You’re no longer ruled by negative self-talk.
October 19, 2023 6:08 PM
How’d you do it?
The stories you unconsciously told yourself over and over, about yourself, about the life around you and the ones in the past, about the [lack of] possibilities in the future ahead. The old tapes that would play constantly without noticing you’re the one who keeps pressing Play. All the ways that this self-talk didn’t serve you, how it limited your horizon, how it kept you stuck in the same patterns, how it kept so much of life from you.
How did you get from there, to where you are now?
And … why did you make that change?
The stories you unconsciously told yourself over and over, about yourself, about the life around you and the ones in the past, about the [lack of] possibilities in the future ahead. The old tapes that would play constantly without noticing you’re the one who keeps pressing Play. All the ways that this self-talk didn’t serve you, how it limited your horizon, how it kept you stuck in the same patterns, how it kept so much of life from you.
How did you get from there, to where you are now?
And … why did you make that change?
I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I trained myself with a rubber band around my wrist. I snapped it every time I caught myself using that critical inner voice. Jay Smooth calls the voice "the little hater." I had to learn to shut off the negative self talk because my kids were learning my habits of speech and mannerism. I couldn't let them grow up with the same debilitatingly critical inner monologue as I did.
Did it work? I would characterize my results as mixed. I'm glad to see that my children don't have to fight the little hater as hard as I did.
posted by S'Tella Fabula at 6:44 PM on October 19, 2023
Did it work? I would characterize my results as mixed. I'm glad to see that my children don't have to fight the little hater as hard as I did.
posted by S'Tella Fabula at 6:44 PM on October 19, 2023
I listened to Pema Chodron's Getting Unstuck repeatedly (maybe over the course of about a year).
My old way of coping with the ups and downs of life just wasn't working anymore -- I knew I had to make some sort of change, and undoing the stories I told myself in my head seemed to be at the heart of it. Ten years or so on, it seems to have worked quite well -- I feel generally happier and more at ease with myself, and feel like I coped a lot better with the past several years than I would have otherwise.
posted by paper scissors sock at 7:02 PM on October 19, 2023
My old way of coping with the ups and downs of life just wasn't working anymore -- I knew I had to make some sort of change, and undoing the stories I told myself in my head seemed to be at the heart of it. Ten years or so on, it seems to have worked quite well -- I feel generally happier and more at ease with myself, and feel like I coped a lot better with the past several years than I would have otherwise.
posted by paper scissors sock at 7:02 PM on October 19, 2023
Sorry to give the most boring possible answer, but my negative self talk is down to probably 5% of what it used to be, and I think the proximate causes are therapy and medication.
I'm not on meds anymore, but I think being on meds helped interrupt the lazy habit of negative self-talk...that thing where I was so used to the negative self-talk that it had worn a groove inside my brain and I would instantly slip into that groove when even a small thing went wrong.
With therapy, I think I needed the right mix of being encouraged to be gentler and kinder and softer toward myself... and also just a little bit of tough love - which is the understanding that negative self-talk is a momentary outlet for my frustration that does nothing to fix the thing I'm frustrated about. I feel like I'm doing something useful, because I feel shitty about myself, but actually, that makes no sense at all! So the way I tend to respond to negative self-talk now isn't to disagree with it or to affirm myself, it's to say, "Emily, you could stand there calling yourself an idiot because the kitchen cabinet shelf tipped over and two mugs smashed on the floor, or maybe you could stop calling yourself an idiot and just get a broom!?"
(My most recent therapist, and one of the more useful ones I've encountered, was a very practically-minded ACT therapist, and that's definitely a modality I like, but lots of modalities can be useful if you find the right person.)
posted by Jeanne at 7:11 PM on October 19, 2023
I'm not on meds anymore, but I think being on meds helped interrupt the lazy habit of negative self-talk...that thing where I was so used to the negative self-talk that it had worn a groove inside my brain and I would instantly slip into that groove when even a small thing went wrong.
