Should I be more understanding or scared about boyfriend's confession?
October 11, 2023 1:31 AM Subscribe
In a serious discussion my boyfriend and he told me he does not want to blackmail me but that he is sure his life without me is pointless, that he will jump off the bridge or live in the forest, that he will give up on dating and life because it makes no sense. He regretted saying that afterwards honestly because he was being too honest and open with me and now, I am going to feel blackmailed. So his intention was clearly not to blackmail me but it was more about sharing his feelings. I probably did not take it well because I got visibly shocked; main reason being the fact that I have been struggling with my mental health my entire life. While it is safe to say I am no longer threat to myself and I progressed a lot in this area, I still struggle with being hard on myself, betrayal trauma, CPTSD and intimacy issues, therefore it hurts and scares me a lot to see that someone’s mental health depends on me so strongly. He regrets telling me that and promises to not share his deep feelings with me anymore, although I do not know if that is the right way.
Overall he is caring, communicates, he is reliable, gladly takes care of my pets if needed or of me if I dont feel well, he sticks to the plans, prioritizes me and is actually willing to work on relationship. He quit drinking as this made him act up, having jealousy outbursts and yelling at me. It made me uncomfortable and last time it happened I told him I cant be with him anymore. Especially after he told me he felt terrible and yet could not get himself to respect me enough to stop drinking and seek therapy, at least until I told him I am leaving…well, now he at least stopped drinking. But we kept in touch and somehow he started considering us being in relationship again. I am not completely over the drinking incidents, and I also do not know if this is healthy attachment. I brought up the fact that I think he might struggle with codependency; I know about such stuff because I did not develop the healthiest attachment styles either. My issue is, however, that I am somewhere deep down still haunted by stigma of being single, which was the worst thing ever to my traditional parents. I can still hear them saying “no wonder no one wants you” every time I screw something up in my life when I am single, even though we are no longer in contact, and just do not know how to get rid of that.
I am not experienced with “constructive” arguments in relationships ; With this guy, I was pleased to se he actually wants to talk, but there is another extreme – plenty of conclusions (I know you hate me anyway!; What, do you think no one hurt me before?, ) strong statements, among others that I am physically abusive, that I was hitting him (I swear I did not, I grabbed his arm while explaining something to him; I wanted to leave at that point, thinking I am delusional and I am hurting him so he is better off without me. I would never stay involved with anyone if I thought I was a threat!), but later as he calmed down, he admitted that he “exaggerated”. It still stings. I did not understand why did he want to be in a relationship with allegedly abusive person. As well as saying “of course, it is all about you” when I expressed my pain about his behavior once. Sometimes it seems like the only time he takes my pain and frustrations seriously is when I start crying; I am rarely this frustrated, although if happened a few times during this year we were together.
It still doesn’t sit well with me, even though my previous relationships included cheating, gaslighting, indifference so I often think, at least I don’t need to endure that anymore. I have very little trust in myself and my taste in partners, I have limited intuition and I doubt I will be able to find anyone who would have the same preferences and life goals as this one. And yet as someones partner I want to be source of support and I feel guilty of being scared.
Otherwise I am super excited about job opportunity I wanted for years, I have amazing and healthy pets plus I got a very nice flatmate. I cut off toxic/abusive parents and it brought a lot of relief, although the consequences are still there. My life is overall good, but ever since that confession, I had very difficult time falling and staying asleep, keep having awful nightmares, and am overall so powerless to deal with it that I am just going with it, trying not to think about it. I feel like I have become some strange version of myself since this confession, yet I did not want to appear not supportive towards someone opening up.
I feel like ever since then, I am like on autopilot, completely stuck, there is no way out anymore and decisions have been made for me. On one hand it is even relieving but the other side of me is concerned what will come out of it. I do not know what to do and how to get the power to do it.
I am on a not-yet-successful search for a therapist as I did not connect as much as I wanted with my previous one, plus it is difficult to find English speaking one, as I live abroad and English is my stronger language. Until then, any advice would be appreciated.
Overall he is caring, communicates, he is reliable, gladly takes care of my pets if needed or of me if I dont feel well, he sticks to the plans, prioritizes me and is actually willing to work on relationship. He quit drinking as this made him act up, having jealousy outbursts and yelling at me. It made me uncomfortable and last time it happened I told him I cant be with him anymore. Especially after he told me he felt terrible and yet could not get himself to respect me enough to stop drinking and seek therapy, at least until I told him I am leaving…well, now he at least stopped drinking. But we kept in touch and somehow he started considering us being in relationship again. I am not completely over the drinking incidents, and I also do not know if this is healthy attachment. I brought up the fact that I think he might struggle with codependency; I know about such stuff because I did not develop the healthiest attachment styles either. My issue is, however, that I am somewhere deep down still haunted by stigma of being single, which was the worst thing ever to my traditional parents. I can still hear them saying “no wonder no one wants you” every time I screw something up in my life when I am single, even though we are no longer in contact, and just do not know how to get rid of that.
