Manager found out I slagged her off, how would you deal with this?
June 18, 2023 9:26 AM Subscribe
Today has been awful. I am due to start a new job tomorrow and today I received a message from my previous manager saying that they had gone through Skype messages at my old job and she knows I said derogatory things about her.
The level of guilt and shame is immense. I will detail my idiot behaviour below. How can I deal with this.
I started my job last November.
I really really liked my manager. She is the first manager who I haven't been terrified of. She also was extremely warm friendly and supportive whilst having high standards - which I met. I can't exaggerate the comfort this brought for me.
Whilst I had been there I witnessed her being quite harsh to a colleague and pushing him out of his job. It wasn't personal but she didn't tolerate poor performance (even though this was often due to rushed and misjudged recruiting).
A new lady began in February. I became very close to her but her performance was not up to scratch. I witnessed my manager again begin the very harsh and unsupportive method of dealing with an underperformer.
I believe objectively, that her manner of dealing with underperformers was unnecessarily cruel and felt precariously close to bullying.
However, she loved me. She became my accounting supervisor and said she would be my mentor. We had a good working relationship.
However, I found myself caught in the middle in this situation and instead of remaining neutral, I dumbly found myself siding with my colleague.
Skype for business, was commonly used in the organisation and it felt like a personal method of communication, dangerously so. My manager would slag off budgetholders, swearing and calling them b*tches and then asked me to delete the messages.
Out of solidarity I started bitching about my manager to my colleague on Skype as well as through personal methods of communication.
I never dreamt they would be read.
However, after my colleague was pushed out she submitted a complaint (which I supported her with discreetly). I believe this led the organisation to read her Skype messages (neither of us deleted them).
I left a week ago, but this morning I received a message from my manager to say she was extremely disappointed in me. That she thought we had a good relationship and that I would now need to remove her as my official accounting mentor/supervisor.
I have sent an apology and an attempt at an explanation. However I know I have screwed up and hurt her and it feels unforgivable.
I was completely two faced with someone who had supported me so much, liked me and was a good manager to me because I wanted to have it both ways. I wanted to support my colleague and still have a good relationship with my manager.
I'm experiencing deep feelings of shame and guilt at this betrayal. Plus how dumb I was for messaging on Skype and failing to delete them when I left last week.
I'm questioning everything, at which point I decided to take this course of action.
I'm quite devastated and in a state, I am starting a new job tomorrow and feel a bit sick.
I would really appreciate any support or stories of anyone who has screwed up like this as work.
I started my job last November.
I really really liked my manager. She is the first manager who I haven't been terrified of. She also was extremely warm friendly and supportive whilst having high standards - which I met. I can't exaggerate the comfort this brought for me.
Whilst I had been there I witnessed her being quite harsh to a colleague and pushing him out of his job. It wasn't personal but she didn't tolerate poor performance (even though this was often due to rushed and misjudged recruiting).
A new lady began in February. I became very close to her but her performance was not up to scratch. I witnessed my manager again begin the very harsh and unsupportive method of dealing with an underperformer.
I believe objectively, that her manner of dealing with underperformers was unnecessarily cruel and felt precariously close to bullying.
However, she loved me. She became my accounting supervisor and said she would be my mentor. We had a good working relationship.
However, I found myself caught in the middle in this situation and instead of remaining neutral, I dumbly found myself siding with my colleague.
Skype for business, was commonly used in the organisation and it felt like a personal method of communication, dangerously so. My manager would slag off budgetholders, swearing and calling them b*tches and then asked me to delete the messages.
Out of solidarity I started bitching about my manager to my colleague on Skype as well as through personal methods of communication.
I never dreamt they would be read.
However, after my colleague was pushed out she submitted a complaint (which I supported her with discreetly). I believe this led the organisation to read her Skype messages (neither of us deleted them).
I left a week ago, but this morning I received a message from my manager to say she was extremely disappointed in me. That she thought we had a good relationship and that I would now need to remove her as my official accounting mentor/supervisor.
I have sent an apology and an attempt at an explanation. However I know I have screwed up and hurt her and it feels unforgivable.
I was completely two faced with someone who had supported me so much, liked me and was a good manager to me because I wanted to have it both ways. I wanted to support my colleague and still have a good relationship with my manager.
I'm experiencing deep feelings of shame and guilt at this betrayal. Plus how dumb I was for messaging on Skype and failing to delete them when I left last week.
I'm questioning everything, at which point I decided to take this course of action.
I'm quite devastated and in a state, I am starting a new job tomorrow and feel a bit sick.
I would really appreciate any support or stories of anyone who has screwed up like this as work.