With therapy, I think I needed the right mix of being encouraged to be gentler and kinder and softer toward myself... and also just a little bit of tough love - which is the understanding that negative self-talk is a momentary outlet for my frustration that does nothing to fix the thing I'm frustrated about. I feel like I'm doing something useful, because I feel shitty about myself, but actually, that makes no sense at all! So the way I tend to respond to negative self-talk now isn't to disagree with it or to affirm myself, it's to say, "Emily, you could stand there calling yourself an idiot because the kitchen cabinet shelf tipped over and two mugs smashed on the floor, or maybe you could stop calling yourself an idiot and just get a broom!?"
(My most recent therapist, and one of the more useful ones I've encountered, was a very practically-minded ACT therapist, and that's definitely a modality I like, but lots of modalities can be useful if you find the right person.)
posted by Jeanne at 7:11 PM on October 19, 2023
I realized it wasn’t “my” story but one of my parent’s story that I had ingested. Like, it was some other character inside my mind generating thoughts, trying to curve-fit the facts of my life into the narrative it wanted to tell itself so that it could stay angry and stuck.
Put another way, I stopped identifying with that cluster of thought patterns.
See also, internal family systems therapy.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:47 PM on October 19, 2023
Put another way, I stopped identifying with that cluster of thought patterns.
See also, internal family systems therapy.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:47 PM on October 19, 2023
(And how did I come to that realization? One day I was so mad, having just the worst morning, the thoughts were just growing louder and louder until it was screaming in my head and then suddenly I had another thought: “who the hell is screaming in here?” That’s it, that was the turning point.)
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:50 PM on October 19, 2023
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:50 PM on October 19, 2023
Sometimes, it's just a matter of having... a epiphany and realize you've actually hit bottom and the rest is your way up. And sometimes, you get that by simply having a great night's sleep and not worry about anything.
In my case, it was helped by a new CPAP machine.
posted by kschang at 8:18 PM on October 19, 2023
In my case, it was helped by a new CPAP machine.
posted by kschang at 8:18 PM on October 19, 2023
To add more prescriptive details on how I did it - like, you need to have a perspective separate from the current cluster of thoughts so you can look back on the first cluster of thoughts and see how mistaken they are. If you don’t have this second vantage point, then it’s the thoughts fighting with themselves all the time, debating their logic, catching and training yourself out of them and so on. But not really seeing that the cluster itself is an unhealed subpersonality just running its program, but not capital Y “You”.
One method to develop this second vantage point is Mahamudra meditation. Of which Loch Kelly has some good audio books to guide you. (I also wrote a huge metafilter FPP about it and other meditations.) here’s an example guide.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:33 PM on October 19, 2023
One method to develop this second vantage point is Mahamudra meditation. Of which Loch Kelly has some good audio books to guide you. (I also wrote a huge metafilter FPP about it and other meditations.) here’s an example guide.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:33 PM on October 19, 2023
Oh! Byron Katie’s Four questions, to get to the “emotional truth” you’re hanging on to:
1. Is it true?
2. Can you absolutely know that it's true?
3. How do you react, what happens, when you believe that thought?
4. Who would you be without the thought?
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:39 PM on October 19, 2023
1. Is it true?
2. Can you absolutely know that it's true?
3. How do you react, what happens, when you believe that thought?
4. Who would you be without the thought?
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:39 PM on October 19, 2023
I have *reduced* the intensity of negative self talk and learned to manage it better, but it still happens. I suspect that is true for a lot of people, that you can't necessarily get rid of it, but it has less power.
As st Peepsburg describes, it's necessary to develop a perspective that's seperate from the self talk, but not entangled with it in argument or judgement as that just gives it more power.
I do this:
I think of myself as a scientist, dispassionately interested in this phenomenon.
I decide on a simple, easy to remember, non judgemental label for the thoughts I find harmful. For example "spiking" or "ruminating".
