My friend is hosting shiva for her mother 1500 miles away. Should I go?

September 22, 2023 12:57 PM

On Wednesday, my college roommate--we're in our early sixties--will observe shiva for her mother, who died unexpectedly. I live halfway across the country, but I usually visit about once a year. I can manage the travel expense and the time. However, I don't want my attendance to carry any whiff of a "grand gesture," or burden my friend. I just want to slide in, show respect and support, and slide out. I did not know my friend's mother very well, nor do I think I'm expected to attend. Should I go?

I would really hate for my friend to feel obliged to spend extra time with me because I travelled so far or include me in any family-focused activities. Her extended family is small, but everyone mostly gets along and will mostly be there. If it matters, my friend's become increasingly religious over the past two decades or so, and really values her synagogue, which seems to be giving her lots of support. I am not Jewish and don't know the shiva/minyan protocols well, though I will read up if I wind up going (recommendations welcome!).

Bonus bean plating: I'm thinking about putting together a book of photos featuring my friend's mother (whether or not I attend, but in lieu of bringing food if I do go); there's plenty of excellent pics scattered across family members' various social media accounts. But is that also overstepping, or even slightly creepy?

posted by carmicha to Human Relations (29 answers total)

I just want to slide in, show respect and support, and slide out.

Then absolutely do that. If you want to reassure yourself, send her a note saying that you will be coming and that you understand that she will not have a lot of time to spend with you. In the unlikely case that she objects, say that you really want to come, and cancel only if she persists in asking you not to. And I think that taking the time to put together a book of photos is a lovely gesture.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 1:05 PM on September 22, 2023 [3 favorites]

I think she'll be delighted to have you there. What a sweet gesture.
posted by shadygrove at 1:07 PM on September 22, 2023 [1 favorite]

And I think the photobook idea is sweet, too. If you were my friend I'd be very grateful.
posted by shadygrove at 1:10 PM on September 22, 2023 [1 favorite]

I think it's excessive. I mean, a kindly meant gesture obviously, but a bit weird. Shiva is usually only something you travel to if you're close family. Otherwise you swing by if you're local. If you're not a close enough friend to be the one she'd be leaning on during the mourning process, then I don't think this is quite the done thing. (That said, if you ARE close enough that she'd be leaning on you, and turning to you to do stuff like set up chairs or sort the food etc, then sure. But she'd have asked you to come, I think, in that case.)

The book idea is kind.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:12 PM on September 22, 2023 [13 favorites]

Someone did this for me at my father's funeral a few years back (caveats, in case it matters: the travel distance wasn't quite so significant, and the ceremony was Catholic). We were able to spend a few minutes together, and my friend shared an amazing memory of my dad that I wouldn't have known about otherwise. I was deeply touched and am still so appreciative that he made the effort.
posted by paper scissors sock at 1:14 PM on September 22, 2023 [6 favorites]

Were you invited (I don't see this mentioned in the post)? If invited, by all means attend - and I wouldn't even worry about having your presence being a "burden" or feel like you need to merely slide in/slide out - I'd ask your friend if there is anything you can help out with, and let them tell you what they need.

But if you weren't invited, then I wouldn't go, because I'd assume she prefers to keep it to close family and friends of her mother.
posted by coffeecat at 1:17 PM on September 22, 2023 [5 favorites]

Best answer: My best friend was planning to travel to attend my dad‘s funeral. I asked her to visit in a couple months later instead, when things had settled down and I could really appreciate and soak in the time with her. When in doubt, just ask.
posted by gryphonlover at 1:20 PM on September 22, 2023 [23 favorites]

It would not be seen as making a grand gesture if you go. It would be seen as what it is - your friend is experiencing an extraordinary time, and sometimes that calls for extraordinary acts of friendship. If you have the time and ability to be there for her, you should go. On the other hand, if you just want to call, that's also okay. If her shiva is just one day, giving a call to say that you're sorry you can't be there but you're with her in spirit is also a good thing.

I just want to slide in, show respect and support, and slide out.

