Help Me Get My Nightmare Job!
February 12, 2023 8:36 PM Subscribe
After a long string of jobs that I've sucked at, I hate the idea of every single job that I'm qualified for. However, I don't have a job right now. How do I fake enthusiasm long enough to get to be able to warm a seat and draw a salary?
I have hated every single job I have had for the past 15 years. I work support jobs that are very detail-oriented and that I'm not very good at and that I've come to loathe. None of these jobs have worked out for me--first one I was almost fired because I kept foolishly asking to switch career tracks to something that I wanted to do more, after that got a pay cut, after that no promotion for years and a wage that didn't meet a brutally high cost of living. I fully admit that I never deserved to advance and it was stupid to try, but figuring that out cost a lot of time and frustration and did a number on my ego.
The last job I had was OK, because it paid well and I could stay home. Unfortunately, due to job cuts I no longer have said job andit looks like I have to go back into the office for whichever new job I manage to land. I have no problem with in-office work in general, it's just that this particular kind of office work involves sitting in a room without windows or Internet and diligently staring at your computer screen for 40 hours a week. It's also government work, which means I can't use it for a portfolio and the skills I use are basically 20 years behind anything in the private sector, so I can't ever go anywhere else, even if I wanted to. At this point, I have about as much desire to continue in my career path as Rock Hudson did to kiss Doris Day in real life. I really, really hate these jobs! Can you tell?
I don't need to do any sort of deep shadow work to know what kind of job I want. Whenever I hear about someone with a post-secondary teaching job, I get a little sad inside, or someone who does educational development. Or analysis. Or user design. Or law. Or medicine. They get to help people! And go to conferences and give presentations! And they don't have vivid fantasies about stabbing whoever tells them "actually, you added an extra space after that period"! Because somebody else who actually cares and is good at using that part of their brain does that part of the job!
I also know that I'm way too stupid and old to ever score one of these non-support jobs, although having to tell myself how stupid and old I am all the time is pretty miserable. But there are plenty of younger, smarter people who don't work with shitty government tech or have actual degrees or a better work ethic or shinier teeth or whatever. And I'm middle-aged and a woman and not the type of woman that anyone is going to encourage to do anything else than be a glorified version of Grammarly. (Yes, I have been told I am "like Grammarly" multiple times. Also that I'm stupid because I don't have a terminal degree, and that I'm not worth the salary that would allow me to be near my family, and all sorts of other wonderful things. I have not ever gotten a promotion or a bonus. I hate these jobs!)
Anyway, I guess the question is: How do I fake enthusiasm long enough to get one more of these fucking jobs? What I want to say is "no, I would rather strip in public and reenact Tetsuo: Iron Man than do this one more fucking time," but my bank account, my rent, my resume, and my insurance status say otherwise. I know I should be grateful that I have employment prospects in the first place, because so many people are having so much more trouble with so many more layoffs. But my psyche (and my liver) are taking a beating anyway.
P.S. Please don't tell me to get a hobby. I have done and currently do fulfilling things for myself and for the community, many of which I'm going to have to give up because absolutely meaningless 9-to-5 40-hour work-week in the office again.
I have hated every single job I have had for the past 15 years. I work support jobs that are very detail-oriented and that I'm not very good at and that I've come to loathe. None of these jobs have worked out for me--first one I was almost fired because I kept foolishly asking to switch career tracks to something that I wanted to do more, after that got a pay cut, after that no promotion for years and a wage that didn't meet a brutally high cost of living. I fully admit that I never deserved to advance and it was stupid to try, but figuring that out cost a lot of time and frustration and did a number on my ego.
The last job I had was OK, because it paid well and I could stay home. Unfortunately, due to job cuts I no longer have said job andit looks like I have to go back into the office for whichever new job I manage to land. I have no problem with in-office work in general, it's just that this particular kind of office work involves sitting in a room without windows or Internet and diligently staring at your computer screen for 40 hours a week. It's also government work, which means I can't use it for a portfolio and the skills I use are basically 20 years behind anything in the private sector, so I can't ever go anywhere else, even if I wanted to. At this point, I have about as much desire to continue in my career path as Rock Hudson did to kiss Doris Day in real life. I really, really hate these jobs! Can you tell?
I don't need to do any sort of deep shadow work to know what kind of job I want. Whenever I hear about someone with a post-secondary teaching job, I get a little sad inside, or someone who does educational development. Or analysis. Or user design. Or law. Or medicine. They get to help people! And go to conferences and give presentations! And they don't have vivid fantasies about stabbing whoever tells them "actually, you added an extra space after that period"! Because somebody else who actually cares and is good at using that part of their brain does that part of the job!
I also know that I'm way too stupid and old to ever score one of these non-support jobs, although having to tell myself how stupid and old I am all the time is pretty miserable. But there are plenty of younger, smarter people who don't work with shitty government tech or have actual degrees or a better work ethic or shinier teeth or whatever. And I'm middle-aged and a woman and not the type of woman that anyone is going to encourage to do anything else than be a glorified version of Grammarly. (Yes, I have been told I am "like Grammarly" multiple times. Also that I'm stupid because I don't have a terminal degree, and that I'm not worth the salary that would allow me to be near my family, and all sorts of other wonderful things. I have not ever gotten a promotion or a bonus. I hate these jobs!)