Whenever I become aware of negative self talk, I just note it, without judgement, and also note my context, and my body's needs. Am I hungry? Am I tired? Can I do something about being hungry or tired?
I know that the self talk will recur, but that's OK, I'm not trying to force it to stop, just directing myself onto a new path.
Knowing that rumination and intrusive thoughts are part of ADHD and Autism has also helped me accept that they're not something I can get rid of, but they are something I can manage without shame.
A spike in rumination and self talk is also a sign that something is wrong with my physical and mental health and needs attention, which might include therapy, meds, exercise, etc, but always means working on self compassion, patience and kindness.
posted by Zumbador at 9:34 PM on October 19, 2023
As st Peepsburg describes, it's necessary to develop a perspective that's seperate from the self talk, but not entangled with it in argument or judgement as that just gives it more power.
I do this:
I think of myself as a scientist, dispassionately interested in this phenomenon.
I decide on a simple, easy to remember, non judgemental label for the thoughts I find harmful. For example "spiking" or "ruminating".
Whenever I become aware of negative self talk, I just note it, without judgement, and also note my context, and my body's needs. Am I hungry? Am I tired? Can I do something about being hungry or tired?
I know that the self talk will recur, but that's OK, I'm not trying to force it to stop, just directing myself onto a new path.
Knowing that rumination and intrusive thoughts are part of ADHD and Autism has also helped me accept that they're not something I can get rid of, but they are something I can manage without shame.
A spike in rumination and self talk is also a sign that something is wrong with my physical and mental health and needs attention, which might include therapy, meds, exercise, etc, but always means working on self compassion, patience and kindness.
posted by Zumbador at 9:34 PM on October 19, 2023
Why did I make the change? My life was getting so rough that it was hard to avoid it - I needed help, and that led me to a therapist, and that led me to even realizing that what I was experiencing was a negative self-talk, rather than just living in a negative universe.
As for how I got rid of the negative self-talk, it didn't go away entirely, but for me it was two things:
1) pressing play on enough other tapes, on other ideas and voices that I knew, "rationally", were true - that there were things in life I had, at least at some point, enjoyed, or could be proud of, and that there is always, technically, at least the possibility of somethin hopeful
2) counter-intuitively, stopping to listen to the voice that was doing the negative self-talk, to treat it like a character who has a perspective of some sort that I didn't need to treat as correct, but might represent a part of me that needs to be listened to that feels ignored.
For example, the negative self-talk can really come out when I'm stressed. I used to just try to shut the voice out; but now I listen to it, because it often turns out that after initially just damning and insulting me, the voice talks about how tired it is of being under stress, and of having to do too much, and it seems to feel better once I register that exhaustion. Whether I truly agree, I don't know - sometimes it faults me for taking something on that I still ultimately feel glad that I tried. But at least once I listen, I know that some part of me feels like I'm overextending myself, and if I can do that and listen to the part that acknowledges that but still disagrees, I feel pretty integrated...
Don't know if this helps. Wishing you luck, with your tapes, old and new. It sounds like you have a large capacity for introspection, which I think is definitely better than the alternative.
posted by nightcoast at 9:55 PM on October 19, 2023
As for how I got rid of the negative self-talk, it didn't go away entirely, but for me it was two things:
1) pressing play on enough other tapes, on other ideas and voices that I knew, "rationally", were true - that there were things in life I had, at least at some point, enjoyed, or could be proud of, and that there is always, technically, at least the possibility of somethin hopeful
2) counter-intuitively, stopping to listen to the voice that was doing the negative self-talk, to treat it like a character who has a perspective of some sort that I didn't need to treat as correct, but might represent a part of me that needs to be listened to that feels ignored.
