How did you fix all the things you didn't like about yourself?
November 11, 2023 8:09 AM Subscribe
I'm going through a lot, and one of the things that my therapist has encouraged me to do is write down all the things I notice about myself that I don't like. I'm amassing quite the list! But one therapy session a week isn't a great way to address all of them, and I'm sure some of you have dealt with similar so… any hints?
This is by no means comprehensive, because I keep adding to it. But so far I have:
I've never been good at accepting praise, and this year has somehow managed to amplify that to the point where the best I can do in the face of "well done" is to say "thank you" and hope they'll stop talking soon. Then I spend the rest of the day in a foul mood.
I know that this is not healthy; I desperately want to change it, but there's only so many therapy sessions and this list has been staring me in the face for weeks.
Any advice would be appreciated. But for the love of all that's holy, please try not to say nice things about me -- I don't think I could take it right now.
This is by no means comprehensive, because I keep adding to it. But so far I have:
- I will always, without fail, read negative tone into a text message, even if it's meant to be positive.
- I struggle to say "no" to people I love, even when I know I should.
- Further to this, I will nearly always find myself saying the thing that someone I love wants to hear rather than telling them the unvarnished truth.
- I'm panicked easily by vagueness — a message from someone close to me saying “I've not had a great morning” gets read as “I've not had a great morning and it's your fault.”
- I don't seem to have the courage to speak my mind about the issues of the day (e.g. trans rights or various conflicts around the world) because I carry so much anger that I worry I'll alienate friends who disagree with me.
- I can no longer handle cognitive load of a large to-do list; at 42, what I dealt with easily at the age of 31 seems like it could crush me, but my responsibilities have only grown over the years.
- I fear that I've reached the end of my useful life: I've got the wisdom of age but no longer have the cockiness of youth; I’m only useful if I can be useful to other people; I have no innate utility or worth. Sometimes I'm not sure what my reason is to go on.
- I don’t like expressing negative feelings to those I love, because expressing negative feels manipulative -- especially if I'm in an argument and my negative feelings are the cause of that argument. If I apologise for my behaviour (let's say I shouted when I shouldn't have) and then explain that it's because I'm feeling very stressed and low, the people I love will generally want to help me with that, and I feel like I've manipulated them into acting that way.
- Similarly, if someone talks to me about how I’m hurting them and that in turn hurts me I feel I have to suffer in silence. After all: I hurt them so why do I deserve to be heard and comforted? This means that whilst I might apologise for how I've behaved and that might help the other person heal, I'm left carrying the hurt, and I don't know how to get rid of it (there's never enough time in therapy).
- I've never suffered deliberate foolishness gladly (for a given value of fool) but now I find behaviour which was previously just annoying utterly enraging, and I hate that I’m getting so angry over others' behaviour.
- I find that I'm completely willing to ditch an idea (especially a creative one) in the face of opposition or lack of enthusiasm (which I always read as opposition), rather than stand up and believe in myself. If something’s not going to be perfect, or I can’t articulate why an idea is good, what’s the point in starting on something? This is particularly true of my "artistic" side, which I really don't believe in and about which I can't talk without air-quotes around "artistic".
- Negative feedback (e.g. someone not liking a piece of art of mine) completely floors me and I don’t always want to get up. I feel like I should be able to drag myself out of the pits, or not care (I tell other artists "what other people think of your work is none of your business" but I can't seem to apply it to myself).
I've never been good at accepting praise, and this year has somehow managed to amplify that to the point where the best I can do in the face of "well done" is to say "thank you" and hope they'll stop talking soon. Then I spend the rest of the day in a foul mood.
I know that this is not healthy; I desperately want to change it, but there's only so many therapy sessions and this list has been staring me in the face for weeks.
Any advice would be appreciated. But for the love of all that's holy, please try not to say nice things about me -- I don't think I could take it right now.
please try not to say nice things about me -- I don't think I could take it right now.
Bad news then: the next step is saying them about yourself. Write down one thing you like about yourself for each item on the list (there's 12). Make them specific. ("I told a joke that three people laughed at" vs "I'm funny.")
Also, maybe fire your therapist; I'm a little worried that they didn't give you more guidance on how to use/process these thoughts about yourself. You're an important part of our community and you deserve high-quality care and support.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 8:22 AM on November 11, 2023 [14 favorites]
Bad news then: the next step is saying them about yourself. Write down one thing you like about yourself for each item on the list (there's 12). Make them specific. ("I told a joke that three people laughed at" vs "I'm funny.")
Also, maybe fire your therapist; I'm a little worried that they didn't give you more guidance on how to use/process these thoughts about yourself. You're an important part of our community and you deserve high-quality care and support.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 8:22 AM on November 11, 2023 [14 favorites]
I suspect what your therapist is trying to do is identify a list of cognitive distortions in your thought patterns so you can challenge them. Like I’m just a person who has been through CBT and I can already map some of them to classic ones.
So this is less a list of things you need to fix vs. a list of things you are telling yourself that you will learn, through therapy, are not as true as you are treating them. And I can hopefully ease your mind in knowing they can indeed be changed after 40 years, as some of mine have been.