A manager should expect that their employees have bad things to say about them simply because there is a power imbalance and just some stuff is unfair. Job roles are not reflections of personal self. It's natural to speak to people to air grievances and speak to coworkers differently than you speak to your boss. Its a reflection on her that she's this upset over that.
For you lesson learned don't complain on written communication corporate channels. Also blurring lines between friendship and boss makes these things more difficult.
Take gentle care and try not to think about this to much.
posted by AlexiaSky at 9:36 AM on June 18, 2023 [15 favorites]
For you lesson learned don't complain on written communication corporate channels. Also blurring lines between friendship and boss makes these things more difficult.
Take gentle care and try not to think about this to much.
posted by AlexiaSky at 9:36 AM on June 18, 2023 [15 favorites]
Your former manager, frankly, sounds terrible and unprofessional even if you escaped the worst of it. She set the norm for you that it was okay to be completely unprofessional over Skype. Yes, you should probably have realized on your own that it was a bad idea to use it for this purpose, but you were doing what you were being shown was okay at that workplace. Once you had those conversations they were backed up somewhere, so deleting last week would likely have been pointless.
You are better off without this person as your mentor. She was teaching you unprofessional work behavior, and treating other people badly enough that it likely would reflect badly on you to be tied to her professionally that way on an ongoing basis.
You’ve done all you needed to do here by apologizing. Now you can just move forward, taking with you some lessons about keeping use of workplace comms professional.
posted by Stacey at 9:51 AM on June 18, 2023 [60 favorites]
You are better off without this person as your mentor. She was teaching you unprofessional work behavior, and treating other people badly enough that it likely would reflect badly on you to be tied to her professionally that way on an ongoing basis.
You’ve done all you needed to do here by apologizing. Now you can just move forward, taking with you some lessons about keeping use of workplace comms professional.
posted by Stacey at 9:51 AM on June 18, 2023 [60 favorites]
It's unfortunate your former manager reacted as she did, but if she was a decent manager she should understand that one of the best ways for coworkers to bond is through "a common enemy", which is almost always a shared manager or other person in their leadership chain. And it sounds like you had a legit complaint, as well. Talking about these grievances is completely normal. And this is a textbook example of why being "friends" with someone in a position of power is so frought with issues. You've now learned your lesson about using corporate tools, so I'm guessing you wont be making that mistake again. One strategy I've learned over the years when in IM type conversations is to literally say "I'm not putting this in writing - wanna jump on a call?"
You're in a new job now, so it's in the past and is no consequence to your future. There's no sense in dwelling on the past - you can't change it, and you can only control how you deal with it. Your former manager is going to do what she's going to do as well. It's unfortunate she no longer wants to be your mentor, but it's not the end of the world and says more about her than you.
Be easy on yourself, stewing on it will only make it worse in your own head. Learn and move on and you'll be the better person. It'll be ok, trust me.
posted by cgg at 9:52 AM on June 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
You're in a new job now, so it's in the past and is no consequence to your future. There's no sense in dwelling on the past - you can't change it, and you can only control how you deal with it. Your former manager is going to do what she's going to do as well. It's unfortunate she no longer wants to be your mentor, but it's not the end of the world and says more about her than you.
Be easy on yourself, stewing on it will only make it worse in your own head. Learn and move on and you'll be the better person. It'll be ok, trust me.
posted by cgg at 9:52 AM on June 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
Agreeing 100% with Stacey above. In my experience, it was only a matter of time before that manager turned on you as well, it's in her nature, a reason would have been found, whether or not you provided it. I've had supervisors like that in the past. People are pretty consistent. You learned a valuable lesson, but IMHO further penance is unnecessary.
But ugh, I've had that feeling of the bottom dropping out of my stomach and it's awful.
posted by asavage at 9:57 AM on June 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
But ugh, I've had that feeling of the bottom dropping out of my stomach and it's awful.
posted by asavage at 9:57 AM on June 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
You have a history of judging yourself harshly and holding yourself to impossibly high standards. You don’t come off looking great here, but use it as an opportunity to move on an do better without undermining yourself. You have the gift of moving on here. We all mess up from time to time, but nothing is less productive than a shame spiral.
posted by rikschell at 10:00 AM on June 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 10:00 AM on June 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
She is now guilt tripping you on top of the previous love bombing, and letting you witness her unprofessional behaviour and bullying.
Did you ask her to be your mentor? Or did she volunteer? Because it's not good boundaries to volunteer. You can silently act as a mentor, without being asked, but it is another thing for someone to offer when they are your manager. Similar to making friends and inviting you to her house, offering to mentor puts the subordinate in a position where it is difficult for them to refuse and difficult for them to maintain boundaries.
It sounds like she is someone who tends to develop excessively good or excessively bad opinions of people and she first decided you were wonderful but that your coworkers were horrible, and has now shot to the position that you are horrible.