For example, the negative self-talk can really come out when I'm stressed. I used to just try to shut the voice out; but now I listen to it, because it often turns out that after initially just damning and insulting me, the voice talks about how tired it is of being under stress, and of having to do too much, and it seems to feel better once I register that exhaustion. Whether I truly agree, I don't know - sometimes it faults me for taking something on that I still ultimately feel glad that I tried. But at least once I listen, I know that some part of me feels like I'm overextending myself, and if I can do that and listen to the part that acknowledges that but still disagrees, I feel pretty integrated...
Don't know if this helps. Wishing you luck, with your tapes, old and new. It sounds like you have a large capacity for introspection, which I think is definitely better than the alternative.
posted by nightcoast at 9:55 PM on October 19, 2023
Noticing that my critic is at the wheel is the first step, and I will get into a spiral if I haven’t even noticed that it’s taken over. Noticing happens earlier and more consistently with meditation and therapy, in my case.
I ask myself, what would a kind friend say to you? And I try to listen to the answer and try not to get too defensive. Be compassionate to that voice sometimes, recognizing it for protecting me and acknowledging that things are scary. Trying to be less in my head and more in my body. ymmv.
Depression and anxiety triggered some of the process of getting help from time to time, but in healthier times, it was more of ennui, feeling numb, and unfulfilled in my life. I had lots of creative project ideas but it was hard for me to start to work on them. Negative self talk and lack of self love still comes up for me a lot, so I’m not magically healed or anything, but it’s been a little quieter. Things going awry feel a little less dramatic and those moments feel shorter. I’ve started some creative personal projects recently.
posted by sincerely yours at 2:34 AM on October 20, 2023
I ask myself, what would a kind friend say to you? And I try to listen to the answer and try not to get too defensive. Be compassionate to that voice sometimes, recognizing it for protecting me and acknowledging that things are scary. Trying to be less in my head and more in my body. ymmv.
Depression and anxiety triggered some of the process of getting help from time to time, but in healthier times, it was more of ennui, feeling numb, and unfulfilled in my life. I had lots of creative project ideas but it was hard for me to start to work on them. Negative self talk and lack of self love still comes up for me a lot, so I’m not magically healed or anything, but it’s been a little quieter. Things going awry feel a little less dramatic and those moments feel shorter. I’ve started some creative personal projects recently.
posted by sincerely yours at 2:34 AM on October 20, 2023
I'm not there yet, but I do it a lot less than I used to. I consciously tell myself to stop when I notice I'm doing it, and if possible, immediately find a podcast / audiobook / radio play / TV show to present my brain with a more interesting narrative to listen to.
I don't know if that's a healthy coping strategy, but it's certainly more pleasant for me than constant negative spirals.
Why make the change? Because torturing myself is deeply unpleasant. That aside, I'd really like to get back to being someone who lives rather than just existing, and for some reason, constantly telling myself how useless and awful I am doesn't seem to be doing the trick.
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 5:02 AM on October 20, 2023
I don't know if that's a healthy coping strategy, but it's certainly more pleasant for me than constant negative spirals.
Why make the change? Because torturing myself is deeply unpleasant. That aside, I'd really like to get back to being someone who lives rather than just existing, and for some reason, constantly telling myself how useless and awful I am doesn't seem to be doing the trick.
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 5:02 AM on October 20, 2023
Actively pursuing strategies to improve my physical health gives me greater resiliency when I start sliding in the wrong direction.
Focusing on doing things I enjoy doing, not what others think I should be doing. Challenging, but actually asking things like "am I enjoying what I'm doing right now" on a day off has been immensely helpful.
To be frank, seeing people I love die and realizing that, yes, Virginia, time actually does pass -- that was important. Stressful, too, but it helped me to focus on the fact that the past is the past, and I'm not going to live forever. I'd rather do things I want to do/enjoy doing than things I don't, so...
posted by cupcakeninja at 5:38 AM on October 20, 2023
Focusing on doing things I enjoy doing, not what others think I should be doing. Challenging, but actually asking things like "am I enjoying what I'm doing right now" on a day off has been immensely helpful.