But I would 100% the next session ask your therapist to explain to you where you are going with your treatment - because I can understand why, without knowing this is about your thoughts and not your worth as a person, this is an upsetting exercise.
posted by openhearted at 8:28 AM on November 11, 2023 [25 favorites]
So this is less a list of things you need to fix vs. a list of things you are telling yourself that you will learn, through therapy, are not as true as you are treating them. And I can hopefully ease your mind in knowing they can indeed be changed after 40 years, as some of mine have been.
But I would 100% the next session ask your therapist to explain to you where you are going with your treatment - because I can understand why, without knowing this is about your thoughts and not your worth as a person, this is an upsetting exercise.
posted by openhearted at 8:28 AM on November 11, 2023 [25 favorites]
Yeah, this list was a bad idea on your therapist's part. Rather than directing your attention to what you like about yourself and how you can build on those qualities to improve your happiness and quality of life, it's asking you to focus on self-declared "negative" feelings and characteristics (without examining the past experiences that may have contributed to those negative feelings and characteristics in the first place!).
I don't know what they were thinking. I have a feeling they asked you to write this list because it will help them know what to focus on during your therapy sessions, but this is a callous and inconsiderate way to obtain that information. They should know better.
To echo others: find a new therapist.
To answer your question about how to "fix" things about yourself: These feelings did not come out of nowhere. Our past experiences, especially those in the first seven years of our life when we are most impressionable, are a major influence over how we perceive and feel about ourselves.
Whether you consider yourself someone who has gone through "trauma" in the past or not, there are things we can learn about ourselves by looking at our past and how we were raised, spoken to, treated, touched, etc. I've been recommending Nicole LePera's How to Do the Work: Recognize Your Patterns, Heal from Your Past, and Create Your Self on here a lot. If you're not up for reading a book right now, her Twitter account is a great place to get bite-size summaries of her work and see what she's all about.
It may or may not be for you, but I've learned a lot from her books and twitter threads. It's allowed me to do more healing in the past year than I have in my entire lifetime. For me, shifting to a trauma-informed style of therapy (versus CBT) has been life changing. I finally know who I am. I've learned my triggers, identified which feelings and thoughts are my own versus imposed on me by others, and have developed so much compassion not only myself, but people as a whole. Yes, it sounds extremely corny to say, but: all of us have an inner child who still needs and deserves the love, validation, and support that we may not have received (or received enough of) while growing up.
posted by nightrecordings at 8:35 AM on November 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
I don't know what they were thinking. I have a feeling they asked you to write this list because it will help them know what to focus on during your therapy sessions, but this is a callous and inconsiderate way to obtain that information. They should know better.
To echo others: find a new therapist.
To answer your question about how to "fix" things about yourself: These feelings did not come out of nowhere. Our past experiences, especially those in the first seven years of our life when we are most impressionable, are a major influence over how we perceive and feel about ourselves.
Whether you consider yourself someone who has gone through "trauma" in the past or not, there are things we can learn about ourselves by looking at our past and how we were raised, spoken to, treated, touched, etc. I've been recommending Nicole LePera's How to Do the Work: Recognize Your Patterns, Heal from Your Past, and Create Your Self on here a lot. If you're not up for reading a book right now, her Twitter account is a great place to get bite-size summaries of her work and see what she's all about.
It may or may not be for you, but I've learned a lot from her books and twitter threads. It's allowed me to do more healing in the past year than I have in my entire lifetime. For me, shifting to a trauma-informed style of therapy (versus CBT) has been life changing. I finally know who I am. I've learned my triggers, identified which feelings and thoughts are my own versus imposed on me by others, and have developed so much compassion not only myself, but people as a whole. Yes, it sounds extremely corny to say, but: all of us have an inner child who still needs and deserves the love, validation, and support that we may not have received (or received enough of) while growing up.
posted by nightrecordings at 8:35 AM on November 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
This is not actually a lot of different things. This is basically one thing: "I only value myself through other people's eyes." And then you act based on what you think you see there. And then you don't complain or ask for kindness from others until you're at the snapping point, because you're supposed to be serving them and not have any needs.
You might want to find some books or guides (therapy?) on how to handle people pleasing tendencies, and on loving yourself more. Because if being happy doesn't have any value, then there's no value in making other people happy either.
posted by Lady Li at 8:40 AM on November 11, 2023 [39 favorites]
You might want to find some books or guides (therapy?) on how to handle people pleasing tendencies, and on loving yourself more. Because if being happy doesn't have any value, then there's no value in making other people happy either.
posted by Lady Li at 8:40 AM on November 11, 2023 [39 favorites]
I agree with others that this therapy exercise seems undersupported at a minimum and maybe totally misguided. It has been weeks since you saw your therapist? Can you see them on a more regular cadence? Every other week should be an absolute minimum if you're in active therapy (once a week is better if possible). You shouldn't be hanging out with a list of "what's wrong with me" for weeks.
I would reach out to the therapist to determine what exactly you're supposed to be doing with the list (I suspect it is also for assessing cognitive distortions, but geez don't ask someone to take an inventory of things they hate about themselves and leave them hanging with no direction) and maybe express that it is increasing your bad feelings about yourself.