She was your mentor all right. She taught you to slander people on Skype. Do you really want to continue with someone who led you so far astray that you ended up feeling like you do now, drowning in guilt and shame?
You definitely DO NOT need to mend bridges with her. In fact what you did will probably protect you from her trying to maintain the relationship and you having to deal with her putting you on a pedestal, or over controlling you, or deciding that you are the antichrist.
Run. Maybe you slandered her over Skype because on some level you knew how much danger she was to you. Maybe you should be really glad, despite how unpleasant you feel now, that you were able to get away from her.
posted by Jane the Brown at 10:09 AM on June 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
Did you ask her to be your mentor? Or did she volunteer? Because it's not good boundaries to volunteer. You can silently act as a mentor, without being asked, but it is another thing for someone to offer when they are your manager. Similar to making friends and inviting you to her house, offering to mentor puts the subordinate in a position where it is difficult for them to refuse and difficult for them to maintain boundaries.
It sounds like she is someone who tends to develop excessively good or excessively bad opinions of people and she first decided you were wonderful but that your coworkers were horrible, and has now shot to the position that you are horrible.
She was your mentor all right. She taught you to slander people on Skype. Do you really want to continue with someone who led you so far astray that you ended up feeling like you do now, drowning in guilt and shame?
You definitely DO NOT need to mend bridges with her. In fact what you did will probably protect you from her trying to maintain the relationship and you having to deal with her putting you on a pedestal, or over controlling you, or deciding that you are the antichrist.
Run. Maybe you slandered her over Skype because on some level you knew how much danger she was to you. Maybe you should be really glad, despite how unpleasant you feel now, that you were able to get away from her.
posted by Jane the Brown at 10:09 AM on June 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
Oh, she can't remove herself as your supervisor. She was your supervisor at that job, that is the fact of who you reported to.
What you did was a bad idea, what she's done is WILDLY unprofessional and you should consider reporting her to HR. Discussing company communications with a former employee? That would get someone fired most of the places I've worked. Going through an ex-employee's messaging communications itself, without buy-in from HR, is pretty sketch. You could probably get her at least disciplined if you wanted to make any real effort.
Seriously, an HR department would be shitting itself over her actions.
She EARNED your shit-talking, though you should have been more discreet. She's a bad manager, which you saw over and over. Good management doesn't involve "pushing out" people over and over again. You fell for her love-bombing, and I'm sorry that this is causing you so much distress now, but had you stayed longer you too would have eventually "underperformed" when she needed another body thrown under the bus.
The correct amount of reaction to this is some mortification that you got caught showing your ass, for about 3 days' worth of cringing plus the occasional 3am "oh god I was so naive" re-review. You will never ever forget again that what you say at work is not private, for sure, which is the primary lesson you should take away here, along with the secondary lesson that being the fave of a bad manager always ends poorly.
Seriously consider forwarding the communication you received to HR and ask them to stop her contacting you again.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:12 AM on June 18, 2023 [28 favorites]
What you did was a bad idea, what she's done is WILDLY unprofessional and you should consider reporting her to HR. Discussing company communications with a former employee? That would get someone fired most of the places I've worked. Going through an ex-employee's messaging communications itself, without buy-in from HR, is pretty sketch. You could probably get her at least disciplined if you wanted to make any real effort.
Seriously, an HR department would be shitting itself over her actions.
She EARNED your shit-talking, though you should have been more discreet. She's a bad manager, which you saw over and over. Good management doesn't involve "pushing out" people over and over again. You fell for her love-bombing, and I'm sorry that this is causing you so much distress now, but had you stayed longer you too would have eventually "underperformed" when she needed another body thrown under the bus.
The correct amount of reaction to this is some mortification that you got caught showing your ass, for about 3 days' worth of cringing plus the occasional 3am "oh god I was so naive" re-review. You will never ever forget again that what you say at work is not private, for sure, which is the primary lesson you should take away here, along with the secondary lesson that being the fave of a bad manager always ends poorly.
Seriously consider forwarding the communication you received to HR and ask them to stop her contacting you again.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:12 AM on June 18, 2023 [28 favorites]
Honestly, this is not great behavior from either of you. What I'd want to do is:
1 - some kind of gesture or gift to her to give her a good, sincere feeling that she's done good in the world and affected you positively, and that you will carry her support and her good qualities with you forever. I'd tell her you accepted that your previous relationship was over, and that's OK; you're sorry you took some of those good feelings away from her with your ill-considered comments.
