Tricks to avoid mis-gendering my friend
October 19, 2023 5:10 AM Subscribe
My friend has stated they prefer they/them pronouns. I really want to get this right but my brain is not cooperating and I'm constantly slipping up. Are there any mental tricks or exercises I can do to be better?
I am really trying hard to not slip up so much, but it has been a few months now. I thought time would help but I'm still constantly / inconsistently making mistakes and slipping into the previous pronoun when referring to them. I'm afraid at this point it's way past the reasonable grace period where I misgender them accidentally, and plus it's making me tense / unnatural when I talk to my friend. I think it has to do with a combination of the plural sounding weird to me grammatically, and me having associated them for a long time with the previous pronouns they used. (English is not my first language but I have native proficiency, if it matters).
I'm looking for practical mental tricks or exercises I can do to get better at this. Thank you for your help.
I am really trying hard to not slip up so much, but it has been a few months now. I thought time would help but I'm still constantly / inconsistently making mistakes and slipping into the previous pronoun when referring to them. I'm afraid at this point it's way past the reasonable grace period where I misgender them accidentally, and plus it's making me tense / unnatural when I talk to my friend. I think it has to do with a combination of the plural sounding weird to me grammatically, and me having associated them for a long time with the previous pronouns they used. (English is not my first language but I have native proficiency, if it matters).
I'm looking for practical mental tricks or exercises I can do to get better at this. Thank you for your help.
Do you use they/them a lot for other reasons already? Like if someone says their boss was a jerk that day, I ask "oh are they always like that?"
If you work on a habit of using 'they' for any time gender is unspecified or doesn't matter, it will get easier to use it for the people who prefer it. As a bonus you'll generally speak with less gender bias; win-win!
posted by SaltySalticid at 5:28 AM on October 19, 2023 [43 favorites]
If you work on a habit of using 'they' for any time gender is unspecified or doesn't matter, it will get easier to use it for the people who prefer it. As a bonus you'll generally speak with less gender bias; win-win!
posted by SaltySalticid at 5:28 AM on October 19, 2023 [43 favorites]
Practice! Talk about them more. Either on your own, or find (nice respectful) reasons to talk about them with other people.
Get someone to prod you when you get it wrong.
Correct yourself when you get it wrong. Just repeat that bit of the sentence but with the correct pronoun. That's polite and it gives you more practice.
posted by quacks like a duck at 5:28 AM on October 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
Get someone to prod you when you get it wrong.
Correct yourself when you get it wrong. Just repeat that bit of the sentence but with the correct pronoun. That's polite and it gives you more practice.
posted by quacks like a duck at 5:28 AM on October 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
As you're puttering around your house doing whatever say a running list out loud of all the things you know about your friend.
"they have a quick sense of humor, they are kind to cats, they have that cool green sweater I'm jealous of, they wear glasses but only sometimes" etc
Nice things, mundane things, ways they annoy you, doesn't matter. Point is you'll be associating all the things you associate with them with the word they, so your brain will have more touch points for them with their pronouns.
posted by phunniemee at 5:32 AM on October 19, 2023 [17 favorites]
"they have a quick sense of humor, they are kind to cats, they have that cool green sweater I'm jealous of, they wear glasses but only sometimes" etc
Nice things, mundane things, ways they annoy you, doesn't matter. Point is you'll be associating all the things you associate with them with the word they, so your brain will have more touch points for them with their pronouns.
posted by phunniemee at 5:32 AM on October 19, 2023 [17 favorites]
They/them pronouns come naturally in English when we don’t know the person being referred to’s gender, (eg. ‘someone left their bag here, hopefully they will come back for it’). More important though is understanding that grammar isn’t set in stone and is evolving all the time, because language is a tool and it’s purpose is effective communication between people. You need to find a way to get over the ‘sounds weird to me grammatically’ thing, whether that’s practising a lot (for example you could assign a random object or a pet to use they/them pronouns when discussing so you get used to it) or making an effort to embrace the ‘weird’ness. At the end of the day ‘weirdness’ is a sign of nonconformity, which is part of what nonbinary people are about.
posted by chives at 5:45 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by chives at 5:45 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Practice. Also, it really helps to consciously use their pronoun (or similar) in your head when you think about them. You probably have a mental model of them stored in your brain already. Most likely their gender is an innate part of that mental model. So you need to transition the mental model before you can reliably use the right pronouns in conversation.
