this one! I’d love any and all advice and especially personal experiences with specific models. Thank you!
Definitely spend the money if you have it to get the 36 inch range. We just put a 36 in Bosch induction, and the induction is great, but what is even more great is having 5 burners that aren’t fighting with each other.
posted by rockindata at 5:32 PM on November 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by rockindata at 5:32 PM on November 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
If you have the budget, I’d go for a Wolf. What I wanted and what every serious home chef I know lusts after. The red knobs are iconic. Every restauranteur/chef I know who can afford it has one at home.
I had that KitchenAid and loved it.
Bluestar are also great but don’t come in dual fuel.
Don’t go Miele. Have one due to remodeling in 2021 when nothing was available; hate it, nothing but problems and technician said they see a lot of issues with it.
posted by amaire at 6:15 PM on November 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
I had that KitchenAid and loved it.
Bluestar are also great but don’t come in dual fuel.
Don’t go Miele. Have one due to remodeling in 2021 when nothing was available; hate it, nothing but problems and technician said they see a lot of issues with it.
posted by amaire at 6:15 PM on November 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have a Viking similar to the series 5. Even with the "Varisimmer" it is tough to get the burners to go as low as I want for simmering, melting butter, etc. I wouldn't say it has fine control at low temps.
posted by foodmapper at 6:18 PM on November 28, 2023
posted by foodmapper at 6:18 PM on November 28, 2023
I went for a 36" in a small kitchen and don't regret it. You are losing counter space but a stovetop is its own kind of counter space - for example, for a hot baking sheet coming out of the oven.
I'd recommend finding a knowledgeable local appliance store. aramaic mentioned the Yale Appliance blog, which is great, and that's actually where I went to buy my appliances after not getting questions answered at a more convenient but basic appliance store. Bonus if the stores have demos or classes. (For example, the Miele experience centers were a great way to get a more in-depth feel of their appliances). I have a Miele and love it, it does have great burner control, but it also has electronics so it doesn't seem to be your type.
posted by beyond_pink at 6:21 PM on November 28, 2023
I'd recommend finding a knowledgeable local appliance store. aramaic mentioned the Yale Appliance blog, which is great, and that's actually where I went to buy my appliances after not getting questions answered at a more convenient but basic appliance store. Bonus if the stores have demos or classes. (For example, the Miele experience centers were a great way to get a more in-depth feel of their appliances). I have a Miele and love it, it does have great burner control, but it also has electronics so it doesn't seem to be your type.
posted by beyond_pink at 6:21 PM on November 28, 2023
On of my good friends had a Blue Star gas range, and loved it(they recently replaced it with a Berlotozzi induction as part of an electrification push)
posted by rockindata at 6:22 PM on November 28, 2023
posted by rockindata at 6:22 PM on November 28, 2023
Nthing Bluestar! Great value and bulletproof construction, plus funky star shaped burners work really well.
I got one installed and can't believe how good it is: A mix of super high temp burners and low power simmer ones, a quasi-professional in-oven broiler function for great char, and the oven can reach high temps.
Plus, the top of the range (where the burners are) has easily detachable metallic pieces that clean well in the dishwasher to keep the range pristine.
I didn't get the model with a countertop BBQ/griddle because my ability to exhaust/vent smoke was limited, but you should: It's the closest thing to countertop flame grilling you will get, short of a fully professional setup.
posted by Bigbootay. Tay! Tay! Blam! Aargh... at 6:48 PM on November 28, 2023
I got one installed and can't believe how good it is: A mix of super high temp burners and low power simmer ones, a quasi-professional in-oven broiler function for great char, and the oven can reach high temps.
Plus, the top of the range (where the burners are) has easily detachable metallic pieces that clean well in the dishwasher to keep the range pristine.
I didn't get the model with a countertop BBQ/griddle because my ability to exhaust/vent smoke was limited, but you should: It's the closest thing to countertop flame grilling you will get, short of a fully professional setup.
posted by Bigbootay. Tay! Tay! Blam! Aargh... at 6:48 PM on November 28, 2023
Our new house came with a 36 inch viking range with a center griddle, almost certainly from their big reno in 1998. It took a couple of weeks after we moved in to go from "This looks like fun and all but I'd never have chosen this" to "I will never be without this ever again."
If it died tomorrow, I probably wouldn't want to replace it with another Viking; their reputation for quality control is better than it was a few years ago but still nowhere what it needs to be for the price.
One thing to be aware of is that the 36 inch "pro style" ranges have smaller ovens than you might expect. Wide, of course, but often noticeably smaller overall capacity than the ovens in bog-standard 30-inch ranges. And while the cooktop is WUNNERFUL, at least in our old one the oven is eh, it's an oven. Dumps a ton of heat into the kitchen. Which is to say that if you do decide to go 36 inch, I'd recommend thinking yet again about a rangetop and wall oven.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:56 PM on November 28, 2023
If it died tomorrow, I probably wouldn't want to replace it with another Viking; their reputation for quality control is better than it was a few years ago but still nowhere what it needs to be for the price.