I would NOT mention directly that she modeled this behaviour and that you, as her mentee, bear ultimate responsibility for your behavior but might have been influenced by her, your mentor's, similar behavior. You also shouldn't mention that you ought to have learned to delete the dang mean messages by doing deleting of HER messages. But you can think it loudly, and if you're very very clever, you can allude to enough past experiences that she might think of it herself, someday. She probably won't though -- she doesn't sound super introspective, and you and I don't have the opportunity to help her become more so.
2 - look for a new mentor who is truly empathetic toward everyone. This is something you are primed to become skilled at, and if you learn it, you will become a great mentor yourself in the not-too-distant future.
It's not terrible that you have an opportunity to learn from someone with some insight that this lady seems to lack.
posted by amtho at 10:14 AM on June 18, 2023
1 - some kind of gesture or gift to her to give her a good, sincere feeling that she's done good in the world and affected you positively, and that you will carry her support and her good qualities with you forever. I'd tell her you accepted that your previous relationship was over, and that's OK; you're sorry you took some of those good feelings away from her with your ill-considered comments.
I would NOT mention directly that she modeled this behaviour and that you, as her mentee, bear ultimate responsibility for your behavior but might have been influenced by her, your mentor's, similar behavior. You also shouldn't mention that you ought to have learned to delete the dang mean messages by doing deleting of HER messages. But you can think it loudly, and if you're very very clever, you can allude to enough past experiences that she might think of it herself, someday. She probably won't though -- she doesn't sound super introspective, and you and I don't have the opportunity to help her become more so.
2 - look for a new mentor who is truly empathetic toward everyone. This is something you are primed to become skilled at, and if you learn it, you will become a great mentor yourself in the not-too-distant future.
It's not terrible that you have an opportunity to learn from someone with some insight that this lady seems to lack.
posted by amtho at 10:14 AM on June 18, 2023
Hey so I got caught out long ago for talking shit about my boss and coworkers over chat. It wasn't even work chat, but they got the messages and read them anyway. They brought it up while they were firing me--for something unrelated! A coworker was being sexually harassed, reported it, and they read HIS messages (he and I chatted on private gchat often) and determined that he and I were "colluding to bring a hostile workplace suit against them." Uh, we weren't, I was encouraging him to report the harassment. Anyway, they fired both of us and I've moved on to so much greater professional success that I've actually shared the details of everything that went on at that job with my HR coworkers at my new place as a cautionary tale.
Anyway, my point is, you can acknowledge that you should probably speak respectfully of your colleagues to your colleagues for personal protection's sake while also moving the heck on with your life.
Also, Steve, if you're so paranoid that you're seeing people "colluding" everywhere you go then maybe you should address your hostile workplace, hmmm?"
posted by phunniemee at 10:16 AM on June 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
Anyway, my point is, you can acknowledge that you should probably speak respectfully of your colleagues to your colleagues for personal protection's sake while also moving the heck on with your life.
Also, Steve, if you're so paranoid that you're seeing people "colluding" everywhere you go then maybe you should address your hostile workplace, hmmm?"
posted by phunniemee at 10:16 AM on June 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
If I were going to be embarrassed here it would be that I became close to someone who is not very nice, in the name of getting along and furthering my career.
Corporate life requires compromise and tolerating bad behavior is part of the game, but becoming close to and identifying with unpleasant people leads directly to situations like this.
However as always experience is the worst teacher: it always explains the lesson immediately after you need it. You’re going to feel bad for a bit, but make sure you take the lessons you’ve learned and apply them in the future.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:17 AM on June 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Corporate life requires compromise and tolerating bad behavior is part of the game, but becoming close to and identifying with unpleasant people leads directly to situations like this.
However as always experience is the worst teacher: it always explains the lesson immediately after you need it. You’re going to feel bad for a bit, but make sure you take the lessons you’ve learned and apply them in the future.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:17 AM on June 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Ad Hominem comment - (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
Jay, Manager is a horrid bitch whose mom dresses them funny. is not legit.
But if you tried to support a team member by fairly criticizing the manager, that's probably unwise, but not wrong. It's unwise because the manager may see it and retaliate.
Jay, I'm so sorry manager criticized you harshly and publically. is legit.
People spout off on messaging platforms, including Old Manager. Your old manager is hurt and acting out. You are aware that Old Manager uses Skype for ad hominem attacks. There's a distinct possibility that Old Manager learned from your comments; harch truths, but potentially useful.
I'm not certain if you're at a new position in the old company, or at a new company. In any case, she is, in fact, your former manager, and can't change that. You owed her an apology for saying hurtful things; you've done that.
need to remove her as my official accounting mentor/supervisor. She was your supervisor, that fact will not change. She's no longer your mentor.
it feels unforgivable. She doesn't sound forgiving. You made an error, it's not the worst, play Tetris to reduce your sense of trauma (really, it helps) and carry on.