Anyway, I guess the question is: How do I fake enthusiasm long enough to get one more of these fucking jobs? What I want to say is "no, I would rather strip in public and reenact Tetsuo: Iron Man than do this one more fucking time," but my bank account, my rent, my resume, and my insurance status say otherwise. I know I should be grateful that I have employment prospects in the first place, because so many people are having so much more trouble with so many more layoffs. But my psyche (and my liver) are taking a beating anyway.
P.S. Please don't tell me to get a hobby. I have done and currently do fulfilling things for myself and for the community, many of which I'm going to have to give up because absolutely meaningless 9-to-5 40-hour work-week in the office again.
I have done and currently do fulfilling things for myself and for the community
What are they? Give your MeFi friends a chance to think creatively with you. You know your life better than anyone, so you're probably right in essence, but-- just in case there's something out there for you that's better, why not open the door just a crack to see if something cool sticks its nose in?
posted by amtho at 9:00 PM on February 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
What are they? Give your MeFi friends a chance to think creatively with you. You know your life better than anyone, so you're probably right in essence, but-- just in case there's something out there for you that's better, why not open the door just a crack to see if something cool sticks its nose in?
posted by amtho at 9:00 PM on February 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
How do I fake enthusiasm long enough to get one more of these fucking jobs?
In the interview, make believe that you are trying to help a friend who owns a business try to figure out the best way to do things in their business.
I keep having business owners try to recruit me to work for them because of social conversations in which they mentioned some issues they were facing in their business and I was like "Oh have you tried this? What about this? There's a great program that would help with that, it's called X, have you tried it? Oh there's a Microsoft Outlook plug-in for that too so it will file your emails." etc.
I'm not even interviewing but they try to hire me. Like I can't even sit at a bar and have a beer if the owner/manager is the one working the bar or I will walk out of that conversation with a job offer lol. I'm not particularly brilliant or charming, I just really enjoy figuring out the optimal way to do things and if someone asks me for even a little bit of feedback then my Inner Management Consultant seizes control.
And then when I do go to interviews for jobs I'm actually trying to get, I'm pretty good about taking control of those interviews and turning them into that sort of conversation. Then whoever interviews me wants to hire me because instead of spending the whole time taking about my skills and experience, I spent it coming up with proposed solutions to like six of their problems.
They get to help people!
Every job contains at least some opportunity to help people. Sometimes it's just helping make work suck less for your coworkers and boss but those are still technically people. Unless you work for secret space aliens or demons. With some bosses it's hard to tell.
You don't have to be enthused about the industry or the job or the work itself, you just have to be enthused about figuring out solutions to puzzles, because every company, position, task etc. is like a little puzzle to be solved. And then you award yourself points when you solve them.
posted by Jacqueline at 9:03 PM on February 12, 2023 [8 favorites]
In the interview, make believe that you are trying to help a friend who owns a business try to figure out the best way to do things in their business.
I keep having business owners try to recruit me to work for them because of social conversations in which they mentioned some issues they were facing in their business and I was like "Oh have you tried this? What about this? There's a great program that would help with that, it's called X, have you tried it? Oh there's a Microsoft Outlook plug-in for that too so it will file your emails." etc.
I'm not even interviewing but they try to hire me. Like I can't even sit at a bar and have a beer if the owner/manager is the one working the bar or I will walk out of that conversation with a job offer lol. I'm not particularly brilliant or charming, I just really enjoy figuring out the optimal way to do things and if someone asks me for even a little bit of feedback then my Inner Management Consultant seizes control.
And then when I do go to interviews for jobs I'm actually trying to get, I'm pretty good about taking control of those interviews and turning them into that sort of conversation. Then whoever interviews me wants to hire me because instead of spending the whole time taking about my skills and experience, I spent it coming up with proposed solutions to like six of their problems.
They get to help people!
Every job contains at least some opportunity to help people. Sometimes it's just helping make work suck less for your coworkers and boss but those are still technically people. Unless you work for secret space aliens or demons. With some bosses it's hard to tell.
You don't have to be enthused about the industry or the job or the work itself, you just have to be enthused about figuring out solutions to puzzles, because every company, position, task etc. is like a little puzzle to be solved. And then you award yourself points when you solve them.
posted by Jacqueline at 9:03 PM on February 12, 2023 [8 favorites]
This has many issues, but almost anyone with a college degree can go to law school, and almost everyone with decent SATs can pass the Bar. If being a lawyer can give you meaning, and you don’t expect it to make you rich, it’s a thing you can be four years from now.
posted by MattD at 9:26 PM on February 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by MattD at 9:26 PM on February 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
Maybe don't think of it as enthusiasm for the job, but enthusiasm for bringing in some money.
But I do agree with amtho. I encourage you to ask another question asking for help figuring out jobs you might like better. I and many other people have taken circuitous routes through our working life, often getting somewhere better.
Good luck.
posted by NotLost at 10:07 PM on February 12, 2023
But I do agree with amtho. I encourage you to ask another question asking for help figuring out jobs you might like better. I and many other people have taken circuitous routes through our working life, often getting somewhere better.
Good luck.
posted by NotLost at 10:07 PM on February 12, 2023
Assuming you don't retool your entire career path--which doesn't seem as hopeless to me as it does to you, but anyway--do you know that, post-pandemic, many federal jobs now allow at least some work from home? Get thee to usajobs.gov. (But, before you apply for any jobs there, check out whatever the federal jobs reddit is called, for tips on the idiosyncratic resume style expected by federal HR bots.) With a federal GS-scale job, you'll get a merit raise on a regular schedule as you increase in experience, and usually (but not always, but at least it won't be just you missing out) some sort of cost-of-living increase each year, too.
posted by praemunire at 10:46 PM on February 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 10:46 PM on February 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
I hear a lot of resentment and shame here, and a sense of loss when you talk wistfully of stuff you wish you could get hired to do. When I am this deep in my feelings over something, the best thing I can do is refocus on something practical. Someone I enjoyed on Twitter, right after Trump was elected, posted something I come back to mentally sometimes when I am spiraling — “Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water; after enlightenment, chop wood and carry water.”