One thing to be aware of is that the 36 inch "pro style" ranges have smaller ovens than you might expect. Wide, of course, but often noticeably smaller overall capacity than the ovens in bog-standard 30-inch ranges. And while the cooktop is WUNNERFUL, at least in our old one the oven is eh, it's an oven. Dumps a ton of heat into the kitchen. Which is to say that if you do decide to go 36 inch, I'd recommend thinking yet again about a rangetop and wall oven.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:56 PM on November 28, 2023
Oh yeah, the house also came with a Ventahood with two impellers. Works great, easy to clean, and after around a year there wasn't much cleaning that needed to happen.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:59 PM on November 28, 2023
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:59 PM on November 28, 2023
Look at a Hallman. Made in Italy but surprisingly affordable. I replaced a 36 inch Viking with a red, duel fuel Hallman with brass trim and it is STUNNING. The best performing range I’ve ever owned. They take a while to be delivered but definitely worth the wait.
posted by pearlybob at 2:29 AM on November 29, 2023
posted by pearlybob at 2:29 AM on November 29, 2023
I have a six-burner “old style” Wolf range—the kind that has open burners with an inner ring for low temperatures, which I think is far superior to the current design with closed burners and stacked rings. This ticks all your boxes except possibly Wolf ranges of that vintage don’t come in dual fuel. Important to your desires, there are no electronics other than the ignition sparkers. I’m not sure you can get dual fuel without electronics. We have a separate under-counter Bosch electric oven with all the bells and whistles that we use for most oven-related tasks. If a used old-style Wolf and a new under-counter or in-wall electric oven with all the modern bells and whistles would fit within your budget and the scope/design of your reno, I’d highly recommend it. The oven on a six-burner stove is too big for most uses.
One thing you will definitely need if you get a high BTU stove is a powerful externally vented range hood. This is, in my experience, nonnegotiable.
posted by slkinsey at 4:32 AM on November 29, 2023
One thing you will definitely need if you get a high BTU stove is a powerful externally vented range hood. This is, in my experience, nonnegotiable.
posted by slkinsey at 4:32 AM on November 29, 2023
I picked up a secondhand Bluestar about 4 years ago, in part because I’d lost patience with the frequently malfunctioning touchscreen controls on a high-end Electrolux. I’m glad to have it, but it hasn’t been at all trouble-free. The oven door hinges failed, necessitating replacement of the entire door because the original hinges are NLA. The wires going to the oven ignitor were misrouted at the factory, pinched between two panels which eventually wore through the insulation and shorted them out, sending a shower of sparks across my kitchen. I still need to replace the seized convection fan. Bluestar customer service runs hot and cold, quoting wildly different parts prices depending on the day and who answers the phone. I’ve had one of their technicians generously send parts for free, then stop responding entirely to any followup emails.
Performance-wise, the cooktop is awesome, the oven is just an oven, and the broiler is very good with the caveat that it is small, and only covers a fraction of the oven’s area.
FWIW, Bluestar has recently introduced a dual fuel model, but that puts you back into the land of fancy electronics uncertainty.
To be fair, most of the problems I’ve had were present when I bought the range, and Bluestar has since made design changes to address common failures. If I had the means I might very well buy another — new this time. But my general impression is that it’s a racehorse — a high performer that needs more care and maintenance than a typical cheap everyday stove from GE or Whirlpool.
posted by jon1270 at 4:54 AM on November 29, 2023
Performance-wise, the cooktop is awesome, the oven is just an oven, and the broiler is very good with the caveat that it is small, and only covers a fraction of the oven’s area.
FWIW, Bluestar has recently introduced a dual fuel model, but that puts you back into the land of fancy electronics uncertainty.
To be fair, most of the problems I’ve had were present when I bought the range, and Bluestar has since made design changes to address common failures. If I had the means I might very well buy another — new this time. But my general impression is that it’s a racehorse — a high performer that needs more care and maintenance than a typical cheap everyday stove from GE or Whirlpool.
posted by jon1270 at 4:54 AM on November 29, 2023
We just put in a Bosch 36" gas range. Haven't used it yet!!! But came.here to repeat the Ventahood recommendation. We learned a ton about vent hoods and the Ventahood brand really seemed like the best out there. If you're getting a big gas range you need to get a big fan ;)
posted by dazedandconfused at 6:31 AM on November 29, 2023
posted by dazedandconfused at 6:31 AM on November 29, 2023
Definitely spend the money if you have it to get the 36 inch range. We just put a 36 in Bosch induction, and the induction is great, but what is even more great is having 5 burners that aren’t fighting with each other.