If part of the challenge is that you don't know anyone else who uses they/them pronouns, see if you can consumer media in which those pronouns are always correctly used. Offhand, Taskmaster series 15 with Mae Martin is a good example. The participants all use they/them for Martin without drawing any attention to it.
posted by plonkee at 5:46 AM on October 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
If part of the challenge is that you don't know anyone else who uses they/them pronouns, see if you can consumer media in which those pronouns are always correctly used. Offhand, Taskmaster series 15 with Mae Martin is a good example. The participants all use they/them for Martin without drawing any attention to it.
posted by plonkee at 5:46 AM on October 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
plus it's making me tense / unnatural when I talk to my friend
One thing that might also help is using second-person language (calling them "you") when actually talking to your friend to their face, rather than talking about them in the third person while they're present. It's definitely affirming when friends successfully talk about me in the third person using my preferred pronouns, but it's not tough or painful if they exclusively use "you" to my face to avoid using non-preferred pronouns for me accidentally.
It's been just over three years since I switched to using they/them pronouns professionally, and I still get called by pronouns I don't use way more often than I'm comfortable with (not yet having chosen to change my historically-gendered name is not helping at all here, but this stuff is hard & not linear), and I strongly believe the number of times I get mispronouned would be significantly reduced if my coworkers would just stop talking about me in the third person during a conversation I'm also part of. This approach doesn't help retrain your brain to the new pronouns, but it does prevent you from making avoidable pronouns errors in front of your friend.
The other advice in this thread is great btw, I was going to suggest the swarm of bees approach myself and was heartened to see it in the first comment here.
posted by terretu at 5:51 AM on October 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
One thing that might also help is using second-person language (calling them "you") when actually talking to your friend to their face, rather than talking about them in the third person while they're present. It's definitely affirming when friends successfully talk about me in the third person using my preferred pronouns, but it's not tough or painful if they exclusively use "you" to my face to avoid using non-preferred pronouns for me accidentally.
It's been just over three years since I switched to using they/them pronouns professionally, and I still get called by pronouns I don't use way more often than I'm comfortable with (not yet having chosen to change my historically-gendered name is not helping at all here, but this stuff is hard & not linear), and I strongly believe the number of times I get mispronouned would be significantly reduced if my coworkers would just stop talking about me in the third person during a conversation I'm also part of. This approach doesn't help retrain your brain to the new pronouns, but it does prevent you from making avoidable pronouns errors in front of your friend.
The other advice in this thread is great btw, I was going to suggest the swarm of bees approach myself and was heartened to see it in the first comment here.
posted by terretu at 5:51 AM on October 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
Like chives said, the "grammar" thing is just not true. If you were formally taught English, it's entirely possible you were scolded for using the singular they, but that happened because you would have picked it up organically from media and people around you--it's been in the language for centuries.
posted by hoyland at 5:52 AM on October 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by hoyland at 5:52 AM on October 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
Also, while the most common use of the singular they is for an unknown person, if you start paying attention, you'll find you use it for specific people who haven't been named in the conversation (eg "I was talking to one my students and they said..."--I know who I'm talking about and what pronouns they use, but even if the other person knows the student, they haven't been named yet, so it's still 'they'), and probably named people if the pronoun occurs far enough from the last reference to them. It's true that exclusively using they for a person is altering how you use 'they', but it's a much smaller change than people are conditioned to assume.
posted by hoyland at 6:03 AM on October 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by hoyland at 6:03 AM on October 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
First, it just takes time and a ton of repetition before a change in pronouns (or a change in name, etc.) starts feeling normal. You just have to kind of push through the awkwardness and laugh about the mistakes (there will be so many mistakes). Eventually you start thinking about it less and less, and then at some point it feels natural.
Second, something related that sometimes trips me up is when I'm talking about things in the past, when the person was gendered differently. So in the present I might say, "Let's go meet with Sarah today" and it feels normal, but if I am describing something that happened three years ago when I knew that person as "Todd," I get totally tripped up. Depending on the kinds of conversations you are having, this could be a component of the awkwardness.
