Is law school a safe bet?

May 3, 2006 5:36 PM

Is now as good a time as any to assume massive debt to attend law school?

Ive been accepted to a Top-20 law school and have everything in front of me ready to go in the mail and seal the deal. I just cant bring myself to send it off knowing that Ill be committing to 100k+ in debt in the face of rising intrest rates and inflation, plus who knows what else with the current crazy economy situation.

But my current job is dead-end fast food, and I graduated with a useless history degree from a bottom-feeder state university.

The legal career itself is not an issue, I have several paths to relative happiness depending on how law school plays out, and Im not THAT worrried about hating being a lawyer. (ok, maybe a little worried)

Is it a fairly safe bet to mortage the next 20 years of my life to enter an already crowded, competative field? Would waiting a year just make it a worse prospect?

posted by T.D. Strange to education (17 comments total)

I'll be honest with you: Don't go unless you really really really wanna go.

If you really wanna go, the question of debt shouldn't even be an issue.

If you study hard and end up in the top 10% of your class, you can pay off law school (depending on where you attend) within 3 years if you live smart.
posted by bamassippi at 5:50 PM on May 3, 2006

Debt should be an issue. Choose your school at least in part based on debt. If you study hard and end up in the top 10% of your class (which you can't count on, so don't), you might be able to pay off law school in a not super long time, but only if you take a job that you may not want, working hours that you certainly don't want to work.

Don't go to law school unless you really, really, really want to be a lawyer. Don't go into massive debt for law school unless you want to be a lawyer so bad that you don't care if you make much money doing it.

There are non-lawyer things you can do with a law degree. But if you're going to do one of them, then law school is just an expensive waste of 3 years.

(so really, I agree with bamassippi, except that you can't count on graduating in the top 10%, and I think a 3-year payoff is totally unrealistic even then)
posted by JekPorkins at 5:56 PM on May 3, 2006

I've been a lawyer three years. I went to a top-10 school. I have 80K in debt. I love my job. I would do it all over. But I knew I wanted to be a lawyer.

If i wasn't sure that I wanted to be a lawyer, I would still go to law school - but I would do it at a local school, as long as I knew where I wanted to live when I was done, or I would have gone to the school where I was offered a scholarship. And, if you got into a top 20, then some school ranked between 30 and 50 will give you a full ride.

It's all kinds of trade offs. But if sending the letter is causing you distress, maybe you aren't ready for the debt commitment.
posted by dpx.mfx at 6:01 PM on May 3, 2006

I didn't go to law school, but I did get a Ph.D. Same debt burden, and in my case, a lower salary than many attorneys. Nevertheless, I consider my education a great investment, because I can't imagine myself doing anything other than what I do, and my degree is essential for my job. Hence, what others have said is spot on: if you have a burning desire to practice law, then dive in. It's not about money. If you're not so sure, then dpx.mfx is right. Forego law school at Ivy U and attend State U for free instead. (in fact, maybe you should do that anyway . . .)
posted by Crotalus at 6:35 PM on May 3, 2006

You would be far from alone attending law school when you're not sure if you want to be a lawyer. From Learned Hand:

You see, the family had all been lawyers . . . . And there it was. Law has always been a kind of slop box for boys who don't know what else they want to do anyway. It's decent and it may lead to something or it may not. So I found myself in the law school. And there were a lot of men I knew who had gone in for the same reason -- they didn't know what else to do.

That certainly describes my experience (minus the family full of lawyers).
posted by magwich at 7:53 PM on May 3, 2006 [1 favorite]

$100k for 2 years? Wow.

Realistically, (based on my own debt $50k and payments $500/mo) You're looking at $1,000 a month in payments.

Will you make more then $1000+ your current sallary as a lawyer?

If the answer is yes, then you should go to law school.

On the other hand it's not like you need to be a lawyer or a fast food person, you could get a teaching cert and become a high school history teacher or something.
posted by delmoi at 7:53 PM on May 3, 2006

And I should ad that I was pleasantly surprised to find that I really enjoyed the law. Of course, personal enjoyment may vary.
posted by magwich at 7:53 PM on May 3, 2006

FWIW, a friend of mine was in a similar situation, he graduated with a FILM degree from a state school (a pretty good one though) and was basically directionless after that. He was living with his parents (and driving them nuts) and working at fucking k-mart, at a phone center and then at a factory.

Anyway, now he's in law school in San Francisco getting a law degree while in his spare time persuing his true passion, smoking pot and banging hot chicks he meets on myspace.
posted by delmoi at 7:56 PM on May 3, 2006

My mother has given me a great piece of advice that has always served me well:

"Never think twice about investing in yourself. Its the most sound - and most rewarding - investment you can make."

What else are you going to do with that money? Buy some stuff?
posted by ChasFile at 8:21 PM on May 3, 2006

Law school in the US takes three years, delmoi.

If you borrow at a fixed rate, you want inflation. And if you want to be the kind of lawyer that makes a lot of money, you should go to the best law school you can get into. If you want to work in public interest (or something like that), go to the cheapest law school you can find.

If you're not sure that you want to be an attorney, do something else for two years and reconsider. I have no evidence (so I am talking out of my arse) but I'd bet that over 50% of JDs regret choosing to go to law school.
posted by Kwantsar at 10:18 PM on May 3, 2006

don't go unless you really, really want to.

if you go half-heartedly, you'll regret it.
posted by ab3 at 12:48 AM on May 4, 2006

I went to law school - to a top school, just like a school that you're considering. I turned down a full ride scholarship at a less "prestigious" local school, and you could probably get the same offer if you tried. Now I'm stuck working 90 hours a week in a job that I hate, just to make my debt payments and pay off my debt quickly. Bottom line: if you take on that $100,000 debt, then you will work really, really hard for, say, 14 years, at which point (if you're very lucky and very disciplined) your debt will be paid off and your net worth will be precisely what it is now - $0. The only difference is, you'll be older, tired, and bald.