I am not experienced with “constructive” arguments in relationships ; With this guy, I was pleased to se he actually wants to talk, but there is another extreme – plenty of conclusions (I know you hate me anyway!; What, do you think no one hurt me before?, ) strong statements, among others that I am physically abusive, that I was hitting him (I swear I did not, I grabbed his arm while explaining something to him; I wanted to leave at that point, thinking I am delusional and I am hurting him so he is better off without me. I would never stay involved with anyone if I thought I was a threat!), but later as he calmed down, he admitted that he “exaggerated”. It still stings. I did not understand why did he want to be in a relationship with allegedly abusive person. As well as saying “of course, it is all about you” when I expressed my pain about his behavior once. Sometimes it seems like the only time he takes my pain and frustrations seriously is when I start crying; I am rarely this frustrated, although if happened a few times during this year we were together.
It still doesn’t sit well with me, even though my previous relationships included cheating, gaslighting, indifference so I often think, at least I don’t need to endure that anymore. I have very little trust in myself and my taste in partners, I have limited intuition and I doubt I will be able to find anyone who would have the same preferences and life goals as this one. And yet as someones partner I want to be source of support and I feel guilty of being scared.
Otherwise I am super excited about job opportunity I wanted for years, I have amazing and healthy pets plus I got a very nice flatmate. I cut off toxic/abusive parents and it brought a lot of relief, although the consequences are still there. My life is overall good, but ever since that confession, I had very difficult time falling and staying asleep, keep having awful nightmares, and am overall so powerless to deal with it that I am just going with it, trying not to think about it. I feel like I have become some strange version of myself since this confession, yet I did not want to appear not supportive towards someone opening up.
I feel like ever since then, I am like on autopilot, completely stuck, there is no way out anymore and decisions have been made for me. On one hand it is even relieving but the other side of me is concerned what will come out of it. I do not know what to do and how to get the power to do it.
I am on a not-yet-successful search for a therapist as I did not connect as much as I wanted with my previous one, plus it is difficult to find English speaking one, as I live abroad and English is my stronger language. Until then, any advice would be appreciated.
But we kept in touch and somehow he started considering us being in relationship again.
Wait a minute, do you mean that you broke it off and then he decided, since you still spoke to each other, that you had started being in a relationship again, without your acknowledgment or awareness?? Because that is not okay. Someone can’t just declare they are your boyfriend, you have to agree to it. Did he think that the relationship would be back on as long as he stopped drinking? Because that’s not how that works; being sober is a good way to show his ability to change but not a guarantee that you would get back with him.
This guy sounds like bad news, and you sound like you really need to learn how to enjoy being single for a while. You say you like your flat mate, that your pets are lovely, and you’re in the process of finding a therapist. Tell this guy that you aren’t able to be with anyone right now, and focus on friendships, spending time having adventures and new experiences with your pets, and finding a therapist ASAP. If he actually cares about you as a person, and not just someone to be a girlfriend, he will back off and let you work on yourself. If he reacts violently or accusatorially then you know he is full of shit. Be prepared for the second one - have this conversation in a public place and ask your flatmate to check up with you shortly after.
You owe it to yourself to surround yourself with people who don’t trigger nightmares.
posted by Mizu at 2:20 AM on October 11, 2023 [32 favorites]
Wait a minute, do you mean that you broke it off and then he decided, since you still spoke to each other, that you had started being in a relationship again, without your acknowledgment or awareness?? Because that is not okay. Someone can’t just declare they are your boyfriend, you have to agree to it. Did he think that the relationship would be back on as long as he stopped drinking? Because that’s not how that works; being sober is a good way to show his ability to change but not a guarantee that you would get back with him.
This guy sounds like bad news, and you sound like you really need to learn how to enjoy being single for a while. You say you like your flat mate, that your pets are lovely, and you’re in the process of finding a therapist. Tell this guy that you aren’t able to be with anyone right now, and focus on friendships, spending time having adventures and new experiences with your pets, and finding a therapist ASAP. If he actually cares about you as a person, and not just someone to be a girlfriend, he will back off and let you work on yourself. If he reacts violently or accusatorially then you know he is full of shit. Be prepared for the second one - have this conversation in a public place and ask your flatmate to check up with you shortly after.
You owe it to yourself to surround yourself with people who don’t trigger nightmares.
posted by Mizu at 2:20 AM on October 11, 2023 [32 favorites]
So how does this play out? You stay with him, forever, regardless of if you are miserable or he's abusing you or cheating on you?
posted by DarlingBri at 2:46 AM on October 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 2:46 AM on October 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
I’m sorry you’re going through this. I’ll try to keep my answer short, though. His confession isn’t your problem or your responsibility. If it’s not true, it’s sick and manipulative, not actually “being honest and open,” and the guy needs therapy before he can be trusted to have a healthy relationship. Having you as a girlfriend would only reward his bad behavior without making you happier. If it is true, then he has unhealthy attachment to you, and needs therapy before he can be trusted to have a healthy relationship. Having you as a girlfriend would only get in the way of his seeking the help he needs without making you happier. Because he doesn’t own you, and if you left him tomorrow and he actually jumped off a bridge, it would not be in any way your fault or responsibility, any more than if your garbage man did after you were late on a payment - even if he sent you a warning note about it in advance. Only your boyfriend is responsible for making his own life decisions, and if he isn’t mentally aware enough to realize that not being with someone makes him feel suicidal, and that feeling suicidal is a sign that he needs professional help, then that’s an easy thing to google, print out, and include with your goodbye note.
