Hanky Panky in Valdemar?
November 6, 2023 7:30 PM
How detailed and extensive are the descriptions of sex in the Valdemar books? I read them a while ago, and I remember people having sexual relationships (and also hooking up), but I don't remember how much that happened. I'm wondering this in the context of listening to them as audiobooks with my 12 year old.
The kiddo loves this kind of fantasy, and this is a step up from the Wings of Fire and Warrior Cats that they've put so many hours into. I loved a handful of Valdemar books when I read them a few years ago. I know there is some sex that happens in them, but I don't remember how detailed the descriptions are. My memory is that they are well contextualized and not particularly erotic. But the kiddo is not at all into the zone where they want to hear about that stuff at all, especially with a parent. If there are a few mentions, we can make it through. But if it's very frequent or the passages are extensive, it's probably better to pass.
In case this varies from series to series, the ones we're most interested in are The Mage Winds,, The Mage Storms, and The Mage Wars. We're currently a few chapters into The Heralds of Valdemar, which has been fine so far (though remember it heating up somewhat when the main characters get snowed in).
I don't have written copies of the books, just audiobooks, so I can't easily flip through the pages. But that is one option, to take out printed copies from the library.
The kiddo loves this kind of fantasy, and this is a step up from the Wings of Fire and Warrior Cats that they've put so many hours into. I loved a handful of Valdemar books when I read them a few years ago. I know there is some sex that happens in them, but I don't remember how detailed the descriptions are. My memory is that they are well contextualized and not particularly erotic. But the kiddo is not at all into the zone where they want to hear about that stuff at all, especially with a parent. If there are a few mentions, we can make it through. But if it's very frequent or the passages are extensive, it's probably better to pass.
In case this varies from series to series, the ones we're most interested in are The Mage Winds,, The Mage Storms, and The Mage Wars. We're currently a few chapters into The Heralds of Valdemar, which has been fine so far (though remember it heating up somewhat when the main characters get snowed in).
I don't have written copies of the books, just audiobooks, so I can't easily flip through the pages. But that is one option, to take out printed copies from the library.
None of the Valdemar scenes are graphic, but in a first encounter between characters there may be a page or two of sex scene involving dialogue or vague description. If you didn’t know how sex worked, you wouldn’t have any idea whose what was where, but they might think about their relative levels of experience. Any subsequent scenes are usually a quick fade to black.
The first two books of Mage Winds have a bit of sex along those lines, once or twice a book. The only thing that might give me pause is that Nyara (the cat lady) is magically manipulated in ways involving sex and abused by her father. It’s described only vaguely, but it comes up enough that you might want to skim the first book from the library.
posted by kite at 8:33 PM on November 6, 2023
The first two books of Mage Winds have a bit of sex along those lines, once or twice a book. The only thing that might give me pause is that Nyara (the cat lady) is magically manipulated in ways involving sex and abused by her father. It’s described only vaguely, but it comes up enough that you might want to skim the first book from the library.
posted by kite at 8:33 PM on November 6, 2023
I remember a male rape in one of the books, which you might want to check out in advance. It's been years since I read the books, I'm quite sure that it's in the Last Herald-Mage trilogy, but I can't pinpoint the book.
posted by rjs at 4:26 AM on November 7, 2023
posted by rjs at 4:26 AM on November 7, 2023
Not to abuse the edit window: it's probably Magic's Price.
posted by rjs at 4:28 AM on November 7, 2023
posted by rjs at 4:28 AM on November 7, 2023
Rape as a plot point may be an issue in other books as well, it might be a good idea to read a few reviews / internet summaries of the books before getting into a new book.
posted by rjs at 4:50 AM on November 7, 2023
posted by rjs at 4:50 AM on November 7, 2023
The third book in the Heralds of Valdemar (Arrows Fall)) has torture and rape, Magic's Price has a moderately graphic m/m rape, The Tarma and Kethry trilogy are pretty much all rape-revenge. I don't recall any others offhand, though - Lackey definitely moved away from rape as a plot point/motivator and hasn't gone back.
The Mage Wars trilogy is... meh overall, but to your question, The Black Gryphon has a POV character who is a sex worker. I don't recall anything graphic, but it's definitely a point of conversation for a twelve-year-old.
I have written reasonably detailed reviews of most of the Valdemar books on Goodreads, if that link works. I like the Mage Storms trilogy a lot better than the Mage Winds trilogy, so if the latter is meh, the former will be more fun.
I will also say that, writing-wise, anything without Larry Dixon is better than anything with (including the Mage Winds books, where he is uncredited but he clearly wrote pretty much all the Taledras POVs) and the later series are generally much stronger than the earlier ones. In particular, for a twelve-year-old, the Collegium Chronicles and Herald Spy books are probably more consistently age-appropriate and are pretty good fun.
posted by restless_nomad at 6:19 AM on November 7, 2023
The Mage Wars trilogy is... meh overall, but to your question, The Black Gryphon has a POV character who is a sex worker. I don't recall anything graphic, but it's definitely a point of conversation for a twelve-year-old.
I have written reasonably detailed reviews of most of the Valdemar books on Goodreads, if that link works. I like the Mage Storms trilogy a lot better than the Mage Winds trilogy, so if the latter is meh, the former will be more fun.
I will also say that, writing-wise, anything without Larry Dixon is better than anything with (including the Mage Winds books, where he is uncredited but he clearly wrote pretty much all the Taledras POVs) and the later series are generally much stronger than the earlier ones. In particular, for a twelve-year-old, the Collegium Chronicles and Herald Spy books are probably more consistently age-appropriate and are pretty good fun.
posted by restless_nomad at 6:19 AM on November 7, 2023
I read most of those books in 7th and 8th grade, and it felt mostly appropriate. However, I personally would have frozen up and tried to will myself out of existence if I was listening to them with an adult. But I grew up in a fast forward through all the kissing scenes kind of family so YMMV.
posted by rip at 4:01 PM on November 7, 2023
posted by rip at 4:01 PM on November 7, 2023
To follow up on restless_nomad's comments, what I remember is that in some of the book there is a level of sadism on the part of the bad guy that made me really uncomfortable when my middle school daughter was reading the books. But I guess people being deliberate cruel for cruelty's sake bothers me more than the fact that some of the characters have not-explicit sex in various combinations.
That said, I would be prepared to have a conversation (or I hope, yet another conversation) around family values concerning sex and intimacy, especially if your values don't exactly match what the characters in the book are doing.
posted by metahawk at 5:25 PM on November 7, 2023
That said, I would be prepared to have a conversation (or I hope, yet another conversation) around family values concerning sex and intimacy, especially if your values don't exactly match what the characters in the book are doing.
posted by metahawk at 5:25 PM on November 7, 2023
Thanks all, these answers are exactly the sort of thing I was looking for. We made it through the snow scene in Arrow's Flight with just a but of fast-forwarding. I'm going to preview Arrow's Fall before we listen to it, and similar if we go on to read more series in the corpus.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 12:06 PM on November 8, 2023
posted by Winnie the Proust at 12:06 PM on November 8, 2023
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I read a lot of her early stuff and not much since then, so I can say that's similar in things like Vows and Honor series (though there's a lot of plot points about rape in that one, but no explicit sex) and By the Sword (which, like Arrows Flight, has one "they got naked, rolled around, it felt good" sex scene). I don't remember the Mage Winds and didn't read any of the later stuff.
Have fun!
posted by gideonfrog at 8:29 PM on November 6, 2023