If I temporarily went to CA for ~6 months, would I be a resident?

July 5, 2023 11:58 AM

I'm thinking about continuing my chemo treatments in California with family, as living alone and taking chemo has been utterly hard, but am not sure of the ramifications if I do that, in terms of taxes? Would I be considered a part-time resident?

I talked with my boss about possibly doing that, and he said the policy is, as long as I am in California for 6 months or less, my duty station would not be changed. I would continue to have taxes be paid towards DC, and it would only be more than 6 months that I'd need to change my address, etc.

I would still be paying rent and be a full resident of DC, I'd just be in California to receive chemo treatments, work (fully remote) and return back to DC within ~6 months, with the support of my family. I would not plan to change addresses or anything like that.

I am not clear with California's actual policy of what a part-time/part-year resident is considered, and the length. I wouldn't be doing any actual work with any California companies or governments located inside California.

YANML, but figured I'd ask. Thanks!

posted by dubious_dude to Law & Government (17 answers total)

I know nothing on this topic workwise or residencywise (sounds like your work actually answered this), but you probably need to check with your health insurance as to whether or not your chemo activities can be transferred over. My HMO got Very Upset And Confused when I was at my parents' house during Christmas vacation (note: 1.5 hours away from "home") and I had to get a shot done during that time. Same HMO, but it was a whole lot of "But why aren't you getting it done at home? I don't know how to handle this!?" So that, to me, is what you really need to check on.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:08 PM on July 5, 2023 [7 favorites]

This whole thing is so complicated, you would probably need to talk to an actual payroll specialist familiar with CA law to know for sure. I have been told that if it is longer than 3-4 weeks in most states you are supposed to change your payroll address (so that the taxes are calculated appropriately to state, county, city). It's not really about who you work for or what you do, but that you are using their air and roads and stuff.

But what I would personally do is assume work was right and go stay in California and not worry about it. Do confirm insurance is going to be okay with this though.
posted by Lyn Never at 12:25 PM on July 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: The reason I asked this, and forgot to mention in the original Ask (damn brain fog) is because I've read various horror stories about California's tax board (FTB) and don't want to get on their bad side. If I were to change my duty station, it'd impact my insurance, too, and would become complicated. I tried researching their residential policies (what determines a California resident) but it's kind of vague.

FWIW, I work for the government in the DC area, so when my boss said their policy was less-than-6-months and a no duty station change, I trust them. It's California's FTB that I'm afraid of, and the complexity that comes with the change (and I would still be a DC resident through the whole time). I'd just simply be with my family to get chemotherapy, not living there. Does it sound like a grey area?
posted by dubious_dude at 12:41 PM on July 5, 2023

“Duty Station” sounds like federal government speak. If you have a federal job, they have all kinds of rules (and exceptions!) to how the world normally works with respect to things like where you work, etc. If your boss says that you can do this, they are almost certainly correct.

Reiterating everyone else’s concerns about health insurance. I am a fed, and getting things like chemo in an out of network place would be a whole huge thing. There are some federal health insurance options that have nationwide networks though.
posted by rockindata at 12:41 PM on July 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

CA Franchise Tax Board Guidelines to Residency. TLDR, there's no one thing that determines whether you're a resident, and you should consider the strength of your financial and social ties to DC before determining if you are a resident/partial resident of CA. (Your boss giving you six months and all your financials and rent being in DC would indicate you are not a CA resident IMO, but I am not the FTB of CA).
posted by assenav at 1:21 PM on July 5, 2023

I had a somewhat related thing going on in 2019/2020, when Mr. Dash and I spent some quality time in CA, and both worked remotely. There were three situations we considered, and did a fair amount of reading about the FTB. I was still employed by my PA employer, and worked remotely. This seemed the most straightforward/tame of the situations. Mr. Dash was employed by a CA company but, before and after 2019, was 100% remote, and that company pays PA taxes for him as a PA resident. In CA, however, despite still being officially "remote" he also worked at the company's office from time to time. This was more grey-area. In the end, we .... did nothing different, were paid direct deposit as usual, filed our taxes as PA residents (which we were, for more than 6 months of each year), and have heard no more about it. We never changed our mailing address or drivers' licenses or joined a club/gym or anything else that would establish residency in CA. One consideration for determining 'home' I read about was taking flights that originated in and returned to CA, which we did, but.

The third situation was and remained hypothetical, that his company might go public during our time in CA. If that had happened, it was definitely lawyer time. It did not happen.

Hope you are well.
posted by Dashy at 1:39 PM on July 5, 2023

I agree that you should go and not worry but, if you really are concerned (and it’s valid even if it’s unlikely to be problematic), you could consult with a lawyer or even simply the HR team responsible for your department. I’m not a federal employee but I am a teacher in a big district and there are people whose job is to figure out situations like this. It’s not for your benefit but rather for them to CYA. Still, it’s an option if you don’t want to ask a lawyer!

Again, I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this; it’s incredibly unfair. You are handling it all so well! I wish you luck and sending you lots of MeFi love!
posted by smorgasbord at 1:40 PM on July 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

See pg 5- https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/2022/2022-1031-publication.pdf

Coming into California
When you are present in California for temporary or transitory purposes, you are a nonresident of California.
For instance, if you come to California for a vacation, or to complete a transaction, or are simply passing through,
your purpose is temporary or transitory. As a nonresident, you are taxed only on your income from California sources.