It’s nice that he does stuff that makes you happy sometimes and gives you reasons to want to stay. You know who else does that? Good boyfriends who don’t manipulate you. They’re out there. And the best way to find them is to get this guy out of your life - ideally into a good therapist’s office, but after you’ve let him know that based on his trusting you with his honest inner thoughts, that’s the best way you know to help him, whether he goes or not is 100% on him.
posted by Mchelly at 2:48 AM on October 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
It’s nice that he does stuff that makes you happy sometimes and gives you reasons to want to stay. You know who else does that? Good boyfriends who don’t manipulate you. They’re out there. And the best way to find them is to get this guy out of your life - ideally into a good therapist’s office, but after you’ve let him know that based on his trusting you with his honest inner thoughts, that’s the best way you know to help him, whether he goes or not is 100% on him.
posted by Mchelly at 2:48 AM on October 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
I can almost fully guarantee that if you break up with him, he will find someone new within weeks, and you will be stunned and aghast at all the months (years?!) you will have spent agonizing over this and fearing for him and wasting your lifeforce and energy, wringing your hands. I lost 4 years this way once and have seen it play out a thousand times in other people’s lives. It’s almost funny, except it is super not. I recommend getting out before the scars ruin future relationships.
posted by asimplemouse at 2:57 AM on October 11, 2023 [34 favorites]
posted by asimplemouse at 2:57 AM on October 11, 2023 [34 favorites]
What I don't see in your message: an explanation of what you like about this relationship, or what's good about it for either of you. What I do see in your message: you're sort of fallen into this situation and it feels kind of like a relationship, so you coast through it on autopilot and take for granted that this is what relationships are like. I'm not sure if that's an accurate assessment in your daily experience, but it's worth thinking about. Because what you describe is not what most people would consider a relationship, or at least not one that has substance, intention, direction, communication, etc.
Can you respond to those questions, to yourself? Is there substance in this relationship that you're not delving into to keep the question short? Or is this really a good refelction of how you and this pther person interact? How does it sound to you when you try an exercise like listing, on paper, the good things about your time with this person and the bad things about your time with this person? Which of those categories has more detail in it? Which of those categories can you more easily add items to? Which category is easier to fill up with details?
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 3:13 AM on October 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Can you respond to those questions, to yourself? Is there substance in this relationship that you're not delving into to keep the question short? Or is this really a good refelction of how you and this pther person interact? How does it sound to you when you try an exercise like listing, on paper, the good things about your time with this person and the bad things about your time with this person? Which of those categories has more detail in it? Which of those categories can you more easily add items to? Which category is easier to fill up with details?
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 3:13 AM on October 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Quick answer as I’m off to work.
I was in a similar situation. I’m glad you’re looking for a therapist. Perhaps try Al-Anon to learn about manipulation and co-dependency. (I’m a recovering alcoholic, 18 yrs in.). My other quick thought is to read The Gift of Fear, by Gavin de Becker. COMPLETELY changed my perspective and snapped me out of the roller coaster.
posted by Caseyu at 3:34 AM on October 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
I was in a similar situation. I’m glad you’re looking for a therapist. Perhaps try Al-Anon to learn about manipulation and co-dependency. (I’m a recovering alcoholic, 18 yrs in.). My other quick thought is to read The Gift of Fear, by Gavin de Becker. COMPLETELY changed my perspective and snapped me out of the roller coaster.
posted by Caseyu at 3:34 AM on October 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
You should be more clearly understanding that he absolutely means to manipulate (emotionally blackmail) you.
posted by Dashy at 4:13 AM on October 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 4:13 AM on October 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
Consider reading up on how Borderline Personality Disorder presents itself, particularly in men. You don't need to diagnose him, but I am thinking the reading may help you to recognize problem behaviors in relationships and learn what you can and cannot control in others' feelings.
posted by Gable Oak at 4:15 AM on October 11, 2023
posted by Gable Oak at 4:15 AM on October 11, 2023
Lots of red flags here.
Listen to your instincts. Trust yourself. You know this man is bad for you and being with him is unhealthy. Your life sounds like it's going well in every other area except with him. Cut him out of your life. Send him a clear, unequivocal message that you have broken up and he isn't welcome to contact you any more. Block him on everything and, most importantly: do NOT talk to him at all. Make sure your flatmate knows not to let him in your flat and to tell you if he's hanging around. Consider reporting to the police that you've broken up with an abusive man and you want it on record that you're telling him not to contact you so they can help out if he escalates things. Be vigilant and stay safe.
I'm sorry this is happening to you and I hope he clears off and lets you get on with your life as a free and happy person without him.
posted by fight or flight at 4:39 AM on October 11, 2023 [10 favorites]
- His statement about his life being "pointless" and threatening to harm himself if you left is emotionally manipulative. He knows this, he said it because he wants to manipulate you into staying with him.