All of that to say, you just have to do it, and do it, and do it, while being kind to yourself about imperfections. I blame how English is usually taught for the extra awkwardness that happens with "they" pronouns. I was certainly taught for years that the singular they is "wrong," despite it being a completely normal part of everyday language. ("The plumber is coming by later, can you please let them in?")
posted by Dip Flash at 6:10 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Second, something related that sometimes trips me up is when I'm talking about things in the past, when the person was gendered differently. So in the present I might say, "Let's go meet with Sarah today" and it feels normal, but if I am describing something that happened three years ago when I knew that person as "Todd," I get totally tripped up. Depending on the kinds of conversations you are having, this could be a component of the awkwardness.
All of that to say, you just have to do it, and do it, and do it, while being kind to yourself about imperfections. I blame how English is usually taught for the extra awkwardness that happens with "they" pronouns. I was certainly taught for years that the singular they is "wrong," despite it being a completely normal part of everyday language. ("The plumber is coming by later, can you please let them in?")
posted by Dip Flash at 6:10 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Agreed with all of the above, and adding: there is a great little book called The Quick and Easy Guide to They/Them Pronouns that's under $10.
posted by wicked_sassy at 6:24 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by wicked_sassy at 6:24 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
I have a kind of "mode" in which I switch to a variant of English where they/them is the usual default personal pronoun. I'm not thrilled with this approach and it doesn't always work. Also I unconsciously feel like I'm being "lazy" by speaking this way (maybe I used they/them a lot when I was a kid) and other substitutions creep in a lot in this mode which affect my clarity, unfortunately.
But oh wow I have to do this:
Metafilter: think of your friend as a swarm of bees
posted by amtho at 6:24 AM on October 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
But oh wow I have to do this:
Metafilter: think of your friend as a swarm of bees
posted by amtho at 6:24 AM on October 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
A trick that has helped me is putting the person’s preferred pronouns in their contact name on my phone so I see them next to their name when I am texting/calling them.
posted by rustcellar at 6:26 AM on October 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by rustcellar at 6:26 AM on October 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
Time does work, it's just perhaps a bit more time than you think. One of my daughter's friends changed their name at 16 or 17 and in the beginning I just couldn't get used to it. It took more than a year, I think, and not for my lack of trying. And then I met them in the park a month ago, and realized that I have actually forgotten the old name. Now they are who they want to be, in my mind too.
posted by mumimor at 6:56 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 6:56 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
I was carried
to Ohio by my they/them friend
And, uh, just so I don't get another one-line joke Ask comment deleted, I just want to add, keep practicing (talking about them to others while being as slow and awkward about saying the right pronoun as you need to be, telling little stories to yourself about them out loud, etc.), you'll get there, and the less emotional you can be about it, the better. I have no proof, but I don't think getting upset at yourself makes it easier to remember. And getting upset and flustered in front of your friend is just going to ramp up your anxiety for the next time.
So try to stay chill, practice, and correct yourself quickly and without drama when you goof up, and before you know it, you'll have it down pat.
posted by BrashTech at 7:02 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
to Ohio by my they/them friend
And, uh, just so I don't get another one-line joke Ask comment deleted, I just want to add, keep practicing (talking about them to others while being as slow and awkward about saying the right pronoun as you need to be, telling little stories to yourself about them out loud, etc.), you'll get there, and the less emotional you can be about it, the better. I have no proof, but I don't think getting upset at yourself makes it easier to remember. And getting upset and flustered in front of your friend is just going to ramp up your anxiety for the next time.
So try to stay chill, practice, and correct yourself quickly and without drama when you goof up, and before you know it, you'll have it down pat.
posted by BrashTech at 7:02 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yes to practice. Talk about them to yourself, out loud. Write sentences about them to yourself. Their wrong pronouns might pop into your brain sometimes. There are automatic processes there that your brain is running based on old information. Correct internally and keep it moving, and do the practice piece enough that the new information starts to build up and get established more strongly.
