Help me game out my manual car future
September 8, 2023 5:44 PM Subscribe
#chatfilter I want to be driving a manual car for as long as possible. What is the optimal car purchase to make in the near future to ensure that?
Before heading under the fold, please note that EVs and hybrid plugins are NOT options for lifestyle reasons. Thus discussion of anything other than a manual transmission gas vehicle is considered noise and flagged accordingly.
For the first time in my life I have an essentially obligate car commute. That fucking sucks, but I love my job. I also love my car, a 2006 Subaru Forester, which with a brand new clutch, drives like a stealth bomber, if a bomber had cargo space.
But I know that time makes fools of us all, and that the Forester is not going to last forever. I've resigned myself to the idea that if I'm going to continue driving manuals as long as I can, I'm going to have to buy a new used car soonish. So, if you'd be so kind, help me game out my next car move while optimizing for the following factors:
Musts:
• Straight manual. no CVT no clutchless whatever, no, just manual. please and thank you.
•Enough space in the rear to throw a bike in without removing a wheel. Ideally while accommodating 2 people.
•Recent enough that there are plenty of parts, either OEM or otherwise that repairs are not going to be onerous... in the next 10-15 years.
Preferred:
•Allwheel drive. On plowed-in Chicago streets, I've never been stuck in a parking spot. I've had Subarus for so long that I've come to take it for granted.
•Undouchy brand identity.
Questions about the WRX may follow.
Paranoid/easily annoyed rantings:
•I want a car that doesn't track me, or keep track of its surroundings and alert me to things I already knew were there in any way shape or form. Most modern cars do this in some way and it is infuriating. So, if recommending a later model car, please note whether all the additional bullshit and tracking can be turned off/deleted/obviated.
Brands I'm considering and would like feedback on:
•Subaru (later WRX vs earlier Forester or Crosstrek)
•Mazda (can the 3 handle bikes?)
•Mini (maintenance?)
•Honda Si (anything?)
Brands I'm not going to consider for reasons:
•VW (and anything in that group)
... and i'd like to keep any prospective purchases below 35K.
For the first time in my life I have an essentially obligate car commute. That fucking sucks, but I love my job. I also love my car, a 2006 Subaru Forester, which with a brand new clutch, drives like a stealth bomber, if a bomber had cargo space.
But I know that time makes fools of us all, and that the Forester is not going to last forever. I've resigned myself to the idea that if I'm going to continue driving manuals as long as I can, I'm going to have to buy a new used car soonish. So, if you'd be so kind, help me game out my next car move while optimizing for the following factors:
Musts:
• Straight manual. no CVT no clutchless whatever, no, just manual. please and thank you.
•Enough space in the rear to throw a bike in without removing a wheel. Ideally while accommodating 2 people.
•Recent enough that there are plenty of parts, either OEM or otherwise that repairs are not going to be onerous... in the next 10-15 years.
Preferred:
•Allwheel drive. On plowed-in Chicago streets, I've never been stuck in a parking spot. I've had Subarus for so long that I've come to take it for granted.
•Undouchy brand identity.
Questions about the WRX may follow.
Paranoid/easily annoyed rantings:
•I want a car that doesn't track me, or keep track of its surroundings and alert me to things I already knew were there in any way shape or form. Most modern cars do this in some way and it is infuriating. So, if recommending a later model car, please note whether all the additional bullshit and tracking can be turned off/deleted/obviated.
Brands I'm considering and would like feedback on:
•Subaru (later WRX vs earlier Forester or Crosstrek)
•Mazda (can the 3 handle bikes?)
•Mini (maintenance?)
•Honda Si (anything?)
Brands I'm not going to consider for reasons:
•VW (and anything in that group)
... and i'd like to keep any prospective purchases below 35K.
The MINI is a really fun manual. It is also, in my experience with the S trim, not a great long-term car because it uses plastic parts for critical components in a hot running engine and burns oil in spec.
But it is really fun to drive.
posted by zippy at 6:01 PM on September 8, 2023
But it is really fun to drive.
posted by zippy at 6:01 PM on September 8, 2023
I drive a 2016 Mazda CX-5 manual. It's 8 years old with 175k miles (I travel for work), and has been an absolute trooper. It's needed and gotten nothing but fluids, filters, and tires in that time. With the back seats down it can fit my girlfriend's bike with the wheel on. For my bike to fit, a wheel has to come off.
The bad news: AWD and manual were not available in the same car, at least during that model year. To get a manual, I had to buy the absolute lowest-tier stripped model. That means no fancy tracking software, though! I'm not sure of the current availability of Mazda manuals with AWD.
posted by agentofselection at 6:10 PM on September 8, 2023
The bad news: AWD and manual were not available in the same car, at least during that model year. To get a manual, I had to buy the absolute lowest-tier stripped model. That means no fancy tracking software, though! I'm not sure of the current availability of Mazda manuals with AWD.
posted by agentofselection at 6:10 PM on September 8, 2023
Does it have to be a car? Does it have to be new? Does it have to be left-hand drive? If not, Subaru makes an AWD manual Sambar truck that seats two and has a bed you can throw all kinds of stuff in. Model years seem to stop around 1998, which is only a couple years after the Internet took off, so it is unlikely there are any tracking electronics. No idea on part availability but these things are still sold, so I imagine that you may be able to order parts from Japan. Sites like jdmexport.com and similar have listings that you can browse through; or just search your favorite engine for "sambar". You'll definitely be under your $35k budget.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:03 PM on September 8, 2023
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:03 PM on September 8, 2023
I don't think there's a new car* available in the US market that both offers a manual and will have room inside for a bike - the closest would probably be the '23 Impreza/Crosstrek (the manual is gone for '24), but I think even that may be a bit too small for you.