I do want to touch on one thing on your list - the cognitive load item. If you are a woman or AFAB person, losing some cognitive ability and function as you slide into perimenopause is a very real thing that doesn't get talked about enough. A lot of women/AFAB people quietly make adjustments and create systems to cope without talking about it because we don't want to seem less capable, but it is a real and distressing experience. Also, A LOT has happened to everyone in the past 12 years, and unprocessed trauma can impact your cognitive function. I'm not saying you have diagnosable PTSD, but I think many many of us are carrying around minor to moderate PTSD-like symptoms as a result of **waves arms** everything. It is OK to realize that your capabilities are different now than 10+/- years ago, but also realize that the demands the world is placing on us are also different.
posted by jeoc at 8:41 AM on November 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
I would reach out to the therapist to determine what exactly you're supposed to be doing with the list (I suspect it is also for assessing cognitive distortions, but geez don't ask someone to take an inventory of things they hate about themselves and leave them hanging with no direction) and maybe express that it is increasing your bad feelings about yourself.
I do want to touch on one thing on your list - the cognitive load item. If you are a woman or AFAB person, losing some cognitive ability and function as you slide into perimenopause is a very real thing that doesn't get talked about enough. A lot of women/AFAB people quietly make adjustments and create systems to cope without talking about it because we don't want to seem less capable, but it is a real and distressing experience. Also, A LOT has happened to everyone in the past 12 years, and unprocessed trauma can impact your cognitive function. I'm not saying you have diagnosable PTSD, but I think many many of us are carrying around minor to moderate PTSD-like symptoms as a result of **waves arms** everything. It is OK to realize that your capabilities are different now than 10+/- years ago, but also realize that the demands the world is placing on us are also different.
posted by jeoc at 8:41 AM on November 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
The only possible value I can see from such an exercise is identifying broad themes in the things you're so harsh on yourself about and working to unpick what's inspiring that. For example, I'm seeing a lot of "I should be more skilled at maintaining a level emotional keel" stuff (on preview, Lady Li's interpretation feels real too) and, okay, gaining that skill is something specific you could decide to work on in therapy, but moreover, you could dig into why you characterize it as a reason to "dislike yourself" instead of just a set of habits that are hindering you.
posted by teremala at 8:46 AM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by teremala at 8:46 AM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also I'm inclined to give your therapist the benefit of the doubt, if you're showing up to appointments with as strong a self-loathing vibe as you've got here, they may be trying to challenge you directly or identify themes. Or even saying, ok, let's work on one of these and that will force you to address the underlying pattern that underlies many of them.
posted by Lady Li at 8:51 AM on November 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Lady Li at 8:51 AM on November 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
I think OP is male (which is comforting, as that means that men get forgetful too!)
Anyway, having seen your past questions I think a lot of your unhappiness and feelings of low self-worth comes from living with a very controlling and mentally ill person as your partner. You haven't had a lot of positive experiences lately, and you're conditioned to think that other people are mad at you because, well, someone who has untreated mental illness often takes out their illness on those closest to them. Sometimes partners think "If only I'm good enough or perfect myself the other person will respond appropriately or be happy," and that doesn't happen, leaving them feeling like nothing good can ever happen.
posted by kingdead at 9:04 AM on November 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Anyway, having seen your past questions I think a lot of your unhappiness and feelings of low self-worth comes from living with a very controlling and mentally ill person as your partner. You haven't had a lot of positive experiences lately, and you're conditioned to think that other people are mad at you because, well, someone who has untreated mental illness often takes out their illness on those closest to them. Sometimes partners think "If only I'm good enough or perfect myself the other person will respond appropriately or be happy," and that doesn't happen, leaving them feeling like nothing good can ever happen.
posted by kingdead at 9:04 AM on November 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Hello, six sided sock, and welcome to The Long Wilderness!
The long wilderness is the place in your growth and learning where you have enough knowledge and skill to recognize the things about your current state that you don't like or you're not great at, but you're not skilled enough yet to improve them or find work-arounds. (The long wilderness is something a teacher described to me when I was in a similar place. They learned it from their teacher.)
You're 42? Sounds like you're right on track. You yourself say, "I've got the wisdom of age but not the cockiness of youth." That cockiness was what allowed you to bumble into and power through the ways of being where you find yourself now. The wisdom you've acquired is allowing you to see that you want to improve. You're not supposed to have "fixed" everything about yourself at this point. In fact, as you gain more self knowledge, self compassion, wisdom, the idea of fixing yourself will probably recede. None of us have fixed all the stuff. We just get better at saying -- at age 48. 52, 67. etc.-- "Oh right, I'm someone who reads negative tone into everything. What do I need to do to work around that thing that is still true about me?" and with time we get better at doing that thing.
For example, I used to not just judge myself for my need for time alone, but also to catastrophize about it -- I can't handle the normal world, everything's too much, I don't belong, everyone else is doing better at life than I am. I no longer think any of those things. Ever. But guess what? I still need a lot of time alone. I've gotten better at identifying and doing things to connect with people and achieve a sense of belonging. But none of those things has "fixed" a quality I once thought was wrong about me.