It’s normal to have the don’t-wannas about work sometimes — every job has things you don’t want to do, people you don’t like working with — but I think this degree of upset is well out of what I’d call normal. I’m not trying to shame you further for that feeling, I’m saying I think you ought to listen to what it’s telling you. There may be other places you could go, careerwise, with the resume you have now, besides back into the general office work that’s filling you with rage. Or there may be steps you could take toward that better future down the line, whether it’s a new certificate you work toward part time or an accelerated retirement schedule, that would help make it feel bearable. It’s hard to give advice about what that might be without knowing a lot of practical details about your education and your finances that aren’t in this picture.
posted by eirias at 3:37 AM on February 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
It’s normal to have the don’t-wannas about work sometimes — every job has things you don’t want to do, people you don’t like working with — but I think this degree of upset is well out of what I’d call normal. I’m not trying to shame you further for that feeling, I’m saying I think you ought to listen to what it’s telling you. There may be other places you could go, careerwise, with the resume you have now, besides back into the general office work that’s filling you with rage. Or there may be steps you could take toward that better future down the line, whether it’s a new certificate you work toward part time or an accelerated retirement schedule, that would help make it feel bearable. It’s hard to give advice about what that might be without knowing a lot of practical details about your education and your finances that aren’t in this picture.
posted by eirias at 3:37 AM on February 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
[I]t looks like I have to go back into the office for whichever new job I manage to land.
I think you should look at that piece first. Not having to go to the office saves you a lot of time and money which would offset either a pay cut or a reduction in hours, if you could do part-time and still have benefits. Find a job where you can work from home at least some days. I know that's hard. I know sometimes they talk about work from home and sometimes it doesn't materialize. But it sounds like it's important to you, so make that a priority, even if they pay less.
It hurts my heart to hear you calling yourself stupid over this. And please don't destroy your liver. Everyone talks about work driving them to drink but if it's literally happening, it's almost certainly contributing to feelings of depression and hopelessness. If you are drinking or using on the daily, you might even want to check out a recovery meeting; they have them online.
Above all, it's in the nature of these jobs to make you feel less-than and like you don't deserve anything so they can take advantage of you. Don't let them do that number on you. It's more appropriate to feel some healthy anger towards the job than to beat yourself up.
posted by BibiRose at 5:10 AM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think you should look at that piece first. Not having to go to the office saves you a lot of time and money which would offset either a pay cut or a reduction in hours, if you could do part-time and still have benefits. Find a job where you can work from home at least some days. I know that's hard. I know sometimes they talk about work from home and sometimes it doesn't materialize. But it sounds like it's important to you, so make that a priority, even if they pay less.
It hurts my heart to hear you calling yourself stupid over this. And please don't destroy your liver. Everyone talks about work driving them to drink but if it's literally happening, it's almost certainly contributing to feelings of depression and hopelessness. If you are drinking or using on the daily, you might even want to check out a recovery meeting; they have them online.
Above all, it's in the nature of these jobs to make you feel less-than and like you don't deserve anything so they can take advantage of you. Don't let them do that number on you. It's more appropriate to feel some healthy anger towards the job than to beat yourself up.
posted by BibiRose at 5:10 AM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Threadsitting to say that there are definitely federal jobs out there that look interesting, pay well, and fit my skill set well, and I've applied to lots of them for years and never heard back from any of them. I assume that it's because my background is in military work; I don't have the connections or the right previous steps on my resume.
All the jobs I am qualified for involve editing military documentation (dull to actively disturbing, depending on the document) or working for the DHS, which I've never worked myself but which other people in an old office contracted for: I had the joy of watching extremely liberal people earnestly argue for inclusive word usage for content that by necessity had to include topics like detention centers and different ways to physically, uh, deter asylum seekers. I guess we live under capitalism and all that but really, I don't think that somebody who lives in a privately run prison where they get a baloney sandwich a day cares whether it's Latino or Latinx. However, again, I can't say that and keep drawing a salary, so!
Anyway, it's picky picky of me but I'm tired of being scolded for not getting the tabs exactly right on a document about those land mines Princess Diana campaigned to ban because they blew off little children's legs. They're not exactly precise, so why do I have to be?
posted by kingdead at 5:24 AM on February 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
All the jobs I am qualified for involve editing military documentation (dull to actively disturbing, depending on the document) or working for the DHS, which I've never worked myself but which other people in an old office contracted for: I had the joy of watching extremely liberal people earnestly argue for inclusive word usage for content that by necessity had to include topics like detention centers and different ways to physically, uh, deter asylum seekers. I guess we live under capitalism and all that but really, I don't think that somebody who lives in a privately run prison where they get a baloney sandwich a day cares whether it's Latino or Latinx. However, again, I can't say that and keep drawing a salary, so!