- You broke up due to his drinking and he just decided you're in a relationship again because you stayed in contact -- what? Did you ever actually agree to get back with him or did he just make that decision for the both of you?
- He "could not get himself to respect me enough to stop drinking and seek therapy". Does he respect you now? Is he in therapy? It feels like the answer is a "no" to both of these statements.
- His argument style: "plenty of conclusions (I know you hate me anyway!; What, do you think no one hurt me before?, ) strong statements, among others that I am physically abusive, that I was hitting him". More emotional manipulation. He is trying to control you and gaslight you. He's literally telling you lies and convincing you that they're truths in order to make you feel bad and stay with him.
Listen to your instincts. Trust yourself. You know this man is bad for you and being with him is unhealthy. Your life sounds like it's going well in every other area except with him. Cut him out of your life. Send him a clear, unequivocal message that you have broken up and he isn't welcome to contact you any more. Block him on everything and, most importantly: do NOT talk to him at all. Make sure your flatmate knows not to let him in your flat and to tell you if he's hanging around. Consider reporting to the police that you've broken up with an abusive man and you want it on record that you're telling him not to contact you so they can help out if he escalates things. Be vigilant and stay safe.
I'm sorry this is happening to you and I hope he clears off and lets you get on with your life as a free and happy person without him.
posted by fight or flight at 4:39 AM on October 11, 2023 [10 favorites]
In the off-chance that he is flat-out struggling, ask him to listen, then dial 988 on his (or a neutral) phone and put it on speaker. Talk to whoever is on the line about what he disclosed while he is within earshot and ask how he can deal with overwhelming feelings. It’s one way to show him that there are people in the world that care when you are struggling. They will help him identify safe options. This will also help you not feel like his only option. When people need professional help, leaning too hard on others “instead” often warps and buckles relationships.
Yesterday was mental health awareness day and Bowie State had a whole panel of guys talking about and modeling mental health self-care-which is the opposite of not-talking-about-it.
Yes, this can be a sign of manipulation and a precursor to abuse. I’m mostly putting this out there so people test the waters on including people who are willing to work with mental health professionals. A lot of people skate by mental health needs until everything is on fire. It’s ok to reach out when you smell smoke.
posted by childofTethys at 5:29 AM on October 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Yesterday was mental health awareness day and Bowie State had a whole panel of guys talking about and modeling mental health self-care-which is the opposite of not-talking-about-it.
Yes, this can be a sign of manipulation and a precursor to abuse. I’m mostly putting this out there so people test the waters on including people who are willing to work with mental health professionals. A lot of people skate by mental health needs until everything is on fire. It’s ok to reach out when you smell smoke.
posted by childofTethys at 5:29 AM on October 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Crikey I missed the non-US note. Look at resources in your country that model 988, also, see if your/his employer have an employee assistance program that can provide some limited support while identifying resources for him without overburdening you.
posted by childofTethys at 5:35 AM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by childofTethys at 5:35 AM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
To answer the stated questions, no, you should not be scared about your boyfriend’s statements. More understanding? You seem to be pretty understanding overall, so no. He's being manipulative and trying to keep you engaged. Apparently, its working.
This stuck out to me: somehow he started considering us being in a relationship again.
You get to choose if you want to be in a relationship with him or not.
Break up with him (again) and don’t stay in contact. That is hard, but that is the way you will start to sleep again.
Many women (and men) feel pressure to be in a relationship. Society loves couples, it is true. But that doesn’t mean you have to accept this particular relationship.
good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 6:20 AM on October 11, 2023
This stuck out to me: somehow he started considering us being in a relationship again.
You get to choose if you want to be in a relationship with him or not.
Break up with him (again) and don’t stay in contact. That is hard, but that is the way you will start to sleep again.
Many women (and men) feel pressure to be in a relationship. Society loves couples, it is true. But that doesn’t mean you have to accept this particular relationship.
good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 6:20 AM on October 11, 2023
I know I give the same advice in a lot of these threads, but: what would it take for you to permanently break it off with this person, and put them out of your life?
Would it have to be worse than this? Do you want to be the person "worse than this" happens to?
End this relationship for good. Healthy relationships don't bring up questions like this, this guy is being manipulative and abusive and you shouldn't have that in your life.
posted by mhoye at 6:41 AM on October 11, 2023 [10 favorites]
Would it have to be worse than this? Do you want to be the person "worse than this" happens to?
End this relationship for good. Healthy relationships don't bring up questions like this, this guy is being manipulative and abusive and you shouldn't have that in your life.
posted by mhoye at 6:41 AM on October 11, 2023 [10 favorites]
I've had one ex-girlfriend and one (different) ex-wife threaten suicide as a means of manipulating me and keeping me from ending the relationship.
To the best of my knowledge, they're both still alive.
posted by Hatashran at 6:42 AM on October 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
To the best of my knowledge, they're both still alive.
posted by Hatashran at 6:42 AM on October 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Just get out. What in the world are you getting out of this except drama? Why in the world would you stay with someone once they accused you of being physically abusive and then walked it back?
