We'd like to buy an acre from a neighbor. Is it as simple as asking?
August 1, 2023 5:37 AM Subscribe
We moved to the country two years ago and love not having neighbors in view. We'd like to keep it that way by buying an acre or so of the land across the road from us. What's the best way to approach the owner? Details (perhaps too many) inside.
The owner is an elderly woman whose parents once owned the house we live in. She's in assisted living due to advanced age and dementia, and her son is her trustee. I've spoken to him a few times about our house and his family, and he seems nice enough.
His mom owns two connecting parcels of land: The one directly across from us, from which we'd like to purchase the land, is 10 acres. Her former home is on this parcel, not visible from the road; the section we'd like to purchase isn't near the driveway and we have no plans to build on it, so in theory losing an acre would have no impact on a future owner. The second parcel is 17 wooded acres connecting to the first.
I have no sense of their plans for the land when she dies; there's no imminent threat of development, but I'd like to express our interest in case things move quickly after she dies.
Is it as simple as writing him a letter? Should we engage an attorney or real estate agent? We'd be willing to pay for a survey and would offer market rate (as it stands today), but I'd rather not overpay to outbid a developer. I'm aware that losing an acre of road frontage might make the overall parcel less appealing but assume it's best not to mention that.
Any other suggestions of how to approach, what to say, etc., would be appreciated. Thanks!
The owner is an elderly woman whose parents once owned the house we live in. She's in assisted living due to advanced age and dementia, and her son is her trustee. I've spoken to him a few times about our house and his family, and he seems nice enough.
His mom owns two connecting parcels of land: The one directly across from us, from which we'd like to purchase the land, is 10 acres. Her former home is on this parcel, not visible from the road; the section we'd like to purchase isn't near the driveway and we have no plans to build on it, so in theory losing an acre would have no impact on a future owner. The second parcel is 17 wooded acres connecting to the first.
I have no sense of their plans for the land when she dies; there's no imminent threat of development, but I'd like to express our interest in case things move quickly after she dies.
Is it as simple as writing him a letter? Should we engage an attorney or real estate agent? We'd be willing to pay for a survey and would offer market rate (as it stands today), but I'd rather not overpay to outbid a developer. I'm aware that losing an acre of road frontage might make the overall parcel less appealing but assume it's best not to mention that.
Any other suggestions of how to approach, what to say, etc., would be appreciated. Thanks!
I don't see any reason you should wait until the owner dies to speak to the family about buying one acre (not the house). The worst they can say is no. I don't think this will make you look bad. You'll have to cover all expenses for subdividing, etc.
You can expect the executor to move slowly after the owner dies and look for a buyer for the whole parcel, including the house.
The son (or later the executor) will have no motivation to deal with the hassle of subdividing the parcel, unless you offer a substantial premium over what you think is market value.
Your best chance of accomplishing what you want is to contact the son and offer to buy the whole parcel, now or later. I guess you could also offer to buy an option on the property, but again, unless it's a very slow market, I wouldn't think the son would want to deal with it at this time.
posted by JimN2TAW at 7:08 AM on August 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
You can expect the executor to move slowly after the owner dies and look for a buyer for the whole parcel, including the house.
The son (or later the executor) will have no motivation to deal with the hassle of subdividing the parcel, unless you offer a substantial premium over what you think is market value.
Your best chance of accomplishing what you want is to contact the son and offer to buy the whole parcel, now or later. I guess you could also offer to buy an option on the property, but again, unless it's a very slow market, I wouldn't think the son would want to deal with it at this time.
posted by JimN2TAW at 7:08 AM on August 1, 2023 [8 favorites]
Best answer: Hi, I looked into this extensively several years ago -- buying about 3 acres from a neighbor to extend my property. Ended up not going through with the purchase, but enough to figure out what was involved.
It is certainly worth asking these your neighbor first if they're even interested at all. It's a complex process, involving lawyers, and they need to be along for the ride.
You'll almost certainly want a real estate attorney. You can work out some of if this is possible yourself, but there are several legal maneuvers to be executed and if you mess any of them up you might end up thinking you own this land but not actually owning it. Your neighbor will also need a (different) real estate attorney to cover their side.
Then, you need to work out is whether zoning laws will even allow this. You can probably call your county recorder and ask, but if you get the attorney first they should know. There are several zoning regulations that might get in the way or make things more complicated. For example, my area has a 5-acre minimum parcel size, so if this were true in your area you couldn't do the simple thing and buy just that 1 acre as a separate parcel, you'd need to combine. And, if you buying that land left your neighbor with too small a lot, bad news. There are also issues like land use restrictions, water rights, access, easements, and so forth.
The actual sale and transfer could take a few different forms:
- Easy mode: your neighbor subdivides their property into two lots, and sells you the one you want.
- Harder: you and your neighbor mutually re-zone, moving the lot lines to move the acre you want into your property.