I can't tell from your question, but if part of what's happening is that you're trying to be supportive but don't really register/haven't internalized the meaning underneath the pronouns, the slipups can be a reflection of that. I use they/them pronouns and can feel the difference when someone hasn't adjusted their actual mental model of who I am and what my gender is and is not. It could be that upping your exposure to trans inc. nonbinary people in writing, television, and other media would be helpful in creating space in your mental landscape for different people's gender realities. It could also be that some intentional work around really sitting with what you now know about your friend beyond the merely linguistic is what's called for. It's harder to get at when it's not part of your lived experience but it can be done and it's clearly something you care about your friend enough to work on, which is great.
posted by wormtales at 7:02 AM on October 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
I can't tell from your question, but if part of what's happening is that you're trying to be supportive but don't really register/haven't internalized the meaning underneath the pronouns, the slipups can be a reflection of that. I use they/them pronouns and can feel the difference when someone hasn't adjusted their actual mental model of who I am and what my gender is and is not. It could be that upping your exposure to trans inc. nonbinary people in writing, television, and other media would be helpful in creating space in your mental landscape for different people's gender realities. It could also be that some intentional work around really sitting with what you now know about your friend beyond the merely linguistic is what's called for. It's harder to get at when it's not part of your lived experience but it can be done and it's clearly something you care about your friend enough to work on, which is great.
posted by wormtales at 7:02 AM on October 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
anonymous: I think it has to do with a combination of the plural sounding weird to me grammatically
Well, it just does. For me it's not the "they / them" that bothers me but the pluralness of saying things like "they are awesome" when talking about one person. I would much rather treat the so-called singular they like a real singular form, and say "they is awesome". It does feel weird to me to switch from 'is' to 'are' when saying things like 'This is Lisa, they are a carpenter'.
So for me it's a language thing. But what helps me get over that is to first acknowledge that yes, it sounds weird, and then just to do it. Everything sounds weird until we are used to it. It's fine. Just do it anyway.
And practice, as mentioned above. It's a kindness, it's common courtesy, it's a totally doable way to avoid hurting someone. You and me, we can both learn this.
And in the meantime, it would also be fine to use constructions like 'This is Lisa, who is a carpenter', 'This is Lisa. Lisa is a carpenter' and 'This is Lisa, the carpenter'.
posted by Too-Ticky at 7:07 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Well, it just does. For me it's not the "they / them" that bothers me but the pluralness of saying things like "they are awesome" when talking about one person. I would much rather treat the so-called singular they like a real singular form, and say "they is awesome". It does feel weird to me to switch from 'is' to 'are' when saying things like 'This is Lisa, they are a carpenter'.
So for me it's a language thing. But what helps me get over that is to first acknowledge that yes, it sounds weird, and then just to do it. Everything sounds weird until we are used to it. It's fine. Just do it anyway.
And practice, as mentioned above. It's a kindness, it's common courtesy, it's a totally doable way to avoid hurting someone. You and me, we can both learn this.
And in the meantime, it would also be fine to use constructions like 'This is Lisa, who is a carpenter', 'This is Lisa. Lisa is a carpenter' and 'This is Lisa, the carpenter'.
posted by Too-Ticky at 7:07 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
All of the above but there's also a cute little practice site called Practice with Pronouns to get the ball rolling.
posted by wintersweet at 7:08 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by wintersweet at 7:08 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
The linguist Kirby Conrod has some nice tips here and here, with bonus content about why this is hard.
posted by damayanti at 7:09 AM on October 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by damayanti at 7:09 AM on October 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
Putting my hand up for practice as well, even just in talking aloud to yourself when you're doing other things.
Something that has helped me is also viewing they/them as a sort of default pronoun pair. So in my mind I think of everyone as they until another pronoun is confirmed, even if the assumption based on how they present seems clear.
Another way is using their name instead of a pronoun when speaking about them. E.g.: We're going to DJ's house. DJ asked me to say "hi" to you all. etc. That just lessens the number of times you might have to slip up.
Also, practice fixing a slip up! The oops > quick apology > correction > move along. Because you will mess up, and making that moment quick and affirming rather than prolonged and awkward will go a long way.
Don't be too hard on yourself, and good for you for putting in the effort. It's hard to make new pathways in our brains, and you're really working at it. So you will get there.
posted by eekernohan at 7:14 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Something that has helped me is also viewing they/them as a sort of default pronoun pair. So in my mind I think of everyone as they until another pronoun is confirmed, even if the assumption based on how they present seems clear.
Another way is using their name instead of a pronoun when speaking about them. E.g.: We're going to DJ's house. DJ asked me to say "hi" to you all. etc. That just lessens the number of times you might have to slip up.
Also, practice fixing a slip up! The oops > quick apology > correction > move along. Because you will mess up, and making that moment quick and affirming rather than prolonged and awkward will go a long way.