Being alone is better than this, even if it's less exciting. You will find other ways to feel special. Stop dating until you deal with whatever mechanism it is that has stopped you from walking away.
He's a grown-ass adult, he'll either get help or he won't, but This Guy has no intention of killing himself (and it's not about you if he does). He'll have the next version of you installed within six weeks, after he stops trying to mindfuck you into being back in a relationship with him again.
Take this phrase: "I'm sorry, our relationship is over. I hope you get some help, but it can't come from me." Don't say anything else, just repeat this over and over. No explanations, don't be baited into arguments, don't worry if he doesn't seem to understand your perspective - you'll survive being misunderstood.
You need to take the time to get yourself some help. You're going to get yourself killed if you don't construct some boundaries and get some standards. Yes, it is hard to find a therapist. What you can start right now, literally within 90 seconds if you have an amazon account, is a workbook, which will be a great means of educating yourself and preparing the specific topics and goals you want to work on when you do finally get situated with a therapist.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:48 AM on October 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Being alone is better than this, even if it's less exciting. You will find other ways to feel special. Stop dating until you deal with whatever mechanism it is that has stopped you from walking away.
He's a grown-ass adult, he'll either get help or he won't, but This Guy has no intention of killing himself (and it's not about you if he does). He'll have the next version of you installed within six weeks, after he stops trying to mindfuck you into being back in a relationship with him again.
Take this phrase: "I'm sorry, our relationship is over. I hope you get some help, but it can't come from me." Don't say anything else, just repeat this over and over. No explanations, don't be baited into arguments, don't worry if he doesn't seem to understand your perspective - you'll survive being misunderstood.
You need to take the time to get yourself some help. You're going to get yourself killed if you don't construct some boundaries and get some standards. Yes, it is hard to find a therapist. What you can start right now, literally within 90 seconds if you have an amazon account, is a workbook, which will be a great means of educating yourself and preparing the specific topics and goals you want to work on when you do finally get situated with a therapist.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:48 AM on October 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
main reason being the fact that I have been struggling with my mental health my entire life
This is your secret advantage in this case. You’ve been there. You’ve heard how grim and operatic your internal dialog can get. You know how often that dialog is divorced from reality.
Hear his words through that filter. He is on his own journey (hopefully towards a happier internal life) and what you do is not going to affect it much.
Also, please give some consideration to doing therapy over video with someone in the U.S. It’s not ideal but right now it’s my largest expense as an expat and worth every single penny.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:28 AM on October 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
This is your secret advantage in this case. You’ve been there. You’ve heard how grim and operatic your internal dialog can get. You know how often that dialog is divorced from reality.
Hear his words through that filter. He is on his own journey (hopefully towards a happier internal life) and what you do is not going to affect it much.
Also, please give some consideration to doing therapy over video with someone in the U.S. It’s not ideal but right now it’s my largest expense as an expat and worth every single penny.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:28 AM on October 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
I cut off toxic/abusive parents.
Excellent decision. However, you're still using their playbook. You still suspect that being single may be the worst thing in the world and you're still replaying "of course nobody wants you" and similar canards in your head all the time. You've taken the excellent first step of firing your parents but you've hired someone similar to them in this guy, who is constantly spouting manipulative abusive yack AND screaming that being single is a fate worse than death, exactly like your parents used to do.
It's compLETEly unsurprising that there is some parental nonsense still affecting your thinking, by the way: it takes a long time to identify parental bad-thinking. After all, your parents are the people who supported you for years and taught you everything about life. Obviously some of what they did and said was good and true or you'd've starved to death and never learned to walk or speak. Sorting it all out takes a while. While you're still in the discovery stage, you're highly likely to choose partners who have traits you still haven't fully identified as harmful because those people feel familiar. They don't set off warning bells as they would in people whose parents don't have those traits.
You'll get better at this as you gain experience. Meanwhile, having cut your parents off, you are now skilled in booting tiresome, mean wasters from your life, and it is time for the boot for this one, too. It's fine to be single for a while while you revise your internal Life Manual to get all the abusive nonsense out of it.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:39 AM on October 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
Excellent decision. However, you're still using their playbook. You still suspect that being single may be the worst thing in the world and you're still replaying "of course nobody wants you" and similar canards in your head all the time. You've taken the excellent first step of firing your parents but you've hired someone similar to them in this guy, who is constantly spouting manipulative abusive yack AND screaming that being single is a fate worse than death, exactly like your parents used to do.
It's compLETEly unsurprising that there is some parental nonsense still affecting your thinking, by the way: it takes a long time to identify parental bad-thinking. After all, your parents are the people who supported you for years and taught you everything about life. Obviously some of what they did and said was good and true or you'd've starved to death and never learned to walk or speak. Sorting it all out takes a while. While you're still in the discovery stage, you're highly likely to choose partners who have traits you still haven't fully identified as harmful because those people feel familiar. They don't set off warning bells as they would in people whose parents don't have those traits.
You'll get better at this as you gain experience. Meanwhile, having cut your parents off, you are now skilled in booting tiresome, mean wasters from your life, and it is time for the boot for this one, too. It's fine to be single for a while while you revise your internal Life Manual to get all the abusive nonsense out of it.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:39 AM on October 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
Should I be more understanding or scared about boyfriend's confession?