To be frank, seeing people I love die and realizing that, yes, Virginia, time actually does pass -- that was important. Stressful, too, but it helped me to focus on the fact that the past is the past, and I'm not going to live forever. I'd rather do things I want to do/enjoy doing than things I don't, so...
posted by cupcakeninja at 5:38 AM on October 20, 2023
Lots of really good advice here already. Recognising the thought was not the truest deepest version of me, but just a habit I’d got in that wasn’t serving me was an important step in the beginning, being able to separate the negative self talk from your real self and what you really think is key. Some people give their negative self talk soundtrack a name, which can help create that distance.
Reframing the thought with a more neutral logical statement that I had evidence to support, rather than trying to turn it into a false sounding positive was more effective for me. I also made a point of trying very hard to notice when I’d done something well and say something short and nice to myself about it. Importantly these are habits you need to build over time. I use Habitica and I used it for this.
Also for me these lifelong patterns were broken over a few years in addition to: some therapy, getting sober, gender transition, an ADHD diagnosis and various other big life and relationship changes, which all gradually shifted my mindset and how I think about myself completely. So realising you’re done with this running soundtrack might be a sign that it’s time to look at your life as a whole, with the help of a therapist if possible, and see where changes need to be made.
posted by chives at 6:11 AM on October 20, 2023
Reframing the thought with a more neutral logical statement that I had evidence to support, rather than trying to turn it into a false sounding positive was more effective for me. I also made a point of trying very hard to notice when I’d done something well and say something short and nice to myself about it. Importantly these are habits you need to build over time. I use Habitica and I used it for this.
Also for me these lifelong patterns were broken over a few years in addition to: some therapy, getting sober, gender transition, an ADHD diagnosis and various other big life and relationship changes, which all gradually shifted my mindset and how I think about myself completely. So realising you’re done with this running soundtrack might be a sign that it’s time to look at your life as a whole, with the help of a therapist if possible, and see where changes need to be made.
posted by chives at 6:11 AM on October 20, 2023
Like St. Peepsburg, I realized that a lot of it was my mom's or my ex-husband's voice in my head that I internalized, and it helped to understand that so when it started up, I could really get that it wasn't me, so I could stop identifying with it and instead become more objective about it.
The other thing I did was make a list of all these negative beliefs I had about myself, and then underneath each belief I wrote the objective truth, as a reference that I can use for reassurance when I get stuck in the negative belief.
For instance, here are a couple of them:
Belief: I am unlovable
Truth: I am lovable. I am very lovable. Most people have a hard time loving others, and I haven't met many that are capable of truly loving me, but that's not because I'm unlovable, it's because they have their own things that get in the way. I have a hard time loving others for the same reason, but I still find them lovable; why would I be any less lovable than I think they are?
Belief: I am too needy
Truth: I have needs, just like everyone does. And I haven't had many of them met in years, so it's understandable that I have a lot of them. I am actively working on learning how to meet many of them myself, and choosing to surround myself with people who can understand and meet the ones that are reasonable for me to ask for in relationships. If someone finds me to be too needy, that's simply a signal that we might not be a good match.
So for both of these approaches, a lot of the work is recognizing when it starts happening, and being able to step outside of it and look at it with some compassion and objectivity. It's a hard skill to learn, because it requires kind of short-circuiting the thought in the moment rather than getting stuck in it, which is an entirely new way of relating to these thoughts.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:19 AM on October 20, 2023
The other thing I did was make a list of all these negative beliefs I had about myself, and then underneath each belief I wrote the objective truth, as a reference that I can use for reassurance when I get stuck in the negative belief.
For instance, here are a couple of them:
Belief: I am unlovable
Truth: I am lovable. I am very lovable. Most people have a hard time loving others, and I haven't met many that are capable of truly loving me, but that's not because I'm unlovable, it's because they have their own things that get in the way. I have a hard time loving others for the same reason, but I still find them lovable; why would I be any less lovable than I think they are?