Anyway, it's picky picky of me but I'm tired of being scolded for not getting the tabs exactly right on a document about those land mines Princess Diana campaigned to ban because they blew off little children's legs. They're not exactly precise, so why do I have to be?
posted by kingdead at 5:24 AM on February 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
I just wrote the below to you in memail, but WTF, why can't we be honest, here? Here goes nothin'! My subject header was:
I'm grammarly, too!
and then the rest of the message went like this:
I have nothing sensible to contribute to that question you asked because I am in a similar situation and anything honest I would say in there would spawn the exact sort of responses you get, "Oh buck up, you're smart and awesome, get out there and gitcher dream job!" Ha haaaaa, like sexism and ageism do not eeeven exist, tralaaa!
I just a month ago tried for a promotion, having worked the same job for... 21 years? Something like that. And guy they hired in 2018--I was on the hiring committee and trained him--they hired him instead of me. Perfectly sweet person and now I get to stare at his perfectly sweet face from his nice office across the building making a few thousand more than me when I have worked for them since 2001.
On the bright side, poorly paid and humiliating as it is, my job does give me access to the internet, I have a window, I work from home a couple of days a week, and the stuff I read all day long and improve is worth reading and improving. You can get my kind of job. If you're grammarly and can also write sentences that don't suck--and you can, you write harrowing sentences--then you can do my job. You can be an editor at a big research school.
posted by Don Pepino at 5:56 AM on February 13, 2023 [11 favorites]
I'm grammarly, too!
and then the rest of the message went like this:
I have nothing sensible to contribute to that question you asked because I am in a similar situation and anything honest I would say in there would spawn the exact sort of responses you get, "Oh buck up, you're smart and awesome, get out there and gitcher dream job!" Ha haaaaa, like sexism and ageism do not eeeven exist, tralaaa!
I just a month ago tried for a promotion, having worked the same job for... 21 years? Something like that. And guy they hired in 2018--I was on the hiring committee and trained him--they hired him instead of me. Perfectly sweet person and now I get to stare at his perfectly sweet face from his nice office across the building making a few thousand more than me when I have worked for them since 2001.
On the bright side, poorly paid and humiliating as it is, my job does give me access to the internet, I have a window, I work from home a couple of days a week, and the stuff I read all day long and improve is worth reading and improving. You can get my kind of job. If you're grammarly and can also write sentences that don't suck--and you can, you write harrowing sentences--then you can do my job. You can be an editor at a big research school.
posted by Don Pepino at 5:56 AM on February 13, 2023 [11 favorites]
Anyway, I guess the question is: How do I fake enthusiasm long enough to get one more of these fucking jobs?
If you mean faking enthusiasm during an interview, maybe you could skip the perkiness and just exude competence or professionalism instead.
the skills I use are basically 20 years behind anything in the private sector, so I can't ever go anywhere else, even if I wanted to
I don't know what work you do exactly, but the things you describe (writing, editing, formatting) are mostly timeless skills. Sure, you might want to catch up on whatever latest software people are using these days, but in most fields that aren't very technical that's a week or two's worth of reading up a bit, watching some youtube tutorials, and playing around with the software, you know? I'm not saying you have to do it, but it's not an option that's closed off to you. Even if you can't describe using some software in your professional life, you can still list it in your resume, and if asked - which you probably wouldn't be - you can describe something small you've done with the software on your own time. But for the most part, I'm not sure that someone hiring an editor or writer would care what particular software you've used for anything. You can really edit the "20 years behind" thing out of your narrative.
Whenever I hear about someone with a post-secondary teaching job, I get a little sad inside, or someone who does educational development. Or analysis. Or user design. Or law. Or medicine.
Some of those fields take a ton of money and time to get the necessary credentials, but others are less out of reach. There are also intermediate fields that could help you get there. For example, moving into technical writing might help transition your CV in a direction that you can take towards user design or writing educational materials - and/or earn enough more that you can complete a program in one of those fields.
Anyway I hope you're applying to less depressing jobs alongside the depressing ones - not just federal ones or ones that are ideal, but private sectors jobs that could help you get where you want to get to, if not immediately then eventually. Or at least ones that give you less depressing material to work on.
posted by trig at 6:01 AM on February 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
If you mean faking enthusiasm during an interview, maybe you could skip the perkiness and just exude competence or professionalism instead.
the skills I use are basically 20 years behind anything in the private sector, so I can't ever go anywhere else, even if I wanted to
I don't know what work you do exactly, but the things you describe (writing, editing, formatting) are mostly timeless skills. Sure, you might want to catch up on whatever latest software people are using these days, but in most fields that aren't very technical that's a week or two's worth of reading up a bit, watching some youtube tutorials, and playing around with the software, you know? I'm not saying you have to do it, but it's not an option that's closed off to you. Even if you can't describe using some software in your professional life, you can still list it in your resume, and if asked - which you probably wouldn't be - you can describe something small you've done with the software on your own time. But for the most part, I'm not sure that someone hiring an editor or writer would care what particular software you've used for anything. You can really edit the "20 years behind" thing out of your narrative.
Whenever I hear about someone with a post-secondary teaching job, I get a little sad inside, or someone who does educational development. Or analysis. Or user design. Or law. Or medicine.
Some of those fields take a ton of money and time to get the necessary credentials, but others are less out of reach. There are also intermediate fields that could help you get there. For example, moving into technical writing might help transition your CV in a direction that you can take towards user design or writing educational materials - and/or earn enough more that you can complete a program in one of those fields.