Scared, but not scared for him, scared of him.
posted by Jane the Brown at 7:41 AM on October 11, 2023 [11 favorites]
Scared, but not scared for him, scared of him.
posted by Jane the Brown at 7:41 AM on October 11, 2023 [11 favorites]
After only reading your first paragraph, I clicked through to share some thoughts on how to navigate a partner’s mental health crisis. This conversation on its own would not be something I left a partner over, and would be something I think a healthy relationship could navigate. But what is contained in the rest of your post is far more serious, and far more dangerous to you, and it recontextualizes your first paragraph.
Your boyfriend’s intention was very clearly an abusive attempt to blackmail you, because it is part of a pattern of abusive behavior. He has jealous outbursts; he yells at you; he lies to you by characterizing your behavior as abusive; he manipulated you back into a relationship after you broke up; he invalidates your feelings; he makes you question and disbelieve your own actions and motivations; he makes you feel powerless and trapped.
Please read about the DARVO theory of abuse, which is an acronym that stands for “deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender.” Your boyfriend denied that he was blackmailing you after he had clearly done so; he attacks you by yelling at you and invalidating your feelings; he reverses victim and offender by accusing you of abuse. DARVO is a particularly pernicious technique because it plays on the empathy that abused people feel especially keenly because they themselves are being abused (and have often been abused by others in the past) and know in their bones how badly it feels.
You are not wrong to feel scared, and you don’t need to feel guilty about it—your boyfriend is being scary. You deserve a partner that makes you feel safe and loved. You can find that. And even if you never do, I promise it is so, so, so much better to sometimes feel lonely than to always feel scared. Please, give yourself that happiness.
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 8:42 AM on October 11, 2023 [10 favorites]
Your boyfriend’s intention was very clearly an abusive attempt to blackmail you, because it is part of a pattern of abusive behavior. He has jealous outbursts; he yells at you; he lies to you by characterizing your behavior as abusive; he manipulated you back into a relationship after you broke up; he invalidates your feelings; he makes you question and disbelieve your own actions and motivations; he makes you feel powerless and trapped.
Please read about the DARVO theory of abuse, which is an acronym that stands for “deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender.” Your boyfriend denied that he was blackmailing you after he had clearly done so; he attacks you by yelling at you and invalidating your feelings; he reverses victim and offender by accusing you of abuse. DARVO is a particularly pernicious technique because it plays on the empathy that abused people feel especially keenly because they themselves are being abused (and have often been abused by others in the past) and know in their bones how badly it feels.
You are not wrong to feel scared, and you don’t need to feel guilty about it—your boyfriend is being scary. You deserve a partner that makes you feel safe and loved. You can find that. And even if you never do, I promise it is so, so, so much better to sometimes feel lonely than to always feel scared. Please, give yourself that happiness.
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 8:42 AM on October 11, 2023 [10 favorites]
Your boyfriend’s disclosure is manipulative. He knows this and is trying to get a pass for it by telling you so. This is a common tactic - behave poorly (in this case by making controlling statements), then express regret and make overly broad promises to address behavior that isn’t the problem (“I won’t share deep feelings anymore”). The problem isn’t his deep feelings, it’s that he’s making you responsible for his well being.
I came to say exactly what was already said above in the very first comment, which I cannot favourite hard enough. jeoc nailed it.
This guy is trying to play you like a violin and while he may have legitimate issues that need to be addressed, that is his problem and he needs to take full responsibility for it.
posted by rpfields at 9:03 AM on October 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
I came to say exactly what was already said above in the very first comment, which I cannot favourite hard enough. jeoc nailed it.
This guy is trying to play you like a violin and while he may have legitimate issues that need to be addressed, that is his problem and he needs to take full responsibility for it.
posted by rpfields at 9:03 AM on October 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Two common repeating themes in your Asks:
1. You are happy, successful, and really doing quite well with your career, finances, home, pets, personal healing, etc.
2. Your boyfriend regularly tries to pressure you, manipulate you, coerce you, denigrate you, tear you down... and generally fucks with your successful flow. (Whether he does these things intentionally or unconsciously or unintentionally while flailing due to his own extensive mental health issues, the bottomline is that this is what's he's doing to you.)
Pay attention when such patterns show up in your life. Also: re-read Don Pepino's comment and think about how you might go about taking their advice.
posted by MiraK at 9:06 AM on October 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
1. You are happy, successful, and really doing quite well with your career, finances, home, pets, personal healing, etc.
2. Your boyfriend regularly tries to pressure you, manipulate you, coerce you, denigrate you, tear you down... and generally fucks with your successful flow. (Whether he does these things intentionally or unconsciously or unintentionally while flailing due to his own extensive mental health issues, the bottomline is that this is what's he's doing to you.)
Pay attention when such patterns show up in your life. Also: re-read Don Pepino's comment and think about how you might go about taking their advice.
posted by MiraK at 9:06 AM on October 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
When you break up with him (not if, when) you will tell yourself, "I can't believe I didn't do this sooner."