Please strongly consider going to the best law school that you can get into that is free for you. This may close some doors on the "prestigious" large firm jobs and appellate court clerkships, but if you're not sure that you want to commit to the law, then what do you care? Are you really willing to pay $100,000 out of your own pocket (more, when you figure in the interest) to buy your way into those jobs? And, besides, if you do very well at the local law school, you'll still get the great jobs - a friend of mine took a full ride at a local Midwestern law school (which is not highly ranked) and now she works for Skadden.

Remember: once you have that debt, you have no choice but to pay it off. You can't return your law degree. Bankruptcy won't get rid of it. And very few jobs pay enough to allow you to service your law school debt plus your inevitable mortgage. Debt narrows your freedom, in other words.

And, if you can defer your acceptance for a year (many schools will do this for you if you ask) strongly consider working as a paralegal for a year before law school. Not only will it help you to understand what's going on (and give you a leg-up in terms of grades) but it'll help you to understand what it is you're signing on for.
posted by gd779 at 6:20 AM on May 4, 2006

But I see that I missed an entire segment of the question. You also wanted to know whether waiting another year will make your situation better or worse.

There's really no way to tell. Regarding interest rates, bear in mind that your debt will likely be paid off over 20 years (though, with respect to federal loans, you may be able to consolidate and lock in a law fixed interest rate). There's no real way to tell what the interest rates are going to do, but they're not likely to increase sharply over the course of a single year. I wouldn't worry about it.

Your much bigger concern, frankly, is going to be the job market during the year that you graduate. Your ability (or not) to find that plum law firm job right out of school will mean far more to you than any marginal increase or decrease in the interest rates. But who knows what the market will be like in three years? If you're going to a "Top 20" school, then it's likely you'll be able to find some kind of legal job, whatever your grades - it just may not pay too much, in the worst case scenario. But, again, that's always a risk.

Bottom line is, this year is probably as good as any other.
posted by gd779 at 6:37 AM on May 4, 2006

T.D. Strange - short anwer: take off a year and get some more experience in law to make a smart decision.

I graduated as a literature major and worked two years as a paralegal in one of the top corporate law firms in new york city. The hours were excruciatingly long and painful, but I actually really liked the work. I found that skilled, smart people rose to the top quickly - much more than other industries in which I have experience.

However, I was also surrounded by miserable lawyers who went to law school and had no idea what the life was going to be like. Now NYC might be a most extreme case, but all of these people were there because they felt they had to work in a place like that to pay off their debt. They certainly receive a rude awakening when they're making binders and photocopying documents. Most of these associates all had dreams of some idealistic law type job some years in the future, but eventually they just settled for some in-house counsel job, a smaller firm, or a switch to another big firm (which they didn't like any better). All said that they wished they tried working at a firm and getting some more experience there beforehand.

I would strongly recommend that you get some experience working in a firm, because honestly, if you go to a Top 20 school you are very likely to end up in one of them. I would say that 75% of the paralegals I knew decided against going to law school after initially wanting to and 75 % of the lawyer wish they hadn't gone to law school.

The other thing to bear in mind is that only your first year counts. Don't go into law school without being fully committed to it, because you need to do that first year well for recruitment. I would recommend that you big up a book called Law 101. Also, you might be interested in these Life of a Law Student podcasts. Finally, I would check out some of the law-related lectures and coursewares on this list.

So in short, get a job in a law firm, read up a bit, and give yourself a chance to make a smart decision. Also you can get a better sense of what you want to study (ie - do you like to cut and paste? Then you should do securities law! Do you like thumbing through 300 boxes of documents in middle america? Litigation is right for you!)

If this is a decision you want to make, go for the best school you can because the payoff is very likely more in the long run (lawyers can really look down on lesser schools...insecurity thing or what not).

FYI - I also just got into a top school in the US as well as full scholarships from some others. It was a tough decision but I decided not to do it because I live with my wife in Europe and we're very happy over here. That's another thing - American law is of relatively little value outside the US (except possibly NY securities law and to a lesser extent, arbitration).
posted by BigBrownBear at 7:24 AM on May 4, 2006

If this is a decision you want to make, go for the best school you can because the payoff is very likely more in the long run (lawyers can really look down on lesser schools...insecurity thing or what not).

Is your ego worth $100,000? Mine's not. If it's not, then do the financially smart thing - a top-ranked school is financially smart if you want to spend the rest of your life working for a large law firm, and you're willing to foreclose almost every other possibility. Otherwise, a full-ride to a lower ranked school (where you will likely achieve a higher class rank anyway) may be something to consider, given the price difference.
posted by gd779 at 10:07 AM on May 4, 2006

gd779. That's true. The school you go to will definitely affect the rest of your career moreso in law than other industries. That's all that I'm saying.
posted by BigBrownBear at 1:17 AM on May 9, 2006

The school you go to will definitely affect the rest of your career moreso in law than other industries.

Not really. Your class rank will have a greater effect on your career than what school you go to.

Look at the websites of the top firms in the country. With few, if any, exceptions. you'll find attorneys at every level of those firms who went to a broad cross-section of schools. Sure, there are lots of top 10 school alums, but you'll find alums of small regional schools among them, too.
posted by JekPorkins at 9:49 AM on May 9, 2006