Belief: I am too needy
Truth: I have needs, just like everyone does. And I haven't had many of them met in years, so it's understandable that I have a lot of them. I am actively working on learning how to meet many of them myself, and choosing to surround myself with people who can understand and meet the ones that are reasonable for me to ask for in relationships. If someone finds me to be too needy, that's simply a signal that we might not be a good match.
So for both of these approaches, a lot of the work is recognizing when it starts happening, and being able to step outside of it and look at it with some compassion and objectivity. It's a hard skill to learn, because it requires kind of short-circuiting the thought in the moment rather than getting stuck in it, which is an entirely new way of relating to these thoughts.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:19 AM on October 20, 2023
1. medication
2. having someone in my life who countered it if they heard me
3. I would think about the fact that repeating things strengthens the associated neurons. I imagined that every time I thought something, I was making a little rut in my brain. I would think to myself, "ok, it's true that I'm a terrible person or whatever, sure, but thinking about that all the time is becoming inconvenient. If I think it now, it will deepen my rut and make me more likely to think about it later. So I'm not going to argue with if it's true or not, I'm simply going to think about something else. Like cats."
posted by tofu_crouton at 6:43 AM on October 20, 2023
2. having someone in my life who countered it if they heard me
3. I would think about the fact that repeating things strengthens the associated neurons. I imagined that every time I thought something, I was making a little rut in my brain. I would think to myself, "ok, it's true that I'm a terrible person or whatever, sure, but thinking about that all the time is becoming inconvenient. If I think it now, it will deepen my rut and make me more likely to think about it later. So I'm not going to argue with if it's true or not, I'm simply going to think about something else. Like cats."
posted by tofu_crouton at 6:43 AM on October 20, 2023
MDMA, ketamine, nitrous oxide, LSD, and mushrooms. Traditional psych meds made it worse. Focusing on physical health - particularly diet, exercise, and looking after my sensory needs - helps a lot.
I also just realized that I don't want to live with a person who's speaking to me that way all the time. It was like "Well, maybe these things are true. But even if they are, I'm going to stop saying them to myself, because I don't like being spoken to that way... I'm stuck with myself all the time, so even if I don't like myself much I have to learn how and fake it a bit at first, because of course I don't like myself! I'm an ass to myself all the time."
posted by wheatlets at 7:02 AM on October 20, 2023
I also just realized that I don't want to live with a person who's speaking to me that way all the time. It was like "Well, maybe these things are true. But even if they are, I'm going to stop saying them to myself, because I don't like being spoken to that way... I'm stuck with myself all the time, so even if I don't like myself much I have to learn how and fake it a bit at first, because of course I don't like myself! I'm an ass to myself all the time."
posted by wheatlets at 7:02 AM on October 20, 2023
Funny that wheatlets beat me to saying it…
I did a seemingly irresponsible volume of MDMA, LSD and mushrooms while for the first time in my life spending extended amounts of time with people who didn’t treat my feelings as annoyances that required punishment.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 9:26 AM on October 20, 2023
I did a seemingly irresponsible volume of MDMA, LSD and mushrooms while for the first time in my life spending extended amounts of time with people who didn’t treat my feelings as annoyances that required punishment.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 9:26 AM on October 20, 2023
The fact that you're recognizing this as negative self-talk, and as a problem in and of itself that is separate from You and The Way You Are is a large part of the battle. You're getting a lot of great advice on specific techniques, and with this mindset, it's just a matter of time before you find things that make a difference for you.
On a practical level, I found guided imagery like this very helpful in shifting that inner voice. Meditation is also good for helping you notice when those bad old tapes start running.