Anyway I hope you're applying to less depressing jobs alongside the depressing ones - not just federal ones or ones that are ideal, but private sectors jobs that could help you get where you want to get to, if not immediately then eventually. Or at least ones that give you less depressing material to work on.
posted by trig at 6:01 AM on February 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Just one practical suggestion from someone else who thinks all job listings sound like torture -- the cover letter is usually the most painful for me since it's the part where you have to pretend you Really Want the Job and Your Life Has Been Leading Up to Replying to This Posting. I usually only write "one" cover letter. If there are details in the first cover letter that don't fit the next job posting, I swap in a new line or two to fix the bits that don't match, then save the new variant in a reference file alongside the first one. With minimal pain, this will eventually produce about ten variants that cover most of the types of jobs you're looking at, and then you're done Faking Enthusiasm for the 'sending out applications' part and can be more mechanical about just picking one and pasting it in with the other resume info.
posted by space snail at 6:28 AM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by space snail at 6:28 AM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
So…unfortunately, the contempt and despair and self-hatred that come through in your question generally come through loud & clear in an interview, too. These are hard feelings to mask (as you know).
You have two options if you want to present yourself differently: (1) work on genuinely feeling different, or (2) approach it like an actor. You’ve said you don’t want to hear about (1), so I’m going to put that aside and talk about (2).
If you’re approaching this as an actor taking on a role, first define the character. Who exactly are you trying to portray? Being more specific is better. “I’m an experienced professional who loves helping people improve their writing,” is more specific than “enthusiastic”. This character will have all the same career experiences as you (you’re not trying to falsify your experience), but will have seen those experiences through a different point of view.
Once you’ve got your role defined, think about adjustments you can make from “inside out” (aka getting into a headspace that changes your external behavior) and “outside in” (changing your physical circumstances, which changes your headspace). Different actors use different combinations of these techniques; you’ll have to try it to see what works for you.
- Outside in tactics: put on an outfit that makes you feel really confident, jump up and down to get your blood pumping, change your posture, do vocal warmups and practice making your voice sound confident (slower, lower, warmer), figure out where to put your hands, etc.
- Inside out tactics: imagine yourself talking to someone who respects and likes you, write out a backstory of your career as your imaginary character (interpreting events through their lens of enthusiasm), use visualization or imagination to get into a mindset of joy and curiosity, etc.
Once you’ve got some tactics that get you into character, try them out. Walk around your house in character. Answer the phone in character. Write a cover letter in character. Have a friend do a mock interview with you in character. Practice until it feels natural. From there, you should be able to inhabit this character for interviews.
You may find that approaching this as an actor gives you access to a different, more positive perspective — or not. I don’t think Rock Hudson ever wanted to kiss Doris Day, but he managed to do it as part of his job. I wish you luck in figuring this out.
posted by ourobouros at 6:40 AM on February 13, 2023 [12 favorites]
You have two options if you want to present yourself differently: (1) work on genuinely feeling different, or (2) approach it like an actor. You’ve said you don’t want to hear about (1), so I’m going to put that aside and talk about (2).
If you’re approaching this as an actor taking on a role, first define the character. Who exactly are you trying to portray? Being more specific is better. “I’m an experienced professional who loves helping people improve their writing,” is more specific than “enthusiastic”. This character will have all the same career experiences as you (you’re not trying to falsify your experience), but will have seen those experiences through a different point of view.
Once you’ve got your role defined, think about adjustments you can make from “inside out” (aka getting into a headspace that changes your external behavior) and “outside in” (changing your physical circumstances, which changes your headspace). Different actors use different combinations of these techniques; you’ll have to try it to see what works for you.
- Outside in tactics: put on an outfit that makes you feel really confident, jump up and down to get your blood pumping, change your posture, do vocal warmups and practice making your voice sound confident (slower, lower, warmer), figure out where to put your hands, etc.
- Inside out tactics: imagine yourself talking to someone who respects and likes you, write out a backstory of your career as your imaginary character (interpreting events through their lens of enthusiasm), use visualization or imagination to get into a mindset of joy and curiosity, etc.
Once you’ve got some tactics that get you into character, try them out. Walk around your house in character. Answer the phone in character. Write a cover letter in character. Have a friend do a mock interview with you in character. Practice until it feels natural. From there, you should be able to inhabit this character for interviews.
You may find that approaching this as an actor gives you access to a different, more positive perspective — or not. I don’t think Rock Hudson ever wanted to kiss Doris Day, but he managed to do it as part of his job. I wish you luck in figuring this out.
posted by ourobouros at 6:40 AM on February 13, 2023 [12 favorites]
If it is a nightmare job you want, and you are interested in the legal field, check job postings for paralegals in your area. Where I live, there is a shortage which helps getting hired without direct experience.
Paralegal/legal assistant jobs (like attorney jobs) vary widely in need for attention to detail, and how much is support v. independent work, and pay, and whether anyone is being helped.
posted by mersen at 6:47 AM on February 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Paralegal/legal assistant jobs (like attorney jobs) vary widely in need for attention to detail, and how much is support v. independent work, and pay, and whether anyone is being helped.
posted by mersen at 6:47 AM on February 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Just jumping in as an older, overweight, not super attractive woman to let you know, I completely dumped my office low paying "paper pusher" career at age 40 to switch careers Into tech. I went to a very good bootcamp and got job at a well known company (after applying to over 120 jobs). I make easily 4x the highest annual income I ever have before (even when I worked multiple jobs). After a couple years I did some more college. After the college, I was promoted to Senior. Next month I am sitting on a Q&A panel for the college about switching careers later in life. I've bought 2 houses since switching careers.