I cut off toxic/abusive parents and it brought a lot of relief, although the consequences are still there.
Did prolonging this cut off help, harm, or do nothing in the end?
posted by AlSweigart at 9:16 AM on October 11, 2023
I cut off toxic/abusive parents and it brought a lot of relief, although the consequences are still there.
Did prolonging this cut off help, harm, or do nothing in the end?
posted by AlSweigart at 9:16 AM on October 11, 2023
So I thought I would be coming here to say the opposite thing as I'm winding up saying: because sometimes, people can feel like a romantic relationship is the only good thing in their otherwise depressed life, and it's not the end of the world. But THIS guy is manipulative as hell, and you should get out.
posted by corb at 11:44 AM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 11:44 AM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I couldn't work out whether to memail you or put the following in the thread, so...
Whatever your past was, your future does not need to be like it. I would be scared of someone who would threaten you with the guilt of their suicide while claiming it was an act of love.
Reverse the roles and ... godsdamn: You would have to believe anyone you said your partner's words to wouldn't put you away in supervisory care of a mental health ward for having plans to harm yourself severely. It's safer to trust the originals and get them locked up for this risk of self-harm.
Whatever you believe you deserve, it is something else -- more expansive, more of someone "different than you but with whom your greater than the sum of the parts" -- better than that.
posted by k3ninho at 11:57 AM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Whatever your past was, your future does not need to be like it. I would be scared of someone who would threaten you with the guilt of their suicide while claiming it was an act of love.
Reverse the roles and ... godsdamn: You would have to believe anyone you said your partner's words to wouldn't put you away in supervisory care of a mental health ward for having plans to harm yourself severely. It's safer to trust the originals and get them locked up for this risk of self-harm.
Whatever you believe you deserve, it is something else -- more expansive, more of someone "different than you but with whom your greater than the sum of the parts" -- better than that.
posted by k3ninho at 11:57 AM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I am very concerned for your safety.
In domestic abuse crisis response, there are a series of factors that responders look for when evaluating the level of danger the person experiencing the abuse is in. For reference, here is one such Lethality Assessment checklist from the State of California Department of Justice.
Here is what concerns me based on what you wrote in your post:
1. "having jealousy outbursts and yelling at me"
This is point 10 on the Lethality Assessment - jealousy - which your partner chooses to express by yelling at you.
2. "he is sure his life without me is pointless, that he will jump off the bridge or live in the forest, that he will give up on dating and life because it makes no sense"
This is point 14 on the Lethality Assessment - your partner is expressing that he is severely depressed and hopeless. It is normal to feel compassion for someone experiencing a mental health crisis, however it is important to note here that you are not the only person who can help your partner, and that there are qualified mental health professionals out there who are in a better position to help him through this than you are.
3. "With this guy, I was pleased to se he actually wants to talk, but there is another extreme – plenty of conclusions (I know you hate me anyway!; What, do you think no one hurt me before?, ) strong statements, among others that I am physically abusive, that I was hitting him (I swear I did not, I grabbed his arm while explaining something to him; I wanted to leave at that point, thinking I am delusional and I am hurting him so he is better off without me. I would never stay involved with anyone if I thought I was a threat!), but later as he calmed down, he admitted that he “exaggerated”."
This reads as point 16 on the Lethality Assessment - escalation - because your partner's outburst coincides with your attempt to leave. Furthermore it sounds like he is gaslighting you about his own behavior.
4. "He quit drinking as this made him act up, having jealousy outbursts and yelling at me. It made me uncomfortable and last time it happened I told him I cant be with him anymore. Especially after he told me he felt terrible and yet could not get himself to respect me enough to stop drinking and seek therapy, at least until I told him I am leaving…"
This is point 17 on the Lethality Assessment - your partner's alcohol use worsens the abuse. I'm also not convinced he has stopped drinking, based on what you have told us, primarily because he only claimed he had stopped drinking when you tried to leave.
5. "In a serious discussion my boyfriend and he told me he does not want to blackmail me but that he is sure his life without me is pointless, that he will jump off the bridge"
This is point 18 on the Lethality Assessment - your partner's threat to commit suicide.
This is a VERY concerning factor, however, in abuse dynamics the person who is most in danger is the person who is trying to leave the relationship. This man specifically made this threat when you tried to leave him. The timing is not a coincidence. He made this threat in order to make you feel like you were personally responsible for his mental well-being and that therefore you have no choice but to stay.
Take a look at the list as a whole; it is possible you will spot other factors that apply to your situation other than the ones I have mentioned.
--
I really felt for you when you wrote "My life is overall good, but ever since that confession, I had very difficult time falling and staying asleep, keep having awful nightmares, and am overall so powerless to deal with it that I am just going with it, trying not to think about it. I feel like I have become some strange version of myself since this confession, yet I did not want to appear not supportive towards someone opening up. I feel like ever since then, I am like on autopilot, completely stuck, there is no way out anymore and decisions have been made for me. On one hand it is even relieving but the other side of me is concerned what will come out of it. I do not know what to do and how to get the power to do it."