Don't be too hard on yourself, and good for you for putting in the effort. It's hard to make new pathways in our brains, and you're really working at it. So you will get there.
posted by eekernohan at 7:14 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
(Keep in mind if your tongue catches on things like "they are" that you've been saying "you are" to individuals your entire life. It feels natural instead of "weird" not because it's grammatically logical but because you've done it your whole life. I can explain the history of how English wound up Like This but that doesn't change the fact that the so-called standard/privileged varieties of American and British English address one person as "you are" and not "you is." That knowledge doesn't instantly make they-as-third-person-singular acquire a lifetime of familiarity, of course; I just want to point it out.)
(Grammar doesn't have logic; it has patterns and history.)
posted by wintersweet at 7:16 AM on October 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
(Grammar doesn't have logic; it has patterns and history.)
posted by wintersweet at 7:16 AM on October 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
Get The Pronouns Song stuck in your head! Not a joke, it's very catchy, but it also has instructions on how to get used to someone's pronouns.
Also try to give yourself some grace. I promise most trans people are very aware of the difference between "brains are weird" and "this person is being an asshole to me". Anxiety over it isn't going to help make it better.
And like others have said, it helps a ton to switch your default to they/them. So that when you're just generally talking, you're saying, "So I asked the manager if they knew whether any of the other stores had my toothpaste in stock, and they checked the inventory system and sent me to the South St. store." It will retrain your brain/ear to hear that as natural.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:29 AM on October 19, 2023
Also try to give yourself some grace. I promise most trans people are very aware of the difference between "brains are weird" and "this person is being an asshole to me". Anxiety over it isn't going to help make it better.
And like others have said, it helps a ton to switch your default to they/them. So that when you're just generally talking, you're saying, "So I asked the manager if they knew whether any of the other stores had my toothpaste in stock, and they checked the inventory system and sent me to the South St. store." It will retrain your brain/ear to hear that as natural.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:29 AM on October 19, 2023
It's also okay to tell your friend, "Hey, I love you and I hate that I keep screwing up your pronouns, I promise this is a neuro-lingual problem and not a lack of acceptance. Brains are weird."
posted by Lyn Never at 7:31 AM on October 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Lyn Never at 7:31 AM on October 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
I hope this is not off topic. How are you referring to your friend with pronouns to their face? We don't say, Hey He/She/They how are you? We say Hey you how are you? Or, hey Name how are you?
Is this is about referring to them in third person in front of them - to restaurant server: He/She and I will share the appetizer, perhaps try internalizing that you call people by their name in front of them instead of he/she which is what I was told was respectful as a child: refer to people in front of them as their name, not pronouns (I have no idea why?, mom was to be called Mom not she for example). Try: My friend and I will share the appetizer. Name and I will share the appetizer. We will share the appetizer.
posted by RoadScholar at 7:55 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Is this is about referring to them in third person in front of them - to restaurant server: He/She and I will share the appetizer, perhaps try internalizing that you call people by their name in front of them instead of he/she which is what I was told was respectful as a child: refer to people in front of them as their name, not pronouns (I have no idea why?, mom was to be called Mom not she for example). Try: My friend and I will share the appetizer. Name and I will share the appetizer. We will share the appetizer.
posted by RoadScholar at 7:55 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
My new therapist uses they/them pronouns but is what we would call traditionally male presenting in appearance, and I have been struggling with this myself, to the point of having to immediately apologize in person to them during a session. What's been helping me is practicing talking about them with my husband and also self-talk on my way to the sessions in my car -- reminding myself that they use these pronouns and it helps my brain recalibrate for the immediateness of being in the room with them and what my brain has been taught to perceive as a man by appearance.
posted by archimago at 8:24 AM on October 19, 2023
posted by archimago at 8:24 AM on October 19, 2023
Getting increasingly anxious about it probably makes it more awkward or fraught when you mess up. Practice + finding a quick and graceful way to correct yourself in the moment (whether your friend is there or not) is going to be useful. It's not fun to have someone misgender you then suddenly stammer and melt down and make the moment all about them, or ask if it's okay.
"Oh (misgendering) wants to - sorry, they want to..." - I'd SO much better prefer someone fucking up and then correcting themselves than folks not trying at all. Or doing it for a little while and then dropping out of the practice.