I wanted to support my colleague and still have a good relationship with my manager. You learned a message about using company tools. Tons of people are friendly with 2 enemies, not an issue.
deep feelings of shame and guilt at this betrayal, quite devastated, in a state, feel a bit sick. Your task is to learn to manage overwhelming emotions. It's a useful skill. Take walks, read books, play Tetris. Re-create the narrative. You manager behaved badly and found out that people think she behaves badly. You are unlikely to be friends, but this is not worth guilt/ shame/ betrayal. Re-read the answers here, go start the new job and be successful.
posted by theora55 at 10:46 AM on June 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Jay, Manager is a horrid bitch whose mom dresses them funny. is not legit.
But if you tried to support a team member by fairly criticizing the manager, that's probably unwise, but not wrong. It's unwise because the manager may see it and retaliate.
Jay, I'm so sorry manager criticized you harshly and publically. is legit.
People spout off on messaging platforms, including Old Manager. Your old manager is hurt and acting out. You are aware that Old Manager uses Skype for ad hominem attacks. There's a distinct possibility that Old Manager learned from your comments; harch truths, but potentially useful.
I'm not certain if you're at a new position in the old company, or at a new company. In any case, she is, in fact, your former manager, and can't change that. You owed her an apology for saying hurtful things; you've done that.
need to remove her as my official accounting mentor/supervisor. She was your supervisor, that fact will not change. She's no longer your mentor.
it feels unforgivable. She doesn't sound forgiving. You made an error, it's not the worst, play Tetris to reduce your sense of trauma (really, it helps) and carry on.
I wanted to support my colleague and still have a good relationship with my manager. You learned a message about using company tools. Tons of people are friendly with 2 enemies, not an issue.
deep feelings of shame and guilt at this betrayal, quite devastated, in a state, feel a bit sick. Your task is to learn to manage overwhelming emotions. It's a useful skill. Take walks, read books, play Tetris. Re-create the narrative. You manager behaved badly and found out that people think she behaves badly. You are unlikely to be friends, but this is not worth guilt/ shame/ betrayal. Re-read the answers here, go start the new job and be successful.
posted by theora55 at 10:46 AM on June 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
You should not value the good opinion of bad people more highly than your own sense of right and wrong.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:54 AM on June 18, 2023 [21 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:54 AM on June 18, 2023 [21 favorites]
Honestly, fuck her.
1. You should never side with management over your coworkers.
2. It's perfectly fine to talk badly about management.
3. Don't do this on company-run communication methods.
4. Her reaction is completely bizarre and does not reflect on you at all.
posted by rhymedirective at 11:11 AM on June 18, 2023 [26 favorites]
1. You should never side with management over your coworkers.
2. It's perfectly fine to talk badly about management.
3. Don't do this on company-run communication methods.
4. Her reaction is completely bizarre and does not reflect on you at all.
posted by rhymedirective at 11:11 AM on June 18, 2023 [26 favorites]
I agree with people but just to focus on what you can do:
1. Break the stress cycle by dancing/singing/getting out for a run/swim/or whatever you can do in your body that is active and will spend the adrenaline you've built up. You do not have to have a perfect first day tomorrow in your new role, so no worries if you can't. But anything you can do to help yourself get back on your feet is good.
2. Start over. It's okay, people screw things up at work. You really did get a million dollar lesson here that people have not learned in lengthy careers.
3. Focus on your new job as much as possible. Whatever you were looking forward to, look forward to that.
4. Make plans to pay it forward. One day you will be the manager discovering your team did something stupid. At that time, you can share this story with them and then tell them not to do that and move on. That's what your manager should do.
I once received an email about myself not meant for me. It really hurt. Most of it was the kind of garbage people write about managers, but there was also some truth in it about things I could do better. Which made it hurt more. What I did was take a day to go visit some art galleries, and then I worked on myself and I never mentioned it. I'm sorry your manager didn't have the wherewithal to just Let. It. Go.
posted by warriorqueen at 11:44 AM on June 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
1. Break the stress cycle by dancing/singing/getting out for a run/swim/or whatever you can do in your body that is active and will spend the adrenaline you've built up. You do not have to have a perfect first day tomorrow in your new role, so no worries if you can't. But anything you can do to help yourself get back on your feet is good.
2. Start over. It's okay, people screw things up at work. You really did get a million dollar lesson here that people have not learned in lengthy careers.
3. Focus on your new job as much as possible. Whatever you were looking forward to, look forward to that.
4. Make plans to pay it forward. One day you will be the manager discovering your team did something stupid. At that time, you can share this story with them and then tell them not to do that and move on. That's what your manager should do.