So you don't like expressing negative things to someone you love? Ok, in 20 years that might still be true. But you will have sorted out some strategies for how to not like it and at the same time still do it when it needs to be done. You find it easy to ditch creative ideas? You still might find it easy when you're 56. But you'll also have acquired skills that allow you to sidestep that quality about yourself and pursue creative ideas.
The way out of the long wilderness is going through the long wilderness. Each step toward self awareness and compassion gets you closer to the woodland edge. Each small change compounds to improve others. Hang in there.
posted by cocoagirl at 9:39 AM on November 11, 2023 [23 favorites]
The long wilderness is the place in your growth and learning where you have enough knowledge and skill to recognize the things about your current state that you don't like or you're not great at, but you're not skilled enough yet to improve them or find work-arounds. (The long wilderness is something a teacher described to me when I was in a similar place. They learned it from their teacher.)
You're 42? Sounds like you're right on track. You yourself say, "I've got the wisdom of age but not the cockiness of youth." That cockiness was what allowed you to bumble into and power through the ways of being where you find yourself now. The wisdom you've acquired is allowing you to see that you want to improve. You're not supposed to have "fixed" everything about yourself at this point. In fact, as you gain more self knowledge, self compassion, wisdom, the idea of fixing yourself will probably recede. None of us have fixed all the stuff. We just get better at saying -- at age 48. 52, 67. etc.-- "Oh right, I'm someone who reads negative tone into everything. What do I need to do to work around that thing that is still true about me?" and with time we get better at doing that thing.
For example, I used to not just judge myself for my need for time alone, but also to catastrophize about it -- I can't handle the normal world, everything's too much, I don't belong, everyone else is doing better at life than I am. I no longer think any of those things. Ever. But guess what? I still need a lot of time alone. I've gotten better at identifying and doing things to connect with people and achieve a sense of belonging. But none of those things has "fixed" a quality I once thought was wrong about me.
So you don't like expressing negative things to someone you love? Ok, in 20 years that might still be true. But you will have sorted out some strategies for how to not like it and at the same time still do it when it needs to be done. You find it easy to ditch creative ideas? You still might find it easy when you're 56. But you'll also have acquired skills that allow you to sidestep that quality about yourself and pursue creative ideas.
The way out of the long wilderness is going through the long wilderness. Each step toward self awareness and compassion gets you closer to the woodland edge. Each small change compounds to improve others. Hang in there.
posted by cocoagirl at 9:39 AM on November 11, 2023 [23 favorites]
This is not actually a lot of different things. This is basically one thing: "I only value myself through other people's eyes."
Huh, I was going to say that these all sound kind of like a different thing: you place a ton of weight on the negative - everything negative is super meaningful and important - and almost no weight on the positive. (Which makes this a very strange choice of exercise to assign to you of all people.)
I also think you're probably ignoring the role of trauma in your life over the past years. What you described in previous questions sounds genuinely traumatic to me.
When all's said and done, I find living with the me that I've ended up being at the age of 42 to be intensely frustrating, and often disappointing. I want very much to change who I am.
As I've been getting older one thing I think has helped me is that these days I just place less weight on all of this. I spent decades feeling this stuff so intensely, so deeply involved in all the ways I wasn't what I liked or what I wanted to be. I can't do it anymore - I can't keep being so emotionally invested in this. I watch little kids become all-encompassingly despondent or enraged at things that the adult me can just acknowledge the mild unsatisfactoriness of and move on from, and it feels like I've been growing up in a similar way with respect to bigger things, and it feels good. There are still lots of things I don't like about how I am and that I do work on, but I just can't care about it with the intensity that I used to. Life is life, people are imperfect, and yes our job is to make some progress, however slow - but it's not a job to burn out over.
posted by trig at 9:48 AM on November 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
Huh, I was going to say that these all sound kind of like a different thing: you place a ton of weight on the negative - everything negative is super meaningful and important - and almost no weight on the positive. (Which makes this a very strange choice of exercise to assign to you of all people.)
I also think you're probably ignoring the role of trauma in your life over the past years. What you described in previous questions sounds genuinely traumatic to me.
When all's said and done, I find living with the me that I've ended up being at the age of 42 to be intensely frustrating, and often disappointing. I want very much to change who I am.
As I've been getting older one thing I think has helped me is that these days I just place less weight on all of this. I spent decades feeling this stuff so intensely, so deeply involved in all the ways I wasn't what I liked or what I wanted to be. I can't do it anymore - I can't keep being so emotionally invested in this. I watch little kids become all-encompassingly despondent or enraged at things that the adult me can just acknowledge the mild unsatisfactoriness of and move on from, and it feels like I've been growing up in a similar way with respect to bigger things, and it feels good. There are still lots of things I don't like about how I am and that I do work on, but I just can't care about it with the intensity that I used to. Life is life, people are imperfect, and yes our job is to make some progress, however slow - but it's not a job to burn out over.
posted by trig at 9:48 AM on November 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
The psychologist Carl Rogers wrote, “The curious paradox is that when I accept myself just as I am, then I can change.” In looking at your question, I just feel so much compassion for someone who's being so hard on themself.