If you like your Forester, you might just be happiest with a newer Forester. Looks like they were available in manual until 2018 - with upkeep, those should have a decade+ of life left in them.
*emphasis on car - looks like there's still technically a manual Tacoma pickup.
posted by kickingtheground at 8:51 PM on September 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
If you like your Forester, you might just be happiest with a newer Forester. Looks like they were available in manual until 2018 - with upkeep, those should have a decade+ of life left in them.
*emphasis on car - looks like there's still technically a manual Tacoma pickup.
posted by kickingtheground at 8:51 PM on September 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
Here is a complete list of your options if you want to by a new car through regular dealer channels in North America.
The only things on this list that look like they could carry a bike (inside, rather than on an exterior rack) are the Crosstrek, the Ford Bronco, and the two trucks. You can certainly fit a bike in the rear gate of a Crosstrek if you fold the back seats down (1, 2). You can maybe squeeze one in the Golfs, the Impreza and the Mazda 3. The rest are sedans or too small.
Given your good experience with Subarus, you should get a 2023 Crosstrek if you can find one. I would call a Subaru dealer asap. These are only available in the two lowest Crosstrek trim levels, so budget shouldn't be a problem. But they're rare. Good luck!
Along with the 2023 Impreza this will be the last manual non-WRX/BRZ Subaru of North America vehicles. I have no opinion about WRX/BRZ Subarus other than they are more expensive for reasons that are nothing to do with your stated requirements and there is no way you will get a bike in one, but if you want to wait as long as possible to get a manual vehicle with a Subaru badge then they're your best bet.
Subaru's electronic smart safety features ("EyeSight") sound like they will annoy you, so the good news is they are not available on manual. (If that information is wrong and you end up with a manual with EyeSight then, assuming your Subaru is like mine: blind spot detection and lane drift, the two main EyeSight features, can both be shut off.) I couldn't find anything definitive, but a new manual car is unlikely to have a automatic start-stop for obvious reasons.
posted by caek at 9:04 PM on September 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
The only things on this list that look like they could carry a bike (inside, rather than on an exterior rack) are the Crosstrek, the Ford Bronco, and the two trucks. You can certainly fit a bike in the rear gate of a Crosstrek if you fold the back seats down (1, 2). You can maybe squeeze one in the Golfs, the Impreza and the Mazda 3. The rest are sedans or too small.
Given your good experience with Subarus, you should get a 2023 Crosstrek if you can find one. I would call a Subaru dealer asap. These are only available in the two lowest Crosstrek trim levels, so budget shouldn't be a problem. But they're rare. Good luck!
Along with the 2023 Impreza this will be the last manual non-WRX/BRZ Subaru of North America vehicles. I have no opinion about WRX/BRZ Subarus other than they are more expensive for reasons that are nothing to do with your stated requirements and there is no way you will get a bike in one, but if you want to wait as long as possible to get a manual vehicle with a Subaru badge then they're your best bet.
Subaru's electronic smart safety features ("EyeSight") sound like they will annoy you, so the good news is they are not available on manual. (If that information is wrong and you end up with a manual with EyeSight then, assuming your Subaru is like mine: blind spot detection and lane drift, the two main EyeSight features, can both be shut off.) I couldn't find anything definitive, but a new manual car is unlikely to have a automatic start-stop for obvious reasons.
posted by caek at 9:04 PM on September 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
Validation of your "Paranoid/easily annoyed rantings": there are no modern cars for the US that meet your privacy criteria. The article may have more details that you find useful in your search.
posted by aniola at 9:59 PM on September 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by aniola at 9:59 PM on September 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
But I know that time makes fools of us all, and that the Forester is not going to last forever.
Perhaps not, but, with the new clutch, your current Forester would seem to be the car you’re looking for.
How many miles are on your Forester? With a bit of TLC, old Subarus can keep on chugging along, racking up the miles.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:45 AM on September 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
Perhaps not, but, with the new clutch, your current Forester would seem to be the car you’re looking for.
How many miles are on your Forester? With a bit of TLC, old Subarus can keep on chugging along, racking up the miles.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:45 AM on September 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for all the thoughtful replies thus far...