- Hardest: zoning laws somehow prevent this and you have to petition the county for an exception.
As you can see, your neighbor (or their attorney) needs to be an active partner in this; however you slice it, they kinda need to take the first step. I'd offer to cover your neighbor's legal fees as part of this.
Good luck!
posted by dorothy hawk at 7:18 AM on August 1, 2023 [15 favorites]
It is certainly worth asking these your neighbor first if they're even interested at all. It's a complex process, involving lawyers, and they need to be along for the ride.
You'll almost certainly want a real estate attorney. You can work out some of if this is possible yourself, but there are several legal maneuvers to be executed and if you mess any of them up you might end up thinking you own this land but not actually owning it. Your neighbor will also need a (different) real estate attorney to cover their side.
Then, you need to work out is whether zoning laws will even allow this. You can probably call your county recorder and ask, but if you get the attorney first they should know. There are several zoning regulations that might get in the way or make things more complicated. For example, my area has a 5-acre minimum parcel size, so if this were true in your area you couldn't do the simple thing and buy just that 1 acre as a separate parcel, you'd need to combine. And, if you buying that land left your neighbor with too small a lot, bad news. There are also issues like land use restrictions, water rights, access, easements, and so forth.
The actual sale and transfer could take a few different forms:
- Easy mode: your neighbor subdivides their property into two lots, and sells you the one you want.
- Harder: you and your neighbor mutually re-zone, moving the lot lines to move the acre you want into your property.
- Hardest: zoning laws somehow prevent this and you have to petition the county for an exception.
As you can see, your neighbor (or their attorney) needs to be an active partner in this; however you slice it, they kinda need to take the first step. I'd offer to cover your neighbor's legal fees as part of this.
Good luck!
posted by dorothy hawk at 7:18 AM on August 1, 2023 [15 favorites]
Best answer: This is a completely reasonable thing to just talk to your neighbor (or in their case your neighbor's son) about. Just be kind and reasonable and quick to walk away if they aren't amenable. You have no idea what their family is going through or how well they are handling end of life planning, etc. But you don't need attorneys or anything to talk to them and if they aren't receptive you can just stop there.
If they are receptive, what you need depends on where you live. Where I live to do this, I'd need a surveyor to help subdivide the neighbors land that would then have to be registered with the country's recorder or clerk, then you'd need to go through a closing company to help the actual purchase and register it with the county recorder. They'd need to sign two things (the subdivision part and the sale) and you'd have to sign the sale in order to close. The closing company would register everything with the county and then it would be done.
The surveyor will cost money. The closing company will cost money. Recording things with the county will cost money. The actual land purchase will cost money. Since you're initiating all of this, it may help if you offer to pay for all of that.
My neighbor and I swapped some land recently because his garage was built on my land before I built here and I wanted it off of my land. I paid $300 for a surveyor who did all the maths to figure out an equal swap and wrote the verbiage that needed to updated with the county. The surveyor sent his work to a closing company I chose. My neighbors and I had to go to the closing company to sign various things, but we didn't have to be there at the same time but everyone whose name is on the property title had to sign. The closing company charged $100. The closing company coordinated everything with the county clerk and the county clerk recording fee was $70 and we had to pay that twice.
Your situation might be more complicated. Our neighbors didn't materially participate in the above process in any way except signing things necessary for them to sign at the closing company. They weren't hostile in the process in any way, but I dealt with all the parties involves and left them out of it other than calling them and telling them the closing company I chose and that they needed to go sign some stuff.
I live in the US Midwest out in the country.
posted by cmm at 8:58 AM on August 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
If they are receptive, what you need depends on where you live. Where I live to do this, I'd need a surveyor to help subdivide the neighbors land that would then have to be registered with the country's recorder or clerk, then you'd need to go through a closing company to help the actual purchase and register it with the county recorder. They'd need to sign two things (the subdivision part and the sale) and you'd have to sign the sale in order to close. The closing company would register everything with the county and then it would be done.
The surveyor will cost money. The closing company will cost money. Recording things with the county will cost money. The actual land purchase will cost money. Since you're initiating all of this, it may help if you offer to pay for all of that.
My neighbor and I swapped some land recently because his garage was built on my land before I built here and I wanted it off of my land. I paid $300 for a surveyor who did all the maths to figure out an equal swap and wrote the verbiage that needed to updated with the county. The surveyor sent his work to a closing company I chose. My neighbors and I had to go to the closing company to sign various things, but we didn't have to be there at the same time but everyone whose name is on the property title had to sign. The closing company charged $100. The closing company coordinated everything with the county clerk and the county clerk recording fee was $70 and we had to pay that twice.
Your situation might be more complicated. Our neighbors didn't materially participate in the above process in any way except signing things necessary for them to sign at the closing company. They weren't hostile in the process in any way, but I dealt with all the parties involves and left them out of it other than calling them and telling them the closing company I chose and that they needed to go sign some stuff.