If it were me, I'd spend some time crying over the piece of paper, of seeing how hard I'm being about my imperfections. I'd do some loving-kindness meditation to try to feel some compassion for myself. Then I'd either burn or rip up the paper, ritualistically (and safely!), to symbolize desire to let go of such harshness.
Then I'd very much ask my therapist, at my next session, to explain why they assigned that exercise and also explain how much self-loathing it was bringing up, to see if there's another way to go about healing that judgment.
posted by lapis at 9:50 AM on November 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
If it were me, I'd spend some time crying over the piece of paper, of seeing how hard I'm being about my imperfections. I'd do some loving-kindness meditation to try to feel some compassion for myself. Then I'd either burn or rip up the paper, ritualistically (and safely!), to symbolize desire to let go of such harshness.
Then I'd very much ask my therapist, at my next session, to explain why they assigned that exercise and also explain how much self-loathing it was bringing up, to see if there's another way to go about healing that judgment.
posted by lapis at 9:50 AM on November 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Look for the patterns in this list:
Several of them indicate that you struggle with boundaries, and over identification with other people. Although you can only feel your own feelings, and not theirs, you are making their feelings more important than your own. That will never work. Sacrificing for other people's benefits and putting their needs first is not always wrong, as when you have a dependent child, but it's a serious mistake with other adults and with people in general because you can't tell what they are feeling and are only inventing a reality when you assume they are talking about you, or asking you for help, or you blaming you, or that you have any way to fix their lives. But you really don't know.
What's worse is that when someone says, "I'm hungry..." and you say, "I'm sorry I didn't make you a better lunch!" your reaction is going to give them an opening to blame you for their hunger. Situations like one where they are naturally hungry because it's 6 PM and the lunch that they ate at noon has worn off will be turned into them feeling misused and helpless and you feeling harried, overworked, inadequate and guilty.
When someone says, "I'm hungry..." and you say, "I'm sorry I didn't make you a better lunch!" what is the reaction you are looking for from them, the thing you'd like to hear them say that would make you feel good about the interaction? What could you say that won't trigger an interaction that makes you feel bad?
You might want to come up with some alternative scripts for you to try when someone else makes demands on you - especially when they don't even know they are making those demands.
You CANNOT do someone else's emotional regulation for them. The most you can do is on rare occasions assist THEM with their own emotional regulation. But if they are going to be upset they are going to be upset and the only thing attempting to help them will do is make you upset too, AND it will make them upset with you. The more often you attempt to help them the less use you will be, because the effort they could be turning to their own emotional regulation will get focused on trying to make you do it instead.
As an analogy, if you are are trying to help a kid learn to ride a bike, you hold the bike upright for them and maybe end up running down the sidewalk after them holding it steady for an hour or so. But if you do it day after day the kid will come to believe that they can't ride without you holding onto the bike to keep them from falling. If you step back at that point, they will grab onto you for balance - and then they will be fixed on the belief that they need to be clinging tightly to you in order to ride a bike. No one can ride a bike while clinging to someone else who is standing on the sidewalk, not even if the person on the sidewalk is trying to run.
All your concern and anxiety about other people's feelings and moods is sabotaging you AND them - and you already know this, or you wouldn't have made up the list you did. You know what the problems are - you just don't know what you should be doing about them and how you can change the situation, so you are staring at the list.
Quite honestly I feel that starting with a list like this is fine - there are two things to watch out for, one is that you blame yourself for everything wrong in your life, but the other mistake you can make is to blame everyone else and that means giving up your power and risks making you spend your life feeling helpless. Making lists could of things you'd like to change doesn't automatically help you to make changes, nor does it automatically lead you to conclude things are hopeless. A list is just a tool. It's no worse to start with things you don't like about your own behavior than it is to start with a list of thing you don't like about other people's behavior. Neither list will be any use unless you use it to gain insight and come up with things YOU can do to make things change.
You might want to ask yourself why you read negative things into neutral or positive things. Chances are there is no one reason you do it. You could be doing so because you are hyper vigilant, having had to live with people who made their problems into yours and you learned to do this to try to forestall them making you even more miserable. But if you haven't simply grown up or changed jobs or split up with them and gotten away from people like that, and set up the conditions for hyper vigilance to fade, then there is a good chance you are repeating the patterns all by yourself in your relationships.
Saying that you are only living what you learned and don't know any better is a description, of what you might be doing, not a reason. I don't know why you are doing it, but off hand I can think of a few possibilities why someone might do that. Likely none of these apply to you, but here goes:
You might be so miserable and anxious that your feelings are coloring your perceptions. You feel afraid and ashamed and it doesn't matter what they do or say. If they say, "You're wonderful!" you feel shame and self loathing. "If they say, "You're awful!" you feel shame and self loathing. And if they say, "Cornflakes!" you feel shame and self loathing.
You might be seeking a closer connection to people, and projecting emotional tones on neutral things so that you get some emotional intensity from otherwise neutral and superficial interactions. (In this case it's actually often easier to project them blaming and needing you than it is to project them wanting to be nice and share their affection and happiness, because if you assume they love and like you, you are at risk of being snubbed. Only truly oblivious people assume people who don't like them do like them. But if you project them being mad at you and they turn out not to be mad, well, that's not an unbearable situation. After all, most likely they will be mad at you again soon.)