I know that my criteria pull strongly towards Subarus, however, i'm trying to expand my search space. Does anyone have any experience with the Honda Civic Si?
posted by Cold Lurkey at 6:11 AM on September 9, 2023
I know that my criteria pull strongly towards Subarus, however, i'm trying to expand my search space. Does anyone have any experience with the Honda Civic Si?
posted by Cold Lurkey at 6:11 AM on September 9, 2023
I have no specific experience with the Si or with manual Civics, but we did have a regular automatic Civic before we switched to Subarus. It’s a great car. At the risk of stating the obvious, however, the Si Civic is available only as a compact sedan. There is no hatchback option. You will not get an adult bike in it.
posted by caek at 7:02 AM on September 9, 2023
posted by caek at 7:02 AM on September 9, 2023
We just went from an automatic 2006 Forester to a 2021 Crosstrek. We had the opportunity to test drive two essentially identical 2021s, one manual and one CVT. Both felt like upgrades to our Forester. For our needs the CVT won out as it had a 2.5 L engine vs a 2.0 and we do tow a small trailer, but both felt like good options and it was a hard choice.
The rear cargo space is only 5 cubic feet smaller than our old Forester, in which we used to squeeze 2 bikes from time to time. The new Forester is a bigger vehicle than the 2006, so it feels like the Crosstrek is the more natural successor. I would check to confirm that you can get a bike in with both wheels still on though, as the back hatch is smaller.
I am unsure how much tracking the car does. I think the manual version (with no Eyesight as caek rightly points out) is probably minimal. No apps needed, all features available without subscription, most driving assistance features able to be turned off if desired. Best part of the UI is minimal interaction with touchscreens required for normal functions needed while driving. Somehow Subaru has resisted the trend of ditching knobs!
posted by snoboy at 8:25 AM on September 9, 2023
The rear cargo space is only 5 cubic feet smaller than our old Forester, in which we used to squeeze 2 bikes from time to time. The new Forester is a bigger vehicle than the 2006, so it feels like the Crosstrek is the more natural successor. I would check to confirm that you can get a bike in with both wheels still on though, as the back hatch is smaller.
I am unsure how much tracking the car does. I think the manual version (with no Eyesight as caek rightly points out) is probably minimal. No apps needed, all features available without subscription, most driving assistance features able to be turned off if desired. Best part of the UI is minimal interaction with touchscreens required for normal functions needed while driving. Somehow Subaru has resisted the trend of ditching knobs!
posted by snoboy at 8:25 AM on September 9, 2023
One of my friends drives a manual Chevy Sonic; totaled it and bought another one, just a year newer. I don't know if you can get an adult bike in it the hatchback, but they do fit a ton in there, and I don't know how long they made/will make a manual for it, but he loves it.
posted by Ms Vegetable at 8:52 AM on September 9, 2023
posted by Ms Vegetable at 8:52 AM on September 9, 2023
Hyundai has phased out manuals, but you might be able to find new-ish used models. My parents have two manual Hyundais, one as a hatchback (could fit a bike), one is a sedan (forget exact date).
posted by coffeecat at 9:25 AM on September 9, 2023
posted by coffeecat at 9:25 AM on September 9, 2023
Throwing it out there, we had a Subaru Impreza manual (2015?) and the first day I had it I considered leaving it on the side of the road in bumper to bumper traffic to JFK. I warmed slightly to it, but that gear box was miserable, and I love driving manual. The forester might be more forgiving, or you are a stronger person than I, but please test drive it and dont assume subaru manuals are all the same.
Husband had a WRX and loved it, it also survived 2 accidents with only cosmetic damage. I think you would have to hunt to find a used with a hatchback (they phased those out, otherwise we would have gotten it instead of the Impreza). I think a not bright blue not tricked out no giant spoiler WRX hatchback flies pretty under the douche radar. You can always take the identifying WRX lables off it too.
Do you have to park in a parking garage at work? If not, I would consider the Bronco or Tacoma (the height restrictions can be an expensive pain in the ass). Broncos are great looking and very customizable. We were down to deciding between an F150 or a tacoma, and we went with the F150, but the tacoma had a lot going for it- its not a beast like the F150, so its easy to fit into parking spots/street park, felt great on dirt roads and is just all around a solid truck. The joy of being able to just throw things in the back of one cannot be overstated, especially if you are always bringing bikes and gear around. Hose down too.
posted by zara at 6:22 PM on September 9, 2023
Husband had a WRX and loved it, it also survived 2 accidents with only cosmetic damage. I think you would have to hunt to find a used with a hatchback (they phased those out, otherwise we would have gotten it instead of the Impreza). I think a not bright blue not tricked out no giant spoiler WRX hatchback flies pretty under the douche radar. You can always take the identifying WRX lables off it too.
Do you have to park in a parking garage at work? If not, I would consider the Bronco or Tacoma (the height restrictions can be an expensive pain in the ass). Broncos are great looking and very customizable. We were down to deciding between an F150 or a tacoma, and we went with the F150, but the tacoma had a lot going for it- its not a beast like the F150, so its easy to fit into parking spots/street park, felt great on dirt roads and is just all around a solid truck. The joy of being able to just throw things in the back of one cannot be overstated, especially if you are always bringing bikes and gear around. Hose down too.
posted by zara at 6:22 PM on September 9, 2023
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