When you are in California for other than a temporary or transitory purpose, you are a California resident. For
instance, if your employer assigns you to an office in California for a long or indefinite period, if you retire and
come to California with no specific plans to leave, or if you are ill and are in California for an indefinite recuperation period, your stay is other than temporary or transitory. As a resident, you are taxed on income from all sources.

This site might be useful as well (with the obvious caveat).

IIRC you have (had) Kaiser, which may be the bigger problem of if you can get coverage/care in CA.
posted by oceano at 1:44 PM on July 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

Yeah, I was wondering whether Kaiser might want to force you to be a CA resident b/c it would be cheaper for them somehow.
posted by Dashy at 1:49 PM on July 5, 2023

I think - get to California and work out the tax issue there with a California accountant. IANYL but you’re generally not going to end up paying taxes in 2 states. Even if you pay in the wrong state until you get a California opinion, it would just be a small penalty if anything.
posted by haptic_avenger at 1:55 PM on July 5, 2023

This is something where it'd be hard to get explicit permission, but quite easy to fly under the radar.

Does your workplace require you to use a VPN? That's one way they might know. If you're inclined, you can set up a VPN in front of that VPN.

Otherwise, if your insurance covers treatments in CA, go for it. For all anybody knows, you could just be going there for the duration treatments. Don't get a California driver's license. Don't buy real estate or sign a lease in California. Don't bring this up again with your boss. Don't tell your co-workers. Just do your work as usual, and deal with the time zone difference without bringing it up.

The benefits of getting chemo while being supported by family are so great that IMHO you are within ethical norms to bend the rules.
posted by dum spiro spero at 1:57 PM on July 5, 2023 [3 favorites]

I think there are several different liabilities here - the liability to the company of paying your taxes in the wrong state (which it sounds like you cleared), the possibility that if you file incorrectly, the FTB will come after you and you will net pay more taxes because CA taxes are higher than DC (plus all the time/lawyer/accountant headache), and any risk about insurance coverage.

For the second - FTB - I think it is important that “about 6 months” is definitely 179 days or less. If you do get audited/contacted by the FTB, I am told that having flight info, credit card statements that show you were in a particular place (like Starbucks charges), and keeping doctors/barbers/etc in the original state are all helpful for proving your residency. Is it possible for you to figure out what it would cost you if California decided you were a part year resident?

IANYL/A, just a person who really wanted to make sure my paperwork was in order when I moved in and out of California.

I’m sorry that you’re going through this.
posted by A Blue Moon at 2:15 PM on July 5, 2023

I'm gonna note that Kaiser is the HMO I mentioned as having problems with my temporarily moving location.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:30 PM on July 5, 2023

dubious_dude, is your family in California the same crew who threw protesting, post-surgery you in the lake in a recent question?

If it's the same relatives, and same loving-but-unreliable mother, maybe hiring someone local to assist you during chemotherapy will give you better outcomes, long-term? I think it's a good idea to keep close to your DC-based healthcare professionals, for this next phase of your treatment.

Maybe your family can be supportive by defraying the costs of hiring help for this defined span of time? Uprooting yourself, contending with family dynamics, worrying about legal and tax ramifications, and telecommuting from a different time zone are all really stressful, well before the "all while undergoing chemotherapy" portion.
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:04 PM on July 5, 2023 [7 favorites]

You need a CPA or a tax attorney to answer this question, as everybody pointed out, there are different definitions to worry about. FTB's definition, as pointed as, was "present in California for other than temporary or transitory purpose". Which you do not appear to be. But I am not a tax attorney who can answer this for you.
posted by kschang at 4:09 PM on July 5, 2023

Based on the FTB's guide, things that are going to work against you:
- location of your medical professionals
- location of your family
- you'll be hard-pressed to explain how a six-month continuous stay (even 179 days) is "temporary or transitory"

Things that will work for you:
- maintaining a DC residence
- not having a CA residence with your name on it
- location of your bank(s) (assuming they are not nationwide with branches everywhere, although even then, usually a bank will assign your account a "home" branch, so that could still play in your favor)
- the fact you're working fully remotely and you don't have a work assignment in CA
- having a DC driver's license and being registered to vote in DC (if you're not, do it before you leave)
- having a set period during which you will be receiving treatment; unlike the commenter above, to me this sounds like it's more of a set period than an indefinite recovery period. If it's open-ended, this is actually a large negative factor

As others have said, though, this is something you want to be sure about. HR in DC might not know; you may have to contact a CPA in CA yourself.
posted by tubedogg at 4:57 PM on July 5, 2023

The FTB uses nine months as long enough to be presumed as resident - see the same page 5 linked in the other answers. Since you will have a definite return date in less six months, plus you are not earning any money from a California source while you are here, and you are maintaining and returning to a job and a home in another state, I personally (a random internet person) would feel comfortable not worrying about it as long as your employer will be treating you as a DC resident during that time. (eg. withholding state and local taxes based on your permanent residence and not withholding any California taxes.) If HR was going to be withholding CA taxes, then you would have to file for a refund and prove your case - in that situation, I would consult an expert just to be on the safe side.
posted by metahawk at 12:41 PM on July 6, 2023 [1 favorite]