You might be seeking to have more control over your world, so looking for occasions to act as a rescuer and stage manager. You get to ignore your own issues while dealing with other people's frankly petty problems, and so much the better if they are unsolvable or are crises, as then you are justified in putting the the problems they present first.
You might be accurately reading insinuations into what they write or do because some of them have learned they can manipulate you.
The people in your social circle may be really suffering and their pain may be leaking through because you are perceptive enough to see through their efforts to hide it.
So that's just the first five possibilities I thought of, and I am sure there are lots more.
The list you presented is an opportunity to analyze and figure out what you are doing that you don't want to keep doing. It's also an opportunity to ruminate and get so upset you can't think clearly enough to use it... If you can't do the former and are only doing the latter, then you need to get rid of the list, and congratulate yourself for having the sense to avoid the bad feelings the list is causing you.
posted by Jane the Brown at 10:02 AM on November 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Several of them indicate that you struggle with boundaries, and over identification with other people. Although you can only feel your own feelings, and not theirs, you are making their feelings more important than your own. That will never work. Sacrificing for other people's benefits and putting their needs first is not always wrong, as when you have a dependent child, but it's a serious mistake with other adults and with people in general because you can't tell what they are feeling and are only inventing a reality when you assume they are talking about you, or asking you for help, or you blaming you, or that you have any way to fix their lives. But you really don't know.
What's worse is that when someone says, "I'm hungry..." and you say, "I'm sorry I didn't make you a better lunch!" your reaction is going to give them an opening to blame you for their hunger. Situations like one where they are naturally hungry because it's 6 PM and the lunch that they ate at noon has worn off will be turned into them feeling misused and helpless and you feeling harried, overworked, inadequate and guilty.
When someone says, "I'm hungry..." and you say, "I'm sorry I didn't make you a better lunch!" what is the reaction you are looking for from them, the thing you'd like to hear them say that would make you feel good about the interaction? What could you say that won't trigger an interaction that makes you feel bad?
You might want to come up with some alternative scripts for you to try when someone else makes demands on you - especially when they don't even know they are making those demands.
You CANNOT do someone else's emotional regulation for them. The most you can do is on rare occasions assist THEM with their own emotional regulation. But if they are going to be upset they are going to be upset and the only thing attempting to help them will do is make you upset too, AND it will make them upset with you. The more often you attempt to help them the less use you will be, because the effort they could be turning to their own emotional regulation will get focused on trying to make you do it instead.
As an analogy, if you are are trying to help a kid learn to ride a bike, you hold the bike upright for them and maybe end up running down the sidewalk after them holding it steady for an hour or so. But if you do it day after day the kid will come to believe that they can't ride without you holding onto the bike to keep them from falling. If you step back at that point, they will grab onto you for balance - and then they will be fixed on the belief that they need to be clinging tightly to you in order to ride a bike. No one can ride a bike while clinging to someone else who is standing on the sidewalk, not even if the person on the sidewalk is trying to run.
All your concern and anxiety about other people's feelings and moods is sabotaging you AND them - and you already know this, or you wouldn't have made up the list you did. You know what the problems are - you just don't know what you should be doing about them and how you can change the situation, so you are staring at the list.
Quite honestly I feel that starting with a list like this is fine - there are two things to watch out for, one is that you blame yourself for everything wrong in your life, but the other mistake you can make is to blame everyone else and that means giving up your power and risks making you spend your life feeling helpless. Making lists could of things you'd like to change doesn't automatically help you to make changes, nor does it automatically lead you to conclude things are hopeless. A list is just a tool. It's no worse to start with things you don't like about your own behavior than it is to start with a list of thing you don't like about other people's behavior. Neither list will be any use unless you use it to gain insight and come up with things YOU can do to make things change.
You might want to ask yourself why you read negative things into neutral or positive things. Chances are there is no one reason you do it. You could be doing so because you are hyper vigilant, having had to live with people who made their problems into yours and you learned to do this to try to forestall them making you even more miserable. But if you haven't simply grown up or changed jobs or split up with them and gotten away from people like that, and set up the conditions for hyper vigilance to fade, then there is a good chance you are repeating the patterns all by yourself in your relationships.
Saying that you are only living what you learned and don't know any better is a description, of what you might be doing, not a reason. I don't know why you are doing it, but off hand I can think of a few possibilities why someone might do that. Likely none of these apply to you, but here goes:
You might be so miserable and anxious that your feelings are coloring your perceptions. You feel afraid and ashamed and it doesn't matter what they do or say. If they say, "You're wonderful!" you feel shame and self loathing. "If they say, "You're awful!" you feel shame and self loathing. And if they say, "Cornflakes!" you feel shame and self loathing.
You might be seeking a closer connection to people, and projecting emotional tones on neutral things so that you get some emotional intensity from otherwise neutral and superficial interactions. (In this case it's actually often easier to project them blaming and needing you than it is to project them wanting to be nice and share their affection and happiness, because if you assume they love and like you, you are at risk of being snubbed. Only truly oblivious people assume people who don't like them do like them. But if you project them being mad at you and they turn out not to be mad, well, that's not an unbearable situation. After all, most likely they will be mad at you again soon.)