That's how shiva houses work. They're a bit like the world's saddest cocktail parties. You'll go, you'll say you're sorry, you'll show her and whatever rest of her family is there that you're there, and you'll go when the time feels right. If she asks you to stay longer or come back later, then you can do that. The photo book is a lovely idea.
posted by Mchelly at 1:24 PM on September 22, 2023 [6 favorites]

Best answer: I think a handwritten condolence letter would probably be just as meaningful to your friend, if not more.
posted by slkinsey at 1:52 PM on September 22, 2023

I drove from Austin to Houston to attend the (Christian) funeral of a dear friend from high school's mother and saw her in the restroom of the church before the funeral. I hadn't said I was coming because I wasn't sure we could make it. She was SO HAPPY to see me and feel supported. I think you should go.

The photo book also sounds like a lovely idea. What a kind friend you are to think of it.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 1:52 PM on September 22, 2023 [2 favorites]

I just did a similar thing a couple of weeks ago, but I have family in the area so I “just happened to be in town.” I’ll go against the grain and say I do think it would be overkill—maybe arrange for a loving visit a few months from now. I’m Jewish fwiw.
posted by 8603 at 2:03 PM on September 22, 2023 [4 favorites]

If your friend has a large support group around her, then I expect there will a full house for Shiva. Shiva mostly entails being there for bereaved during the first seven days of mourning (plus having a certain number of people around who can say specific prayers at certain times). People come and go, they bring food, they talk, they may stay for a long while or a short while. Again, she could have a lot of people at the house at any given time and there will probably be times when there are few people.

I'm sure your friend would appreciate the visit, but I would not expect her to have a lot of time to sit and talk with you. If you do go, I would be prepared to manage your own time and have other things you want to do during your stay. I would imagine a thoughtful card and the remembrance gift you're thinking of would also be fine and you could save your trip for a time when your friend might not be feeling so overwhelmed.

For more info on Shiva customs the excellent shiva.com is a great resource.
posted by brookeb at 2:11 PM on September 22, 2023 [5 favorites]

Best answer: I think asking would be an appropriate and kind gesture, especially if this visit means that you wouldn't be able to return for another year when she might really appreciate a visit from you more.

I find the photobook idea not-great, in part because you said you didn't know her mother well and this seems more like a gift from someone who actually had a relationship with her. Maybe a more meaningful gesture would be to share with your friend a picture you've taken of her and her mother, or a photo your friend has shared with you that relates to some anecdote?
posted by sm1tten at 2:34 PM on September 22, 2023 [6 favorites]

It's a mitzvah. Do it.
posted by Melismata at 2:39 PM on September 22, 2023 [7 favorites]

My high school BFF and I now live in different states. When her father passed, she just let me know, and said nothing further. I looked up the funeral information and made time to go; I made sure that I arranged for my own housing because I figured she would be completely overwhelmed and I didn't want to burden her with putting me up. And then at the funeral, I simply walked in and walked over to where she was sitting. She gasped, jumped up and ran over into my arms where she sobbed for a couple minutes; then we both started giggling because she'd thrown herself at me so hard she'd smooshed her kleenex box between us. She sat back down with her family and I sat down in a nearby pew.

We didn't have much time at the wake afterward, and I let her know that I could either hang out with her the following day or just let her be; it was her call. She insisted that I come over for a couple hours while she did something for some family gathering that was happening later; that also was worth it, because I was able to not just let her vent about her father's passing, but to also catch me up on the ridiculous gossip from our other high school friends (which gave her a break from thinking about heavier stuff).

In short, I made myself present, and then let her decide how much she wanted to engage and I followed her lead. And honestly, the look on her face when she saw me in the church made it absolutely worth it.

Go if you can, but make your own arrangements for a place to stay and let her call the shots when it comes to how much or how little she wants to engage. She may not have much time for you at all, but she will remember you were there.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:41 PM on September 22, 2023 [6 favorites]

Best answer: It's super nice to go to a friend's parent's funeral so it's lovely that you're asking.

I think it would probably mean a lot to your friend to see you there, as a gesture, but not as a practical experience since I doubt she will have a lot of time to engage- of the handful of shivas I've been to (I'm not Jewish, and they were close friends but not best friends), I only talked to my friend for 5-30 minutes since there were so many people present. So I think if you missed it, it would also be ok. You could send a few supportive texts during that period of time and mail a card or care package and it would be pretty equivalent in practical terms of how long it engages your friend, I think (although the comment immediately above is lovely and shows a brief but very meaningful interaction).

