keto diet vs the mountain
May 21, 2023 4:27 PM Subscribe
Help me set expectations for my first time "mountain climbing" tomorrow along with modifications to my keto slim-fast diet.
Mount Mitchell in western NC (highest point in the USA east of the Mississippi).
You can drive to the top but the route I'm going take is about a 3000 ft climb over 6 miles, on natural-surface trails, then descending the same 3000 ft over the same 6 miles back. Reading other people's hike logs, it looks like it takes people roughly 3 - 6 hours up, and 2.5 - 5 hours back. I plan to start early, so daylight should be ample. Weather is clear but I will be prepared for deterioration. I have hiked some before, I feel well-equipped w.r.t gear. My pack will be about 20 pounds.
I've never really done this sort of all-day climb-&-descend hike before so I'm just trying to know what to expect and what sort of dietary changes I should make.
I am not un-fit, running 30 - 35 miles a week on flat, paved pathways. I've been doing slim-fast keto and have lost about 20 pounds since January (FWIW I feel like the keto diet just keeps me treading water, while the running is what slims me down), which means I'm basically having a shake or bar for breakfast and lunch, then a normal (large) dinner. Normally I am able to work my physical job and run my 15K in the afternoons after work without feeling dangerously fatigued. Obviously ever body is different but I am wondering how much, if any, I should modify my carb intake for this planned elevation hike tomorrow.
If I'm normally exercising as I detailed, how hard do you experienced MeFites think it might be for me tomorrow?
Barring some accident, I don't foresee myself being completely blindsided by the exertion but I'm not sure, so that's why I'm asking for advice. I am less sure about planning on my normal diet breakfast lunch of just a few hundred non-carb calories each, or how much more carbs I should eat than usual. I have some freeze-dried camping meals I will take that are pretty carb-y but I'd honestly rather not eat that unless I really needed to.
Maybe I'm overthinking this whole thing? Please advise me. 😀
Mount Mitchell in western NC (highest point in the USA east of the Mississippi).
You can drive to the top but the route I'm going take is about a 3000 ft climb over 6 miles, on natural-surface trails, then descending the same 3000 ft over the same 6 miles back. Reading other people's hike logs, it looks like it takes people roughly 3 - 6 hours up, and 2.5 - 5 hours back. I plan to start early, so daylight should be ample. Weather is clear but I will be prepared for deterioration. I have hiked some before, I feel well-equipped w.r.t gear. My pack will be about 20 pounds.
I've never really done this sort of all-day climb-&-descend hike before so I'm just trying to know what to expect and what sort of dietary changes I should make.
I am not un-fit, running 30 - 35 miles a week on flat, paved pathways. I've been doing slim-fast keto and have lost about 20 pounds since January (FWIW I feel like the keto diet just keeps me treading water, while the running is what slims me down), which means I'm basically having a shake or bar for breakfast and lunch, then a normal (large) dinner. Normally I am able to work my physical job and run my 15K in the afternoons after work without feeling dangerously fatigued. Obviously ever body is different but I am wondering how much, if any, I should modify my carb intake for this planned elevation hike tomorrow.
If I'm normally exercising as I detailed, how hard do you experienced MeFites think it might be for me tomorrow?
Barring some accident, I don't foresee myself being completely blindsided by the exertion but I'm not sure, so that's why I'm asking for advice. I am less sure about planning on my normal diet breakfast lunch of just a few hundred non-carb calories each, or how much more carbs I should eat than usual. I have some freeze-dried camping meals I will take that are pretty carb-y but I'd honestly rather not eat that unless I really needed to.
Maybe I'm overthinking this whole thing? Please advise me. 😀
Best answer: I don't know about diet. i do know about taking newcomers on the trail.
i feel like this will be a terrific adventure and likely come off without a hitch.
post back and let us know how it went. cheers! j_
posted by j_curiouser at 5:11 PM on May 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
- take more water than you think.
- your enjoyment and success largely depends on keeping a slow pace all day with lots of breaks. don't get excited.
- footwear, quality, well-fit, and broken in.
- trim your bag weight by 5lb
- take a high energy boost in case of emergency. if haste is required, or injury or hypothermia come on - don't hesitate to down a couple of clif bars (or whatever).
- don't be shy about telling your team to slow down. don't be shy about saying, 'im done, i need someone to go down with me."