If you had told me half of these things before all this happened, before I made the terrifying leap to let go of the miserable but steady job to chase a dream, I would 100% have not believed you. I'd have laughed in your face and said I'm too old to make that change. I have said Tech doesn't like women, especially older, fatter ones. I'd have given you a million reasons why I couldnt do that. And yet in one moment of frustration at work, I rage applied to the bootcamp. When I was accepted and had to decide whether or not to do it, it was like standing at the edge grand canyon being asked to jump, but I did it. I did it and I have no regrets.
posted by CleverClover at 7:18 AM on February 13, 2023 [19 favorites]
If you had told me half of these things before all this happened, before I made the terrifying leap to let go of the miserable but steady job to chase a dream, I would 100% have not believed you. I'd have laughed in your face and said I'm too old to make that change. I have said Tech doesn't like women, especially older, fatter ones. I'd have given you a million reasons why I couldnt do that. And yet in one moment of frustration at work, I rage applied to the bootcamp. When I was accepted and had to decide whether or not to do it, it was like standing at the edge grand canyon being asked to jump, but I did it. I did it and I have no regrets.
posted by CleverClover at 7:18 AM on February 13, 2023 [19 favorites]
Hi I am a middle aged lady in law school, and I have to say, it’s not as hard to switch careers as you might think! Also you get a head start because people are really excited about experience.
That said - you’re good at military documentation - have you considered working at VA? They’re pretty desperate for people, and are more tolerant of curmudgeon attitude because veterans don’t care.
posted by corb at 7:26 AM on February 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
That said - you’re good at military documentation - have you considered working at VA? They’re pretty desperate for people, and are more tolerant of curmudgeon attitude because veterans don’t care.
posted by corb at 7:26 AM on February 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
I feel like I didn't answer your question in my first response, so I want to do that as well.
Make a goal of what you want to do, where you want to be, and re-frame this job in your mind as a stepping stone to that goal. Even if it's just money and stability while you choose a goal, that can be a first step. Tell yourself it's a temporary stop on the path to your dream. And one you know how to do, you have experience with, so you don't need to learn new skills right now. This means you'll have the mental bandwidth to take a class or do some learning on the whatever it is you want to do.
Tell yourself all the ways this boring job can help you reach a goal and hopefully you can build some excitement.
Sort of like getting my wisdom teeth pulled before getting my teeth straightened. I hated my crooked teeth, I was always self conscious about my smile. When I had money I decided to get them straighten but I had to have my wisdom teeth pulled to make room. Of course I don't love dental surgery but having them out was a step to getting the straight teeth I've always wanted. With that mindset I looked forward to getting it done.
So maybe think of the new job as pulling teeth (lol), to make room for the good things you really want.
posted by CleverClover at 9:02 AM on February 13, 2023
Make a goal of what you want to do, where you want to be, and re-frame this job in your mind as a stepping stone to that goal. Even if it's just money and stability while you choose a goal, that can be a first step. Tell yourself it's a temporary stop on the path to your dream. And one you know how to do, you have experience with, so you don't need to learn new skills right now. This means you'll have the mental bandwidth to take a class or do some learning on the whatever it is you want to do.
Tell yourself all the ways this boring job can help you reach a goal and hopefully you can build some excitement.
Sort of like getting my wisdom teeth pulled before getting my teeth straightened. I hated my crooked teeth, I was always self conscious about my smile. When I had money I decided to get them straighten but I had to have my wisdom teeth pulled to make room. Of course I don't love dental surgery but having them out was a step to getting the straight teeth I've always wanted. With that mindset I looked forward to getting it done.
So maybe think of the new job as pulling teeth (lol), to make room for the good things you really want.
posted by CleverClover at 9:02 AM on February 13, 2023
Threadsitting to say that there are definitely federal jobs out there that look interesting, pay well, and fit my skill set well, and I've applied to lots of them for years and never heard back from any of them. I assume that it's because my background is in military work; I don't have the connections or the right previous steps on my resume.
The feds are not generally anti-military in their hiring, and connections are less of an issue with them than almost any other professional job (though, of course, not irrelevant). It is not uncommon to have to apply a few hundred times to land a competitive-service job because of the unusually structured hiring process, but if you see jobs you'd like listed, I would really encourage you to keep playing the numbers game. Once you have your resume set up to make sure it exactly matches the HR keywords (that's the real trick, I hear; the HR automated filters are downright moronic), it costs you almost nothing. I mean, you're editing. You're not doing tech work. It's a portable skill, not highly constrained by subject matter. And the feds hire more entry-level people with the intent of promoting than almost any corporation I know, so if you can stomach going in at like GS7 for a while to learn some basics, but on a 7-9-11 promotion ladder, then you can do some lateral expansion of your skills with the assurance that putting in the time will lead to increase in pay.
I don't need to do any sort of deep shadow work to know what kind of job I want. Whenever I hear about someone with a post-secondary teaching job, I get a little sad inside, or someone who does educational development. Or analysis. Or user design. Or law. Or medicine. They get to help people! And go to conferences and give presentations!