I think if you wanted to save your trip for later, when her bereavement period is over, and plan something nice and healing like treating her to a massage or sauna etc, that would also be nice and maybe even more welcome.

There's the funeral time and then there's that hollow time after all the funeral events are over and you're still sad but it's not as "expected" so people can feel more lonely, and that can be a great time for a closer friend to step up.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 3:46 PM on September 22, 2023 [1 favorite]

Best answer: All you are doing is letting your friend know you love her. It's not really complicated. You've been friends for forty years, she suffered a sudden and significant loss. Let her know you're planning to come and you hope that's okay, but if she's got enough support right now, coming in a month or two would also be an option.

Grief is weird. Early on it's all ritual and support descends from the heavens. Eight weeks on people have moved on to the next thing. Coming over the winter holidays might also be appreciated - when she is feeling the absence.

Personally I'm direct and I would ask: 'I want to come see you, you have my love and support--want me to come right now or in two weeks or over the holidays? My instinct is to jump in a car and come, but I wanted to ask what is best for you. I'm so sorry and I'm thinking of you constantly."

(Or whatever is true for you)
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:27 PM on September 22, 2023 [11 favorites]

Are you using shive to refer the funeral and related mourning actives or just an actual shiva minyan (the religious service) or a week long mourning period? One way to get a guage of this isbn the announcement from her temple or synagogue which should spell out which evening there will be a shiva minyan for the family and, if it is their custom, if there are other time for visiting/comforting the family.

A shiva minyan is the actual religious service - in my a short service (15 minutes plus time to talk about the deceased), and then food and visiting for an hour or so. In my community people travel long distance for funerals which usually includes the funeral service, the burial and, a 'meal of consolation' back at the house. If they can swing it, they will often but not always come back to the house for a shiva minyan in the evening. Many people who couldn't make the funeral will come to one or more of the shiva minyanim. But these people are relatively local (say less than a 2 hour drive). Normally if someone was going to travel that far, they would focus on being there for the funeral and then attend any shiva minyanim that happen while they are still in town.

It would seem very odd (and expensive) to show up for a single shiva minyan and then return home. It would seem more normal (surprising but appreciated) if you were able to be there for the funeral service and stay on for a little while. If you did, my guess is that your friend would deeply appreciate it and remember it but probably have very little time for you. Personally, I would consider waiting a month and then going when your friend will have the time to really take advantage of your presence and support.
posted by metahawk at 4:53 PM on September 22, 2023 [3 favorites]

A dear (Jewish) friend of mine's father died a few years ago, and I did not travel the 3+ hours to sit shiva with her, as I did not know her immediate family and had only met her father in passing at her wedding. I did make the trip for his memorial service a few months later, which was intended for a wider audience, and was able to be one of her friends (rather than family friends) at the event, which seemed to be helpful in a way I am not sure I would have been in her first grief.

I have been fortunate, so far, not to have other examples to draw from, but my general understanding is that shiva is really about doing whatever will support the principal mourners best, and you know your friend
posted by restless_nomad at 5:50 PM on September 22, 2023 [1 favorite]

Is there an estate, house or apartment you friend will be in charge of dealing with? Offer to come in for a few days to give a hand when she starts cleaning out the place. For now, maybe just send a card, maybe include gift certificate to local kosher food restaurant/store.
posted by Sophont at 6:35 PM on September 22, 2023

Response by poster: Thank you all so much for these thoughtful comments; you've given me much to chew on. To answer a few questions:

1) I was not invited specifically. My friend announced the gathering along with the news of her mother's death, expressing hope that people would attend, and then a day or so later posted a flyer from the synagogue, both on FaceBook where she is quite active.

2) The synagogue stated that:

Wednesday is the only time shivah will be observed. People are invited to attend from 4-8 pm and the shivah minyan portion will begin at 7:00. It will be possible to attend via Zoom.

The service itself is private. However, the day before, my friend's mother will be buried in Florida, which I think means my friend will be making a multi-state trip herself. She has no family in Florida, but that's where her mother's husband is buried and where they lived happily for years.