- you will feel the hills. watch your wind on the way up and your knees on the way down. i advise everyone to use trekking poles and get some practice before the big day.
- hat/sunscreen. srsly.
i feel like this will be a terrific adventure and likely come off without a hitch.
post back and let us know how it went. cheers! j_
posted by j_curiouser at 5:11 PM on May 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
Best answer: Hmm.. I'm one of those keto off-and-onners, and the last big hike I did whilst keto-ing was, according to Google, about 3700 ft of elevation gain, 12 miles up and 12 miles down. I'm in reasonable (but I wouldn't say "great" or even "good") shape, and the hike, while long and tiring, didn't feel overly strenuous, for me.
Tips I have...
1. BRING LOTS OF WATER. No, more than that... as much as you can comfortably haul. Bring a filter or another way to purify if there is a water source on the route.
2. Trail snacks, homie!. Easy to do if you want to keep keto... cured meats, cheeses, nuts, vegetables, pickles, olives.... a well curated and decent sized keto "snackle box" should easily keep you fueled for an 8-10 hour hike.
(I am also someone who'd be totally fine calling this a cheat day free-for-all too, though... ymmv)
posted by wats at 5:25 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Tips I have...
1. BRING LOTS OF WATER. No, more than that... as much as you can comfortably haul. Bring a filter or another way to purify if there is a water source on the route.
2. Trail snacks, homie!. Easy to do if you want to keep keto... cured meats, cheeses, nuts, vegetables, pickles, olives.... a well curated and decent sized keto "snackle box" should easily keep you fueled for an 8-10 hour hike.
(I am also someone who'd be totally fine calling this a cheat day free-for-all too, though... ymmv)
posted by wats at 5:25 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
I have made that hike (we actually started at 2500 feet and hiked a total of 13 miles to the top). You need carbs tonight and in the morning. You need actual glycogen stores. And then you need to continue to refuel with actual food and lots of water throughout the day or you will not make it.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:28 PM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 5:28 PM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
And one final note note... you do FAR more day to day exercise than I ever have... I think you've got this.
posted by wats at 5:28 PM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by wats at 5:28 PM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
I have some freeze-dried camping meals I will take that are pretty carb-y but I'd honestly rather not eat that unless I really needed to.
Okay I... I think you might be overthinking this a little. You're in better shape than I was when I was doing a similar hike/run on the regular here in Colorado at elevation. Water, yes, lots! Lots of trail snacks, yes! I wasn't doing keto, so I'd have a good breakfast and then bring a sandwich, peanuts, and some chocolate for the trail. My trail was popular, so I felt pretty confident traveling light.
I'm with j_curiouser about the weight of that pack. You'll need water, an emergency kit with moleskin, your food for the day, maybe some extra socks, and a jacket. If you're bringing several camping meals, I'm wondering what else is in there? The lighter the pack, the faster you'll move. Every ounce counts.
posted by mochapickle at 5:38 PM on May 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Okay I... I think you might be overthinking this a little. You're in better shape than I was when I was doing a similar hike/run on the regular here in Colorado at elevation. Water, yes, lots! Lots of trail snacks, yes! I wasn't doing keto, so I'd have a good breakfast and then bring a sandwich, peanuts, and some chocolate for the trail. My trail was popular, so I felt pretty confident traveling light.
I'm with j_curiouser about the weight of that pack. You'll need water, an emergency kit with moleskin, your food for the day, maybe some extra socks, and a jacket. If you're bringing several camping meals, I'm wondering what else is in there? The lighter the pack, the faster you'll move. Every ounce counts.
posted by mochapickle at 5:38 PM on May 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Best answer: 90% of climbing is half mental. 3k feet in 6 miles is 500 ft per mile which is very reasonable and you won't be dealing with the effect of altitude, so really it's about keeping your head in it on the up. You're fit, so take in calories as you go and drink to stay hydrated.
Descending is usually more about keeping your eyes on the trail and not turning an ankle. It's a lot less physical effort, but requires concentration not motivation.
And, as others have said, this is a day hike, take the 10 essentials and cut that pack weight by more than half.
posted by OHenryPacey at 5:41 PM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Descending is usually more about keeping your eyes on the trail and not turning an ankle. It's a lot less physical effort, but requires concentration not motivation.