And it's not too late in a conversation to correct yourself - say you misgendered someone in the first line of a conversation, but then realize after a few more lines ----- make a point at that moment to use the correct pronouns so they see you realize what you did and are correcting yourself. eg (several lines in) ".... oh, Third Person in this Conversation, are you doing something for Halloween? (gestures at second friend) Name has an awesome idea for a costume they're making, it's...."
Also, it's your friend's right to feel however they feel about how you treat them.
Gendering someone correctly goes beyond being polite - it's a very powerful signal that you care about them and want to make them feel safe. Especially right now, when things are legit dire and legit scary, having to correct your friends and family about this is like having to speak up and remind them that you're a person. Watching said same people (who are supposed to take care of you) continue to misgender you or start apologizing then talking about how hard it is grammatically to adjust feels awful, personally. Like "you know what also feels awful? You feeling like somehow I'd be here to comfort you about how hard you're finding it to treat me well, or act like this matters."
posted by Geameade at 8:37 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
"Oh (misgendering) wants to - sorry, they want to..." - I'd SO much better prefer someone fucking up and then correcting themselves than folks not trying at all. Or doing it for a little while and then dropping out of the practice.
And it's not too late in a conversation to correct yourself - say you misgendered someone in the first line of a conversation, but then realize after a few more lines ----- make a point at that moment to use the correct pronouns so they see you realize what you did and are correcting yourself. eg (several lines in) ".... oh, Third Person in this Conversation, are you doing something for Halloween? (gestures at second friend) Name has an awesome idea for a costume they're making, it's...."
Also, it's your friend's right to feel however they feel about how you treat them.
Gendering someone correctly goes beyond being polite - it's a very powerful signal that you care about them and want to make them feel safe. Especially right now, when things are legit dire and legit scary, having to correct your friends and family about this is like having to speak up and remind them that you're a person. Watching said same people (who are supposed to take care of you) continue to misgender you or start apologizing then talking about how hard it is grammatically to adjust feels awful, personally. Like "you know what also feels awful? You feeling like somehow I'd be here to comfort you about how hard you're finding it to treat me well, or act like this matters."
posted by Geameade at 8:37 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
My oldest friend uses they/them pronouns and I felt it didn't really stick until I sorta rewrote my memories of them with their new presentation. Weird but true. I had to pull up all these significant moments together and, like, edit a much more masc person into them. At this point it feels totally natural though.
posted by potrzebie at 9:11 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 9:11 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
I wanted to add a counterpoint about using first names instead of pronouns. Some people may be fine with this, but it can quickly sound pretty stilted and obvious in conversation that you're trying to avoid using pronouns. "My friend Carol went to the store, and I asked Carol if Carol could get some chips." It can end up sounding like you're so uncomfortable with their pronouns that you'd rather insert something even more uncomfortable. Which again, some people might be fine with, so you can always ask! But if they prefer that you use pronouns, they would probably prefer that you do it, even if you get them wrong, and correct yourself right away.
posted by nakedmolerats at 9:13 AM on October 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by nakedmolerats at 9:13 AM on October 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
Seconding the comment from nakedmolerats. A few years ago, I had a colleague who was so uncomfortable with my pronouns (which are they/them) that she used my name instead, and it made things awkward in the exact way that nakedmolerats describes. For example: "Wicked_sassy and I worked on this data table and then wicked_sassy did this part of the table and then wicked_sassy sent an email regarding next steps" is unnecessarily more cumbersome than "Wicked_sassy and I worked on this data table, and then they did this part of the table and sent an email regarding next steps." She also clearly did not practice using my pronouns, got very flustered when she misgendered me, and was over-apologetic when she did, which made me feel like she wanted me to comfort her. (I did not.)
posted by wicked_sassy at 10:30 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by wicked_sassy at 10:30 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
I consciously stopped using pronouns for them at all. "This is Lisa, Lisa is a programmer."
The cognitive jolt caused every time I would have used a pronoun very quickly got me to where I needed to be — consciously choosing how I referred to them in sentences. The downside is that it was an awkward exercise, the upside is that I never misgendered them and within about a week I was reliably using the new pronouns.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:56 PM on October 19, 2023
The cognitive jolt caused every time I would have used a pronoun very quickly got me to where I needed to be — consciously choosing how I referred to them in sentences. The downside is that it was an awkward exercise, the upside is that I never misgendered them and within about a week I was reliably using the new pronouns.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:56 PM on October 19, 2023
In addition to practicing, if a solid sense of historical moral outrage helps you remember things, you should know that they was happily also singular until the 18th century grammarian prescriptivists declared it plural-only and mandated, effectively by decree, that "he" was the only acceptable universal singular pronoun. While this rule is the direct result of the fetishization of Latin as a model for proper English grammar, choosing "he" as the universal default stems from straight-up misogyny.