The synagogue also discusses its role vis-a-vis nichum aveilim (which I understand as comforting the grieving) and describes itself "an inclusive egalitarian synagogue affiliated with the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism." I have no idea what that means or whether it's germane.

3) I have already made a donation honoring the decedent to the organization my friend identified as being important to her mother.

4) The mom resided in a memory care facility and her belongings have already been pared down.

I was also moved by the people who supported me by making a big effort to attend my parents' services, even though they weren't well acquainted.

posted by carmicha at 6:59 PM on September 22, 2023

Just go.
posted by easy, lucky, free at 7:34 PM on September 22, 2023 [3 favorites]

Regarding the photo album.
No, I don’t think it’s a good idea.
Those aren’t your photos or even any shared memories.
Let those loved ones share those photographs with her and reminisce about them.
posted by calgirl at 10:35 PM on September 22, 2023 [7 favorites]

The Facebook posts sound like an invitation to her friends, so you're invited. You have the budget for one visit a year, and you haven't made this year's visit yet? Go now, and plan "next year's" visit for as soon as your friend would prefer, even if it's this Thanksgiving.

A photo book is a lovely idea, but if your only source of photos is her family's social media, that would strike me as odd. On preview, seconding calgirl.
posted by doift at 10:41 PM on September 22, 2023

Best answer: Given that the service is private, and it would not be expected for people who are close to travel just for the shiva minyan, that travel is expensive and you won't be able to make two trips close together, I would opt not to go on Wednesday but do go soon. I think I would reach out, let her know that you are thinking of her and suggest that you can would like to visit in October or early November. Then follow up after the service to stay in touch and also repeat the offer to come visit.
posted by metahawk at 10:47 PM on September 22, 2023 [5 favorites]

describes itself "an inclusive egalitarian synagogue affiliated with the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism." I have no idea what that means or whether it's germane.

Egalitarian means genders are treated equally. This is important for the minyan because it means that all genders and not just men will be counted for the minyan (quorum for prayers). It also means that people who's connection to Judaism is through their father only don't count, since that's the Conservative movements' stance. In the context of nichum aveilim, the gist is "if you're Jewish through matrilineal descent please show up and help us make a minyan so the mourners can say kaddish."

Also as an FYI, for weighing whether to go now: there may be another chance to come out, six months or so from now, for a tombstone unveiling. Those are usually more sparsely attended, usually only by family, but it's often a chance for folks who couldn't make the short turnaround to show up for the funeral to come pay their respects. You could still show up now, but just know that this could be an option.
posted by damayanti at 11:53 AM on September 23, 2023

Best answer: You're a kind friend. You don't have to make this decision by yourself! Just call her and ask (text if she doesn't pick up.) "I saw on FB that your mom passed. I want to come and help and support you through this. Shall I come now for the shiva or would it be better to visit in a few weeks?"
posted by fingersandtoes at 12:28 PM on September 23, 2023 [2 favorites]

I agree with those who say that scraping photos of somebody else's mother from other people's social media and putting them into a photo album would be weird and even a little creepy if you do it unasked. I understand that it comes from a genuinely loving and caring place-- it must be frustrating to be so far away from you friend and unable to do much in a time of real emotional need! So I definitely understand the urge to do something.

But if you've made a donation and sent your friend a condolence note, you've already done something. And if you continue to stay in touch and support them as time passes (and other people perhaps fade away in their support), you will be doing a lot.
posted by yankeefog at 1:37 AM on September 24, 2023

Response by poster: Thanks, everyone, for helping me figure out the right path. I took the advice and got in touch with my friend. The tenor of our conversation persuaded me to abandon my photo album idea without ever raising it, to write a condolence letter, and to attend the minyan by Zoom; even her children and a sibling participated remotely. We're going to have a weekend getaway later this year along with another bestie from college.

I really appreciate your ideas and also your understanding that I was hopped up on wanting to support my friend while also uncertain about the mechanics of the shiva/minyan and what might be appropriate behavior. Everything wound up feeling just right.
posted by carmicha at 12:47 PM on October 4, 2023 [4 favorites]