And, as others have said, this is a day hike, take the 10 essentials and cut that pack weight by more than half.
posted by OHenryPacey at 5:41 PM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
If you've been on a keto diet for some time, with your main meal in the evening, your body has adapted to drawing down fat stores during the day. And a 12-mile round trip isn't that much more in distance than your 15K run. Based on my experience doing endurance bicycle rides (6-13 hours) while on a significant calorie deficit (though not keto), I'd suggest planning to eat 150-200 calories per hour in easily digested carbs (e.g., Gatorade or gels) on the ascent, and having a couple gels or shot blocks or the like as a backup in case you bonk. Bring a couple extra keto bars too. The research I've seen suggests that 200-250 calories per hour is the maximum that most people can digest while exercising (though that's based on running and cycling; less intensive exercise such as hiking might up the amount). Again, though, if you've been doing keto for a while, you'll be better than most people at drawing on fat stores. But a small dose of sugar every hour will help keep the machinery functioning—especially the brain, which prefers to run on sugars.
I don't see any need to bring camping food, especially since that also means the weight of a stove, fuel, and pots. Maybe a peanut butter sandwich, or if that's too much carbs, some peanuts or cashews to eat at the summit.
Enjoy! I've considered doing the Assault on Mount Mitchell for some time, but the timing has never worked out.
Seconding the advice to stay hydrated and to have emergency equipment.
posted by brianogilvie at 6:13 PM on May 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't see any need to bring camping food, especially since that also means the weight of a stove, fuel, and pots. Maybe a peanut butter sandwich, or if that's too much carbs, some peanuts or cashews to eat at the summit.
Enjoy! I've considered doing the Assault on Mount Mitchell for some time, but the timing has never worked out.
Seconding the advice to stay hydrated and to have emergency equipment.
posted by brianogilvie at 6:13 PM on May 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: i was kinda caught up on a larger, framed bag because i was bringing the jet-boil to heat the water to make the freeze-dried meals. by eliminating all those items i could size down to a smaller bag (i don't have a medium bag at this time) so now i'm down to about 12lb of bag with 2L of water in a bladder. i will fix up a decent easy lunch + snacks in the morning. thanks for the head-check and if you see anything else deficient call me out.
posted by glonous keming at 6:21 PM on May 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by glonous keming at 6:21 PM on May 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
I live in a place where this is a saturday day hike. I don't go full keto but am low carb, one of my hiking partners is full keto OMAD.
Given your current exercise level I think you'll be fine on your normal diet. 500 ft/mile will slow you down a little bit but isn't particularly steep. If you are used to doing your runs on keto I see no reason why your body would protest with hiking. However, it's pretty easy to pack some gatorade powder in a little ziplock, throw it in your water if you feel yourself bonking.
I have never cooked on a dayhike, my usual is to bring a bunch of nuts and munch every hour or so. When I'm hiking I don't feel hungry but my pace lags if I underfeed myself.
Do bring the 10 essentials and plenty of water, but I'm glad you realized a framed backpack was overkill. My daypack is about 12 liters.
posted by Narrow Harbor at 7:29 PM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Given your current exercise level I think you'll be fine on your normal diet. 500 ft/mile will slow you down a little bit but isn't particularly steep. If you are used to doing your runs on keto I see no reason why your body would protest with hiking. However, it's pretty easy to pack some gatorade powder in a little ziplock, throw it in your water if you feel yourself bonking.
I have never cooked on a dayhike, my usual is to bring a bunch of nuts and munch every hour or so. When I'm hiking I don't feel hungry but my pace lags if I underfeed myself.
Do bring the 10 essentials and plenty of water, but I'm glad you realized a framed backpack was overkill. My daypack is about 12 liters.
posted by Narrow Harbor at 7:29 PM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
what are those things called, platypus, kangaroo, whatever it is that you wear on your back and there's a tube that hangs right near your face and you bite the end and suck water out of it as you motor along? If it's hot there, fill one of those and freeze it. Camelback. Don't know why I couldn't think of it. Frozen is awesome if it's hot. The ice feels fabulous against your back and the freezing water is delightful to drink. Maybe it's already too late to set that up, though. Well, you don't need ice water. It's a luxury. Just water is all you need.