I once received an email about myself not meant for me. It really hurt. Most of it was the kind of garbage people write about managers, but there was also some truth in it about things I could do better. Which made it hurt more. What I did was take a day to go visit some art galleries, and then I worked on myself and I never mentioned it. I'm sorry your manager didn't have the wherewithal to just Let. It. Go.
posted by warriorqueen at 11:44 AM on June 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
One thing I want to touch on is being or feeling close to your manager. I have been in this situation a few times; for whatever reason, the better I get on with the manager as a person, the worse of an actual manager they are. You end up putting on some blinkers about them because it's not impacting you, until it does. In your next role, focus more on your manager's overall effectiveness than their likeability and how well they treat you because as you've seen, once that changes, it changes everything.
Also --
Out of solidarity I started bitching about my manager
I've done this too. It's not solidarity, IMO, more like "misery loves company. " My advice is to think about how to be supportive in other ways than venting, it can become a downward spiral.
But honestly, overall? Learn from this and keep moving forward. Find a new mentor and focus on your fresh start.
posted by sm1tten at 12:44 PM on June 18, 2023
Also --
Out of solidarity I started bitching about my manager
I've done this too. It's not solidarity, IMO, more like "misery loves company. " My advice is to think about how to be supportive in other ways than venting, it can become a downward spiral.
But honestly, overall? Learn from this and keep moving forward. Find a new mentor and focus on your fresh start.
posted by sm1tten at 12:44 PM on June 18, 2023
I oversee a lot of folks. If I heard that a colleague of mine reached out to shame a former staffer of theirs... I would recommend a disciplinary action (because managers are there to manage, not to impose hard feelings). At best, this manager could alert you to the visibility of your communication record as a word of wise caution. Anything beyond that is excessive. I would apologize, surely, but I would also push back—what constructive purpose has this response served? If your manager can't name one that you feel is convincing, I would let her know that I would expect better from a mentor.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 3:04 PM on June 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 3:04 PM on June 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I am agreeing with everyone that your manager is out of line. People have complicated feelings about their leaders, and any time people start throwing around words like "betrayal" for normal behaviors that's a red flag.
Do you need an "official accounting supervisor/mentor"? It sounds like you've moved to a new org so she's not actually your supervisor any more. A mentor is nice but you want one who can help you develop as a professional and she's not it.
Chalk this up to a learning experience, but let your feelings of extreme guilt about this go.
posted by jeoc at 4:10 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Do you need an "official accounting supervisor/mentor"? It sounds like you've moved to a new org so she's not actually your supervisor any more. A mentor is nice but you want one who can help you develop as a professional and she's not it.
Chalk this up to a learning experience, but let your feelings of extreme guilt about this go.
posted by jeoc at 4:10 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Hell, I know somebody who sent a text to a group including his boss saying exactly what he thought of his boss. I think he had given his notice already but still had to interact with said boss before starting his new job. Everybody survived. He still even has a cordial relationship with former boss.
You will be ok. Your former supervisor is a jerk and who cares what she thinks? Please be kind to yourself.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 4:15 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
You will be ok. Your former supervisor is a jerk and who cares what she thinks? Please be kind to yourself.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 4:15 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think you've received lots of useful advice about how to move past this. Your former manager acted in a way that was inappropriate and out of line. However, I do think it worth adding that this is a really valuable lesson in the importance of staying out of workplace drama.
A new lady began in February. I became very close to her
However, I found myself caught in the middle in this situation and instead of remaining neutral, I dumbly found myself siding with my colleague.
Out of solidarity I started bitching about my manager to my colleague
This is not school; this is a workplace and you can maintain friendships while also behaving professionally. You can be friendly with a colleague without feeling you need to get involved in their work drama. It sounds like poor boundaries have been modelled to you in this workplace, notably by your former manager. You mention that she 'loved' you. A mentor and a good strong leader doesn't need to love you. Definitely in future I'd advise keeping workplace communications strictly professional; but also to stay out as much as possible of workplace drama involving other people.
posted by unicorn chaser at 4:48 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
A new lady began in February. I became very close to her
However, I found myself caught in the middle in this situation and instead of remaining neutral, I dumbly found myself siding with my colleague.
Out of solidarity I started bitching about my manager to my colleague
This is not school; this is a workplace and you can maintain friendships while also behaving professionally. You can be friendly with a colleague without feeling you need to get involved in their work drama. It sounds like poor boundaries have been modelled to you in this workplace, notably by your former manager. You mention that she 'loved' you. A mentor and a good strong leader doesn't need to love you. Definitely in future I'd advise keeping workplace communications strictly professional; but also to stay out as much as possible of workplace drama involving other people.
posted by unicorn chaser at 4:48 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
I do think it worth adding that this is a really valuable lesson in the importance of staying out of workplace drama
Yes, this is not high school and you aren't required to resolve social conflict between people you work with. Stop investing emotionally in your coworkers. They are coworkers, not your friends or your withholding parents or whoever it is they're standing in for in your psyche. No loving bosses, no being terrified of bosses (unless they're actually being abusive). And while talking smack about bosses among the fellow underlings is sometimes a necessary safety valve, stop doing it in writing!