You might be seeking to have more control over your world, so looking for occasions to act as a rescuer and stage manager. You get to ignore your own issues while dealing with other people's frankly petty problems, and so much the better if they are unsolvable or are crises, as then you are justified in putting the the problems they present first.
You might be accurately reading insinuations into what they write or do because some of them have learned they can manipulate you.
The people in your social circle may be really suffering and their pain may be leaking through because you are perceptive enough to see through their efforts to hide it.
So that's just the first five possibilities I thought of, and I am sure there are lots more.
The list you presented is an opportunity to analyze and figure out what you are doing that you don't want to keep doing. It's also an opportunity to ruminate and get so upset you can't think clearly enough to use it... If you can't do the former and are only doing the latter, then you need to get rid of the list, and congratulate yourself for having the sense to avoid the bad feelings the list is causing you.
posted by Jane the Brown at 10:02 AM on November 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Focusing on things you don't like about yourself this way is unusual and sounds like a poor therapeutic approach. Ask the therapist why they recommend this.
Meanwhile, you've created a list to worry about and maybe beat yourself up with. All the things you described are natural responses from someone who experiences issues with self-esteem, anxirty, need for confidence. Which applies to a lot of us.
But you asked for a response. I find that I'm completely willing to ditch an idea (especially a creative one) in the face of opposition or lack of enthusiasm (which I always read as opposition), rather than stand up and believe in myself. If something’s not going to be perfect, or I can’t articulate why an idea is good, what’s the point in starting on something? This is particularly true of my "artistic" side, which I really don't believe in and about which I can't talk without air-quotes around "artistic". This is really common in people who don't recognize their own strength, worth, capability, and intelligence. Instead of beating yourself up, make learning Persistence Towards Goals a thing to strive towards. Your goals matter, it's good to push towards them and the results are all about growth. There are lots of ways to learn new habits, criticism, incl. self=criticism, is not one of them.
posted by theora55 at 10:42 AM on November 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
Meanwhile, you've created a list to worry about and maybe beat yourself up with. All the things you described are natural responses from someone who experiences issues with self-esteem, anxirty, need for confidence. Which applies to a lot of us.
But you asked for a response. I find that I'm completely willing to ditch an idea (especially a creative one) in the face of opposition or lack of enthusiasm (which I always read as opposition), rather than stand up and believe in myself. If something’s not going to be perfect, or I can’t articulate why an idea is good, what’s the point in starting on something? This is particularly true of my "artistic" side, which I really don't believe in and about which I can't talk without air-quotes around "artistic". This is really common in people who don't recognize their own strength, worth, capability, and intelligence. Instead of beating yourself up, make learning Persistence Towards Goals a thing to strive towards. Your goals matter, it's good to push towards them and the results are all about growth. There are lots of ways to learn new habits, criticism, incl. self=criticism, is not one of them.
posted by theora55 at 10:42 AM on November 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
Several things occur to me.
Consider Not doing the exercise. Instead tell the therapist openly how this task makes you feel. Or Print the question you posted and ask them to read it.
Possibly there was a miscommunication re the purpose of the list, eg did they literally say you would then work on each bulletin point at the appointments? I do not mean to put blame on you but instead let the therapist know they did not communicate clearly (which is no doubt hard to do but could be a beneficial thing to do and hopefully less terrifying with the therapist.
Also, i would put each bullet point on a separate piece of paper (just cut the list into strips) and then try to group the similar ones together. Many feel to me like similar aspects of the same underlying issue. This may or may not help you understand underlying issues.
If nothing else, tell your therapist exactly how compiling such a list made you feel.
Wishing you courage,
posted by 15L06 at 11:58 AM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Consider Not doing the exercise. Instead tell the therapist openly how this task makes you feel. Or Print the question you posted and ask them to read it.
Possibly there was a miscommunication re the purpose of the list, eg did they literally say you would then work on each bulletin point at the appointments? I do not mean to put blame on you but instead let the therapist know they did not communicate clearly (which is no doubt hard to do but could be a beneficial thing to do and hopefully less terrifying with the therapist.
Also, i would put each bullet point on a separate piece of paper (just cut the list into strips) and then try to group the similar ones together. Many feel to me like similar aspects of the same underlying issue. This may or may not help you understand underlying issues.
If nothing else, tell your therapist exactly how compiling such a list made you feel.
Wishing you courage,
posted by 15L06 at 11:58 AM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also - forgive me if this isn't a welcome suggestion, or if you've already tried it without any luck. I wrote above that I've gotten to the point where I don't feel these things quite so deeply anymore, and was trying to think about how one actually gets to that point. For me it's taken decades and a lot of things that are probably specific to my life. But one other possibility, for some people, anyway, is meds . Not necessarily for the long term, but sometimes you get lucky and find the right medication and dose that lets your brain react to some things in a totally different pattern than what you're used to, and suddenly you realize "huh, this reaction is also an option". Or "huh, I didn't get into an incapacitating emotional pain loop in response to that thing, and turns out that's actually nice". Or just "huh, I feel okay". And then (if you're lucky...) these kinds of better calibrated reactions start to become a habit, and your brain remembers how to take the calmer, more functional path rather than the one where it just constantly beats itself up.