Definitely agree do not cook on the dang trail, jesus, why. Just bring a bunch of nuts and seeds.
You might get tired on hills, though I don't see why you would given you're running tens of miles a day, but of course it's different from what you're used to, so you might, and if you do, rather than stop slow down and take shorter strides. Just keep trudging.
Even if you're not at all tired, do not race up and down hills. If you twist your ankle on a root going too fast, life will immediately begin to suck more than is necessary.
Don't forget to put sunscreen on your ears. I roasted mine one time and it was unpleasant. If you don't wear a hat and you happen to hit open trail in the middle of the day, the part in your hair will burn and you won't notice 'til next time you take a hot shower whereupon... zowie!
If something goes haywire and you're out after dark, it's nice to have a headlamp, and they don't weigh much, so if you have one, fling it in.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:56 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Definitely agree do not cook on the dang trail, jesus, why. Just bring a bunch of nuts and seeds.
You might get tired on hills, though I don't see why you would given you're running tens of miles a day, but of course it's different from what you're used to, so you might, and if you do, rather than stop slow down and take shorter strides. Just keep trudging.
Even if you're not at all tired, do not race up and down hills. If you twist your ankle on a root going too fast, life will immediately begin to suck more than is necessary.
Don't forget to put sunscreen on your ears. I roasted mine one time and it was unpleasant. If you don't wear a hat and you happen to hit open trail in the middle of the day, the part in your hair will burn and you won't notice 'til next time you take a hot shower whereupon... zowie!
If something goes haywire and you're out after dark, it's nice to have a headlamp, and they don't weigh much, so if you have one, fling it in.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:56 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Insect repellent? If you're not used to hills be sure to take it slow on the way down! Walking downhill uses your muscles differently.
posted by mareli at 8:27 PM on May 21, 2023
posted by mareli at 8:27 PM on May 21, 2023
Best answer: Advice in my mountaineering class was to keep eating keto on trail if that’s what you’re used to. Lots of small snacks is good, heavy meals are a bad idea (that’s for after you get back). We stopped for snacks and water at regular intervals, like every hour-ish or ninety minutes depending on how folks were doing. We did training hikes that were similar difficulty, ten essentials is all you need. It sounds like a reasonably well-traveled area, it’s not like you’re going to fall in a crevasse and be lost for days.
Hiking poles might be a nice addition, being a tetrapod makes inclines / declines easier.
posted by momus_window at 9:13 PM on May 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Hiking poles might be a nice addition, being a tetrapod makes inclines / declines easier.
posted by momus_window at 9:13 PM on May 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
If you're fat-adapted, you will do fine fueling your hike with keto foods. Bring cheese sticks, macadamia nuts, a bag of pepperoni slices, and a lot lot lot of water. Have fun.
posted by Sublimity at 8:43 AM on May 22, 2023
posted by Sublimity at 8:43 AM on May 22, 2023
Best answer: Also noting that the peak is at 6,684 ft; although elevation sickness or altitude affecting performace /can/ begin at 6,000 feet, it only starts affecting more than 1 in 4 people at 8,000 feet and above. So I wouldn't worry about the altitude. This is more hiking up a large hill than "mountain climbing".
I'd also recommend dropping pack weight while still carrying a ton of water. I find that potassium helps on long hikes for leg cramps, maybe pack an emergency avocado? If most of your weight is from the bag, maybe you can bring any other type of bag and pack more water? (I'd recommend at least 3 liters of water, and less food.) I go on hikes of this length with a simple school backpack, and even that's excessive.
posted by Theiform at 12:34 PM on May 22, 2023
I'd also recommend dropping pack weight while still carrying a ton of water. I find that potassium helps on long hikes for leg cramps, maybe pack an emergency avocado? If most of your weight is from the bag, maybe you can bring any other type of bag and pack more water? (I'd recommend at least 3 liters of water, and less food.) I go on hikes of this length with a simple school backpack, and even that's excessive.
posted by Theiform at 12:34 PM on May 22, 2023
Response by poster: tl;dr: i made it!
thanks everyone for your help! i made it up in 4h15m and down in 3h30m. took breaks for heart rest & snack on the hour going up, only needed 1 break going down. my 2L of water ran dry about a mile from the end, but that was fine (i had .5L emergency backup in a bottle but i didn't need to drink it).