This is the part where I share that I believe you have more power than you give yourself credit for. What a beautiful life, with a new job, sweet pets, and a good dynamic with your flatmate! Right now it might feel like you are powerless, but I think that same inner self that said no, I don't like being treated this way and I want out of this relationship, is still in there and is fighting to be free. You might feel safer if you had extra support from your local domestic abuse organization, though, and that's why I suggest reaching out to them to make a safety plan.
posted by panther of the pyrenees at 1:17 PM on October 11, 2023 [20 favorites]
In domestic abuse crisis response, there are a series of factors that responders look for when evaluating the level of danger the person experiencing the abuse is in. For reference, here is one such Lethality Assessment checklist from the State of California Department of Justice.
Here is what concerns me based on what you wrote in your post:
1. "having jealousy outbursts and yelling at me"
This is point 10 on the Lethality Assessment - jealousy - which your partner chooses to express by yelling at you.
2. "he is sure his life without me is pointless, that he will jump off the bridge or live in the forest, that he will give up on dating and life because it makes no sense"
This is point 14 on the Lethality Assessment - your partner is expressing that he is severely depressed and hopeless. It is normal to feel compassion for someone experiencing a mental health crisis, however it is important to note here that you are not the only person who can help your partner, and that there are qualified mental health professionals out there who are in a better position to help him through this than you are.
3. "With this guy, I was pleased to se he actually wants to talk, but there is another extreme – plenty of conclusions (I know you hate me anyway!; What, do you think no one hurt me before?, ) strong statements, among others that I am physically abusive, that I was hitting him (I swear I did not, I grabbed his arm while explaining something to him; I wanted to leave at that point, thinking I am delusional and I am hurting him so he is better off without me. I would never stay involved with anyone if I thought I was a threat!), but later as he calmed down, he admitted that he “exaggerated”."
This reads as point 16 on the Lethality Assessment - escalation - because your partner's outburst coincides with your attempt to leave. Furthermore it sounds like he is gaslighting you about his own behavior.
4. "He quit drinking as this made him act up, having jealousy outbursts and yelling at me. It made me uncomfortable and last time it happened I told him I cant be with him anymore. Especially after he told me he felt terrible and yet could not get himself to respect me enough to stop drinking and seek therapy, at least until I told him I am leaving…"
This is point 17 on the Lethality Assessment - your partner's alcohol use worsens the abuse. I'm also not convinced he has stopped drinking, based on what you have told us, primarily because he only claimed he had stopped drinking when you tried to leave.
5. "In a serious discussion my boyfriend and he told me he does not want to blackmail me but that he is sure his life without me is pointless, that he will jump off the bridge"
This is point 18 on the Lethality Assessment - your partner's threat to commit suicide.
This is a VERY concerning factor, however, in abuse dynamics the person who is most in danger is the person who is trying to leave the relationship. This man specifically made this threat when you tried to leave him. The timing is not a coincidence. He made this threat in order to make you feel like you were personally responsible for his mental well-being and that therefore you have no choice but to stay.
Take a look at the list as a whole; it is possible you will spot other factors that apply to your situation other than the ones I have mentioned.
--
I really felt for you when you wrote "My life is overall good, but ever since that confession, I had very difficult time falling and staying asleep, keep having awful nightmares, and am overall so powerless to deal with it that I am just going with it, trying not to think about it. I feel like I have become some strange version of myself since this confession, yet I did not want to appear not supportive towards someone opening up. I feel like ever since then, I am like on autopilot, completely stuck, there is no way out anymore and decisions have been made for me. On one hand it is even relieving but the other side of me is concerned what will come out of it. I do not know what to do and how to get the power to do it."
This is the part where I share that I believe you have more power than you give yourself credit for. What a beautiful life, with a new job, sweet pets, and a good dynamic with your flatmate! Right now it might feel like you are powerless, but I think that same inner self that said no, I don't like being treated this way and I want out of this relationship, is still in there and is fighting to be free. You might feel safer if you had extra support from your local domestic abuse organization, though, and that's why I suggest reaching out to them to make a safety plan.
posted by panther of the pyrenees at 1:17 PM on October 11, 2023 [20 favorites]
This is not what a healthy or safe relationship looks like- for anyone, and even less so for you. You have your own mental health and trauma history to deal with, and this is not a situation that is supporting your healing or wellbeing. It's doing the opposite, and you need and deserve better. Don't stay. Sending you care.
posted by wormtales at 8:23 AM on October 12, 2023
posted by wormtales at 8:23 AM on October 12, 2023
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The intent is absolutely to prevent you from considering breaking up a choice. He sounds generally difficult and manipulative as a rule. Jumping to conclusions, accusing you of things you didn’t do, being dismissive of your feelings are all manipulative and reinforce your self doubt. You don’t have to stay with him if he brings more stress than happiness into your life.
If he says he’ll jump off a bridge without you - let him. Seriously- call his bluff. He will almost certainly not jump off a bridge. What he will do is hassle you for a while and then find someone else to manipulate and treat badly.
posted by jeoc at 2:05 AM on October 11, 2023 [94 favorites]