If you do decide to retool, let me gently say that it doesn't sound like you actually do know what kind of job you want. You've listed like eight different careers here with wildly varying characteristics and which often don't even fit the desirable qualities you mention. (I'm a lawyer. I help people now, but rarely directly. And in the past, I have helped large corporations, ultrawealthy hedge funds, and vultures.) Before you jump, get a book or two to do a little more focused introspection about what you really want, and maybe come back here for a reality check about whether xyz is likely to allow you to do pqr.
posted by praemunire at 9:34 AM on February 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
The feds are not generally anti-military in their hiring, and connections are less of an issue with them than almost any other professional job (though, of course, not irrelevant). It is not uncommon to have to apply a few hundred times to land a competitive-service job because of the unusually structured hiring process, but if you see jobs you'd like listed, I would really encourage you to keep playing the numbers game. Once you have your resume set up to make sure it exactly matches the HR keywords (that's the real trick, I hear; the HR automated filters are downright moronic), it costs you almost nothing. I mean, you're editing. You're not doing tech work. It's a portable skill, not highly constrained by subject matter. And the feds hire more entry-level people with the intent of promoting than almost any corporation I know, so if you can stomach going in at like GS7 for a while to learn some basics, but on a 7-9-11 promotion ladder, then you can do some lateral expansion of your skills with the assurance that putting in the time will lead to increase in pay.
I don't need to do any sort of deep shadow work to know what kind of job I want. Whenever I hear about someone with a post-secondary teaching job, I get a little sad inside, or someone who does educational development. Or analysis. Or user design. Or law. Or medicine. They get to help people! And go to conferences and give presentations!
If you do decide to retool, let me gently say that it doesn't sound like you actually do know what kind of job you want. You've listed like eight different careers here with wildly varying characteristics and which often don't even fit the desirable qualities you mention. (I'm a lawyer. I help people now, but rarely directly. And in the past, I have helped large corporations, ultrawealthy hedge funds, and vultures.) Before you jump, get a book or two to do a little more focused introspection about what you really want, and maybe come back here for a reality check about whether xyz is likely to allow you to do pqr.
posted by praemunire at 9:34 AM on February 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
I also know that I'm way too stupid and old to ever score one of these non-support jobs...
This statement is so incredibly not true that I'm convinced the rest of your base premise is flawed as well. I am ABSOLUTELY 100% POSITIVE that you are qualified for more than just nightmare jobs* and the key to summoning up the enthusiasm to get hired is to stop fighting yourself and start looking for work that actually plays to your strengths.
Your question felt very familiar so I took a peek at your history and remember several of your older questions. First off, on top of your extensive writing/editing experience (which is how you should be framing it, rather than military work**), you have experience and an interest in teaching (volunteer counts!) as well ESL credentials. Those are qualifications! I can think of several different directions*** you could try that would all be far more up your alley and easier to get excited about. I imagine, however, that they will all sound impossible and fantastical to you until you convince yourself that you're capable of it.
That brings us to item #2, have you been able to follow up with an ADHD evaluation? I was diagnosed somewhat later in life and it made a HUGE difference in getting me to a point where I felt like I wasn't just treading water. Talk therapy helped a little at the start, but medication helped a LOT. I do better with the crappy but necessary parts of work/existence so I don't feel like a failure all the time. That frees up the brain capacity to actually work on changing the things that aren't working. It also helped me accept how things have turned out in the past and be more proactive and realistic about what I actually need/want in the future.
I think once you have a more realistic sense of your own abilities and what your goals are, it will be easier to direct your search towards things that you're naturally more excited about.
* Based purely on reading what and how you've posted on Metafilter
** This would make a great talking point for any sort of 'why do you want this job' or 'tell me why about your career pivot' sort of interview questions: "I'm tired of reading about detention centers all day".
*** Probably better for a separate Ask but - Online or in-person tutoring? Paid ESL teaching?
Writing coach? Something that combines technical writing and product training? More general admin work instead of day in day out editing? Same work in a different structure/environment? Look into other teaching credentials? Temp agency? Starbucks for insurance while you freelance other stuff? Smaller orgs, esp non-profits, where ADHD brain can actually be an asset?
posted by yeahlikethat at 10:32 AM on February 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
This statement is so incredibly not true that I'm convinced the rest of your base premise is flawed as well. I am ABSOLUTELY 100% POSITIVE that you are qualified for more than just nightmare jobs* and the key to summoning up the enthusiasm to get hired is to stop fighting yourself and start looking for work that actually plays to your strengths.
Your question felt very familiar so I took a peek at your history and remember several of your older questions. First off, on top of your extensive writing/editing experience (which is how you should be framing it, rather than military work**), you have experience and an interest in teaching (volunteer counts!) as well ESL credentials. Those are qualifications! I can think of several different directions*** you could try that would all be far more up your alley and easier to get excited about. I imagine, however, that they will all sound impossible and fantastical to you until you convince yourself that you're capable of it.
That brings us to item #2, have you been able to follow up with an ADHD evaluation? I was diagnosed somewhat later in life and it made a HUGE difference in getting me to a point where I felt like I wasn't just treading water. Talk therapy helped a little at the start, but medication helped a LOT. I do better with the crappy but necessary parts of work/existence so I don't feel like a failure all the time. That frees up the brain capacity to actually work on changing the things that aren't working. It also helped me accept how things have turned out in the past and be more proactive and realistic about what I actually need/want in the future.
I think once you have a more realistic sense of your own abilities and what your goals are, it will be easier to direct your search towards things that you're naturally more excited about.
* Based purely on reading what and how you've posted on Metafilter
** This would make a great talking point for any sort of 'why do you want this job' or 'tell me why about your career pivot' sort of interview questions: "I'm tired of reading about detention centers all day".