I live in the US Midwest out in the country.
posted by cmm at 8:58 AM on August 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
How can they trust that you won’t change your mind and build on the land? Or that the next owners won’t? Perhaps they can put the land in a trust, with you paying some agreed amount.
posted by at at 9:00 AM on August 1, 2023
posted by at at 9:00 AM on August 1, 2023
Best answer: Whatever you do, talk to the son now, while his mother is still alive. He’s not going to want to deal with a process like this if he’s trying to keep his head above water in the wake of her death.
posted by corey flood at 9:10 AM on August 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by corey flood at 9:10 AM on August 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
The road frontage is probably more valuable. Where I live, you can't subdivide a property in a way that removes access to a road.
posted by theora55 at 10:26 AM on August 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 10:26 AM on August 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
Well whatever you do, if this is at all a rural area, which it sounds like it is, do the first approach in person.
Also, expect to pay perhaps more than market rate if you're asking for frontage. I'm sure they're very aware that frontage is worth more than inside acreage.
You'll need a surveyor if you only taking part of a parcel. Again, if a rural area, a real estate agent in the area out there can probably assist with locating one and taking you through the steps of subdividing.
posted by Saucywench at 10:29 AM on August 1, 2023
Also, expect to pay perhaps more than market rate if you're asking for frontage. I'm sure they're very aware that frontage is worth more than inside acreage.
You'll need a surveyor if you only taking part of a parcel. Again, if a rural area, a real estate agent in the area out there can probably assist with locating one and taking you through the steps of subdividing.
posted by Saucywench at 10:29 AM on August 1, 2023
We had sort of the opposite issue, where somebody wanted to buy a part of our property so that they could subdivide their own property into multiple properties that meet minimum acreage requirements for our township. They didn't say this, but it was obvious. We told them no, because we don't want a subdivision in our backyard.
So definitely approach them first, to see if they're even interested, and don't be surprised if they are skeptical. Also, seconding that you need to talk to your local zoning folks, as the shape of the resulting properties can also matter. My township, for example, has a length-to-width ratio requirement, with a minimum amount of frontage, as well as significant requirements for easements on all sides. And they don't love odd-shaped properties.
posted by tempestuoso at 12:18 PM on August 1, 2023
So definitely approach them first, to see if they're even interested, and don't be surprised if they are skeptical. Also, seconding that you need to talk to your local zoning folks, as the shape of the resulting properties can also matter. My township, for example, has a length-to-width ratio requirement, with a minimum amount of frontage, as well as significant requirements for easements on all sides. And they don't love odd-shaped properties.
posted by tempestuoso at 12:18 PM on August 1, 2023
Just adding a thought - if the son isn't wealthy and his mother is in care, it's entirely possible they need the money badly. Assistive care residences are godawful expensive, and much worse when memory issues are involved. Your approach may end up being extremely welcome.
posted by invincible summer at 2:40 PM on August 1, 2023
posted by invincible summer at 2:40 PM on August 1, 2023
Best answer: You could just write a letter expressing interest and then work out the details later. You should give them idea of roughly which piece of the property you are interested in. I might even include a Google satellite photo with the area marked out so they can see what you are talking about (emphasizing that you are open to adjusting the boundaries if they have a preference). Second, let them know you are willing to put an entailment on the property in terms of how it can be used so if they sell it to you, it won't ruin their view or property values. Also be sure to include that you will be happy to buy at fair market value as determine by an independent assessor and you would pay all of the costs related to transferring the property.
After my father-in-law died, someone in their rural community heard that my mother-in-law was going to be moving and let us know that they were interested in buying the property. We let them know it wasn't for sale yet but when the time came, we did sell to them and it was a mutually beneficial deal.
posted by metahawk at 6:15 PM on August 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
After my father-in-law died, someone in their rural community heard that my mother-in-law was going to be moving and let us know that they were interested in buying the property. We let them know it wasn't for sale yet but when the time came, we did sell to them and it was a mutually beneficial deal.
posted by metahawk at 6:15 PM on August 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: This is an odd-ball approach and you would really need to talk to a lawyer before suggesting it to your neighbor, but what if you paid him to agree to a deed restriction that limited how that front acre could be used - for example no structures built in the designated section of the property. You could make a pretty generous offer (since you are willing pay up to the market value of the property) and it would be simpler than trying to change the property boundaries. As I said, talk to a lawyer first - they could tell you if it is possible, if there are any zoning issues and what type of restriction would best meet your goals. Then you try out the idea on the neighbor. Hopefully it will feel like free money to them, assuming that it is relatively unlikely that the next buyer would want to build in that section anyway.
posted by metahawk at 6:31 PM on August 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by metahawk at 6:31 PM on August 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
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