We replaced a stove recently; we went a different direction than the question is asking (we ended up picking induction over gas) so I won't recommend brands beyond saying that if we had chosen gas, I was going to buy a Wolf based partly on what brands had the best support locally. But I will say that if you have the option to put in a 36" range, I would very seriously look at that. In our case, it would have been a major operation to put in a wider stove (requiring expensive changes to counters and cabinets, rather than simply slotting a new one in the same spot, so it wasn't realistic. However, in the past I've cooked on wider stoves and really appreciated the extra space just in terms of having enough area to easily move pots around.
If you're getting a big gas range you need to get a big fan ;)
And, depending on how much air your fan can vent (typically measured in CFM) and how new (i.e., airtight) your house is, you may need to consider a installing source of make-up air.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:51 AM on November 29, 2023
We replaced a stove recently; we went a different direction than the question is asking (we ended up picking induction over gas) so I won't recommend brands beyond saying that if we had chosen gas, I was going to buy a Wolf based partly on what brands had the best support locally. But I will say that if you have the option to put in a 36" range, I would very seriously look at that. In our case, it would have been a major operation to put in a wider stove (requiring expensive changes to counters and cabinets, rather than simply slotting a new one in the same spot, so it wasn't realistic. However, in the past I've cooked on wider stoves and really appreciated the extra space just in terms of having enough area to easily move pots around.
If you're getting a big gas range you need to get a big fan ;)
And, depending on how much air your fan can vent (typically measured in CFM) and how new (i.e., airtight) your house is, you may need to consider a installing source of make-up air.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:51 AM on November 29, 2023
We have been very happy with the 30" KitchenAid slide-in – not the commercial-style, but it still has a continuous cast-iron top.
We couldn't make sense of buying their 30" commercial-style range for $4000 and getting a 4.1 ft³ oven that wouldn't fit a large turkey plus a casserole, when this one cost $1600, looks about the same, and has a nice big 5.8 ft³ oven.
We had originally specced the Wolf to match our Sub-Zero fridge but the oven on that was even smaller. We looked at DCS and Viking and BlueStar and really all the commercial-style ranges had bizarrely small ovens.
Two caveats: our range has a fifth burner but it's a bit useless, too close to the other burners and too small. And there's no high-heat self-cleaning feature, it has only a "steam clean" mode that doesn't do much.
posted by nicwolff at 12:02 PM on November 29, 2023
We couldn't make sense of buying their 30" commercial-style range for $4000 and getting a 4.1 ft³ oven that wouldn't fit a large turkey plus a casserole, when this one cost $1600, looks about the same, and has a nice big 5.8 ft³ oven.
We had originally specced the Wolf to match our Sub-Zero fridge but the oven on that was even smaller. We looked at DCS and Viking and BlueStar and really all the commercial-style ranges had bizarrely small ovens.
Two caveats: our range has a fifth burner but it's a bit useless, too close to the other burners and too small. And there's no high-heat self-cleaning feature, it has only a "steam clean" mode that doesn't do much.
posted by nicwolff at 12:02 PM on November 29, 2023
seconding thumbs down on Miele
posted by MelissaSimon at 12:44 PM on November 29, 2023
posted by MelissaSimon at 12:44 PM on November 29, 2023
My dream range is induction, but mostly because I'm terrible for putting things on my current glass range and burning them. The idea of something being cool as soon as I turn it off is incredibly appealing to me.
posted by Kurichina at 9:08 AM on November 30, 2023
posted by Kurichina at 9:08 AM on November 30, 2023
Response by poster: Thanks so much everyone for your input! I'll dig in more carefully and consider all your suggestions (life took over this week). I so appreciate it. Thanks again!
posted by pupstocks at 5:00 PM on December 1, 2023
posted by pupstocks at 5:00 PM on December 1, 2023
I have a 36-inch KitchenAid dual fuel. I bought it in 2018, and it has no wifi bullshit. I definitely have moments where I could use lower settings on most of the burners. I also wouldn't complain about higher heat when using a wok or deep frying, but mostly it's fine. The oven doesn't see a lot of use, because my family is small and I also have a 24 inch Miele combi oven which I use for most things (I am not sure that I recommend this, since it's drain pump is broken and I am on the fourth repair visit for stupid reasons). The KitchenAid oven has a very, very hot broiler. It warps my sheet pans. I like it a lot because I can make sweet potato wedges in just a few minutes. The oven itself seems to preheat rather slowly -- unless I turn on the broiler, which is what I usually do.
Get a good that vents outdoors -- then you won't have to worry about setting off the fire alarm when you overdo it with the broiler.
posted by novalis_dt at 2:38 PM on December 3, 2023
Get a good that vents outdoors -- then you won't have to worry about setting off the fire alarm when you overdo it with the broiler.
posted by novalis_dt at 2:38 PM on December 3, 2023
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posted by aramaic at 3:37 PM on November 28, 2023 [3 favorites]