But this is more about avoiding problems in the future. While you may feel bad now, since you are, in fact, starting a new job, I'm not sure there are many repercussions to worry about now. (She can't make you take her off your resume...she was your supervisor, that's a fact. And her reaching out to you...hoo boy, the unprofessionalism!) Just keep in mind how you feel now the next time you feel tempted to say something unkind about someone, especially in writing. I'm not going to say that you should never say anything about anyone you wouldn't be okay with their hearing. Life isn't like that. Feelings aren't always kind and managing them sometimes means finding a relatively harmless way to share them with someone else. But if you're feeling shame about what you wrote, then it sounds like it was out of line with your own values. Now you know how you feel when you're confronted with evidence of that.
posted by praemunire at 5:15 PM on June 18, 2023
Yes, this is not high school and you aren't required to resolve social conflict between people you work with. Stop investing emotionally in your coworkers. They are coworkers, not your friends or your withholding parents or whoever it is they're standing in for in your psyche. No loving bosses, no being terrified of bosses (unless they're actually being abusive). And while talking smack about bosses among the fellow underlings is sometimes a necessary safety valve, stop doing it in writing!
But this is more about avoiding problems in the future. While you may feel bad now, since you are, in fact, starting a new job, I'm not sure there are many repercussions to worry about now. (She can't make you take her off your resume...she was your supervisor, that's a fact. And her reaching out to you...hoo boy, the unprofessionalism!) Just keep in mind how you feel now the next time you feel tempted to say something unkind about someone, especially in writing. I'm not going to say that you should never say anything about anyone you wouldn't be okay with their hearing. Life isn't like that. Feelings aren't always kind and managing them sometimes means finding a relatively harmless way to share them with someone else. But if you're feeling shame about what you wrote, then it sounds like it was out of line with your own values. Now you know how you feel when you're confronted with evidence of that.
posted by praemunire at 5:15 PM on June 18, 2023
Ugh I'm so sorry about this!! Your former manager is trying to sabotage you: people complain about their bosses all the time. It's par for the course!! A professional and confident boss can take it in stride or at least confront the employee about it at the time, hopefully with grace and a request to become a better boss.
In a way, however awful now, this is a gift: you see what a snake she is, and you can gladly remove her from your contacts. She's trying to cut you down before you start your new job because she's petty, angry you left, and looking for revenge. I am so, so, SO glad you left your old job. It's extra shitty that she did this on the weekend, which also shows a lack of respect for your time.
I wish you the best of luck at your new job; please try to focus on that and not on this horrible person. (Easier said than done!) You are free!!! Also, I don't have LinkedIn so I don't know how it goes but perhaps you can even block her now? We are cheering you on!!
posted by smorgasbord at 7:16 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
In a way, however awful now, this is a gift: you see what a snake she is, and you can gladly remove her from your contacts. She's trying to cut you down before you start your new job because she's petty, angry you left, and looking for revenge. I am so, so, SO glad you left your old job. It's extra shitty that she did this on the weekend, which also shows a lack of respect for your time.
I wish you the best of luck at your new job; please try to focus on that and not on this horrible person. (Easier said than done!) You are free!!! Also, I don't have LinkedIn so I don't know how it goes but perhaps you can even block her now? We are cheering you on!!
posted by smorgasbord at 7:16 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also, I doubt she'll ever come up at your new job. However, if someone asks a question about her or your old job, you can simply reply very vaguely. We don't owe people personal details, especially when they're new colleagues and we don't know whom we can trust yet.
posted by smorgasbord at 7:24 PM on June 18, 2023
posted by smorgasbord at 7:24 PM on June 18, 2023
Response by poster: Thanks all. I still feel awful and couldn't sleep last night but hopefully it will pass.
To clarify, I believe due to the complaint against her by my colleague, HR have accessed my colleagues Skype chats.
I don't know why this was necessary, why they read my conversations with her and why my manager has been informed of the contents
posted by Sunflower88 at 11:23 PM on June 18, 2023
To clarify, I believe due to the complaint against her by my colleague, HR have accessed my colleagues Skype chats.