On the queasy grammar feeling, it can be helpful to note that nobody has any weird feelings using the plural verb in "you are amazing" whether you're saying it to your date or to an entire crowd of people -- "you" quietly is either singular or plural based on context but always connects to a plural verb.
Finally, there's the uncomfortable fact that "I'm a bit of a serious grammarian" is almost always code for "I over-internalized rules my sixth-grade teacher thought were important" and actual academic linguistics researchers almost universally hold far more nuanced positions than the kind of thing you can easily mark right or wrong on an elementary-school exam.
posted by range at 6:11 PM on October 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
On the queasy grammar feeling, it can be helpful to note that nobody has any weird feelings using the plural verb in "you are amazing" whether you're saying it to your date or to an entire crowd of people -- "you" quietly is either singular or plural based on context but always connects to a plural verb.
Finally, there's the uncomfortable fact that "I'm a bit of a serious grammarian" is almost always code for "I over-internalized rules my sixth-grade teacher thought were important" and actual academic linguistics researchers almost universally hold far more nuanced positions than the kind of thing you can easily mark right or wrong on an elementary-school exam.
posted by range at 6:11 PM on October 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
Also my spouse, who tracked down those links so I could rant with proper citations, recommends this site for practice: practicewithpronouns.com
posted by range at 6:19 PM on October 19, 2023
posted by range at 6:19 PM on October 19, 2023
I would much rather treat the so-called singular they like a real singular form, and say "they is awesome". It does feel weird to me to switch from 'is' to 'are' when saying things like 'This is Lisa, they are a carpenter'.
But this isn't unusual at all in standard English.
"If anybody is listening to our conversation right now, they are probably scandalized."
"Our process is that the customer waits in line, and then they walk up to the window when called."
I'm not saying you don't feel that way, but that the grammar thing you're describing isn't really a thing.
posted by dusty potato at 6:59 PM on October 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
But this isn't unusual at all in standard English.
"If anybody is listening to our conversation right now, they are probably scandalized."
"Our process is that the customer waits in line, and then they walk up to the window when called."
I'm not saying you don't feel that way, but that the grammar thing you're describing isn't really a thing.
posted by dusty potato at 6:59 PM on October 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
Practice. I talk about my friend to the dog, taking time, and being cautious about pronouns. It's help me change the habit of using the old pronouns.
posted by theora55 at 7:27 PM on October 19, 2023
posted by theora55 at 7:27 PM on October 19, 2023
Coming in to nth that referring to someone by their name instead of their pronouns - unless you explicitly know "names only" is their preference - is very much not the way to go. I'm another person who uses they/them pronouns, and I have one coworker who thinks they're being slick by only ever using my name in certain circumstances, and it fucking SUCKS. It is VERY noticeable to the person in question, and now I've got the burden of trying to figure out how to broach the subject with this person to make it clear they're not as subtle as they think they are, and (in my situation) I'm already taking data on when they're doing this in case things continue after I've tried to handle it on my own and I need to file a complaint with HR ... I just don't fucking need that in my life. And as I type this I will say this is me constraining my anger and hurt over this subject - the person referring to me by name-only is doing a lot more damage than you're seeing here in this response. Please don't do that to your friend. If you are another person reading this thread, please don't think that name-only is working for you.
Nthing that practice is the only answer. Practice every day, across multiple settings. Start with scripted sentences if you have to, and read them again and again until they sound normal. Try imagining situations where you'd refer to your person in 3rd person and try ad-libbing what you'd say. Talk to your dog, your stuffie, your imaginary friend about this person - just keep practicing.
Gonna stop here, because this subject very much activates some hurt and angry parts of me. Bottom line, keep practicing because it truly is on you to make your words help and not hurt.
posted by DingoMutt at 8:31 PM on October 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
Nthing that practice is the only answer. Practice every day, across multiple settings. Start with scripted sentences if you have to, and read them again and again until they sound normal. Try imagining situations where you'd refer to your person in 3rd person and try ad-libbing what you'd say. Talk to your dog, your stuffie, your imaginary friend about this person - just keep practicing.