Also, it's a bit of a cliche, but it also really helps me to think "what would I say to a friend right now?" when I get into one of those spirals. You'd probably have lots of ways to talk them out of seeing only the negative, catastrophizing about the the future, etc..
posted by rpfields at 9:55 AM on October 20, 2023
On a practical level, I found guided imagery like this very helpful in shifting that inner voice. Meditation is also good for helping you notice when those bad old tapes start running.
Also, it's a bit of a cliche, but it also really helps me to think "what would I say to a friend right now?" when I get into one of those spirals. You'd probably have lots of ways to talk them out of seeing only the negative, catastrophizing about the the future, etc..
posted by rpfields at 9:55 AM on October 20, 2023
I read the first few chapters of Feeling Good, and then I started paying conscious attention to negative thoughts, then writing down and examining every single one of them I had for cognitive distortions.
I remember feeling relieved that I wasn’t uniquely screwed up, because all human brains were prone to interpreting the world in these predictably negative ways at times. I had just been doing it all the time, all my life.
Just doing that much helped me feel better very quickly. I gradually finished reading the book, and started using two other techniques. First, I allowed myself to express and examine my anger in a similar way (I’d never really known I felt anger). Second, I examined the fears behind the negative thoughts, learning to come up with a single 'rule' that I had been unconsciously following, then replacing it with a more thoughtful one. (For example, negative thoughts about my body stemmed from the subconscious idea that my weight made me worthless. Unearthing that idea made it easier to examine, counter and replace with the idea that my body, like everyone else's, is worthy of love and care whatever weight it is.)
I read Feeling Good to do this, but I would actually recommend Dr. Burns’ later book Feeling Great, because I feel like it is more accessibly written. Feeling Good is very dense, and in some areas shows its age: I now feel like the chapter on anger is one of the most valuable things I’ve ever read, but it was clearly written in the 1970s and some examples of how wives learned to manage their anger at their thoughtless, cruel husbands irritated me so much I stopped reading for a few months.
Feeling Great is easier to get value out of, and it has one major insight that changed my way of thinking: your negative thoughts aren’t problems to be fixed, but rather come from the best part of who you are. If you really think about it, you wouldn’t want to erase them entirely: for example, it's painful to obsess about “am I a bad mother?" but it's a positive thing for me to want to be a good mom and do right by my kids. If I truly lost that desire, I’d lose a precious part of myself as well.
The job of cognitive-behavioral therapy isn't to erase your feelings: it's to determine how close to reality they really are, and dial them down when they're unbearable and interfering with your life and happiness.
The ironic thing is, my husband also struggled with negative thoughts, and CBT didn’t resonate with him: instead, he started meditating, and that helped him separate himself from his stream of negative self-talk. I feel like, everyone should try CBT!! but that helps remind me it’s just one path.
posted by shirobara at 10:26 AM on October 20, 2023
I remember feeling relieved that I wasn’t uniquely screwed up, because all human brains were prone to interpreting the world in these predictably negative ways at times. I had just been doing it all the time, all my life.
Just doing that much helped me feel better very quickly. I gradually finished reading the book, and started using two other techniques. First, I allowed myself to express and examine my anger in a similar way (I’d never really known I felt anger). Second, I examined the fears behind the negative thoughts, learning to come up with a single 'rule' that I had been unconsciously following, then replacing it with a more thoughtful one. (For example, negative thoughts about my body stemmed from the subconscious idea that my weight made me worthless. Unearthing that idea made it easier to examine, counter and replace with the idea that my body, like everyone else's, is worthy of love and care whatever weight it is.)
I read Feeling Good to do this, but I would actually recommend Dr. Burns’ later book Feeling Great, because I feel like it is more accessibly written. Feeling Good is very dense, and in some areas shows its age: I now feel like the chapter on anger is one of the most valuable things I’ve ever read, but it was clearly written in the 1970s and some examples of how wives learned to manage their anger at their thoughtless, cruel husbands irritated me so much I stopped reading for a few months.