I don't know why this was necessary, why they read my conversations with her and why my manager has been informed of the contents
posted by Sunflower88 at 11:23 PM on June 18, 2023
I think you're right to wonder why this all came about at all, but perhaps there's a reason why they all still work there, together. After all, HR also has had a front row seat to her imperfect hiring practices and how quickly those people are let go and for what reasons and to what degree ex-boss bad-mouthed them along the way. No doubt they are looking for a reason outside of the plain events of your coworker's employment to evade liability.
posted by rhizome at 12:56 AM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 12:56 AM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
If there is some sort of formal investigation happening, it's entirely possible that your coworker's Skype conversations were reviewed as evidence. It's also quite likely that under whatever policy guides that investigation, your former manager has the right to see any evidence against her to respond to it.
If I were the one running that investigation (which is something I do professionally in a slightly different context), I'd certainly have redacted your name and anything not directly relevant to the conversation. But that might not be enough to protect your identity if e.g. you had used characteristic turns of phrase.
So it seems well within the standard bounds of such an investigation that she would have access to those messages, unfortunately. (That said, contacting you about them would be a direct violation of the confidentiality of the investigation, among all the other reasons it was bad, and if I knew about it, it would weigh against her and she'd get a talking-to and a warning about contacting you again.)
posted by Stacey at 3:55 AM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
If I were the one running that investigation (which is something I do professionally in a slightly different context), I'd certainly have redacted your name and anything not directly relevant to the conversation. But that might not be enough to protect your identity if e.g. you had used characteristic turns of phrase.
So it seems well within the standard bounds of such an investigation that she would have access to those messages, unfortunately. (That said, contacting you about them would be a direct violation of the confidentiality of the investigation, among all the other reasons it was bad, and if I knew about it, it would weigh against her and she'd get a talking-to and a warning about contacting you again.)
posted by Stacey at 3:55 AM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Sadly, if you talk about your boss, they will hear about it a large percentage of the time. Even if HR is involved. Especially then. That may be the main takeaway from this. Many times your complaints are reasonable, but that doesn't mean you are protected.
My own early horror show had me replying to an email that I thought was sent only to me, responding to a complaint about a senior co-worker with, "Ignore him; he's so full of shit," or something super professional like that. Turns out it was blind cc'd to a number of people who immediately flooded my inbox informing me of what I'd just done.
In hindsight, I feel like what I needed to do, and the main lesson from this experience, was not to get into highly pressured work relationships where the other person has all the power and you could fall out of favor any time. The institution I was working for at the time was strangely top heavy and entrenched and almost everyone I dealt with had more power than me and a lot of them had the personaility of your boss. Most people who commented on my intemperate email indicated that they sympathized. I could say that I should have identified the problem earlier and figured out a way to deal with it intelligently and not lose my shit, but I still don't know what that would have looked like. It's hard when you're early in your career. But this boss was placing a lot of pressure on you and you were in a vulnerable position and I completely sympathize with you.
posted by BibiRose at 4:41 AM on June 19, 2023
My own early horror show had me replying to an email that I thought was sent only to me, responding to a complaint about a senior co-worker with, "Ignore him; he's so full of shit," or something super professional like that. Turns out it was blind cc'd to a number of people who immediately flooded my inbox informing me of what I'd just done.
In hindsight, I feel like what I needed to do, and the main lesson from this experience, was not to get into highly pressured work relationships where the other person has all the power and you could fall out of favor any time. The institution I was working for at the time was strangely top heavy and entrenched and almost everyone I dealt with had more power than me and a lot of them had the personaility of your boss. Most people who commented on my intemperate email indicated that they sympathized. I could say that I should have identified the problem earlier and figured out a way to deal with it intelligently and not lose my shit, but I still don't know what that would have looked like. It's hard when you're early in your career. But this boss was placing a lot of pressure on you and you were in a vulnerable position and I completely sympathize with you.
posted by BibiRose at 4:41 AM on June 19, 2023
Ignore it. It's not going to affect you in your new job UNLESS YOU LET IT.
posted by kschang at 7:46 AM on June 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by kschang at 7:46 AM on June 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
You are FREE!!! What she says or does now has no effect on you at your new job. I know you’re relatively new to the working world but we’ve all had shitty, inappropriate bosses. The best thing to do is move you and you did! One day you’ll be able to look back and put it all in perspective. Good luck at your new job!! You’ve got this!
posted by smorgasbord at 8:22 AM on June 19, 2023
posted by smorgasbord at 8:22 AM on June 19, 2023
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It's unfortunate that your former manager saw it, but her reaction seems like kind of a red flag on its own (although it's hard to say how much of a red flag without knowing the content of what she saw).
It's not at all clear to me, though, that you were wrong to side with your mistreated colleague rather than your boss. In the future, be very cautious about throwing your lot in with people (especially bosses) who "love" and "support" you but are openly cruel (your word! cruel!) to other people.
posted by mskyle at 9:36 AM on June 18, 2023 [42 favorites]