*** Probably better for a separate Ask but - Online or in-person tutoring? Paid ESL teaching?
Writing coach? Something that combines technical writing and product training? More general admin work instead of day in day out editing? Same work in a different structure/environment? Look into other teaching credentials? Temp agency? Starbucks for insurance while you freelance other stuff? Smaller orgs, esp non-profits, where ADHD brain can actually be an asset?
posted by yeahlikethat at 10:32 AM on February 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
The federal job application is a nightmare and you have to learn how to game the USAJOBS system so your application makes it through the initial screening process. There are online resources and seminars on how to do this. Step 1: use the CV builder in USAJOBS so it matches their preferred format. You can download it and edit as needed and upload your new version. Put key terms from the job posting in your CV and cover letter. Look up the 'competencies' for the agency, more buzzwords to use! In the questionnaire section (if there is one), rate yourself the highest option for every single question. Otherwise you'll never make it past the screening phase.
Anyhow, you seem like a good writer and a competent person with a good sense of humor and I'm sure your coworkers like working with you, even if the job itself isn't enjoyable. To answer your question, I think you just have to fake a minimum of enthusiasm during the job interviews and highlight your competence and experience. Try to find the least bad option that at least has some draws for you even if the actual work is tedious- better salary, generous annual leave, remote work option, nice coworkers you get along with, etc. Best of luck!
posted by emd3737 at 12:10 PM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Anyhow, you seem like a good writer and a competent person with a good sense of humor and I'm sure your coworkers like working with you, even if the job itself isn't enjoyable. To answer your question, I think you just have to fake a minimum of enthusiasm during the job interviews and highlight your competence and experience. Try to find the least bad option that at least has some draws for you even if the actual work is tedious- better salary, generous annual leave, remote work option, nice coworkers you get along with, etc. Best of luck!
posted by emd3737 at 12:10 PM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Whenever I hear about someone with a post-secondary teaching job, I get a little sad inside, or someone who does educational development. Or analysis. Or user design. Or law. Or medicine. They get to help people! And go to conferences and give presentations! And they don't have vivid fantasies about stabbing whoever tells them "actually, you added an extra space after that period"! Because somebody else who actually cares and is good at using that part of their brain does that part of the job!
Just to set reasonable expectations, most post-secondary education in the US is conducted by adjuncts who do not make a living wage and have absolutely no job stability and rarely any benefits. I have a PhD and intentionally did not go into teaching because I knew adjuncts selling their plasma to stay afloat. I also have going to presentations and giving conferences, and reviewer #2 does sometimes give me shit about whether I should hyphenate a word, etc. A friend used to have a cool instructional design job that she hated for years partly because of all the profs treating her like a go-fer whose job is to edit their online courses.
I do think that you can do better by trying to find a job editing different content. It is also true that a lot of jobs are bullshit, the grass is not necessarily greener, etc.
posted by momus_window at 12:12 PM on February 14, 2023
Just to set reasonable expectations, most post-secondary education in the US is conducted by adjuncts who do not make a living wage and have absolutely no job stability and rarely any benefits. I have a PhD and intentionally did not go into teaching because I knew adjuncts selling their plasma to stay afloat. I also have going to presentations and giving conferences, and reviewer #2 does sometimes give me shit about whether I should hyphenate a word, etc. A friend used to have a cool instructional design job that she hated for years partly because of all the profs treating her like a go-fer whose job is to edit their online courses.
I do think that you can do better by trying to find a job editing different content. It is also true that a lot of jobs are bullshit, the grass is not necessarily greener, etc.
posted by momus_window at 12:12 PM on February 14, 2023
Unless someone else wrote this post for you, you already have the skills to do lots of jobs that suck less than the jobs you're thinking of applying for. I feel really sad for you that you've already decided, with potentially decades of useful working life ahead of you, that this is the best you're ever going to get, because I don't think it's accurate, and because there are lots of people you could help who now will never get to meet you.
Whatever you're doing now sounds like something like copy editing or document review. That's paralegal work, and you can get into that with basically no experience. A law firm will pay for your training for any certifications you need. If you're ex military or have military experience, you can get a job helping service members or veterans apply for benefits, fill out forms, appeal disability determinations, etc. If you know anything about immigration, there are places desperate to hire people with your skill set.
I promise you, if you update to tell us more about what you actually do, someone will have awesome ideas of new kinds of jobs to look at. It also wouldn't shock me if someone actually has a job opening with their employer that would be a good fit for you. I work in public interest law (I'm an attorney, but not all my coworkers are), and I can think of jobs we've hired for this year that you might have been a good candidate for. Take a leap of faith, and see if you can't aim a little higher than dreading the next several decades of your life.
posted by decathecting at 4:08 PM on February 21, 2023
Whatever you're doing now sounds like something like copy editing or document review. That's paralegal work, and you can get into that with basically no experience. A law firm will pay for your training for any certifications you need. If you're ex military or have military experience, you can get a job helping service members or veterans apply for benefits, fill out forms, appeal disability determinations, etc. If you know anything about immigration, there are places desperate to hire people with your skill set.
I promise you, if you update to tell us more about what you actually do, someone will have awesome ideas of new kinds of jobs to look at. It also wouldn't shock me if someone actually has a job opening with their employer that would be a good fit for you. I work in public interest law (I'm an attorney, but not all my coworkers are), and I can think of jobs we've hired for this year that you might have been a good candidate for. Take a leap of faith, and see if you can't aim a little higher than dreading the next several decades of your life.
posted by decathecting at 4:08 PM on February 21, 2023
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Secondly, stop beating yourself up -- none of the reasons you list for why you can't get the good job you want are real things that exist outside of the narrative you've sold yourself. Get out of your head, and get out there. Will you fail? Absolutely. Will you fail forever? Absolutely not.
posted by so fucking future at 8:50 PM on February 12, 2023 [16 favorites]