for posterity: started the day with my normal minimal keto breakfast of a bar and yogurt, drove 3.5 hours to the trailhead and basically had what would be my normal lunch of a coffee+power shake, tomatoes, and nuts. as i went up i transitioned to more carb-y snacks like gorp mix and store-bought bars. at the peak i ate 2 wraps of keto-friendly tortilla and no-added-sugar peanut butter, and, defying some of your advice (sorry!) i "cooked" a MRE/hiking side of hashbrown potatoes, bacon, and bell peppers (the kind that has its own chemical heating packet in the bag so i didn't carry a stove) and it was nice to have something hot on the slightly chilly & breezy summit. i know i was kind cross-purposes mixing the keto stuff with carb-y starchy snacks and side but i figured in the big picture as long as i was putting in fuel one way or another my metabolism would sort it out. water was interesting as i did technically run out of my main supply. in the future i will use this experience to help calibrate my water packing as honestly i don't anticipate going on a day hike longer than this but will take the hotness into effect and maybe considering adding a small personal straw-type filter for added hydration opportunities.)
w.r.t. the hike itself, i didn't think it would be easy but honestly this felt a lot harder than i anticipated. it was a lot of hauling oneself up 12-18" risers of rocks and roots, and not a lot of walking along a inclined forest floor slope. ankle-breakers everywhere. i was very careful so my foot placing was slow and deliberate whenever it was something i could stumble on. in the places where it was just walking i tried to push hard and it felt like such a luxury to be able to take continuous strides vs picking across the landscape like a Martian rover. it was only about 70°F at the bottom but i was completely drenched with sweat by the first half-mile. the pace when i would pass the half-milemarkers compared to flatland jogging was kinda disheartening ("holy shit, that was half a mile" 😫). at the summit i heard finish line jubilation of the bike race mentioned by brianogilvie above, that was a neat coincidence.
thanks again, everyone. 😄 ☮&❤
posted by glonous keming at 12:49 PM on May 23, 2023 [7 favorites]
thanks everyone for your help! i made it up in 4h15m and down in 3h30m. took breaks for heart rest & snack on the hour going up, only needed 1 break going down. my 2L of water ran dry about a mile from the end, but that was fine (i had .5L emergency backup in a bottle but i didn't need to drink it).
for posterity: started the day with my normal minimal keto breakfast of a bar and yogurt, drove 3.5 hours to the trailhead and basically had what would be my normal lunch of a coffee+power shake, tomatoes, and nuts. as i went up i transitioned to more carb-y snacks like gorp mix and store-bought bars. at the peak i ate 2 wraps of keto-friendly tortilla and no-added-sugar peanut butter, and, defying some of your advice (sorry!) i "cooked" a MRE/hiking side of hashbrown potatoes, bacon, and bell peppers (the kind that has its own chemical heating packet in the bag so i didn't carry a stove) and it was nice to have something hot on the slightly chilly & breezy summit. i know i was kind cross-purposes mixing the keto stuff with carb-y starchy snacks and side but i figured in the big picture as long as i was putting in fuel one way or another my metabolism would sort it out. water was interesting as i did technically run out of my main supply. in the future i will use this experience to help calibrate my water packing as honestly i don't anticipate going on a day hike longer than this but will take the hotness into effect and maybe considering adding a small personal straw-type filter for added hydration opportunities.)
w.r.t. the hike itself, i didn't think it would be easy but honestly this felt a lot harder than i anticipated. it was a lot of hauling oneself up 12-18" risers of rocks and roots, and not a lot of walking along a inclined forest floor slope. ankle-breakers everywhere. i was very careful so my foot placing was slow and deliberate whenever it was something i could stumble on. in the places where it was just walking i tried to push hard and it felt like such a luxury to be able to take continuous strides vs picking across the landscape like a Martian rover. it was only about 70°F at the bottom but i was completely drenched with sweat by the first half-mile. the pace when i would pass the half-milemarkers compared to flatland jogging was kinda disheartening ("holy shit, that was half a mile" 😫). at the summit i heard finish line jubilation of the bike race mentioned by brianogilvie above, that was a neat coincidence.
thanks again, everyone. 😄 ☮&❤
posted by glonous keming at 12:49 PM on May 23, 2023 [7 favorites]
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posted by LizardBreath at 5:11 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]