But also, looking at the list again, I can't help thinking how many of those things seem like very predictable adaptations to the living situation and relationship you were in. Which were extreme. I hope you've separated from your spouse, and I hope you're getting therapy specifically targeted at ptsd, because you've been through things.
posted by trig at 1:13 PM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
But also, looking at the list again, I can't help thinking how many of those things seem like very predictable adaptations to the living situation and relationship you were in. Which were extreme. I hope you've separated from your spouse, and I hope you're getting therapy specifically targeted at ptsd, because you've been through things.
posted by trig at 1:13 PM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
Anti-depressants help. Obsessing over real or imagined faults makes them grow larger in your mind, and if you don't want to start crying and thinking everybody hates you, I'd suggest getting something in the Prozac line so you can rise above these thoughts a little.
Group therapy could be helpful, because these are extremely common thoughts. Meeting other, charming and delightful people who secretly feel their lives are pointless and everybody's just pretending to like them, can be an eye-opening experience.
Reality is different than we think. Seeing through the eyes of others an help us find balance.
Good luck, and if nothing else's, try to find one beautiful thing each day. Looking at children, tree silhouettes, sunlight etc, will lift your thoughts at least for a moment.
posted by Enid Lareg at 1:28 PM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Group therapy could be helpful, because these are extremely common thoughts. Meeting other, charming and delightful people who secretly feel their lives are pointless and everybody's just pretending to like them, can be an eye-opening experience.
Reality is different than we think. Seeing through the eyes of others an help us find balance.
Good luck, and if nothing else's, try to find one beautiful thing each day. Looking at children, tree silhouettes, sunlight etc, will lift your thoughts at least for a moment.
posted by Enid Lareg at 1:28 PM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't know if you're fully out of the relationship you've written about before, but a lot of this sounds a whole lot like what being emotionally abused over a prolonged period of time does to your self-concept. (I'm thinking especially of things like always reading '..and it's your fault' into otherwise neutral messaging as something that makes perfect sense if you've had someone telling you it's your fault again and again for a long time, or how being hurt by someone else's hurt feelings also makes plenty of sense when the way they express those feelings is legitimately not okay, or how if your job in a relationship is to make sure a partner is okay and tiptoe around their dysregulated emotional responses, telling them what they want to hear to avoid setting them off becomes just plain self-preservation--and none of these things are just light switches you can flip simply because you're not in the relationship anymore, and obviously much less so if you still are.) I hope at the very least therapy is helping you name what you've been through and deal with the fallout. It really gets into you and breaks you down in some pretty deep ways, and it can take a long time to climb out of.
posted by wormtales at 4:55 PM on November 11, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by wormtales at 4:55 PM on November 11, 2023 [10 favorites]
It sounds like getting a trauma-informed therapist could really make a difference here. Strong +1 to trig and wormtales’ comments that these thought patterns are evidence of having experienced emotional abuse, specifically of someone having taken advantage of your emotional availability.
posted by danceswithlight at 11:35 AM on November 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by danceswithlight at 11:35 AM on November 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Nth, some of the opinions, upthread, that your list points to one thing. You feel defined by another person or maybe only a few others. Because of your affection for them, you believe them, so it's easy to think everyone else is like them. In reality, everyone who knows you has a different picture of who they think you are. Some opinions line up with your own self-image more than others.
You said you have a different version of yourself now than at 31. Good. That's how it's supposed to work. When I think of who I was at 25, I shudder. I hope this means I've progressed.
I believe you know better than anyone else that who you think you are does not quite match the feedback you are getting from certain people. If this list has value, it's because all the things you've listed circle back to that one thing: another's opinion. Please allow me to point out that because we are social creatures, our place in any community is linked to how others see us. But the community's evaluation of us does not represent the only thing we are.
You didn't elaborate on how your artistic facets manifested themselves. Any art can be a venue for expression, and unless you are creating your art to pay the rent, it doesn't matter what other people think of it. If you make pottery, squeezing the clay into submission can be as important as the lousy vase you create.
Ask your therapist what the purpose of the list is. I don't believe trying to tackle the things you've listed one at a time will be productive.
posted by mule98J at 7:52 AM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
You said you have a different version of yourself now than at 31. Good. That's how it's supposed to work. When I think of who I was at 25, I shudder. I hope this means I've progressed.
I believe you know better than anyone else that who you think you are does not quite match the feedback you are getting from certain people. If this list has value, it's because all the things you've listed circle back to that one thing: another's opinion. Please allow me to point out that because we are social creatures, our place in any community is linked to how others see us. But the community's evaluation of us does not represent the only thing we are.
You didn't elaborate on how your artistic facets manifested themselves. Any art can be a venue for expression, and unless you are creating your art to pay the rent, it doesn't matter what other people think of it. If you make pottery, squeezing the clay into submission can be as important as the lousy vase you create.
Ask your therapist what the purpose of the list is. I don't believe trying to tackle the things you've listed one at a time will be productive.
posted by mule98J at 7:52 AM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
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posted by shock muppet at 8:17 AM on November 11, 2023 [36 favorites]