Gonna stop here, because this subject very much activates some hurt and angry parts of me. Bottom line, keep practicing because it truly is on you to make your words help and not hurt.
posted by DingoMutt at 8:31 PM on October 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
First: Practice talking about them out loud to folks, out of their presence. That way you get reps in saying it out loud, wihout the shame of fucking up.
Second: if you do slip up, just apologize quickly and easily, and move on. Making a big deal out of it will make the flub stick out more in your mind and be more likely to occur. Don't let your brain bring attention or over focus on your mistakes.
Third: if you're my brain, make sure to have a lot of stress dreams in which you misgender your friend to disasterous results and spend most of the dream interally repeating "they them" to yourself so you're sure you're practiicng both in your waking and sleeping hours.
posted by Grandysaur at 9:21 PM on October 19, 2023
Second: if you do slip up, just apologize quickly and easily, and move on. Making a big deal out of it will make the flub stick out more in your mind and be more likely to occur. Don't let your brain bring attention or over focus on your mistakes.
Third: if you're my brain, make sure to have a lot of stress dreams in which you misgender your friend to disasterous results and spend most of the dream interally repeating "they them" to yourself so you're sure you're practiicng both in your waking and sleeping hours.
posted by Grandysaur at 9:21 PM on October 19, 2023
Lots of good advice above, so I’ll go on a slight tangent and say that watching the Strange Planet TV show is a great way to get used to hearing and processing they/them pronouns being used consistently in general conversation. Plus it’s a good show.
posted by matildaben at 9:24 PM on October 19, 2023
posted by matildaben at 9:24 PM on October 19, 2023
I just want to affirm that, yes, it’s hard to learns new pronouns for a friend. It’s harder, in my experience, the closer the relationship. Learning new pronouns for professional acquaintances is easy; doing the same for someone who was in my wedding has taken years, because those grooves on my brain are real deep. I rarely misgender my friends when speaking to other friends, but when talking to my spouse I default to the ones I learned when I first met them. I just correct myself out loud and move on.
posted by Just the one swan, actually at 10:50 PM on October 19, 2023
posted by Just the one swan, actually at 10:50 PM on October 19, 2023
Practice when your friend is not present.
1. Say out loud when you are alone "Jane is my friend. They like sushi and KPOP and playing roller derby. They have been very patient with me."
2. Always use they when talking about your friend to other people, even though your friend is not present. If you get it wrong, immediately stop and correct yourself, "I mean they," every single time.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 1:33 AM on October 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
1. Say out loud when you are alone "Jane is my friend. They like sushi and KPOP and playing roller derby. They have been very patient with me."
2. Always use they when talking about your friend to other people, even though your friend is not present. If you get it wrong, immediately stop and correct yourself, "I mean they," every single time.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 1:33 AM on October 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Coming in to nth that referring to someone by their name instead of their pronouns - unless you explicitly know "names only" is their preference - is very much not the way to go.
It's a terrible long term practice, but I found it an extremely effective short term training tool and an excellent way to avoid misgendering the person while I picked up the hang of the new pronouns. If it makes you feel better you can not do it when the person is present and screw up their pronouns to their face instead.
Any way you look at it learning to use new pronouns is going to involve awkward moments. IMHO the faster you can make the transition the better.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:50 AM on October 20, 2023
It's a terrible long term practice, but I found it an extremely effective short term training tool and an excellent way to avoid misgendering the person while I picked up the hang of the new pronouns. If it makes you feel better you can not do it when the person is present and screw up their pronouns to their face instead.
Any way you look at it learning to use new pronouns is going to involve awkward moments. IMHO the faster you can make the transition the better.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:50 AM on October 20, 2023
On a previous similar thread on here, aubilenon made a useful suggestion that I think about a lot: when you do screw up, start the sentence over with the correct pronouns instead of just saying "sorry, I meant they." It helps reinforce the right pronouns in context, and it makes the thing you were saying the focus of the conversation instead of the mistake.
posted by babelfish at 8:46 PM on October 21, 2023
posted by babelfish at 8:46 PM on October 21, 2023
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(I have the same problem, and it seems most consistently triggered by people with names I have strongly gendered. Haven't figured out a fabulous hack for that one other than practice.)
posted by restless_nomad at 5:27 AM on October 19, 2023 [11 favorites]