Feeling Great is easier to get value out of, and it has one major insight that changed my way of thinking: your negative thoughts aren’t problems to be fixed, but rather come from the best part of who you are. If you really think about it, you wouldn’t want to erase them entirely: for example, it's painful to obsess about “am I a bad mother?" but it's a positive thing for me to want to be a good mom and do right by my kids. If I truly lost that desire, I’d lose a precious part of myself as well.
The job of cognitive-behavioral therapy isn't to erase your feelings: it's to determine how close to reality they really are, and dial them down when they're unbearable and interfering with your life and happiness.
The ironic thing is, my husband also struggled with negative thoughts, and CBT didn’t resonate with him: instead, he started meditating, and that helped him separate himself from his stream of negative self-talk. I feel like, everyone should try CBT!! but that helps remind me it’s just one path.
posted by shirobara at 10:26 AM on October 20, 2023
Zen teacher Cheri Huber's book (Regardless of What You Were Taught to Believe) There is Nothing Wrong With You: Going Beyond Self-Hate.
posted by Lexica at 11:48 AM on October 20, 2023
posted by Lexica at 11:48 AM on October 20, 2023
I realised that I could channel my strong parental drive into care taking myself so that I treat myself like a beloved dependent - who like all dependents does stuff that annoys me or makes my life hard sometimes, but that's okay.
It distresses me to hear anyone being mean, so for me it wasn't hard because it upset me more to hear myself being mean that it did to be the subject of the mean self talk.
Remember that when someone who loves you is unkind and impatient with you, it means they are having a bad day and need help to reduce stress and get in control. So if I say, "Jane, what the hell do you think you are doing?? Are you stupid?" I know that Jane the Brown is too upset to use her good social skills, so it is time for a time out, and maybe some hot tea and a biscuit. She can go on talking to Jane the Brown once she is feeling better and prepared to do it properly.
posted by Jane the Brown at 2:30 PM on October 20, 2023
It distresses me to hear anyone being mean, so for me it wasn't hard because it upset me more to hear myself being mean that it did to be the subject of the mean self talk.
Remember that when someone who loves you is unkind and impatient with you, it means they are having a bad day and need help to reduce stress and get in control. So if I say, "Jane, what the hell do you think you are doing?? Are you stupid?" I know that Jane the Brown is too upset to use her good social skills, so it is time for a time out, and maybe some hot tea and a biscuit. She can go on talking to Jane the Brown once she is feeling better and prepared to do it properly.
posted by Jane the Brown at 2:30 PM on October 20, 2023
I found Self-Compassion by Kristin Neff to be very helpful. She differentiates between self-esteem and self-compassion, and explains the deep physiological and hereditary basis for the thought processes that drive our negative self talk. I became more aware of the self-deprecating thought processes which were basically a self-defense measure (say or think it first so you beat the other person to the criticism).
posted by forthright at 9:39 PM on October 21, 2023
posted by forthright at 9:39 PM on October 21, 2023
Meditation. Left Seattle for New Orleans; it’s amazing how much the shitty voices in my head shut up once I was no longer starved for sunlight.
posted by egypturnash at 1:48 AM on October 22, 2023
posted by egypturnash at 1:48 AM on October 22, 2023
Kristin Neff also has "The Mindful Self-Compassion Workbook" which I hated doing but which contained tools I use often, and I also recommend it to others often.
re: why ... my therapist (who does Acceptance and Commitment Therapy among other techniques) finally got me to start to recognize and notice the negative self-talk as 1. negative; 2. not normative; 3. not required.
posted by librarina at 8:43 AM on October 23, 2023
re: why ... my therapist (who does Acceptance and Commitment Therapy among other techniques) finally got me to start to recognize and notice the negative self-talk as 1. negative; 2. not normative; 3. not required.
posted by librarina at 8:43 AM on October 23, 2023
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posted by pullayup at 6:34 PM on October 19, 2023